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Andre Ward announces his retirement

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Post by 88Chris05 on Thu 21 Sep 2017, 4:06 pm

First topic message reminder :

So, Andre Ward claims he's retiring from boxing. Class me as sceptical on this one, but he says his days as a prize fighter are over.

If he keeps his word, what are everyone's overall feelings about Ward's career? Has he done enough to be considered a great? Or do his (relatively) small number of fights against elite opposition and less than easy-on-the-eye style disqualify him?

If indeed this is the end, then it's been a damn fine career, whatever the exact details.
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Post by Scottrf on Wed 18 Oct 2017, 2:31 pm

Thanks. Keep up the great analysis.

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Post by Herman Jaeger on Wed 18 Oct 2017, 2:37 pm

Funny guy

Why do Ward fans have a problem with some people thinking he ran from Beterbiev anyway?

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Post by LionsV2 on Wed 18 Oct 2017, 3:05 pm

He ran from a guy with no name or reputation, a guy with awful technique who is fundamentally nowhere near the level of Kovalev, you however wouldn't know that having never watched him.

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Post by Herman Jaeger on Wed 18 Oct 2017, 3:21 pm

Makes no defences of his super middleweight title makes no defences of his light heavyweight title, what is it with this guy Ward?

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Post by Scottrf on Wed 18 Oct 2017, 3:23 pm

Herman Jaeger wrote:Makes no defences of his super middleweight title makes no defences of his light heavyweight title, what is it with this guy Ward?

How did he lose his titles between the Kovalev fights? Or between Froch and Dawson?

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Post by Herman Jaeger on Wed 18 Oct 2017, 3:27 pm

Scottrf wrote:
Herman Jaeger wrote:Makes no defences of his super middleweight title makes no defences of his light heavyweight title, what is it with this guy Ward?

How did he lose his titles between the Kovalev fights? Or between Froch and Dawson?

Eh?

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Post by LionsV2 on Wed 18 Oct 2017, 3:27 pm

I don't want facts to get in the way of your ramblings but he made six defences at Super Middle and one at Light Heavy.

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Post by Herman Jaeger on Wed 18 Oct 2017, 3:32 pm

Undisputed?

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Post by Herman Jaeger on Wed 18 Oct 2017, 3:32 pm

Undisputed defences..

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Post by Scottrf on Wed 18 Oct 2017, 3:34 pm

Herman Jaeger wrote:Undisputed defences..

That's crap and you know it. You can't hold and defend 4 belts with 4 mandatories.

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Post by LionsV2 on Wed 18 Oct 2017, 3:35 pm

Changing the goalposts I see, there's been a handful of those made this century.

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Post by Herman Jaeger on Wed 18 Oct 2017, 3:37 pm

So no undisputed defences at super middleweight and didn’t unify at light heavyweight and he’s an all time great

Right...

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Post by Scottrf on Wed 18 Oct 2017, 3:37 pm

Did unify at LH.

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Post by Herman Jaeger on Wed 18 Oct 2017, 3:40 pm

Scottrf wrote:Did unify at LH.

Took Stevenson’s belt did he?

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Post by Scottrf on Wed 18 Oct 2017, 3:41 pm

Herman Jaeger wrote:
Scottrf wrote:Did unify at LH.

Took Stevenson’s belt did he?

Non-sequitur. He did unify.

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Post by LionsV2 on Wed 18 Oct 2017, 3:43 pm

Herman Jaeger wrote:So no undisputed defences at super middleweight and didn’t unify at light heavyweight and he’s an all time great

Right...

Only one boxer this century has defended an undisputed title.

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Post by Herman Jaeger on Wed 18 Oct 2017, 3:45 pm

So he was never undisputed champion at light heavyweight never THE man at the weight

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Post by Scottrf on Wed 18 Oct 2017, 3:46 pm

LionsV2 wrote:
Herman Jaeger wrote:So no undisputed defences at super middleweight and didn’t unify at light heavyweight and he’s an all time great

Right...

Only one boxer this century has defended an undisputed title.

Hopkins? Good quiz question.

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Post by LionsV2 on Wed 18 Oct 2017, 3:50 pm

It was indeed Hopkins, once against Eastman.

There we have it, only one all time great of the 21St century.

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Post by Herman Jaeger on Wed 18 Oct 2017, 3:54 pm

Hopkins has got way more depth and longevity than Ward

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Post by Scottrf on Wed 18 Oct 2017, 3:56 pm

Interesting. Trying to work out why Taylor didn't have the same. Must have been stripped. Pretty much shows why it's not a great metric.

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Post by Herman Jaeger on Wed 18 Oct 2017, 4:03 pm

Good metric or not Ward didn’t get all the belts at light heavyweight so was only the man at one weight and didn’t make any defences at 68 when he was the man bar a weight drained Dawson. Much easier getting to the top than staying there


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Post by LionsV2 on Wed 18 Oct 2017, 4:04 pm

He was stripped of the IBF title before the rematch.

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Post by Scottrf on Wed 18 Oct 2017, 4:05 pm

Herman Jaeger wrote:Good metric or not Ward didn’t get all the belts at light heavyweight so was only the man at one weight and didn’t make any defences at 68 when he was the man. Much easier getting to the top than staying there
But wait he didn't get all the belts at 168 so why was he the man there?

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Post by Herman Jaeger on Wed 18 Oct 2017, 4:08 pm

Scottrf wrote:
Herman Jaeger wrote:Good metric or not Ward didn’t get all the belts at light heavyweight so was only the man at one weight and didn’t make any defences at 68 when he was the man. Much easier getting to the top than staying there
But wait he didn't get all the belts at 168 so why was he the man there?

He obviously became the man with Froch would have become the man at 75 with a win over Stevenson

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Post by LionsV2 on Wed 18 Oct 2017, 4:09 pm

He also defended against Edwin Rodriguez but who cares about facts.

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Post by LionsV2 on Wed 18 Oct 2017, 4:09 pm

Herman Jaeger wrote:
Scottrf wrote:
Herman Jaeger wrote:Good metric or not Ward didn’t get all the belts at light heavyweight so was only the man at one weight and didn’t make any defences at 68 when he was the man. Much easier getting to the top than staying there
But wait he didn't get all the belts at 168 so why was he the man there?

He obviously became the man with Froch would have become the man at 75 with a win over Stevenson

Bute was the divisions number two at that time not Froch.

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Post by Herman Jaeger on Wed 18 Oct 2017, 4:10 pm

LionsV2 wrote:He also defended against Edwin Rodriguez but who cares about facts.

Forgot about that one wow Rodriguez may have to change my mind

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Post by Herman Jaeger on Wed 18 Oct 2017, 4:11 pm

LionsV2 wrote:
Herman Jaeger wrote:
Scottrf wrote:
Herman Jaeger wrote:Good metric or not Ward didn’t get all the belts at light heavyweight so was only the man at one weight and didn’t make any defences at 68 when he was the man. Much easier getting to the top than staying there
But wait he didn't get all the belts at 168 so why was he the man there?

He obviously became the man with Froch would have become the man at 75 with a win over Stevenson

Bute was the divisions number two at that time not Froch.

He wouldn’t defend against Bute left it to Froch another mark against him

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Post by LionsV2 on Wed 18 Oct 2017, 4:18 pm

You make it up as you go along, I've never come across someone who knows so little about boxing yet comments on it.

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Post by Herman Jaeger on Wed 18 Oct 2017, 4:22 pm

Don’t why you don’t just ignore me

Boxing makes it up as it goes along same with boxing historians opinions can change from day to day you’ve yet to convince me Ward has done enough to be called atg

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Post by LionsV2 on Wed 18 Oct 2017, 4:29 pm

I've not tried convincing you of anything, I see you nothing more than comedy account, helps waste some time during work.

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Post by Herman Jaeger on Wed 18 Oct 2017, 8:36 pm

LionsV2 wrote:I've not tried convincing you of anything, I see you nothing more than comedy account, helps waste some time during work.

Sounds like you need to get a life

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Post by Herman Jaeger on Wed 18 Oct 2017, 9:21 pm

What a load of bs from Hunter won’t fight Stevenson because he won’t fight for less money than he got for Kovalev. Those fights were subsidised by Rocnation and they weren’t prepared to subsidise Ward anymore. Ward isn’t worth 5 or 6 million a fight nobody wants to watch him. Beat Beterbiev and Bivol, Gvozdyk and Yardee then he might be able to command those kind of purses

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Post by milkyboy on Wed 18 Oct 2017, 9:36 pm

Herman Jaeger wrote:Funny guy

Why do Ward fans have a problem with some people thinking he ran from Beterbiev anyway?

Does Ward have any fans? I’m not one. It’s a public forum, it’s your right to spout completely unsubstantiated tosh, and others have the right to pick you up on it.

You’re like the black knight in the holy grail... get your arms and legs chopped off in an argument and still claiming a draw.

But we wouldn’t love you any other way hermy

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Post by hazharrison on Thu 19 Oct 2017, 7:56 am

LionsV2 wrote:
Herman Jaeger wrote:
Scottrf wrote:
Herman Jaeger wrote:Good metric or not Ward didn’t get all the belts at light heavyweight so was only the man at one weight and didn’t make any defences at 68 when he was the man. Much easier getting to the top than staying there
But wait he didn't get all the belts at 168 so why was he the man there?

He obviously became the man with Froch would have become the man at 75 with a win over Stevenson

Bute was the divisions number two at that time not Froch.

Which set of rankings are you referring to Loins?

Froch was #2 with both Ring Mag and TBRB (the only outlets who recognise these lineal titles to my knowledge).

Ring diluted their policy, later stripping Stevenson (bizarre considering the whole construct of these belts was to avoid stripping fighters outside of the ring) to facilitate Ward vs Kovalev for their belt (TBRB still go down the lineal route - so Stevenson remains the boss).

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Post by LionsV2 on Thu 19 Oct 2017, 8:01 am

Bute was number two with the ring magazine at the time.

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Post by Herman Jaeger on Thu 19 Oct 2017, 9:04 am

Regardless of where Bute did or didn’t rank at the time I would have been more impressed with Ward’s 68 resume if he had made a few reasonable defences Bute, DeGale, Ramirez etc.

Yes he climbed the mountain but he didn’t have much of a reign did he? Rightly or wrongly I do value a bit of a reign

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Post by Derbymanc on Thu 19 Oct 2017, 9:13 am

Bute was destroyed by Froch so that would have meant nothingin a lot of peoples eyes and Degale only really stamped his name on the division in the last 2 years or so so like with Froch don't think you can really hold it against Ward for not facing him (he hasn't really set the division alight either tbf, and i like Chunky)

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Post by LionsV2 on Thu 19 Oct 2017, 9:23 am

Kessler, Abraham, Bika, Froch, Dawson, Rodriguez and Green not much of a reign?

Six defences, at one point had beaten all four titlists and the undisputed number one in the division, no matter who anyone faces Herman will always say they should have fought Boxer A and B just because.

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Post by Herman Jaeger on Thu 19 Oct 2017, 9:26 am

See when you’re the top dog people come wanting to give it their all. That’s why I like a bit of a reign. I’d like to see Ward come out of retirement, drop back down(clearly doesn’t fancy a sustained crack at 75) and fight Ramirez. That could be a very tricky fight for him

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Post by Herman Jaeger on Thu 19 Oct 2017, 9:31 am

LionsV2 wrote:Kessler, Abraham, Bika, Froch, Dawson, Rodriguez and Green not much of a reign?

Six defences, at one point had beaten all four titlists and the undisputed number one in the division, no matter who anyone faces Herman will always say they should have fought Boxer A and B just because.

Only Froch really stands out for me

Kessler and Abraham already maybe on the way down although ok Kessler that’s still a good win but Artur never as good at 68, Dawson literally looked like a stick insect in human form don’t value that win at all

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Post by LionsV2 on Thu 19 Oct 2017, 9:34 am

All of them with the exception of Green had better resumes than Beterbiev and Bivol who you can't stop sucking off.

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Post by Herman Jaeger on Thu 19 Oct 2017, 9:40 am

Bivol and Beterbiev have size on Ward those two fights would be more challenging than Froch who I rate as Ward’s best win at 68

I reckon DeGale and Ramirez at 68 would be trickier defences than all his other defences bar Froch


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Post by Herman Jaeger on Thu 19 Oct 2017, 9:42 am

LionsV2 wrote:All of them with the exception of Green had better resumes than Beterbiev and Bivol who you can't stop sucking off.

Can we have less of the sexual imagery please. Who do you think you are Bernard Hopkins?

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Post by LionsV2 on Thu 19 Oct 2017, 9:50 am

Beterbiev and Bivol more challenging than Froch? Keep it up, this is comedy gold.

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Post by Herman Jaeger on Thu 19 Oct 2017, 9:56 am

Both have bludgeoning power, considerably more single shot power than Froch I think that’s what gave Ward the willies

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Post by LionsV2 on Thu 19 Oct 2017, 10:14 am

Which of Bivols fights highlights that power and which punch of his does the damage?

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Post by Herman Jaeger on Thu 19 Oct 2017, 10:27 am

LionsV2 wrote:Which of Bivols fights highlights that power and which punch of his does the damage?

Don’t know can’t say I’ve studied him

Bottom line is Ward knew deep down he wasn’t a true 75’r didn’t fancy a sustained crack against the big hitters

If the division had been full of boxers rather than bangers Ward may have been more willing to take his chance

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Post by Scottrf on Thu 19 Oct 2017, 10:33 am

Why would a boxer be scared of a banger? Boxers almost always hold the advantage. The idea that he's running from an 11 fight novice is ludicrous.

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