European Tour 2018

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robopz wrote:

super_realist wrote:
We'd all be hypocrites too unless we only ever went to the Nordic countries on holiday.

I wouldn't want to go to Saudi particularly either, but a lot of countries on both tours really aren't a great deal better.

Nordic countries would be out too because those heartless bas***ds enforce their immigration laws even more harshly than the big bad ol' USA...

What? Have you looked at Sweden? It's got tons of immigrants.

super_realist wrote:

robopz wrote:

super_realist wrote:
We'd all be hypocrites too unless we only ever went to the Nordic countries on holiday.

I wouldn't want to go to Saudi particularly either, but a lot of countries on both tours really aren't a great deal better.

Nordic countries would be out too because those heartless bas***ds enforce their immigration laws even more harshly than the big bad ol' USA...

What? Have you looked at Sweden? It's got tons of immigrants.

They’ve had border control for almost 3 years now super. Far right Sweden democrats just got 20% in recent elections. Malmo r@pe capital of Europe. They’ve had enough.

McLaren wrote:Super

As I said above the UK, and as you now point out the US, have some of the worst human rights records going.  

The UK has the worst human rights record? Do you mean currently? Please explain.

Hasn't most of Scandinavia got freedom of movement?

Ray I said they have some of the worst human rights violations or atrocities both in the past (especially the empire) and recently.

Not sure how to get a list of everything without having a better memory or knowledge of history but of the top of my head I can think of these crimes in the last 60 years or so (In many of our lifetimes).

Chuka Massacre
Hola Massacre
failure to accept responsibility for screwing over africa (and many other places) during empire and doing nothing about it.
Bloody Sunday and other atrocities in Ireland
masacre of Argentines in the Falklands (killing of prisoners of war)
War in Afgahnistan
Iraq 1
Iraq 2003 (legality, invasion, abu ghraib, civilian deaths etc)
Torturing of people captured during wars in Iraq and Afghanistan
Selling weapons for use against Yemeni civilians
Tory government failing to fully condemn apartheid in SA
death rates of the poor under Tory government
Windrush scandal
#Brexit


And I am sure you will all be able to add to this list.  The point is that many countries may have poor domestic adherence to basic rights for their citizens but the UK and US have a special knack of being really awful to the rest of the world.

Brexit is a human rights atrocity?

You are on form today

Re the Saudis it’s sinply a case of reaching a tipping point, they’ve done that. The west uses it as an excuse to show them who the boss is (whether it’s true or not) but it won’t last for long.
I don’t really get the “everyone’s bad so let’s not do anything for fear of being a hypocrite” line. I’d rather see one disgusting state held to some form of account than none.

Diggers wrote:Re the Saudis it’s sinply a case of reaching a tipping point, they’ve done that. The west uses it as an excuse to show them who the boss is (whether it’s true or not) but it won’t last for long.
I don’t really get the “everyone’s bad so let’s not do anything for fear of being a hypocrite” line. I’d rather see one disgusting state held to some form of account than none.

Spot on Digs.
Banana skins for you (Port Vale) and us (Maidenhead) this week.
(Funny old story about a woman from Maidenhead getting catapulted off her bed - and presumably her partner - when shifting "position" during sex and incurring allegedly life-altering injuries. The mind boggles.)

beninho wrote:Hasn't  most of Scandinavia got freedom of movement?

Not anymore. For the first time in 50 years.

pedro wrote:

beninho wrote:Hasn't  most of Scandinavia got freedom of movement?

Not anymore. For the first time in 50 years.

When did Sweden and Denmark leave the Eu, or Norway the EEA. They still gave FOM.

beninho wrote:

pedro wrote:

beninho wrote:Hasn't  most of Scandinavia got freedom of movement?

Not anymore. For the first time in 50 years.

When did Sweden and Denmark leave the Eu, or Norway the EEA. They still gave FOM.

Yeah but not without showing ID. Scandinavia had a mini Schengen since the 50s I think, just up until 2016.

pedro wrote:

beninho wrote:

pedro wrote:

beninho wrote:Hasn't  most of Scandinavia got freedom of movement?

Not anymore. For the first time in 50 years.

When did Sweden and Denmark leave the Eu, or Norway the EEA. They still gave FOM.

Yeah but not without showing ID. Scandinavia had a mini Schengen since the 50s I think, just up until 2016.

It is a bit random Pedro, I worked in Helsingborg for the first 3 months of 2017. The weekly commute was to fly into Copenhagen then train over the bridge into Sweden, going that way passports got a check at the train station at the airport then on the other side of the bridge the train stops and Swedish border guards check again (most but not all of the time). Going the other way I.e. back into Denmark however, no checks.
That practice dated from late 2015 when the big migrant surge happened.

Little video clip on the ET website. Ryan Fox demonstrating on the range how much further he hits the ball at altitude (He's at Sun City). He hit a driver 374 yards. 3 iron 311 yards.

McLaren wrote:Ray I said they have some of the worst human rights violations or atrocities both in the past (especially the empire) and recently.

Not sure how to get a list of everything without having a better memory or knowledge of history but of the top of my head I can think of these crimes in the last 60 years or so (In many of our lifetimes).

Chuka Massacre
Hola Massacre
failure to accept responsibility for screwing over africa (and many other places) during empire and doing nothing about it.
Bloody Sunday and other atrocities in Ireland
masacre of Argentines in the Falklands (killing of prisoners of war)
War in Afgahnistan
Iraq 1
Iraq 2003 (legality, invasion, abu ghraib, civilian deaths etc)
Torturing of people captured during wars in Iraq and Afghanistan
Selling weapons for use against Yemeni civilians
Tory government failing to fully condemn apartheid in SA
death rates of the poor under Tory government
Windrush scandal
#Brexit


And I am sure you will all be able to add to this list.  The point is that many countries may have poor domestic adherence to basic rights for their citizens but the UK and US have a special knack of being really awful to the rest of the world.

Mac, what the hell are you on about The Falklands for? Argentina have no claim over the Falklands. They have never owned it as a country. It would be like Britain trying to take the Faroes from the Danish.

If there were any POW's killed in that conflict, it wasn't sanctioned by the UK, it was done by individual soldiers acting AGAINST orders. You cannot lay that at the hands of the Britain.

As for the rest of your list, Britain has acted no differently to other countries. All have shameful pasts, but the point comes when you have to stop apologising for it. The "shame" does not belong to you.

Death rates of the poor under the Tories?  Grow up.

What are you doing about any of these things? That's right, nothing, as usual.

Anyway....great win for Westwood.

Got up to see the commemorations (not "celebrations", President bone spurs) of the end of the War To End All Wars, and was greeted by the surprise to end all surprises. Well done Lee, but where were the 18th green press ups? Fantastic!!

He'll need to go again next week to qualify for Augusta, but you wouldn't put it past him. Would you??!!

Is Westwood back?

His lack of major makes it easy to knock him, when he has easily had a better career then a lot of major winners.

Can somebody explain to me how Patrick Reed meets his 4 event minimum to play the Dubai Final? (he's played 2 ET events, and Dubai would make 3) Is the requirement 4 actual ET events.. or is it 3 + Ryder Cup?

Or is Pelley just giving Patrick another free pass/reward for being one of the adopted Euro hero's of the Ryder Cup....

http://www.europeantour.com/europeantour/season=2018/tournamentid=2018090/news/newsid=361215.html

robopz wrote:Can somebody explain to me how Patrick Reed meets his 4 event minimum to play the Dubai Final? (he's played 2 ET events, and Dubai would make 3)  Is the requirement 4 actual ET events.. or is it 3 + Ryder Cup?  

Or is Pelley just giving Patrick another free pass/reward for being one of the adopted Euro hero's of the Ryder Cup....    

http://www.europeantour.com/europeantour/season=2018/tournamentid=2018090/news/newsid=361215.html

I can't. I checked the ET website and found he was one short. I mentioned this before. I found an article HERE which showed how he was eligible last year as the Presidents Cup was counted, so I think your earlier post re the Ryder Cup must be the event that counts.

beninho wrote:His lack of major makes it easy to knock him, when he has easily had a better career then a lot of major winners.

Plenty like him too. I'd rather have the career of Donald, Westwood, Poulter etc than the career of Keegan Bradley, Jason Dufner, Webb Simpson or Danny Willett

I think the rc cups as a euro tour event so paddy reed should squeak in.

super_realist wrote:

beninho wrote:His lack of major makes it easy to knock him, when he has easily had a better career then a lot of major winners.

Plenty like him too. I'd rather have the career of Donald, Westwood, Poulter etc than the career of Keegan Bradley, Jason Dufner, Webb Simpson or Danny Willett

He is quite a likeable guy from what I see. To have played at such a level for so long is very impressive and a career better them most one major champ and even some two time winners.

beninho wrote:
He is quite a likeable guy from what I see. To have played at such a level for so long is very impressive and a career better them most one major champ and even some two time winners.

I think he's a quite likeable guy too and his dry wit/sense of humor is hilarious. But a lot of people over here don't "get" him. Too bad really.

robo,
Don't you think "dry wit/sense of humour" or self-deprecating is not much appreciated by "people over here" whoever it comes from? Not they they don't necessarily like it, they just don't get it.

Would say that lw1 has been much more popular over here since he stopped being a regular threat to win.

I wish the ET would give places in the Dubai field to players lower than 60th in the R2D rankings to fill spots left by any galacticos for whom it's too much trouble to play for so much money - better reward the rank and file of the ET.

I think it was Bill Bryson who said that “not having a sense of humour” is a mortal insult in the UK, whereas in the US, GSoH is just a nice bonus on the dating profile, on a par with a nice haircut or a good fashion sense.

Back on topic has it been confirmed how many of the top 60 are awol next week? I see Kuch slid to 61st today, but he looks like getting a good consolation prize. Might even be enough to persuade him to renew his Euro membership again.

Ned,
Not sure about this, but it looks from this as if perhaps there are some "lucky losers" after all:

http://www.europeantour.com/europeantour/season=2018/tournamentid=2018090/teetimes/index.html

Not Kooch though.

Rose, Suri & Casey missing.

Delighted for Lee today, some great play under pressure from some seriously inform players. He still has a Major in him, I'm telling ya!

Xander Schauffele is in the RtD field.

He has never played a European Tour event that was not co-sanctioned with the PGATour.

I'm never wrong wrote:Little video clip on the ET website. Ryan Fox demonstrating on the range how much further he hits the ball at altitude (He's at Sun City). He hit a driver 374 yards. 3 iron 311 yards.

It is crazy how the ball flies. I watched the climax on Sunday, Lee Westwood said his approach on 18 was the best 8 iron in his life... he had over 200 yards.

Westwood has had his GF on the bag twice this year: Runner up in Denmark, and a win here. Maybe Billy Foster should look for a new job?

pedro wrote:Westwood has had his GF on the bag twice this year: Runner up in Denmark, and a win here. Maybe Billy Foster should look for a new job?

Perhaps Lee still reads this board occasionally?

kwinigolfer wrote:

pedro wrote:Westwood has had his GF on the bag twice this year: Runner up in Denmark, and a win here. Maybe Billy Foster should look for a new job?

Perhaps Lee still reads this board occasionally?

Probably too busy shooing Mac away from his front door now that he's in Edinburgh

Super

Westwood donated some of his Ryder cup memorabilia to one of the charity shops in Edinburgh, I noticed a lot of it was still sitting unsold months later.

McLaren wrote:Super

Westwood donated some of his Ryder cup memorabilia to one of the charity shops in Edinburgh, I noticed a lot of it was still sitting unsold months later.

Maybe Scotland isn’t the right place to try to sell something no-one really needs...

pedro wrote:Westwood has had his GF on the bag twice this year: Runner up in Denmark, and a win here. Maybe Billy Foster should look for a new job?

Sounds like he is.
Permanent split, Billy not thrilled that he missed out on the Nedbank payday. Sure(?) they'll work something out though . . . . . . . . .

kwinigolfer wrote:robo,
Don't you think "dry wit/sense of humour" or self-deprecating is not much appreciated by "people over here" whoever it comes from? Not they they don't necessarily like it, they just don't get it.

yeah, that was my point. I think we have a tendency to take things too literal and recognizing sarcasm is becoming a lost art over here.

robopz wrote:

kwinigolfer wrote:robo,
Don't you think "dry wit/sense of humour" or self-deprecating is not much appreciated by "people over here" whoever it comes from? Not they they don't necessarily like it, they just don't get it.

yeah, that was my point. I think we have a tendency to take things too literal and recognizing sarcasm is becoming a lost art over here.

robo, (Wrong thread but still),
Good to see your protege Scottie Scheffler making it thru Second Stage - and nice tweet from Julien Trudeau saying it was "just as rewarding" as advancing from Second Stage himself nine years ago.

kwinigolfer wrote:

pedro wrote:Westwood has had his GF on the bag twice this year: Runner up in Denmark, and a win here. Maybe Billy Foster should look for a new job?

Sounds like he is.
Permanent split, Billy not thrilled that he missed out on the Nedbank payday. Sure(?)  they'll work something out though . . . . . . . . .

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/golf/2018/11/12/lee-westwood-retain-girlfriend-helen-storey-caddie-claiming/

Not too sure McIlroy will be on the phone anytime soon as speculated in the article. He parted ways with JP for the exact same reasons as lw1 with Foster: to take control over his own yardages. Can’t see Rory going back to an old school caddie in the near future. As I see it the main issue with Rory is Rory.

kwinigolfer wrote:
robo, (Wrong thread but still),
Good to see your protege Scottie Scheffler making it thru Second Stage - and nice tweet from Julien Trudeau saying it was "just as rewarding" as advancing from Second Stage himself nine years ago.

I think between Scheffler and Ghim, Scottie is a better long-term prospect. Needs more refinement than Doug, but he's got more tools in the toolbox IMO. Not going to be an overnight thing though I don't think.

So let's try to wrap our heads around this. If Reed & Xander have a good week, they have the potential of walking out of Dubai with 27% of the R2D bonus pool.  And that's with them having played only 2 regular ET events between them prior to the Dubai final. TWO... TOTAL.

Have Pelley and Bjorn lost their ever-loving minds with these new membership policies?  Looks to me all they're doing is inviting their top ET players to join the PGA Tour and play at home as little as they want... While the same time making it extremely easy for PGAT players to start coming in and carpetbagging the R2D.  

And if I'm a co-sanction qualified American, why not? I could play the Scottish Open for an Open prep, play a Ryder or Presidents Cup, and playing Dubai twice.  That's it that's all I got to do.

Let's be clear here. I am not in any way against the European tour being a successful Tour. But these policies are beyond nuts.

robo,
That's not the way to become a successful Tour - which is probably your point.
Get back to basics, get back to Europe +1 or 2, and be the very best you can be. Best is sometimes still better than BIGgest in some circles.
I don't reckon that trying to tailor a schedule to attract US players is the answer. But you can have a fine Tour, with integrity, which may attract one or two. Pelley is falling (on his face) between two stools at the moment.

Kwini, that's exactly my point.  

It's like I was saying the last week or so, all these different moves with the Rolex series and the schedule reorganization And the membership policies... It all makes sense individually. But you put them all together in the REAL WORLD, and I think the potential negatives of unintended consequences are greater than the benefits.

An interesting read from Geoff Ogilvy on the Australian Open today.  How golf Australia is doing exactly the opposite things they need to be doing to restore the Australian Open to what it can be.  This is a tremendous read by one of the brightest guys I've read in a long time... It mirrors a lot of your thoughts about quality over big...

OGILVY: TARNISHED – HOW THE STONEHAVEN CUP LOST ITS LUSTRE
By Geoff Ogilvy Nov 12 2018
https://www.golfaustralia.com.au/feature/ogilvy-tarnished-how-the-stonehaven-cup-lost-its-lustre-515337

It's always beggared belief, to me anyway, that no Aussie/NZ sponsor can pony up a couple of $MAussie to lift the prize money of the ANZ circuit - keep marginal players at home until they're ready for the world stage, even attract some decent golfers from other parts of the world who would find 15 weeks in ANZ attractive.

OK, I'll pour myself some Famous Grouse and tuck in to Mr Ogilvy (who I wish would do some broadcasting, instead, say, of Duval who has no SOH at all!).

Up to no 64 got into Dubai which gets Rocky a game and another payday.
When he first got his card he was just in as 116 good habit to have.

Kwini

I don't think golf is very well supported in Aus or NZ and probably isn't the most attractive option for sponsors looking to fund sports events. There is definitely a lot of money sloshing about in Aus so if anyone was interested there probably would be a few more pretty big golf tournaments down there.

McLaren wrote:Kwini

I don't think golf is very well supported in Aus or NZ and probably isn't the most attractive option for sponsors looking to fund sports events.  There is definitely a lot of money sloshing about in Aus so if anyone was interested there probably would be a few more pretty big golf tournaments down there.

Mac,
It wouldn't need much cash to elevate the State Opens, PGA events, NZ Open etc at least to web.com or Challenge Tour level for a short season. As the ET is seemingly intent on proving, you can't grow if you don't have a sound base, top down doesn't work in the long run.

robopz wrote:Kwini, that's exactly my point.  

It's like I was saying the last week or so, all these different moves with the Rolex series and the schedule reorganization And the membership policies... It all makes sense individually. But you put them all together in the REAL WORLD, and I think the potential negatives of unintended consequences are greater than the benefits.

An interesting read from Geoff Ogilvy on the Australian Open today.  How golf Australia is doing exactly the opposite things they need to be doing to restore the Australian Open to what it can be.  This is a tremendous read by one of the brightest guys I've read in a long time... It mirrors a lot of your thoughts about quality over big...

OGILVY: TARNISHED – HOW THE STONEHAVEN CUP LOST ITS LUSTRE
By Geoff Ogilvy Nov 12 2018
https://www.golfaustralia.com.au/feature/ogilvy-tarnished-how-the-stonehaven-cup-lost-its-lustre-515337

Thanks robo,
My brother is a long-time volunteer marshal at the Aussie Open every year, and I'm sure he'd add inter-State rivalry / inter-City (which perhaps Geoff hints at) to the list of "issues".
Geoff could start doing something, of course, by investing some of his own dosh, and that of his multi-millionaire generation, to the mix. PS: He also makes it sound as if he won a Buick Open; fake news!
Anyway, thought-provoking as always, just wish he'd commit to being part of the solution instead of writing nicely about the problem.

kwinigolfer wrote:

robopz wrote:Kwini, that's exactly my point.  

It's like I was saying the last week or so, all these different moves with the Rolex series and the schedule reorganization And the membership policies... It all makes sense individually. But you put them all together in the REAL WORLD, and I think the potential negatives of unintended consequences are greater than the benefits.

An interesting read from Geoff Ogilvy on the Australian Open today.  How golf Australia is doing exactly the opposite things they need to be doing to restore the Australian Open to what it can be.  This is a tremendous read by one of the brightest guys I've read in a long time... It mirrors a lot of your thoughts about quality over big...

OGILVY: TARNISHED – HOW THE STONEHAVEN CUP LOST ITS LUSTRE
By Geoff Ogilvy Nov 12 2018
https://www.golfaustralia.com.au/feature/ogilvy-tarnished-how-the-stonehaven-cup-lost-its-lustre-515337

Thanks robo,
My brother is a long-time volunteer marshal at the Aussie Open every year, and I'm sure he'd add inter-State rivalry / inter-City (which perhaps Geoff hints at) to the list of "issues".
Geoff could start doing something, of course, by investing some of his own dosh, and that of his multi-millionaire generation, to the mix. PS: He also makes it sound as if he won a Buick Open; fake news!
Anyway, thought-provoking as always, just wish he'd commit to being part of the solution instead of writing nicely about the problem.

Great article.

I think Ogilvy provides a lot of potential solutions, he's doing more than just complain about the problem. As a player it's really not down to him to do any more.

Fair enough ray, but the players could actually help a lot - and I think The Lakes this year is back-to-back with the WC in Melbourne. Would be nice if they could work together also.