Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

by beninho Sun 07 Jan 2018, 12:20 pm

First topic message reminder :

Stoke have spent 10 years in the premier league, they are bottom 3 and dumped out the cup by coventry. The perspy is that they are an established prem team, hughes has them shipping goals, not scoring and being certainties for relegation. They have spent big money on wimmer who has struggled, imbula who is out on loan and berahino who cant score, bojan is well paid and on the bench for alaves. Stoke fans have perspective, hughes had no clues. Surprised he stayed this long.

My family are potters!

by kwinigolfer Mon 22 Jan 2018, 2:52 pm

[quote="super_realist"]

Diggers wrote:
kwinigolfer wrote:Watford have a wet, windy night at Stoke next; hope they get thumped.
Watford change their manager at least every year anyway, just bringing the inevitable forward by a couple of months.
Yuuge game for Saints today . . . . . . . .

Garcia's CV is really pretty average. These are the kind of appointments that annoy me, surely you could take a punt on a British lower league manager. Even a recently retired player, say a Lampard, who has completed their badges.

An average CV should suit a truly average club. What do clubs like Watford, Stoke, West Brom, West Ham, Palace, Swansea etc expect from the Premier League? At the very best, their best realistic position is to be at the top bit of the lower third of the league. The hilarious thing is when such a manager comes in and says "We'll play the Watford way" eh? What is that? They should play whatever way ensures they don't get relegated.

Probably right that you should put a new, young inexperienced British manager in there (although they should really be down in League 1 or 2, rather than parachuting straight into the Premier, even with a crud team), rather than a foreign no mark, but then again, you'd be risking the wrath of Monty and Mac for being "racist".[/quot

There'll never be an order of upward mobility of British managers if overseas no-names keep getting appointed. Nothing against guys who have earned the appointment, but overseas managers typically bring in their own teams of (mostly) overseas coaches and British candidates get little opportunity to learn the trade.
super's "lower third of the league" is correct in sentiment but not in fact - it's more likely the lower 2/3 of the league.

On another note, celebrated the life of Jimmy Armfield by listening to an 80-minute BBC interview with him. Great stuff to get an honest perspective of football - he deserves a chapter in Arthur Hopcraft's brilliant "The Football Man".

by super_realist Mon 22 Jan 2018, 6:28 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:
super_realist wrote:
beninho wrote:I would be surprised if anyone would have an issue with it. Black people are black. Now if soneone said coloured, like some older people still do, that's wrong.

Nothing wrong with the term black for a black person, I was referring to the collective term "blacks". For example, if you said "see those blacks over there" you'd most likely get pulled up.
Rightly so, when you could say "See those people/guys/girls/whatever else over there". Where do you think you are? Pre-Apartheid South Africa? Like it or loathe it, you're asking for trouble using skin colour to delineate anyone these days. Sometimes I agree, it's OTT, but most of the time it probably isn't and there's no need to distinguish anyone based on the colour of their skin, whatever it is.

It wasn't me who said it, it was someone else.

Keeping it football, what an embarrassment for the SFA they couldn't get a washed up dipso to be their manager.

by McLaren Mon 22 Jan 2018, 7:17 pm

Super

Given the rate of manager sackings in the EPL that have been discussed above do you not think there is a chance that O'Niell is waiting to see if he can get a job there?

Not really sure why he would take on the Scotland job anyway.

by kwinigolfer Mon 22 Jan 2018, 7:22 pm

Mac,
He'd be delusional to think that. Perhaps the Championship . . . . . . . but that's just as much of a bloodbath. He needs a driver wherever he goes.

by super_realist Mon 22 Jan 2018, 7:34 pm

McLaren wrote:Super

Given the rate of manager sackings in the EPL that have been discussed above do you not think there is a chance that O'Niell is waiting to see if he can get a job there?

Not really sure why he would take on the Scotland job anyway.

Well, he lives in Edinburgh, played in Scotland, managed in Scotland and interviewed for the job. Realistically though, what sort of club could someone who's only managed Brechin City, Lucky Charms United and Norn Irn (with a pretty average results record) going to be offered?

by beninho Mon 22 Jan 2018, 8:07 pm

Why would O'Neill plump for scotland over norn iron.bit of a step down, when did the scots last make a finals?

He could get a championship job off the back of good work with a hone nation, worked for coleman, admittedly a Poopie team but a decent sized club.

Martin O'Neill could have got the stoke job.

by super_realist Mon 22 Jan 2018, 8:49 pm

beninho wrote:Why would O'Neill plump for scotland over norn iron.bit of a step down, when did the scots last make a finals?

He could get a championship job off the back of good work with a hone nation, worked for coleman, admittedly a Poopie team but a decent sized club.

Martin O'Neill could have got the stoke job.

It's pretty clear that there is a limit to what you can achieve with a team like NI. Getting to a finals is probably the best you could ever hope for. Scotland might be similar in terms of talent available, but there's a challenge there which he's achieved with Norn Irn that he's unlikely to better with them, so I'd have thought repeating that with Scotland's marginally better players might have been attractive, plus he could do it from his Edinburgh base instead of having to commute to the hellhole of Belfast every few weeks.

He's the sort of man I'd see managing the likes of Leeds, Millwall, Portsmouth, Plymouth or Forest, I doubt even condemned teams like Swansea would look at him.

by Diggers Mon 22 Jan 2018, 8:52 pm

There is some kind of clause saying if O'Neill goes to a Premiership club there is a penalty/buyout clause.
I'd say that he has done at least as good a job as Coleman in international terms, if you take into account the players he had available. Northern Ireland don't have anyone in Ramsey's class, let alone Bales.
I'd say a Championship club could do a lot worse, I'd certainly hold out for that over the Scotland job.

by pedro Mon 22 Jan 2018, 11:51 pm

Diggers wrote:
pedro wrote:
beninho wrote:Im todays world the term racist covers more than the literal meaning of racist. I think tarring all the people of a nation by classing the country a Poopie is a racist term, I don't care what the literal meaning of the word is, I think soneone who has openly supported white nationalists and racists calling generally black countries as Poopie and making claims about the people of those countries is a pretty racist claim. You have to look at the whole.

But each to their own interpretations.

It’s just that the word ‘racist’ is being waved at any given occasion. I remind that his daugther is jewish, so chances are that he’s probably not that fond of the neonazis marching in charlottesville. DT may (or may not) have dislike of certain nationalities or races, but isn’t prejudice a better word? A lot of people use terms like Frogs, Oirish, krauts, and of course the guardianistas never had a problem uttering their contempt for israelis. Not an excuse for DT being undiplomatic, just an objection to the word ‘racism’ being waved at nauseum, especially if you live in a glass house.

And FTR, unemployment and crime rates of 1st and 2nd generation immigrants from sh!thole countries in western europe are many times higher than of immigrants from other western countries. Racism? Or a fact you have to relate to?

Your last fact, when presented in isolation like that, is exactly the type of comment that leads to prejudice and creates a platform for racism. It's the type of statistic that Nigel Farage loves. Let's not look at any reasons why it happens (reduced access to higher education for example), let's just present it in a way that somehow these people are genetically somehow "less decent" than us good old white people.

Why do you think it is? Even in Scandinavia where the govt pays you to go to uni the stats aren’t any better. And why the difference btw let’s say Vietnamese and North Africans in terms of crime and unemployment rates? Isn’t it just so that people from some cultures generally assimilate better?

by SmithersJones Mon 22 Jan 2018, 11:55 pm

Which do you suggest has the higher crime rate, Vietnam or North Africa?

by super_realist Tue 23 Jan 2018, 7:50 am

Well done Kyle Edmund. I could make a joke about England football here, but I won't.

by beninho Tue 23 Jan 2018, 9:38 am

I'm not big on tennis, but what a great performance from Edmund.

by kwinigolfer Tue 23 Jan 2018, 1:23 pm

Looks like Everton are just about to get their hands on a player who'll give them much of what they've been missing - Seamus Coleman continuing his comeback.

Liverpool looked awful last night. Oodersfield next for them, then it's a Champions League placing six pointer vs Spurs.

by **navyblueshorts** Tue 23 Jan 2018, 2:48 pm

Typical Liverpool of recent vintage - beat the leaders and then lose to one in the basement. Not a strategy for winning the PL.

by Diggers Tue 23 Jan 2018, 7:13 pm

pedro wrote:
Diggers wrote:
pedro wrote:
beninho wrote:Im todays world the term racist covers more than the literal meaning of racist. I think tarring all the people of a nation by classing the country a Poopie is a racist term, I don't care what the literal meaning of the word is, I think soneone who has openly supported white nationalists and racists calling generally black countries as Poopie and making claims about the people of those countries is a pretty racist claim. You have to look at the whole.

But each to their own interpretations.

It’s just that the word ‘racist’ is being waved at any given occasion. I remind that his daugther is jewish, so chances are that he’s probably not that fond of the neonazis marching in charlottesville. DT may (or may not) have dislike of certain nationalities or races, but isn’t prejudice a better word? A lot of people use terms like Frogs, Oirish, krauts, and of course the guardianistas never had a problem uttering their contempt for israelis. Not an excuse for DT being undiplomatic, just an objection to the word ‘racism’ being waved at nauseum, especially if you live in a glass house.

And FTR, unemployment and crime rates of 1st and 2nd generation immigrants from sh!thole countries in western europe are many times higher than of immigrants from other western countries. Racism? Or a fact you have to relate to?

Your last fact, when presented in isolation like that, is exactly the type of comment that leads to prejudice and creates a platform for racism. It's the type of statistic that Nigel Farage loves. Let's not look at any reasons why it happens (reduced access to higher education for example), let's just present it in a way that somehow these people are genetically somehow "less decent" than us good old white people.
Why do you think it is? Even in Scandinavia where the govt pays you to go to uni the stats aren’t any better. And why the difference btw let’s say Vietnamese and North Africans in terms of crime and unemployment rates? Isn’t it just so that people from some cultures generally assimilate better?

So in the UK the new sub class, disenfranchised group is the working class British white male. They are increasingly unemployed and not succeeding in education. Are they failing to assimilate? Or are they simply a product of the environment they live in?

by super_realist Tue 23 Jan 2018, 7:17 pm

One day a part of our demographic will take responsibility for their own failings instead of always trying to blame someone else.

by kwinigolfer Tue 23 Jan 2018, 8:19 pm

Kind of ironic this:
US News & World Report reports the results from a survey that reckons:
Drumpf handily leads the World Leaders with a 58% disapproval rating, far ahead of Putin who comes second @ 44%.

And: The president's much admired Norway leads the World in "Citizenship", "defined as a country that cares about human rights, cares about the environment, gender equality, progressive, religious freedom, respects property rights, trustworthy and well-distributed political power".

Imagine the US comes close to last in most of these criteria, so Norwegians might be welcome here but would they fit in? Not likely!

Be careful what you wish for Donnie baby.

by Diggers Tue 23 Jan 2018, 8:33 pm

super_realist wrote:One day a part of our demographic will take responsibility for their own failings instead of always trying to blame someone else.

Says the middle class white boy...
Are you seriously suggesting life chances are the same for everyone? I'll mention that to the kids at school tomorrow, the ones who are in care due to neglect, or spend their life's in between parents. I know exactly who gets support with their home learning, it's not the free school meal kids.
And that's in a nice seaside town, let alone a crappy estate in an inner city.

by super_realist Tue 23 Jan 2018, 9:04 pm

Diggers, you haven't a clue what class I am or where I've come from.

Of course life chances aren't the same for everyone, but if everyone took a bit more personal responsibility instead of laying blame elsewhere (similar to what fat people often do) then they might do a bit better. Sadly it seems a popular refrain these days that it's always someone else's fault that they aren't doing well.

by Diggers Tue 23 Jan 2018, 9:13 pm

So enlighten me. What were your parents jobs?

by beninho Wed 24 Jan 2018, 6:55 am

Sweeping statement about people blaming everyone else. What nonsense. Anyway, I would also like to know your experiences to make up for those opinions. Diggers has said about working in a school, I work in homelessness and housing for a local authority.

All we know about you is your claim to live in a nice part of Edinburgh, have a good job, well paid, nice car, play golf on one of the best courses in the world, it would all indicate a very comfy middle class lifestyle. Is that wrong?

by super_realist Wed 24 Jan 2018, 8:03 am

I'm not saying that all people blame circumstances, but many certainly do.

Yes, Beninho, I do have all those things NOW, but that doesn't mean I always had them, I had to 100% finance myself through university, worked during that time, took out further loans and career development loans to do my Masters (only paid off my Student Loan about 5 years back) and have basically worked very hard indeed (with a bit of luck, i.e. picking the right sector) to get to where I am now. I've had to do crap jobs through my time as well as most people have and it's only in the last 7-8 years I've been able to enjoy the fruits of my endeavours. My background is definitely working class. Many of you lot will be better paid than me and have and have had a more comfortable life too.

I know plenty people who have come from a council estate background who are now doing very well. This assumption that if you come from a sink estate that you might as well give up because "you're a victim of your environment and it's the Governments fault" has to stop. No one owes you a living or a particular standard of living, you have to go out there and get it. Opportunities exist for those who can be bothered to go and find them and work for them.
This "it's hard being me" sob story is pathetic. There's always people who won't escape but nowhere near the number who use it as an excuse.

As for playing golf at one of the best courses in the world, it hardly requires a top job and comfortable middle class background. In my club, the % of people who are working class is well over 50%)
I could afford it stacking supermarket shelves like Mac. It is only £600 a year for me living outwith the area, but if I lived in NE Fife it would cost £300 for the Old, New, Jubilee, Eden, Castle and Strathtyrum and the 9 holer I've never played. (or if I lived in St.Andrews itself (yes there is peasant housing there) it would cost £100, so the very lowest person in society could afford it. Where I play golf is not an indication of what class I might come from.

by beninho Wed 24 Jan 2018, 8:24 am

"This assumption that if you come from a sink estate that you might as well give up because "you're a victim of your environment and it's the Governments fault" has to stop"

Is just as bad as the assumption

"but if everyone took a bit more personal responsibility instead of laying blame elsewhere (similar to what fat people often do) then they might do a bit better. Sadly it seems a popular refrain these days that it's always someone else's fault that they aren't doing well".

You cant just lump everyone under the same umbrella one way of the other. Some people will not try and make the most for themselves, some people are a victim of circumstance and are unable to make the best for themselves and do get stuck in the system, some people on council estates will get stuck in a cycle of drink and drugs, some people from comfortable backgrounds will get stuck in a cycle of drink and drugs, some people will have no chance in life based on their upbringing.

Everyone is different. Sweeping statements are daft.

by beninho Wed 24 Jan 2018, 8:26 am

But just to clarify, you are a middle class white guy? Though with working class roots.

by super_realist Wed 24 Jan 2018, 8:35 am

I'm not putting everyone under the same umbrella, and I've not made any sweeping statements, I'm saying that FAR TOO MANY people have an attitude that their situation is the result of somebody elses actions.

Yes, I am now a middle class white guy NOW I would say, so what? (I would Imagine that the vast majority of people on here fall into that bracket) I didn't blame anyone else when I was a working class white guy did I? I made the effort to get myself away from the low income position and limited prospects situation I had been in. I could have just blamed society and stayed earning a low income and living in cheap accommodation but I decided to use my initiative and a bit of drive and determination. Why can't more do that?

by beninho Wed 24 Jan 2018, 9:23 am

You've gone from everyone to far too many.

But again, "Why cant more do that?" you dont know how many can and do, you don't know how many cant due to their personal circumstances. Its another sweeping statement, with no real meaning.

by beninho Wed 24 Jan 2018, 9:25 am

Well done you anyway, you are clearly a credit to your family and the Scottish people.

by McLaren Wed 24 Jan 2018, 11:07 am

Super

You once mentioned on here what your parents did during a similar argument to this one and the jobs you said they did were middle class. I am not sure why you now claim you came from a working class background.

Your argument seems to boil down to one sentence you wrote above which was "Opportunities exist for those who can be bothered to go and find them and work for them".

How would you justify saying that opportunities exist for everyone regardless of background?

by McLaren Wed 24 Jan 2018, 12:36 pm

WTF is the Nations league?

by Davie Wed 24 Jan 2018, 1:16 pm

by beninho Wed 24 Jan 2018, 1:29 pm

http://www.letmegooglethat.com/?q=WTF+is+the+nations+league%3F

by JAS Wed 24 Jan 2018, 1:55 pm

super_realist wrote:I'm not putting everyone under the same umbrella, and I've not made any sweeping statements, I'm saying that FAR TOO MANY people have an attitude that their situation is the result of somebody elses actions.

Yes, I am now a middle class white guy NOW I would say, so what? (I would Imagine that the vast majority of people on here fall into that bracket) I didn't blame anyone else when I was a working class white guy did I? I made the effort to get myself away from the low income position and limited prospects situation I had been in. I could have just blamed society and stayed earning a low income and living in cheap accommodation but I decided to use my initiative and a bit of drive and determination. Why can't more do that?

Whats the transition criteria from working class to middle class? My upbringing was certainly working class, fairly low income parents, hard working dad and brought up on a council estate in an Ayrshire mining town. Yes I took my chances, worked out where I wanted to go, got a break or 2 and did it. I still think of myself as working class because thats me. I had aspirations to be able to live comfortably and provide as best I could for my family. I had no ambitions whatsoever to be "middle-class". Most people that know me and my income bracket would probably lump me into the middle class pigeon hole. I hate it, to me you're either working class or part of the elite. Middle class is a phrase coined by the elite to divide the working class masses and set them against each other.

"Why can't more do that??" Because the chances for others from such backgrounds (or indeed any background) to follow that path has been systematically eroded over the past 30 odd years. The rewards if you do make it may be larger but the chances of actually making it are much much smaller

by McLaren Wed 24 Jan 2018, 4:54 pm

Bit of rhetorical question there people.

by super_realist Wed 24 Jan 2018, 6:58 pm

McLaren wrote:Super

You once mentioned on here what your parents did during a similar argument to this one and the jobs you said they did were middle class. I am not sure why you now claim you came from a working class background.

Your argument seems to boil down to one sentence you wrote above which was "Opportunities exist for those who can be bothered to go and find them and work for them".

How would you justify saying that opportunities exist for everyone regardless of background?

Wrong Mac, I've never revealed what my parents did, feel free to prove it, however, even claiming to come from a working class background is a lot more revealing than anything you've ever divulged, you're too frightened to reveal what your MSc is in, what you do for a job and what country you claimed to have lived and worked in. Are you frightened that your background will expose you as not being a man of the people as you like to project yourself to be?

Tell me what opportunities don't exist for people, and please tell me how they are being "eroded"? More people go to University now than when I was that age.
Ok, so we don't send people into mines, or into unsafe steelworks or shipyards, but that's a good thing.

by McLaren Thu 25 Jan 2018, 11:45 am

Super

I guess your parents jobs must be like me living in Haymarket, so I won't discuss it further.

Although I can exclusively reveal I came from a middle class background. Probably at the lower end of the scale financially but culturally definitely middle class.

by JAS Thu 25 Jan 2018, 12:10 pm

I don’t think I said opportunities don’t exist, what I said was they’re being eroded. As you say more people a going to university than ever before and actually more people are in work than ever before. So to the naive, that sounds great...until you pull back the covers to find that wage inflation is stagnant and has been for a couple of decades. So most graduates are now coming out of uni drowning in debt and going into jobs where they stand a lesser chance of paying their debt off. The increase in employment has been predominantly in low paid jobs with little prospects. Globalisation has meant that big corporates have shifted more and more high paid high skilled jobs to low wage economies. It happens here with IT jobs going to the likes of Chennai & Bangalore. It happened in the US where much of Detroit motor manufacturing has shipped over the border to Mexico. It’s also happened to a lesser extent in Germany where some manafacturing has moved to Eastern Europe (German Unions managed to stem the flow a bit). So yes opportunities ARE being eroded by globalisation, the German workers recognise it and are fighting it (hence Merkels struggle to get re-elected). US workers recognise it and have consequently put their faith in a buffoon who also recognised it, empathised with them and lied that he could do something about it. Brits meanwhile read the Daily Mail and think everything will be ok if we Brexit to stop mass Immigration....it won’t, it really won’t.

by super_realist Thu 25 Jan 2018, 5:55 pm

McLaren wrote:Super

I guess your parents jobs must be like me living in Haymarket, so I won't discuss it further.

Although I can exclusively reveal I came from a middle class background. Probably at the lower end of the scale financially but culturally definitely middle class.

Too frightened to reveal it more like.

I remember you once saying you weren't proud of your job, which means it's either a crap job or it goes against your sensibilities. Why don't you put your MSc to better use and get a new job?

JAS, I think you're old enough to remember that there was never a time when everything was great, I'm sure you remember the 3 day week, constant strikes of the 80's, thousands of crap jobs in dying, outdated industries, putting people down mines, massive inflation etc, it's not like anyone saw year on year wage rises back then that kept pace with inflation, times were grim back then. I'd much rather be working now than back then.

by McLaren Thu 25 Jan 2018, 7:44 pm

Pretty much what I have always said about Carrick.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/jan/25/michael-carrick-liam-rosenior

by **navyblueshorts** Thu 25 Jan 2018, 9:19 pm

McLaren wrote:Pretty much what I have always said about Carrick.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/jan/25/michael-carrick-liam-rosenior

Good, yes. Great? No.

by Diggers Thu 25 Jan 2018, 9:27 pm

McLaren wrote:Pretty much what I have always said about Carrick.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/jan/25/michael-carrick-liam-rosenior

Clearly an excellent player, surprised he won so few caps. That said, I don't rate him as highly as you Mac. Far too passive for me, didn't really change a games tempo when needed and prone to suddenly look a lot less calm on the ball when playing against genuinely top class players...which is understandable. I'd have taken Xabi Alonso over him every time.

by super_realist Thu 25 Jan 2018, 9:42 pm

Pretty steady player, but nothing extraordinary.

by Diggers Thu 25 Jan 2018, 9:54 pm

The DM is very in vogue now. With the flexible systems they play now we'd see Carrick and two of Lampard, Gerrard and Scholes play together a lot more.

by beninho Thu 25 Jan 2018, 10:26 pm

Carrick is/ was good, but in an era of sergio busquets one of the best ever defensive midfielders he doesn't stand as anything special. Remember the look on him wgen he was subbed in a champions league final after being twisted inside out by xavi iniesta and busquets.

by Roller_Coaster Fri 26 Jan 2018, 9:09 am

Yeah, but to be fair I think there were 10 candidates for being subbed against what I think Ferguson dubbed "the carousel" of Barcelona at pretty much their peak.

I like(d) Carrick, a very, very good player. Happened to switch on a 5 live interview with him one day. Sounded really down to earth and grounded. Still hangs around with his mates from school. Also admitted "hating" the likes of Gerard when they were playing as they were opposition, even at national get togethers (what Super might refer to as their pre holiday kickabouts every couple of Junes) where they were (are) all wary of club rivalries and not giving away anything that might impact club matches.

by JAS Fri 26 Jan 2018, 11:51 am

super_realist wrote:
McLaren wrote:Super

I guess your parents jobs must be like me living in Haymarket, so I won't discuss it further.

Although I can exclusively reveal I came from a middle class background. Probably at the lower end of the scale financially but culturally definitely middle class.

Too frightened to reveal it more like.

I remember you once saying you weren't proud of your job, which means it's either a crap job or it goes against your sensibilities. Why don't you put your MSc to better use and get a new job?

JAS, I think you're old enough to remember that there was never a time when everything was great, I'm sure you remember the 3 day week, constant strikes of the 80's, thousands of crap jobs in dying, outdated industries, putting people down mines, massive inflation etc, it's not like anyone saw year on year wage rises back then that kept pace with inflation, times were grim back then. I'd much rather be working now than back then.

Yes funnily enough I do remember the 3 day week, I was at primary school when Heath introduced it. Also the strikes were predominantly in the 70s, The 80s were more characterised by mass unemployment which was inevitable once union power was crushed (well I say inevitable - had we had a pragmatic Govt in the early 80s rather than an ideological right wing zealot things may have worked out quite a bit different).
With regard to inflation, it was damaging long term yes but in the short term as long as wages kept pace workers were ok.
The differences between the 70s and now is that income inequality has taken off exponentially and debt (both private and public) has taken off with it. Homelessness has pretty much followed the same trajectory. So...overall (after acquiescing to economists views of let’s kill inflation) nearly 40 years on, is society as a whole a better place??

by pedro Fri 26 Jan 2018, 1:10 pm

Funny there is such a big focus on inequality when focus should be on poverty. Just an observation.

by kwinigolfer Fri 26 Jan 2018, 1:20 pm

pedro wrote:Funny there is such a big focus on inequality when focus should be on poverty. Just an observation.

To which I would observe, in the US at any rate, that elected officials in certain States are elected to look after the selfish interests of their base and keep the poor poor, and the wealthy wealthier. Which is why most of the States with Republican Governors are the States at the bottom of the education charts, the life expectancy charts, virtually any cultural criteria. Which helps explain all the pushback against the ACA, for instance.

by pedro Fri 26 Jan 2018, 1:30 pm

kwinigolfer wrote:
pedro wrote:Funny there is such a big focus on inequality when focus should be on poverty. Just an observation.

To which I would observe, in the US at any rate, that elected officials in certain States are elected to look after the selfish interests of their base and keep the poor poor, and the wealthy wealthier. Which is why most of the States with Republican Governors are the States at the bottom of the education charts, the life expectancy charts, virtually any cultural criteria. Which helps explain all the pushback against the ACA, for instance.

Didn't quite understand all that. But one should think there'd be a limit to how conspiratorial it can get if bad guys keep getting >50% of the vote?

by kwinigolfer Fri 26 Jan 2018, 1:44 pm

Ah, That's where you have to look at whites voting against their self-interest (pro guns, anti blacks/hispanics, no-new-tax rhetoric etc), and widespread voter suppression in the poorest districts.
It doesn't explain everything (we've got a Republican governor for instance - but a heavily Dem/Prog legislature) but some of the stats are so bad you couldn't make them up.

by JAS Fri 26 Jan 2018, 1:47 pm

pedro wrote:Funny there is such a big focus on inequality when focus should be on poverty. Just an observation.

If you address income inequality then by default you will effectively be addressing poverty.

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