Ulster Rugby 2017-18

First topic message reminder :

Jeez - O’Donoghue eeled his way through that maul and caught Herring.

marty2086 wrote:We're doomed! We're doomed!

Ulster Rugby team to play La Rochelle, Champions Cup, Saturday 13th January, Kingspan Stadium, kick-off 1.00pm:
(15-9): C Piutau; C Gilroy, L Ludik, S McCloskey, J Stockdale; C Lealiifano, J Cooney;
(1-8): C Black, R Best (captain), R Ah You, A O'Connor, I Henderson, M Rea, S Reidy, N Timoney;
Replacements (16-23): R Herring, K McCall, R Kane, K Treadwell, C Henry, D Shanahan, J McPhillips, D Cave.

Yep, we're doomed but on a brighter note, it's to be horrendous tomorrow so that could be worth 10 points to us or could mean they stuff us by 10 points less, whatever way you look at it.

Pete330v2 wrote:"ah FFS, I'm fed up with this chat. Is there anyone at UR who hasn't been criticised? Is anyone actually thought of highly?"

Jebus Clive, you're on the wrong site if you're looking for the 'Ulster are Brill' brigade. I suggest Bakebook for that

Obviously I'm not saying 'Ulster are brill'. Just pointing out if every negative view point posted her about staff were true, it would mean Ulster are useless from top to bottom, and players themselves too.

If you say 'players have a higher ability, they just need the right coaching', can you not also be as kind to the other elements of the heirarchy? Peel would be grand if only... or... Gibbes would be grand if only... or... Kiss would be grand if only...

I just feel like its a bit of a merry go round on here.

We were told Doak and Clarke were a huge issue. my early remark on 'how would Doak feel watching this season' is not me saying that he was doing well - but it does show that replacing him didnt really make much difference did it.
He would be right to feel hard done by here no?

Last year the chat was Doak and Clarke were the issue, and a year later - not much has changed in terms of on-field performance. This year the pitchforks are out for Kiss.

I'm just saying if Kiss got booted and somebody else brought it, I'd be taking any optimism with a substantial spoonful of salt. I wouldn't be overly surprised to be sitting reading the same old speculatory negative opinions about other staff members on here a year from now.

Clive sadly we do have serious structural problems and the club needs, but probably will not get, a serious overhaul.
Because of that getting rid of a person here and there is not going to solve a structural problem.
Having said we make it worse for ourselves with certain appointments.

We could help ourselves considerable with having a CEO who considers the game of rugby the priority and is not obsessed with
the bottom line and is not obsessed with image to the point of coming across as sanctimonious, preachy and disappears without trace when the going gets tough.
We could help ourselves considerably with having a coaching structure that has clear dividing lines of responsibility and maximises the strengths of each individual. It also needs a hard nosed leader who is going to be clear in the direction they give nand is not seen as a soft touch.

Doak and Clarke were an issue - did anyone say they were the issue ?
You cannot have coaches who don't talk to each other.
You cannot have a forwards coach who loses you decent forward prospects by his obnoxious personality
You cannot have a forwards coach who loses you a quality defence, Bararak, because he cant work with a man who he considers (rightly in my opinion) an idiot

With that in mind Logan and Kiss have to go.
I'd give all other coaches a pass as they are only just in the door and given a sensible set up may just shine

Having said all that we still need to have committees who are committed to the success of Ulster rugby and are not more interested in lining their own pockets with freebies and jollies to games and other events.
We would do well to start with getting rid of that self serving twunk Cedric Wilson.

It is going to be a long road back to being a well run rugby club - if we embark on the road at all

Wasn't it the committees who blocked changes to the schools cup and allowing players to play schools and cup rugby?

clivemcl wrote:

Pete330v2 wrote:"ah FFS, I'm fed up with this chat. Is there anyone at UR who hasn't been criticised? Is anyone actually thought of highly?"

Jebus Clive, you're on the wrong site if you're looking for the 'Ulster are Brill' brigade. I suggest Bakebook for that

Obviously I'm not saying 'Ulster are brill'. Just pointing out if every negative view point posted her about staff were true, it would mean Ulster are useless from top to bottom, and players themselves too.

I didn't include you in that shower Clive, you're firmly down here on earth with us 606 whingers

marty2086 wrote:We're doomed! We're doomed!

Ulster Rugby team to play La Rochelle, Champions Cup, Saturday 13th January, Kingspan Stadium, kick-off 1.00pm:
(15-9): C Piutau; C Gilroy, L Ludik, S McCloskey, J Stockdale; C Lealiifano, J Cooney;
(1-8): C Black, R Best (captain), R Ah You, A O'Connor, I Henderson, M Rea, S Reidy, N Timoney;
Replacements (16-23): R Herring, K McCall, R Kane, K Treadwell, C Henry, D Shanahan, J McPhillips, D Cave.

La Rochelle:
(15-9) K Murimurivalu, G Lacroix, G Doumayrou, P Aguillon, V Rattez, J Sinzelle, A Bales; (1-8) D Priso, P Bourgarit, U Atonio, J Eaton, M Tanguy, L Botia, K Gourdon, V Vito.
(16-23) J Orioli, V Pelo, M Boughanmi, G Lamboley, A Amosa, T K-Barlow, B Nobles, P Jordaan.

So not only are VdM and Deysel missing but so is the other constant sick note Herbst. These saffers are not as tough as they used to be, Arno Botha would have been our best signing.
Also just realized than Shanahan is on the bench with Stewart dropped to the A team. Yes, Shanahan. Flip me.

Ulster to win by 3......

Shanahans on the bench for the A game tonight Pete, Kane was due to start it but Herbst got injured and Kane was pulled from the game

marty2086 wrote:Shanahans on the bench for the A game tonight Pete, Kane was due to start it but Herbst got injured and Kane was pulled from the game

He's on the bench for the A game but named on the bench for the Rochelle game as well. So good they named him twice.

Pete330v2 wrote:

marty2086 wrote:Shanahans on the bench for the A game tonight Pete, Kane was due to start it but Herbst got injured and Kane was pulled from the game

He's on the bench for the A game but named on the bench for the Rochelle game as well. So good they named him twice.

Yeah, I saw the A team selection as a sign of the new pecking order and thought Marshall was back but nope

Pete330v2 wrote:

marty2086 wrote:We're doomed! We're doomed!

Ulster Rugby team to play La Rochelle, Champions Cup, Saturday 13th January, Kingspan Stadium, kick-off 1.00pm:
(15-9): C Piutau; C Gilroy, L Ludik, S McCloskey, J Stockdale; C Lealiifano, J Cooney;
(1-8): C Black, R Best (captain), R Ah You, A O'Connor, I Henderson, M Rea, S Reidy, N Timoney;
Replacements (16-23): R Herring, K McCall, R Kane, K Treadwell, C Henry, D Shanahan, J McPhillips, D Cave.

La Rochelle:
(15-9) K Murimurivalu, G Lacroix, G Doumayrou, P Aguillon, V Rattez, J Sinzelle, A Bales; (1-8) D Priso, P Bourgarit, U Atonio, J Eaton, M Tanguy, L Botia, K Gourdon, V Vito.
(16-23) J Orioli, V Pelo, M Boughanmi, G Lamboley, A Amosa, T K-Barlow, B Nobles, P Jordaan.

So not only are VdM and Deysel missing but so is the other constant sick note Herbst. These saffers are not as tough as they used to be, Arno Botha would have been our best signing.
Also just realized than Shanahan is on the bench with Stewart dropped to the A team. Yes, Shanahan. Flip me.

Ulster to win by 3......

Is Stewart in the ECC squad? Can't think of any other reason to have Shanahan in there.

Stewart is not in the European squad

That explains it although to have Shanahan over Stewart in the ECC squad is odd to me, Shanahan has been nothing short of useless (opinion only, not stated as fact)

I must be the only one who is optimistic about Ulster's chances here today. That is not a bad side.

eirebilly wrote:I must be the only one who is optimistic about Ulster's chances here today. That is not a bad side.

We will win. No drama

Ludik doesn't know what's going on at 13.

Looks like Ulster will get nothing from the ref today. I have counted 2 forward passes, 3 knock-ons and a couple of offsides from La Rochelle go unpunished whilst every indiscretion from Ulster has been punished.

Not the difference between the teams as La Rochelle have been better but it is slightly annoying.

After that, Ulster get away with a knock-on...

Zero attacking lines from Ulster here.

Going backwards because we have no carriers.

Incredibly harsh YC against La Rochelle. Piatau jumped into him.

It now seems Ulster are getting everything, no consistency right now.

Artful_Dodger wrote:Ludik doesn't know what's going on at 13.

He does look very poor doesn't he. Would almost be tempted to hook him off and put Stockdale in the centre or Stockdale to 15 and Piatau to the centre...

eirebilly wrote:

Artful_Dodger wrote:Ludik doesn't know what's going on at 13.

He does look very poor doesn't he. Would almost be tempted to hook him off and put Stockdale in the centre or Stockdale to 15 and Piatau to the centre...

We could have gone really left field and played Darren Cave, an outside centre, at outside centre and Ludik on the bench.

Even better option, doesn't help now that Gilroy has gone off.

Some finish from Stockdale. Easily the first winger on the Irish team selection right now.

Cave at 13 and Ludik on the wing, whadya know....it starts to work.

A solid scrum here and Ulster could get over the line for a TBP...

Did I just see Payne there as water boy?

Very upset with Barnes here, with Ulster in full control 10mtrs out a La Rochelle player runs through the Ulster attack disrupting the pass and it ends up being called a knock-on against Ulster...

Good win for Ulster in the end.

This is why I have been saying that I do not believe La Rochelle are the clear favourites for the comp.

Best, what a player

See I said we would win

Still gonna need at least 1 point against Wasps.

And I quote myself:
"Ulster to win by 3..."
Well I can't always be perfect.

What a display that's sadly been too rare this season. The guts and determination on display today is exactly what's needed every week. Besty a deserved MOTM with Cooney just behind. Cooney has become a very Gallic scrum half, bossing the game from the 9 shirt.

Artful_Dodger wrote:Going backwards because we have no carriers.

We were going backwards early on because we were taking the ball flat and static, going up against a side the size of La Rochelle you won't get anywhere

After a while the players started coming from a bit deeper and using their feet and trying to get inside or outside the defender rather than trying to go through them

After the Harlequins game I said Ulster could beat La Rochelle in Belfast, a rare moment of positivity when all were saying how bad it was Wasps beat La Rochelle. Now I am slightly dissapointed even though we won because we didn't deny them the losing bonus point, there's just no pleasing me lol

neilthom7 wrote:After the Harlequins game I said Ulster could beat La Rochelle in Belfast, a rare moment of positivity when all were saying how bad it was Wasps beat La Rochelle.  Now I am slightly dissapointed even though we won because we didn't deny them the losing bonus point, there's just no pleasing me lol

We should have denied them, we should have got the try bonus point but there's still a lot to work on. Yet again we conceded a try from a poor clearance kick, I've lost count of how many it is this season

I guess at least now it is in our hands, if we win at Wasps then we would be through either as group winners or one of the best runners up. Easier said than done of course.

If wasps loose today they may rest there frontline players next week

Wasp 14 up with 30 mins gone

What a come back from quin's. So wasps are out.

Wasps are out but they could still spoil our party the way Quins just did theirs. That being said, we have to go to the Ricoh looking to beat a team that no longer have a stake in the tournament.

Any one see what hask got a red for?

carpet baboon wrote:Any one see what hask got a red for?

Late shoulder to the face of a Quins back off the ball. Haskell knew straight away he f***ed up and went to the aid of the player he took out. Definite red card though and probably the end of his England career. He has been in poor form and that probably kills it.

Also wasps still have the league to fight for so may rest a few front line player's.
Anyway we have to win so let's go there and give it a fricking good lash

Artful_Dodger wrote:

carpet baboon wrote:Any one see what hask got a red for?

Late shoulder to the face of a Quins back off the ball.  Haskell knew straight away he f***ed up and went to the aid of the player he took out.  Definite red card though and probably the end of his England career.  He has been in poor form and that probably kills it.

Yup and the way Simmonds played today for Exeter I can't see him making it back in to team England

Ahhhh go on Wasps. Give us your B team and let us top that group. Something to smile about is rare, something to boast about in this season is unheard of.

I also hear Coetzee is rehabing really well and will be back. Here's hoping we can have him for a season.

Wasps can still qualify if they get a five point win and 17 points qualifies as a best runner up. A long shot but they won't field a B side against Ulster.
The Jordaan yellow card was the turning point, and while it was soft it was a reminder of the Payne/Goode incident and that was a red. Ulster needed the confidence that the extra man gave them to turn the tide, and La Rochelle visibly started feeling the atmosphere around them and were never able to get the momentum back.
Ulster had an opportunity at the end to take a drop goal and deny the French the bonus point, but preferred to hammer away for the try that would have got them an extra bonus. Ulster knew they had to win both games before kick off, but they also must have thought both Wasps and LR would take five points from Quins, so a bit of match awareness would have denied La Rochelle the lbp and they could have gone to Wasps needing only a win. Wasps away will be no easy trip, but might be interesting now that both sides need to score 4 tries.

Yeah I know but I can make my little wishes, I can't take another weekend of nailbiting and roaming around the house hiding from the TV
I think the images of Cooney going for the La Rochelle prop and Stockdale patting their replacement on the head like a little child will remain with me for some time. I doesn't mean I wasn't suffering from squeaky bum syndrome for the final 20 minutes or so. I was dreading watching that game to be honest, what a tonic it turned out to be.

The post match comments from Kiss and Ferris were especially interesting.
Kiss said he spoke with Collazo about what he has built over seven years "slowly but surely" and that is where Ulster want to be. Also mentioning that it doesn't happen overnight.

Ferris picked up on this and said that when Logan came in 2010 (ie more that 7 years ago) he stated that he wanted Ulster to be the top team not just in Europe but in the world - therefore Logan needs held to account.

Both of their statements were disingenuous.
La Rochelle may be a great team with pots of money and have been steadily improving but they haven't won anything. They topped their league last season just like Ulster did in 2013 - the same year Ulster topped their Heineken Cup pool for the first time. As well as reaching the ERC final in 2012, Ulster went unbeaten in their pool in 2014.

So up to that point Ulster were definitely in the top echelons of European rugby - and then Humphreys left. Maybe he realised he couldn't take Ulster any further so he left for a salary several times greater than Ulster could afford. That basic financial reality has seemed to escape Ferris with his fatuous calls to hold Logan to account.

He would do much better pointing out why the other provincial academies are churning out more and better players than Ulster and asking the Branch why they persist with a broken School's system.

Yesterdays game was Rorys first win in an Ulster shirt in over a year

Heard Kiss' interview especially the bit about consistency and got me thinking of Todd Blackadders from the night before. He spoke about consistent preparation but inconsistent performances. Mentioned maybe bringing in a sports psychologist, something that's long overdue at Ulster?

Blackadder Invterview

Kiss Interview

Looking at the tables best runner up will need 19 points, so that's wasps out and we will need minimum 2 points. So it's win or bust next week

Mathematically Wasps are still in with a shout of winning the group are they not?