The Lions winter tours thread (Australia, then West Indies)

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

The Lions squad for a tour of Australia has been selected (see below) - they have a 7 (seven!!) week tour of West Indies in early 2018 too before the North-South series, so we can discuss that here when it comes round.

Lions: Dom Bess (Somerset), Joe Clarke (Worcestershire), Paul Coughlin (Durham/Nottinghamshire), Alex Davies (Lancashire), Ben Duckett (Northamptonshire), George Garton (Sussex), Nick Gubbins (Middlesex), Tom Helm (Middlesex), Keaton Jennings (Durham/Lancashire), Dan Lawrence (Essex), Jack Leach (Somerset), Liam Livingstone (Lancashire), Saqib Mahmood (Lancashire), Jamie Porter (Essex), Amar Virdi (Surrey), Tom Westley (Essex), Mark Wood (Durham).

That's your squad. Surprised there is no Rory Burns, Sam Northeast or Sam Curran. Tom Curran is playing T20 leagues (I believe he has a contract for South Africa, and I've seen rumours of a BBL deal too). Would have thought despite having a poor season Sam Curran would still be in their thoughts (unless he is replacing a certain all rounder..........nah)

What do you guys think?

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Should be noted James Whittaker says re: the squad for the West Indies tour in 2018

"We would expect a number of other players to be in contention for that squad - for example Haseeb Hameed, who was not considered for this squad due to injury"

Seems like this squad has been selected with half an eye on having people out there who could play in the Ashes if needed (Jennings, Westley, Wood, Duckett)

[guildfordbat]

Thanks for the thread, Olly.

As national selector James Whitaker has said about this squad, ''there's a range of experience''. Given that was the intention when names were being chosen, I feel it pretty much fits the brief.

Surprised though that there's no Plunkett or Dawson. Maybe one is about to be called into the senior squad for Stokes; surely, it can't be both?

I'll comment on the Surrey players you mention whom I've seen some of this year.

I've no disagreement with Sam Curran being left out. As you say (and as I half-predicted - no false modesty here! ), he had a poor season. Surrey over relied and overused him to his and their detriment. The thing he most needs is a break from the game.

I'm sorry Tom Curran appears to be chasing the T20 dollar or rand and so is unavailable. I like him a lot, he seems to have a good outlook on the game being prepared to learn and not get fazed.

Burns is a dependable county pro. The value of that shouldn't be overlooked but if it makes him an international batsman, it's mainly because others aren't cutting the mustard. Given his consistency in 2017 and recent seasons, I can understand if he feels unlucky to miss out although I can also understand the selectors feeling he's not quite what they're after. In particular, too few fifties are converted into centuries. For me, he just comes up a bit short as a game changer.

Virdi is definitely at the rookie end when considering Whitaker's range of experience. Think he's only played 3 CC matches but did well on debut against Hants at the Rose Bowl and has taken shedloads of wickets for the seconds. He's been involved with various England age groups over recent years and they obviously believe there's something there. They could be right although no one should expect him to be playing full international cricket next summer. In the modern game, he'll also need to work at his batting - the only time I've seen him with the willow, he was number 11 and that didn't flatter him one jot as TRJ bamboozled him before splattering his stumps.

Glad also that Helm has been selected. No place, I see, for Finn. I know a few Middlesex regulars and they would say that's the right call, regardless of Helm's youth probably giving him an advantage anyway.

Pleased as well that Leach and Bess have been called up and get the opportunity to show what they can do away from the track at Taunton. Rashid seems out of the picture for now.

Having played a very major role in taking Essex to the Championship title, it's certainly right that Porter is included. It'll be interesting to see how he gets on and whether he looks like stepping up further. When I saw him at Guildford, he had a slightly stuttering, almost schoolboyish run up. It didn't look that pretty but it has worked for him - I hope the England coaches keep that in mind before deciding to get to work on him.

One other young seamer who can count himself unlucky is Yorks' Ben Coad. I've only seen him briefly on tv but 50 CC wickets in his debut (I think) season has to signify some promise.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Interesting note from Will MacPherson that Ben Duckett turned down offers from T20 leagues to tour with the Lions

[JDizzle]

Guessing it is just a typo from the ECB, but they seem to have missed Ed Barnard's name off the squad? 47 wickets at 25.25 and 580 runs @ 36.25, despite mainly batting 8/9/10! How he doesn't bat higher up than that is a genuine disgrace.

Tom Helm and Saqib Mahmood I like, but Mahmoud is still working his way back from injury so hopefully they don't push him too hard. Garton is fast and a left armer but not much else - has always been very wayward when I have seen him bowl.

Dan Lawrence is a sensational player to watch bat as well, so hopefully he goes well as he is 100% box office. I hope he and Duckett can make full use of their ridiculous talent.

[guildfordbat]

Hi JD - Rob Key is one of the Sky guys I like and who, in contrast to some of their bigger names, has his feet on the ground. Anyway, he said similar about Lawrence the other day. He even went on to add that he would have included Lawrence in his senior England squad for the Ashes.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

From what I’ve seen of Lawrence he looks a quality player and his wristy flicks through the leg side are works of art

[JDizzle]

I agree Guildford - Key is an excellent commentator, and you would hope (given his playing career ended more recently than others) is more clued in on the County game. I don't know if he will have ever played against DL, but his high praise must be worth something.

And anyone who can play shots like this is welcome in any team I support - https://twitter.com/essexcricket/status/890647403535015940

[Mat]

Interesting looking squad. As said, seems a mix of possible Test Match contenders for the Ashes(Although not as many as expected I would say) Players who in the slightly longer-term could get a chance(thinking Clarke, Livingstone, Lawrence if middle order woes continue) and then a third category which is young, raw players who perhaps are a bit unproven but with potentially game-changing attributes.

That's why I'm a tad surprised that someone like Josh Tongue, Worcestershire bias firmly accepted, hasn't gone considering the likes of Garton and Mahmood are there.

[alfie]

Like guildford , I'd have expected Plunkett and Dawson , if only to be on hand as possible injury replacements for the senior squad.
If Stokes is a non starter you'd think he'd have to be replaced by a fast bowler - preferably one who can bat a bit . ie Plunkett ?
But is Dawson (and Rashid) now totally off the radar ? Moeen is obviously the man ; but if he were to suffer an injury would Crane - or Leach or Virdi ! - be a serious replacement ?

As a pure Lions - meaning a development squad - it makes good sense. Just feel it misses a bit as a spare bowler group ; though they seem to have most of the reasonable batting alternates on deck.

Hope they know what they're doing.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Jamie Porter will miss the Lions tour with a lower back stress fracture.

Huge shame for the lad

[Jetty]

Interesting looking squad. As said, seems a mix of possible Test Match contenders for the Ashes(Although not as many as expected I would say) Players who in the slightly longer-term could get a chance(thinking Clarke, Livingstone, Lawrence if middle order woes continue) and then a third category which is young, raw players who perhaps are a bit unproven but with potentially game-changing attributes.

That's why I'm a tad surprised that someone like Josh Tongue, Worcestershire bias firmly accepted, hasn't gone considering the likes of Garton and Mahmood are there.

Tongue replaces Porter. I am a fan too. Tall and fast. I wonder if any of the Lions players will get called up. Last time Australia used 11 players to our 18. I don't think Borthwick was with the Lions, but playing in Australia when called up for the last Test.

[SimonofSurrey]

As a Surrey fan, agree completely with guildford's assessment of Sam Curran. A break from the game should do him the world of. For those who don't follow Surrey closely (I recognise there may be one or two of you out there ), it only seems like Sam Curran has been a Surrey and Lions fixture fixture for ever. He may already have played 3 Lords Finals - yes, ok, we lost them all - but, incredibly, he's still a teenager until June next year. He'll come again, possibly even before the age where many top players made their initial breakthrough!

Beyond the reaches of God's Own County south of the Thames, this looks like a very exciting Lions squad full of young talent from around the country. It's especially good to have seen Essex rewarded for their fabulous season, as well as some class acts from Counties whose followers sometimes previously have despaired, not completely without good reason, that they appear too 'unfashionable' to draw the attention of the national selectors.

[guildfordbat]

A tough day one for the Lions in their three dayer against Queensland. The hosts totalled 396/8 declared whilst Jennings and Gubbins took us to 19/0 at the close.

I haven't seen a scorecard, only brief reports on the Surrey and Sky web sites. The Lions player of the day was 19 year old off spinner Amar Virdi of Surrey (that's why they're milking it on their site!). He ended up with a fourfer after being allowed to join this non first class game during the opening session when Notts bound Coughlin injured his hip.

Curran and Wood are said to have ''impressed'' skipper Jennings with their bowling. However, as neither report mentions any wickets, I take it they didn't take any!

[Jetty]

https://www.ecb.co.uk/matches/7226

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

England Lions squad

For whole tour

Keaton Jennings (Lancashire, capt)
Joe Clarke (Worcestershire)
Liam Livingstone (Lancashire)
Sam Curran (Surrey)
Jamie Porter (Essex)
Paul Coughlin (Nottinghamshire)
Saqib Mahmood (Lancashire)
Nick Gubbins (Middlesex)
Aaron Davies (Lancashire, wicket-keeper)

Red-ball only:

Haseeb Hameed (Lancashire)
Dan Lawrence (Essex)
Ben Foakes (Surrey, wicket-keeper)
Toby Roland-Jones (Middlesex)
Jack Leach (Somerset)
Mason Crane (Hampshire)
Josh Tongue (Worcestershire)

White-ball only:

Sam Northeast (Kent)
Liam Dawson (Hampshire)
Dominic Bess (Somerset)
Tom Helm (Middlesex)
George Garton (Sussex)
Matt Parkinson (Lancashire)

They will play three four day matches and three one day games. The squad is subject to change based on selection for the senior squad for the New Zealand series

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Ben Duckett left out of the squad for disciplinary reasons

If only he’d have punched someone on a night instead of throwing a drink over them he’d be in the senior ODI squad!

[guildfordbat]

Olly and all - does the inclusion of Crane tend to suggest he won't be playing Test cricket in Australia or New Zealand this winter? I only ask as his name has been cropping up a bit as England consider their options for the fourth Test in the light of Moeen's current difficulties.

I note Tom Curran's name isn't there. That suggests he's done enough to stay in the Test squad for the New Zealand tour. With Overton presumably still crocked, he could even be in contention for the Boxing Day Test.

[alfie]

Does say "subject to change " though , no ? You'd think Crane could easily be withdrawn if they want to keep him with the seniors in NZ - as I assume they're doing with Curran ?

I also see Dawson is considered white ball only ... Not the "main " spinner any more then

[guildfordbat]

Does say "subject to change " though , no ?   You'd think Crane could easily be withdrawn if they want to keep him with the seniors in NZ  - as I assume they're doing with Curran ?

I also see Dawson is considered white ball only ... Not the "main " spinner any more then

Fair point, Alfie. My comment was based on Olly's post as to the squad make up. I never think to look at other reports.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Yeah the main Lions red ball tour match dates don't overlap with the NZ tour dates, so you are likely to see some of those who are playing red ball only in the NZ senior squad you'd think - providing they are fit and doing well for the Lions. I think Whittaker said the NZ tour test squad is announced in the New Year, so we'll find out then

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