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The Future for the PRO14 - Part 4 - A Global Club Championship

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Post by Pot Hale Thu 10 Aug 2017, 11:44 am

First topic message reminder :

Following the Union Balldance of the last 12 months, another union has finally joined the party - SARU. The PRO12 league is gone with Martin Anayi's announcement of a global club championship involving conferences of teams from five unions with the potential for more to be included.

At first glance, it looks like a smart play - albeit somewhat fortuitous with SARU having to shed two teams from the Super Rugby competition. It brings together a lot more viewers that are attractive to media companies and business sponsors. Celtic Rugby Ltd still owns the competition with just its three founding shareholders - IRFU, SRU and WRU. No club or franchise owners involved. FIR failed to meet the required performance that would have made them shareholders at the beginning of July. And SARU weren't persuasive enough to get their seat at the table just yet. Rumours of a new company being set up failed to materialise. But they still signed up to a six-year agreement with £6m in funding each year.

It's not clear if this money is coming from SARU or directly from SuperSport, their broadcast partner. It is SARU who have signed the agreement to provide two teams so presumably the financial buck stops with them. It's more likely the £6m is a participation fee paid by SARU, similar to what FIR was charged when it joined in 2010. Media reports have said that the monies will be split equally amongst the 12 teams with travel and logistics costs for SA trips met centrally by Celtic Rugby Ltd since these will vary for clubs depending on whether they play one or both teams in SA.

Next on Anayi's agenda is the negotiation of a new media deal involving PPV and terrestrial TV, and online platforms. SuperSport may have already got their slice - all 20-22 home games involving Cheetahs and Kings plus some/all of the finals stages. Or perhaps not. Sky and possibly other PPV broadcasters such as Eir Sport may be willing to bid more to be the primary broadcaster for a higher profile, expanded Championship. But Anayi will want to keep a slice for terrestrial TV since they have a much better viewership reach. The current deal is for four years. Would a six-year deal be a better strategic move to guarantee increased revenues for a longer period? It would link in with the duration of the SARU agreement. And it would outlast the current participation agreement for the European Cup run by EPCR.

Further expansion is obviously the other key consideration with possibly other teams from SA, US and Europe coming on board. The danger is that Celtic Rugby goes too far and repeats the mistakes of Super Rugby. Better to build slowly to see if they will still come.

The coming season will be a fascinating one to see how the new structure and Championship beds in. Will attendances increase? Will there be more surprise results and potentially another new team to lift the cup next May?

Roll on 1 September.



Further info on PRO14 can be found here:
http://www.pro14rugby.org/2017/08/01/guinness-pro14-championship-qa/
Pot Hale
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Post by SecretFly Tue 16 Jan 2018, 2:28 pm

RugbyFan100 wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:
geoff999rugby wrote:

Not possible because we don't have enough Scottish or Italians refs
As stated Welsh refs ref Welsh matches as much as Irish refs ref Irish matches.
You really do go to desperate lengths to come up with this stuff.

The point about having not enough referees is untrue. There are enough South African and Scottish officials but the Pro14 are saving money by not flying them and swapping for fixtures. So you get South African referees refereeing in South Africa and a Scottish set officiating in Scotland. It's not that there aren't enough. It's that the league is such a logistical nightmare that it's too expensive to co-ordinate.

Then why do you always get Welsh refs in Ireland?


Don't understand the relevance of this question sorry.

Any official refereeing a team from the same nation as his or her refereeing pathway is just plain wrong, unless both teams are of that same nation. It's incredible that in 2018 there are people still out there that don't feel this is important.

It - is - a - club/Provinical/Regional competition.... it is not Wales v Ireland or Scotland v South Africa. Wrong channel.

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Post by RugbyFan100 Tue 16 Jan 2018, 2:29 pm

marty2086 wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:
marty2086 wrote:

So there are no English on the Pro 14 board?


I've never claimed such a thing. What amuses me is that they are referred to as 'The English'.

Why? It was you who referred to the as the English so you amuse yourself with your references?

Because you made it look like the English RFU voted for Ulster's ground to be the final venue Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy

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Post by RugbyFan100 Tue 16 Jan 2018, 2:30 pm

SecretFly wrote:

It - is - a - club/Provinical/Regional competition.... it is not Wales v Ireland or Scotland v South Africa.  Wrong channel.

So why don't Wayne Barnes / Greg Garner etc referee English teams in European competitions?

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Post by geoff999rugby Tue 16 Jan 2018, 2:31 pm

marty2086 wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:
geoff999rugby wrote:

Not possible because we don't have enough Scottish or Italians refs
As stated Welsh refs ref Welsh matches as much as Irish refs ref Irish matches.
You really do go to desperate lengths to come up with this stuff.

The point about having not enough referees is untrue. There are enough South African and Scottish officials but the Pro14 are saving money by not flying them and swapping for fixtures. So you get South African referees refereeing in South Africa and a Scottish set officiating in Scotland. It's not that there aren't enough. It's that the league is such a logistical nightmare that it's too expensive to co-ordinate.

Then why do you always get Welsh refs in Ireland?


that's because it is true

The current list of elite referees in the Pro14 is made up as follows:
5 Welsh
4 Irish
2 South African
1 Italian
1 Scottish

And therein lies the problem

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Post by No 7&1/2 Tue 16 Jan 2018, 2:32 pm

Does nigel owens ref leinster etc in European Comps?


Last edited by No 7&1/2 on Tue 16 Jan 2018, 2:33 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by marty2086 Tue 16 Jan 2018, 2:32 pm

RugbyFan100 wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:
marty2086 wrote:

So there are no English on the Pro 14 board?


I've never claimed such a thing. What amuses me is that they are referred to as 'The English'.

Why? It was you who referred to the as the English so you amuse yourself with your references?

Because you made it look like the English RFU voted for Ulster's ground to be the final venue Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy

Except I didn't but you've still not explained how when a group of people of differing nationalities make a decision it's an Irish conspiracy

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Post by marty2086 Tue 16 Jan 2018, 2:34 pm

geoff999rugby wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:
geoff999rugby wrote:

Not possible because we don't have enough Scottish or Italians refs
As stated Welsh refs ref Welsh matches as much as Irish refs ref Irish matches.
You really do go to desperate lengths to come up with this stuff.

The point about having not enough referees is untrue. There are enough South African and Scottish officials but the Pro14 are saving money by not flying them and swapping for fixtures. So you get South African referees refereeing in South Africa and a Scottish set officiating in Scotland. It's not that there aren't enough. It's that the league is such a logistical nightmare that it's too expensive to co-ordinate.

Then why do you always get Welsh refs in Ireland?


that's because it is true

The current list of elite referees in the Pro14 is made up as follows:
5 Welsh
4 Irish
2 South African
1 Italian
1 Scottish

And therein lies the problem

I know what the problem is but this eejit makes a claim, gets proven wrong then pivots to something else

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Post by LordDowlais Tue 16 Jan 2018, 2:37 pm

I am getting a little bored of all this, also, it is quite clear that this member is not Phil. Trust me, there are a lot of people in Wales who think along these lines, and there have been far too many circumstances within the Pro14/12 over the years that lead to people thinking along these lines.

It is one of the reason why people in Wales would rather watch the Welsh Prem.

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Post by SecretFly Tue 16 Jan 2018, 2:43 pm

RugbyFan100 wrote:
SecretFly wrote:

It - is - a - club/Provinical/Regional competition.... it is not Wales v Ireland or Scotland v South Africa.  Wrong channel.

So why don't Wayne Barnes / Greg Garner etc referee English teams in European competitions?

They're too busy reffing Irish or French sides??

It's you that's saying there SHOULD be bias...because it's you that is saying the Pro14 is a Nations competition rather than simply a 'Club' one. Fine - I agree in a way. I'd much prefer Ulster to win the European Champions Cup than Scarlets. Bias is there for me... but explain why I'd never worry about bias with Nigel Owens? The risk is in your own head because you simply don't want anything positive to say about Pro14. But if there was an Anglo Welsh League............... who would ref the Scarlets v Saracens game?


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Post by carpet baboon Tue 16 Jan 2018, 2:43 pm

LordDowlais wrote:I am getting a little bored of all this, also, it is quite clear that this member is not Phil. Trust me, there are a lot of people in Wales who think along these lines, and there have been far too many circumstances within the Pro14/12 over the years that lead to people thinking along these lines.

It is one of the reason why people in Wales would rather watch the Welsh Prem.

Can you list all these circumstances?
As all I see is poor performance by Welsh teams and the fans blaming the Irish rather than the players/coach/region/wru and a crying that the English want you but us meanies won't let you go.

So please do supply this long list I can't wait to see this great conspiracy.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Tue 16 Jan 2018, 2:44 pm

Whoever the prl decided.

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Post by RugbyFan100 Tue 16 Jan 2018, 2:45 pm

carpet baboon wrote:
As all I see is poor performance by Welsh teams and the fans blaming the Irish rather than the players/coach/region/wru

.

My team won the pro12 league last season by the way.

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Post by marty2086 Tue 16 Jan 2018, 2:46 pm

carpet baboon wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:I am getting a little bored of all this, also, it is quite clear that this member is not Phil. Trust me, there are a lot of people in Wales who think along these lines, and there have been far too many circumstances within the Pro14/12 over the years that lead to people thinking along these lines.

It is one of the reason why people in Wales would rather watch the Welsh Prem.

Can you list all these circumstances?
As all I see is poor performance by Welsh teams and the fans blaming the Irish rather than the players/coach/region/wru and a crying that the English want you but us meanies won't let you go.

So please do supply this long list I can't wait to see this great conspiracy.

Have the Welsh not been adverse to the league from the early days because of the shambles of setting up of the regions?

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Post by marty2086 Tue 16 Jan 2018, 2:46 pm

RugbyFan100 wrote:
carpet baboon wrote:
As all I see is poor performance by Welsh teams and the fans blaming the Irish rather than the players/coach/region/wru

.

My team won the pro12 league last season by the way.

Cardiff won the Pro12?

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Post by carpet baboon Tue 16 Jan 2018, 2:47 pm

RugbyFan100 wrote:
carpet baboon wrote:
As all I see is poor performance by Welsh teams and the fans blaming the Irish rather than the players/coach/region/wru

.

My team won the pro12 league last season by the way.

Yet the Irish are still out to get you? We supplied you with the best second row in the league you should be thanking us

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Post by SecretFly Tue 16 Jan 2018, 2:48 pm

RugbyFan100 wrote:
carpet baboon wrote:
As all I see is poor performance by Welsh teams and the fans blaming the Irish rather than the players/coach/region/wru

.

My team won the pro12 league last season by the way.

Did you celebrate? I hope you did. Or did you just hunch your shoulders and just grunt: "Toothless competition. Tainted structures. Not enough money. Terrible result."?

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Post by RugbyFan100 Tue 16 Jan 2018, 2:48 pm

carpet baboon wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:
carpet baboon wrote:
As all I see is poor performance by Welsh teams and the fans blaming the Irish rather than the players/coach/region/wru

.

My team won the pro12 league last season by the way.

Yet the Irish are still out to get you? We supplied you with the best second row in the league you should be thanking us

He was 2 weeks away fro quitting rugby. You should be thanking us.

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Post by marty2086 Tue 16 Jan 2018, 2:49 pm

SecretFly wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:
carpet baboon wrote:
As all I see is poor performance by Welsh teams and the fans blaming the Irish rather than the players/coach/region/wru

.

My team won the pro12 league last season by the way.

Did you celebrate?  I hope you did.  Or did you just hunch your shoulders and just grunt: "Toothless competition.  Tainted structures.  Not enough money.  Terrible result."?

I wonder if he blamed the Irish for one of Scarlets star players being inextricably allowed to play after dumping a player on his head

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Post by carpet baboon Tue 16 Jan 2018, 2:49 pm

marty2086 wrote:
carpet baboon wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:I am getting a little bored of all this, also, it is quite clear that this member is not Phil. Trust me, there are a lot of people in Wales who think along these lines, and there have been far too many circumstances within the Pro14/12 over the years that lead to people thinking along these lines.

It is one of the reason why people in Wales would rather watch the Welsh Prem.

Can you list all these circumstances?
As all I see is poor performance by Welsh teams and the fans blaming the Irish rather than the players/coach/region/wru and a crying that the English want you but us meanies won't let you go.

So please do supply this long list I can't wait to see this great conspiracy.

Have the Welsh not been adverse to the league from the early days because of the shambles of setting up of the regions?

Yes but it was the IRFU deep state within the WRU that caused the delay, so it's still our fault

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Post by RugbyFan100 Tue 16 Jan 2018, 2:50 pm

SecretFly wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:
carpet baboon wrote:
As all I see is poor performance by Welsh teams and the fans blaming the Irish rather than the players/coach/region/wru

.

My team won the pro12 league last season by the way.

Did you celebrate?  I hope you did.  Or did you just hunch your shoulders and just grunt: "Toothless competition.  Tainted structures.  Not enough money.  Terrible result."?

I always celebrate my team winning, whether it be the hugely brilliant European Champions Cup, or the pretty dire Pro14. To not lend my team my support would be silly.

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Post by carpet baboon Tue 16 Jan 2018, 2:51 pm

RugbyFan100 wrote:
carpet baboon wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:
carpet baboon wrote:
As all I see is poor performance by Welsh teams and the fans blaming the Irish rather than the players/coach/region/wru

.

My team won the pro12 league last season by the way.

Yet the Irish are still out to get you? We supplied you with the best second row in the league you should be thanking us

He was 2 weeks away fro quitting rugby. You should be thanking us.

Will gladly thank you. Him with Ryan Henderson and Treadwell are gonna be some very good international pairings

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Post by marty2086 Tue 16 Jan 2018, 2:51 pm

carpet baboon wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
carpet baboon wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:I am getting a little bored of all this, also, it is quite clear that this member is not Phil. Trust me, there are a lot of people in Wales who think along these lines, and there have been far too many circumstances within the Pro14/12 over the years that lead to people thinking along these lines.

It is one of the reason why people in Wales would rather watch the Welsh Prem.

Can you list all these circumstances?
As all I see is poor performance by Welsh teams and the fans blaming the Irish rather than the players/coach/region/wru and a crying that the English want you but us meanies won't let you go.

So please do supply this long list I can't wait to see this great conspiracy.

Have the Welsh not been adverse to the league from the early days because of the shambles of setting up of the regions?

Yes but it was the IRFU deep state within the WRU that caused the delay, so it's still our fault

To be fair to him, I blame the IRFU for Ulsters failure so I can see where hes coming from

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Post by RugbyFan100 Tue 16 Jan 2018, 2:51 pm

marty2086 wrote:

I wonder if he blamed the Irish for one of Scarlets star players being inextricably allowed to play after dumping a player on his head

He should have been banned for a few weeks. Just like this chap 2 weeks ago:

The Future for the PRO14 - Part 4 - A Global Club Championship - Page 13 UF2I1QL

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Post by SecretFly Tue 16 Jan 2018, 2:52 pm

RugbyFan100 wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:
carpet baboon wrote:
As all I see is poor performance by Welsh teams and the fans blaming the Irish rather than the players/coach/region/wru

.

My team won the pro12 league last season by the way.

Did you celebrate?  I hope you did.  Or did you just hunch your shoulders and just grunt: "Toothless competition.  Tainted structures.  Not enough money.  Terrible result."?

I always celebrate my team winning, whether it be the hugely brilliant European Champions Cup, or the pretty dire Pro14. To not lend my team my support would be silly.

It would be tragic not silly Wink

Anyway, glad you celebrated. There are some pretty big hard hitters in that League...Irish, Welsh and Scottish. It's something to celebrate.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Tue 16 Jan 2018, 2:53 pm

But you view your teams success as tainted?

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Post by LordDowlais Tue 16 Jan 2018, 2:53 pm

I was at a game where Dudley Phillips was refereeing, Ospreys and Munster, he was so one sided, that fans were getting up and leaving, trust me it happened. I also remember a game between Ospreys and Leinster where John Lacey kept ignoring the TMO and was letting Leinster do as they pleased. One point, the TMO said that Ben Teo fore arm smashed Sam Davies, Sam Davies went off and missed the next few weeks because of a HIA, yet nothing was done. Also, do not get me started with Marshal Kilgore at the Kingspan/Ravenhill.

Look it might just be a matter of coincidence, and it is probably because they are crap refs, but it was happening.

There was also a time when the Scarlets fans were waiting for the players to get of the team coach, and when Munster team got off, the ref got off with them, sparking claims of the Irish sides bringing their own refs with them.

I remember Dai young spitting feathers after a Leinster and Cardiff game, where the Irish ref gifted Leinster the game. There are loads of incidents.

You have this stupid criteria for hosting a final, but when the WRU finally put a bid in, they are not chosen because of "other" circumstances. There is just too many instances that would start making even them most laid back person start to question the credentials of our league.


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Post by marty2086 Tue 16 Jan 2018, 2:54 pm

marty2086 wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:
marty2086 wrote:

So there are no English on the Pro 14 board?


I've never claimed such a thing. What amuses me is that they are referred to as 'The English'.

Why? It was you who referred to the as the English so you amuse yourself with your references?

Because you made it look like the English RFU voted for Ulster's ground to be the final venue Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy

Except I didn't but you've still not explained how when a group of people of differing nationalities make a decision it's an Irish conspiracy

Well?

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Post by carpet baboon Tue 16 Jan 2018, 2:54 pm

marty2086 wrote:
carpet baboon wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
carpet baboon wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:I am getting a little bored of all this, also, it is quite clear that this member is not Phil. Trust me, there are a lot of people in Wales who think along these lines, and there have been far too many circumstances within the Pro14/12 over the years that lead to people thinking along these lines.

It is one of the reason why people in Wales would rather watch the Welsh Prem.

Can you list all these circumstances?
As all I see is poor performance by Welsh teams and the fans blaming the Irish rather than the players/coach/region/wru and a crying that the English want you but us meanies won't let you go.

So please do supply this long list I can't wait to see this great conspiracy.

Have the Welsh not been adverse to the league from the early days because of the shambles of setting up of the regions?

Yes but it was the IRFU deep state within the WRU that caused the delay, so it's still our fault

To be fair to him, I blame the IRFU for Ulsters failure so I can see where hes coming from

I blame Ulster then IRFU a close second

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Post by SecretFly Tue 16 Jan 2018, 3:00 pm

LordDowlais wrote:I was at a game where Dudley Phillips was refereeing, Ospreys and Munster, he was so one sided, that fans were getting up and leaving, trust me it happened. I also remember a game between Ospreys and Leinster where John Lacey kept ignoring the TMO and was letting Leinster do as they pleased. One point, the TMO said that Ben Teo fore arm smashed Sam Davies, Sam Davies went off and missed the next few weeks because of a HIA, yet nothing was done. Also, do not get me started with Marshal Kilgore at the Kingspan/Ravenhill.

Look it might just be a matter of coincidence, and it is probably because they are crap refs, but it was happening.

There was also a time when the Scarlets fans were waiting for the players to get of the team coach, and when Munster team got off, the ref got off with them, sparking claims of the Irish sides bringing their own refs with them.

I remember Dai young spitting feathers after a Leinster and Cardiff game, where the Irish ref gifted Leinster the game. There are loads of incidents.

You have this stupid criteria for hosting a final, but when the WRU finally put a bid in, they are not chosen because of "other" circumstances. There is just too many instances that would start making even them most laid back person start to question the credentials of our league.  


Right so logistically the whole Pro14 is crap.

Now let's all finish the funding story before going on to the part yis all seem to love (Irish refs and what they might do to you to make you mad).

The funding and the networks.  How do you think it should have panned out, Lord?  And secondly, if you agree with the newish guy that it's all a scam to kiss ass to the Irish again...then can I ask you your opinion on the silly silence of the Welsh negotiating contingent... again... in getting a deal more to their liking?  Why all the meekness from the Scots and Welsh IF you happen to agree that the TV rights have shafted the Welsh yet...again?


Last edited by SecretFly on Tue 16 Jan 2018, 3:01 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by No 7&1/2 Tue 16 Jan 2018, 3:00 pm

I've seen loads of fans consistently slag off their refs from a number of leagues.....Could it be that some people just like to blame officials rather than their own team?

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Post by marty2086 Tue 16 Jan 2018, 3:02 pm

LordDowlais wrote:I was at a game where Dudley Phillips was refereeing, Ospreys and Munster, he was so one sided, that fans were getting up and leaving, trust me it happened. I also remember a game between Ospreys and Leinster where John Lacey kept ignoring the TMO and was letting Leinster do as they pleased. One point, the TMO said that Ben Teo fore arm smashed Sam Davies, Sam Davies went off and missed the next few weeks because of a HIA, yet nothing was done. Also, do not get me started with Marshal Kilgore at the Kingspan/Ravenhill.

Look it might just be a matter of coincidence, and it is probably because they are crap refs, but it was happening.

There was also a time when the Scarlets fans were waiting for the players to get of the team coach, and when Munster team got off, the ref got off with them, sparking claims of the Irish sides bringing their own refs with them.

I remember Dai young spitting feathers after a Leinster and Cardiff game, where the Irish ref gifted Leinster the game. There are loads of incidents.

You have this stupid criteria for hosting a final, but when the WRU finally put a bid in, they are not chosen because of "other" circumstances. There is just too many instances that would start making even them most laid back person start to question the credentials of our league.  


I seen fans ready to kill Wayne Barnes on Saturday but that's the Pro14 for you...no wait that's a different competition

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Post by RugbyFan100 Tue 16 Jan 2018, 3:02 pm

marty2086 wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:
marty2086 wrote:

So there are no English on the Pro 14 board?


I've never claimed such a thing. What amuses me is that they are referred to as 'The English'.

Why? It was you who referred to the as the English so you amuse yourself with your references?

Because you made it look like the English RFU voted for Ulster's ground to be the final venue Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy

Except I didn't but you've still not explained how when a group of people of differing nationalities make a decision it's an Irish conspiracy

Well?

Check my posts. I've answered everything. Everything is convenient. There's always an excuse........"nobody else put in a bid", "Sky are out of the running", "there is a lack of scottish referees", "It's due to BBC NI", "there are more chimney stacks in England and France", "Impartiality is not an issue".

Always the same

Always convenient.

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Post by marty2086 Tue 16 Jan 2018, 3:04 pm

RugbyFan100 wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:
marty2086 wrote:

So there are no English on the Pro 14 board?


I've never claimed such a thing. What amuses me is that they are referred to as 'The English'.

Why? It was you who referred to the as the English so you amuse yourself with your references?

Because you made it look like the English RFU voted for Ulster's ground to be the final venue Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy

Except I didn't but you've still not explained how when a group of people of differing nationalities make a decision it's an Irish conspiracy

Well?

Check my posts. I've answered everything. Everything is convenient. There's always an excuse........"nobody else put in a  bid", "Sky are out of the running", "there is  a lack of scottish referees", "It's due to BBC NI", "there are more chimney stacks in England and France", "Impartiality is not an issue".

Always the same

Always convenient.

That doesn't explain why the Italians, Welsh, Scottish and English on the board would favour the Irish...please you have yet to explain it


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Post by SecretFly Tue 16 Jan 2018, 3:04 pm

RugbyFan100 wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:
marty2086 wrote:

So there are no English on the Pro 14 board?


I've never claimed such a thing. What amuses me is that they are referred to as 'The English'.

Why? It was you who referred to the as the English so you amuse yourself with your references?

Because you made it look like the English RFU voted for Ulster's ground to be the final venue Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy

Except I didn't but you've still not explained how when a group of people of differing nationalities make a decision it's an Irish conspiracy

Well?

Check my posts. I've answered everything. Everything is convenient. There's always an excuse........"nobody else put in a  bid", "Sky are out of the running", "there is  a lack of scottish referees", "It's due to BBC NI", "there are more chimney stacks in England and France", "Impartiality is not an issue".

Always the same

Always convenient.

??

It's much, much, much, much more convenient to use a lot less print and just say "Blame the Irish... they did it".


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Post by No 7&1/2 Tue 16 Jan 2018, 3:06 pm

So why don't the Welsh Scottish etc get a say in what tv bidding rights to put out there and which refs to hire and train?

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Post by SecretFly Tue 16 Jan 2018, 3:08 pm

I'm kinda mad that the Powerful Mafiosi Irish contingent in Pro14 allowed the Welsh side to win the competition last year...if I'm being honest. I thought all the refs were paid up fully to play ball? Somebody needs a lonely car drive to a quiet place in the country... in the boot. Someone slipped up on the brown envelope detail



That's another load of stuff I distinctly remember myself saying a few years ago on the very same topic..... it's uncanny how history is repeating itself on these pages with the new guy doing the conducting.

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Post by RugbyFan100 Tue 16 Jan 2018, 3:11 pm

LordDowlais wrote:I was at a game where Dudley Phillips was refereeing, Ospreys and Munster, he was so one sided, that fans were getting up and leaving, trust me it happened. I also remember a game between Ospreys and Leinster where John Lacey kept ignoring the TMO and was letting Leinster do as they pleased. One point, the TMO said that Ben Teo fore arm smashed Sam Davies, Sam Davies went off and missed the next few weeks because of a HIA, yet nothing was done. Also, do not get me started with Marshal Kilgore at the Kingspan/Ravenhill.

Look it might just be a matter of coincidence, and it is probably because they are crap refs, but it was happening.

There was also a time when the Scarlets fans were waiting for the players to get of the team coach, and when Munster team got off, the ref got off with them, sparking claims of the Irish sides bringing their own refs with them.

I remember Dai young spitting feathers after a Leinster and Cardiff game, where the Irish ref gifted Leinster the game. There are loads of incidents.

You have this stupid criteria for hosting a final, but when the WRU finally put a bid in, they are not chosen because of "other" circumstances. There is just too many instances that would start making even them most laid back person start to question the credentials of our league.  


Did you see Ulster v Scarlets earlier this season? It was on BBC Wales and the Scarlets got a penalty. Martin Williams said in commentary "I tell you what, they're lucky they got that penalty out here, with Irish officials"

What could he possibly have meant by that I wonder?

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Post by RugbyFan100 Tue 16 Jan 2018, 3:12 pm

SecretFly wrote:I'm kinda mad that the Powerful Mafiosi Irish contingent in Pro14 allowed the Welsh side to win the competition last year...if I'm being honest.  I thought all the refs were paid up fully to play ball?  

Honesty, integrity and soul in it's purest form can't be hindered.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Tue 16 Jan 2018, 3:13 pm

He's an awful commentator as he shows bias. Did you hear him at the weekend. Embarrassing as greenwood when he first started and.before he was trained up.

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Post by RugbyFan100 Tue 16 Jan 2018, 3:14 pm

marty2086 wrote:

That doesn't explain why the Italians, Welsh, Scottish and English on the board would favour the Irish...please you have yet to explain it


The majority of Unions stick together, and would be more than happy to vote against independently run organisations.

After all, we know that the pro14 and Martin Anayi don't want the 4 welsh regions in the competition.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Tue 16 Jan 2018, 3:17 pm

So not an irish biased league at all but one where each of the organisations are collaboratively working together with compromise.

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Post by LordDowlais Tue 16 Jan 2018, 3:17 pm

SecretFly wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:I was at a game where Dudley Phillips was refereeing, Ospreys and Munster, he was so one sided, that fans were getting up and leaving, trust me it happened. I also remember a game between Ospreys and Leinster where John Lacey kept ignoring the TMO and was letting Leinster do as they pleased. One point, the TMO said that Ben Teo fore arm smashed Sam Davies, Sam Davies went off and missed the next few weeks because of a HIA, yet nothing was done. Also, do not get me started with Marshal Kilgore at the Kingspan/Ravenhill.

Look it might just be a matter of coincidence, and it is probably because they are crap refs, but it was happening.

There was also a time when the Scarlets fans were waiting for the players to get of the team coach, and when Munster team got off, the ref got off with them, sparking claims of the Irish sides bringing their own refs with them.

I remember Dai young spitting feathers after a Leinster and Cardiff game, where the Irish ref gifted Leinster the game. There are loads of incidents.

You have this stupid criteria for hosting a final, but when the WRU finally put a bid in, they are not chosen because of "other" circumstances. There is just too many instances that would start making even them most laid back person start to question the credentials of our league.  


Right so logistically the whole Pro14 is crap.

Now let's all finish the funding story before going on to the part yis all seem to love (Irish refs and what they might do to you to make you mad).

The funding and the networks.  How do you think it should have panned out, Lord?  And secondly, if you agree with the newish guy that it's all a scam to kiss ass to the Irish again...then can I ask you your opinion on the silly silence of the Welsh negotiating contingent... again... in getting a deal more to their liking?  Why all the meekness from the Scots and Welsh IF you happen to agree that the TV rights have shafted the Welsh yet...again?

Hi SF.

Logistically the Pro14 is a nightmare. But I do not want to get into that.

As for the refereeing situation, I have always said on here that I could not give two hoots what nationality they are, but what I would like to see is a group of elite referees employed by the league. They could have a head ref so to speak, Nigel Owens if you like, he could then assess the refs from each country and put forward any he feels are ready for elite training by the league. They could be paid by the league, and each union who submits teams into the league can be charged by a form of league/ref fees. These referees can then all meet together once a month or whatever and discuss how they should be going about their business, so then, we do not have an Irish ref reffing in an Irish style, or a Welsh ref reffing in a Welsh style, we have a group of elite Pro14 refs, reffing in a Pro14 style.

I don't know, perhaps I am asking too much, but what I do know is, the current situation we find ourselves in is not ideal. OK

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Post by SecretFly Tue 16 Jan 2018, 3:19 pm

RugbyFan100 wrote:
marty2086 wrote:

That doesn't explain why the Italians, Welsh, Scottish and English on the board would favour the Irish...please you have yet to explain it


The majority of Unions stick together, and would be more than happy to vote against independently run organisations.

After all, we know that the pro14 and Martin Anayi don't want the 4 welsh regions in the competition.

Oh stop the crap. The Regions have been telegraphing their distaste for the little bother competition for what seems like centuries..... that word 'convenient' again.

Blame everyone that the Big Brother competition is only a dream you cherish on cold bitter nights of brooding.

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Post by LeinsterFan4life Tue 16 Jan 2018, 3:20 pm

RugbyFan100 wrote:
geoff999rugby wrote:


Irish refs ref Irish matches in the same number as Welsh refs referee Welsh matches.
The problem is the other countries do not pull their weight in terms of referee numbers.
Ireland is under no obligation to change a system that works structurally.
No conspiracy

IRFU owns the 4 teams. IRFU employs the officials = conflict of interest.

Wouldn't happen in a competent sports competition.
Is super rugby a competent sports competition? Because the exact same thing happens there with the refs.

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Post by RugbyFan100 Tue 16 Jan 2018, 3:21 pm

SecretFly wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:
marty2086 wrote:

That doesn't explain why the Italians, Welsh, Scottish and English on the board would favour the Irish...please you have yet to explain it


The majority of Unions stick together, and would be more than happy to vote against independently run organisations.

After all, we know that the pro14 and Martin Anayi don't want the 4 welsh regions in the competition.

Oh stop the crap.  The Regions have been telegraphing their distaste for the little bother competition for what seems like centuries..... that word 'convenient' again.

Blame everyone that the Big Brother competition is only a dream you cherish on cold bitter nights of brooding.

Eh? It's completely true.

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Post by LordDowlais Tue 16 Jan 2018, 3:22 pm

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Is super rugby a competent sports competition? Because the exact same thing happens there with the refs.

And guess what ? They are always banging on about the same thing as well, but at the same time, they have enough refs from each union to make it all a bit fairer.

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Post by marty2086 Tue 16 Jan 2018, 3:22 pm

RugbyFan100 wrote:
marty2086 wrote:

That doesn't explain why the Italians, Welsh, Scottish and English on the board would favour the Irish...please you have yet to explain it


The majority of Unions stick together, and would be more than happy to vote against independently run organisations.

After all, we know that the pro14 and Martin Anayi don't want the 4 welsh regions in the competition.

Except the Regions are represented on the board so again you are just making stuff up to try and make your cockahop theories seem credibile

Why do they not want the Welsh regions in then?

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Post by marty2086 Tue 16 Jan 2018, 3:24 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:Is super rugby a competent sports competition? Because the exact same thing happens there with the refs.

And guess what ? They are always banging on about the same thing as well, but at the same time, they have enough refs from each union to make it all a bit fairer.

The English are always banging on about the quality of refereeing so whats the excuse there?

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Post by No 7&1/2 Tue 16 Jan 2018, 3:24 pm

Same as everywhere marty people like to blame the outside influence rather than their team.

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Post by LeinsterFan4life Tue 16 Jan 2018, 3:26 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:Is super rugby a competent sports competition? Because the exact same thing happens there with the refs.

And guess what ? They are always banging on about the same thing as well, but at the same time, they have enough refs from each union to make it all a bit fairer.
Are they? I don't see it as much. If there is enough refs than why do SA refs still ref games between a SA franchise and a foreign franchise etc.

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