European Tour 2018

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Just finished looking through Robo's post on the 2019 schedules and noticed that the European tour will be visiting Saudi Arabia on Jan 31. Apparently DJ and Fatprick are already in the field.

Pelley not feeling solidarity with Khashoggi then?

Seems like a poor sense of judgement to be taking the tour to Saudi Arabia in the current political climate. Not that I can think of any pro golfers who would actually have the backbone to boycott the event, or fact really give a toss about the event being there.

Saudi Arabia?
What's Pelley thinking? Is he thinking??

Mac,
Plenty boycotted South Africa a generation or two ago - imagine that those boycotting the Saudis would just choose not to enter, not much point in making a fuss about it, that's the Tour's job. Oh, wait . . . . . . .

Then they should also boycott UAE, Oman, China, Malaysia, Kenya, Mexico, USA etc.

All we’d be left with was The Bristish Masters hosted by Tommy and Frankie.

The Saudi tournament has been in the pipeline for some time, I remember reading about it months ago.

As bad as the Khashoggi story is, is it enough to cause a pro sport to scrap an event at short notice? Particularly when the various other issues Saudi Arabia has clearly didn’t matter enough. In fairness to the tour they did scrap their Bahrain event a few wars ago when the situation worsened there. I imagine they’re considering all options, but are hedging their bets for now given that there’s still a few months to go.

NedB-H wrote:The Saudi tournament has been in the pipeline for some time, I remember reading about it months ago.

As bad as the Khashoggi story is, is it enough to cause a pro sport to scrap an event at short notice? Particularly when the various other issues Saudi Arabia has clearly didn’t matter enough. In fairness to the tour they did scrap their Bahrain event a few wars ago when the situation worsened there. I imagine they’re considering all options, but are hedging their bets for now given that there’s still a few months to go.

Anybody getting caught cheating has their hands cut off, and any player found to be gay is thrown from the nearest building. Notah Begay and Brian Gay not likely to make the trip. Wouldn't imagine the bible study group of American players will be going over there either.

super_realist wrote:

NedB-H wrote:The Saudi tournament has been in the pipeline for some time, I remember reading about it months ago.

As bad as the Khashoggi story is, is it enough to cause a pro sport to scrap an event at short notice? Particularly when the various other issues Saudi Arabia has clearly didn’t matter enough. In fairness to the tour they did scrap their Bahrain event a few wars ago when the situation worsened there. I imagine they’re considering all options, but are hedging their bets for now given that there’s still a few months to go.

Anybody getting caught cheating has their hands cut off, and any player found to be gay is thrown from the nearest building. Notah Begay and Brian Gay not likely to make the trip. Wouldn't imagine the bible study group of American players will be going over there either.

Ned

"As bad as the Khashoggi story is" and it is pretty horrendous, it alone should be enough to make a "western" run sporting organization avoid Saudi Arabia as a host nation.


Super

You forget, there are no gay people in golf. No fans, no club members, no pro's, nobody.

Mac,

The major golf tours have literally just co-hosted a tournament last weekend in China. I’m not going to suggest we start a league table of the worst human rights abuses, but is China’s treatment of dissident like Ai Weiwei not comparable with the Khashoggi case? Or how about their systemic abuse of the Uighur minority that was covered last week? I guess no one should be playing sport in Russia after what they did to the Skripals...

The European Tour has staged events in the UAE and Qatar for years so presumably we’re ok to pass over those countries’ abuses of south Asian immigrants. And then there’s the fact that Saudi Arabia has been engaged in all sorts of domestic and overseas controversies long prior to the Khashoggi case; in fact it was attempting to publicise those abuses which caused Khashoggi to meet his sticky end.

I’m not trying to trivialise the Khashoggi case. But in light of all the bad that goes on in the world, and the many abuses Saudi Arabia has long been getting up to, isn’t saying anything should change because of this latest incident somewhat bandwagon-jumping?

Shouldn't be anything held in Britain over the treatment of Deidre Rashid [sic], falsely imprisoned for a crime she didn't commit in a politically and racially polarised suburb of Manchester. Until we get our own house in order, we should refrain from poking our own hypocritical noses into the affairs of other nations.

Free the Weatherfield One.

That is all.

Roller I haven't heard about that case but I agree that the UK doesn't behave in a way I would condone, for example its relationship with Saudi Arabia.

And Anyway it's not like the ET are that bothered about hosting events in the UK anyway.


But on the China issue isn't that just perpetuating the whataboutery trend of the moment. Yes the ET probably shouldn't be in china, but does that wrong mean it should continue to plough on into more dodgy countries? The ET doesn't want to become like F1 where it will host an event wherever anyone coughs up the cash, however badly they have hammered human rights.

Reel him in Roller - you've caught a big one there ;-)

Not really Davie, I just admitted that the UK can currently be and has in the past probably behaved as badly as any country. But with another demise of the British Masters the ET isn't exactly a frequent visitor to England.

You clearly missed Roller's satirical reference to Deidre Rashid though

Who the fck is Deidre Rashid?

JFGI

McLaren wrote:Who the fck is Deidre Rashid?

Judged by the name it is someone you should not make jokes about.

Davie

I hate the JFGI response, I treat this like a conversation I would have in person. The flow is a lot better if you don't just google everything discussed.

Pedro

By the sounds of it she has suffered some sort of injustice, are you insinuating the police might be a touch racist?

McLaren wrote:

Pedro

By the sounds of it she has suffered some sort of injustice, are you insinuating the police might be a touch racist?

Just referring to Roller's joke. She's woman and ethnic, so not prime joke material these days... Aren't you offended?

offended by what? But no, should I be?

Free the Weatherfield One

Mac - allow me.

She may not have been Rashid at the time, although she certainly was at one point but I'd guessed that the use of Barlow may, just may, have triggered a "eureka" moment.

You could possibly get a Free the Weatherfield One T shirt on e-bay (or other online buy/sell services), in fact I'd encourage you to do so. Self deprecating in a way that no-one else will understand (unless one of the other posters happens across you in town).

I see, what has a 90's soap storyline got to do with anything?

You've been trolled and fell for it

Davie

I was more of a Hollyoaks and Neighbors guy.

McLaren wrote:Not really Davie, I just admitted that the UK can currently be and has in the past probably behaved as badly as any country.  But with another demise of the British Masters the ET isn't exactly a frequent visitor to England.

When?

Are you talking about the days of the Empire and colonialism? Move on Mac, there comes a point when subsequent generations no longer have to apologise for the harm caused in the past.

McLaren wrote:I see, what has a 90's soap storyline got to do with anything?

Nothing, I was just effing about with an injustice, albeit a twenty year old, fictional one.

super_realist wrote:

McLaren wrote:Not really Davie, I just admitted that the UK can currently be and has in the past probably behaved as badly as any country.  But with another demise of the British Masters the ET isn't exactly a frequent visitor to England.

When?

Are you talking about the days of the Empire and colonialism? Move on Mac, there comes a point when subsequent generations no longer have to apologise for the harm caused in the past.

I think he's referring to the Brexit vote.

Super

If you don't think that Britain has a pretty deplorable record historically, both quite recently and back to the day of empire I doubt you will be convinced otherwise. So lets not wreck the ET thread with that debate.

See Paddy H has started well in Turkey. One back from fellow Oirishman Paul Dunne atop the leaderboard.

Westy's had a decent first pop too.

Sorry - it's a bit on topic.

Bloody disgrace Roller, I want to hear about the injustice of Stephanie Scully's prison time.



You would have thought Shane might have had at least a nibble in Turkey.

McLaren wrote:Super

If you don't think that Britain has a pretty deplorable record historically, both quite recently and back to the day of empire I doubt you will be convinced otherwise.  So lets not wreck the ET thread with that debate.

Mac, it's undeniable that Britain has a terrible past, I didn't claim it didn't, but the time comes when you have to stop pouring guilt upon yourself, stop self flaggelating, move on and stop apologising for it. There's a great deal that Britain has given the world, so perhaps concentrate on that instead of hand wringing like a disgruntled sixth former.

You certainly don’t have to go back to the days of Empire to witness Britain’s shocking foreign policy interventions. Usually intervening badly when not needed and choosing to be utterly hypocritical when interventions have been warranted.

Diggers wrote:You certainly don’t have to go back to the days of Empire to witness Britain’s shocking foreign policy interventions. Usually intervening badly when not needed and choosing to be utterly hypocritical when interventions have been warranted.

I didn't say you had to, but subsequent generations or people not involved in policy making don't have to show any apology for anything.
It's not my fault for instance that we fought in Iraq on false information, so I'm not going to apologise for it, nor should I feel ashamed because of it. It had nothing to do with me.

I’m not saying you should apologise for them, I’m saying that you’re ignorant if you think that Britain’s foreign policy abuses ended with Empire and that your suggestion we should ignore those interventions and focus only on positives is...well, just weird.

I didn't say or even infer that Britain's shameful foreign policy ended with the empire, but that's the sort of thing that snowflake students with Mac's mentality go to as a default, and similar things like wanting a statue of Churchill taken down because he may have said a few racist things in the past.

I didn't say we should ONLY focus on the positives, I said that we shouldn't have to constantly apologise for everything bad and make token reparations for these for every bad thing this country has ever done. It's not the place for the people of today to apologise for the past. What possible good would that do?

You can't serve a sentence for my crimes, so what's the point in this ridiculous vicarious apology that people tend to make on behalf of others who wouldn't be sorry if they were still around? It's an empty gesture, but symptomatic of the infantile generation demand that is growing up these days.


It simply shows how easy they have it these days that this is the sort of thing they complain about these days.

Well you did, you made the assumption of jumping instantly to talking about Empire. You clearly have no thought to modern policy. That’s what happened.
And in the same way you are not to blame for those failings, you are no more to credit for any good. Yet you want to focus on those. Obviously.

Has anyone else seen Sam Horsfield taking a shot? He takes an eternity.

Rose's short putting gives me the heebie jeebies, he should have won this going away.

Li was a bit quick with his par putt. But both of them faffing around on the green made it interesting.

I'm never wrong wrote:Has anyone else seen Sam Horsfield taking a shot? He takes an eternity.

It was painful to watch. First time I actually thought the tv coverage had paused with him standing over the ball.

Even Mark Roe, who fawns over every player, was pretty critical.

McLaren wrote:
You forget, there are no gay people in golf.  No fans, no club members, no pro's, nobody.

You mean MEN'S golf. Plenty in women's golf.

That really was a very discriminatory statement Mac. Not very inclusive. You really should consider some training to reduce your gender bias.

raycastleunited wrote:

McLaren wrote:
You forget, there are no gay people in golf.  No fans, no club members, no pro's, nobody.

You mean MEN'S golf. Plenty in women's golf.

That really was a very discriminatory statement Mac. Not very inclusive. You really should consider some training to reduce your gender bias.

You seem disappointed mac. Did Adam Scott diss you?

According to this article, Justin Rose not playing the RtD finale

https://www.spin.ph/golf/justin-rose-turkish-open-pga-tour-rankings-a994-20181105

NedB-H wrote:The Saudi tournament has been in the pipeline for some time, I remember reading about it months ago.

As bad as the Khashoggi story is, is it enough to cause a pro sport to scrap an event at short notice? Particularly when the various other issues Saudi Arabia has clearly didn’t matter enough. In fairness to the tour they did scrap their Bahrain event a few wars ago when the situation worsened there. I imagine they’re considering all options, but are hedging their bets for now given that there’s still a few months to go.

I didn't see this thread at the time this was response was posted, but agree 100%.

I hate the mixing of politics and Sport. It's not that I don't think there aren't legitimate reasons to cancel an event or not participate, but what is and isn't legitimate reasons to me may or may not not be to others.

I mean just look how it can be taken to ridiculous extremes. The Open Championship is foregoing one of the best courses in it's rota because of entirely stupid over reactions to the leadership of one of UK's & Europe's staunchest ALLIES!!! So if we continue that game where does it end? Someone here suggested only the British Masters would be left? But would it? I'm sure we could find something wrong with that too if we look hard enough.

robopz wrote:
I mean just look how it can be taken to ridiculous extremes. The Open Championship is foregoing one of the best courses in it's rota because of entirely stupid over reactions to the leadership of one of UK's & Europe's staunchest ALLIES!!!   So if we continue that game where does it end? Someone here suggested only the British Masters would be left? But would it? I'm sure we could find something wrong with that too if we look hard enough.

I agree. We've just had the Turkish Open, they have a dodgy human rights record, as do most of the Middle East and Asian states that host events. Cancel the French open for their cruelty to animals while producing delicious food, and the German open for their nation's conduct during the war. British Masters should be boycotted for Britain's historic facilitation of slavery, persecution of muslims during the crusades, and use of torture. The treatment of Guy Fawkes was a clear breach of his human rights.

Not to speak of this weeks tournament, hosted by an old racist in a country occupied and mastered by whites and where all the local caddies are black. Not surprised Sergio Garcia is doing well.

raycastleunited wrote:

robopz wrote:
I mean just look how it can be taken to ridiculous extremes. The Open Championship is foregoing one of the best courses in it's rota because of entirely stupid over reactions to the leadership of one of UK's & Europe's staunchest ALLIES!!!   So if we continue that game where does it end? Someone here suggested only the British Masters would be left? But would it? I'm sure we could find something wrong with that too if we look hard enough.

I agree. We've just had the Turkish Open, they have a dodgy human rights record, as do most of the Middle East and Asian states that host events. Cancel the French open for their cruelty to animals while producing delicious food, and the German open for their nation's conduct during the war. British Masters should be boycotted for Britain's historic facilitation of slavery, persecution of muslims during the crusades, and use of torture. The treatment of Guy Fawkes was a clear breach of his human rights.

What about America's human rights record? Worse than a lot I would think. Torture, worst incarceration rates in the western world and the death penalty.

Lots of countries with dodgy human rights records, but when they are established you can sort of live with it and get used to it. But a brand new venture to Saudi, I just dont like.

beninho wrote:Lots of countries with dodgy human rights records, but when they are established you can sort of live with it and get used to it. But a brand new venture to Saudi, I just dont like.

How does the fact they are established make it any better? Surely brushing those countries under the carpet and highlighting Saudi Arabia is worse isn't it?

We'd all be hypocrites too unless we only ever went to the Nordic countries on holiday.

I wouldn't want to go to Saudi particularly either, but a lot of countries on both tours really aren't a great deal better.

Super

As I said above the UK, and as you now point out the US, have some of the worst human rights records going. But as you well know as a Hitchensophile your argument is whataboutery. Yes the Uk and US in particular (mostly against its own people) have terrible records but I don't see the logical argument that links that to it being ok to have a new tournament in Saudi?

Tiger reportedly turned down $3.25 mil to play in New Euro Tour event in Saudi Arabia. It plays the week after he's expected to play in Torrey Pines. DJ, Reed & Paul Casey are still scheduled to play apparently.

http://amp.si.com/golf/2018/11/08/tiger-woods-saudi-arabia

super_realist wrote:
We'd all be hypocrites too unless we only ever went to the Nordic countries on holiday.

I wouldn't want to go to Saudi particularly either, but a lot of countries on both tours really aren't a great deal better.

Nordic countries would be out too because those heartless bas***ds enforce their immigration laws even more harshly than the big bad ol' USA...