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Post by beninho on Sun 07 Jan 2018, 12:20 pm

First topic message reminder :

Stoke have spent 10 years in the premier league, they are bottom 3 and dumped out the cup by coventry. The perspy is that they are an established prem team, hughes has them shipping goals, not scoring and being certainties for relegation. They have spent big money on wimmer who has struggled, imbula who is out on loan and berahino who cant score, bojan is well paid and on the bench for alaves. Stoke fans have perspective, hughes had no clues. Surprised he stayed this long.

My family are potters!

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Post by Diggers on Mon 12 Mar 2018, 6:52 pm

Diggers wrote:
raycastleunited wrote:
kwinigolfer wrote:Sorry to read of Roger Bannister's death; given his entire body of work, would think he must rank pretty high in any list of top ten Britons of the post WWII era.

I assume you mean top ten for his medical contributions?

As an athlete his career wasn't particularly remarkable... held a world record for 6 weeks at a time when athletics wasn't particularly competitive. that record has since been completely annihilated by modern athletes. Won a single gold at the European championships, no world or Olympic titles.

Came across as an absolute gentleman however, and a great role model.
Bit harsh I'd say Ray. Also won a Commonwealth and Empire gold when that was a bigger deal. The European Champs were a much bigger deal then as well. Only one Olympic chance where he finished 4th as he retired before 56 to focus on medicine. They didn't have world champs back then so the global title chance was really that one race. He was considered to be the main man for a while, sure he was no Seb Coe but he was a very, very good athlete.

One fact about I've recently heard about Bannister though, considering the current cycling issues, the first attempt he made on the mile world record involved using lapped runners as pacemakers. A past example of someone operating inside the laws of the sport but outside the spirit as it was deemed then.
The Good Old Days aren’t always quite what we remember (are told) they were!

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Post by kwinigolfer on Mon 12 Mar 2018, 7:09 pm

Diggers wrote:
Diggers wrote:
raycastleunited wrote:
kwinigolfer wrote:Sorry to read of Roger Bannister's death; given his entire body of work, would think he must rank pretty high in any list of top ten Britons of the post WWII era.

I assume you mean top ten for his medical contributions?

As an athlete his career wasn't particularly remarkable... held a world record for 6 weeks at a time when athletics wasn't particularly competitive. that record has since been completely annihilated by modern athletes. Won a single gold at the European championships, no world or Olympic titles.

Came across as an absolute gentleman however, and a great role model.
Bit harsh I'd say Ray. Also won a Commonwealth and Empire gold when that was a bigger deal. The European Champs were a much bigger deal then as well. Only one Olympic chance where he finished 4th as he retired before 56 to focus on medicine. They didn't have world champs back then so the global title chance was really that one race. He was considered to be the main man for a while, sure he was no Seb Coe but he was a very, very good athlete.

One fact about I've recently heard about Bannister though, considering the current cycling issues, the first attempt he made on the mile world record involved using lapped runners as pacemakers. A past example of someone operating inside the laws of the sport but outside the spirit as it was deemed then.
The Good Old Days aren’t always quite what we remember (are told) they were!


Digs, That almost defies arithmetic credulity - possible in a 10K perhaps, but lapped runners in a mile Whistle going fast enough to pick up the pacing duties? I don't think so. Though he DID have CB & CC pacing him, not lapped though, and they were stars of the day themselves.

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Post by super_realist on Mon 12 Mar 2018, 7:15 pm

Very true Mac. There is never a reason to spit, unless you inhale a bee or something like that. Spitting is never required, even on a football pitch.

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Post by Diggers on Mon 12 Mar 2018, 7:16 pm

kwinigolfer wrote:
Diggers wrote:
Diggers wrote:
raycastleunited wrote:
kwinigolfer wrote:Sorry to read of Roger Bannister's death; given his entire body of work, would think he must rank pretty high in any list of top ten Britons of the post WWII era.

I assume you mean top ten for his medical contributions?

As an athlete his career wasn't particularly remarkable... held a world record for 6 weeks at a time when athletics wasn't particularly competitive. that record has since been completely annihilated by modern athletes. Won a single gold at the European championships, no world or Olympic titles.

Came across as an absolute gentleman however, and a great role model.
Bit harsh I'd say Ray. Also won a Commonwealth and Empire gold when that was a bigger deal. The European Champs were a much bigger deal then as well. Only one Olympic chance where he finished 4th as he retired before 56 to focus on medicine. They didn't have world champs back then so the global title chance was really that one race. He was considered to be the main man for a while, sure he was no Seb Coe but he was a very, very good athlete.

One fact about I've recently heard about Bannister though, considering the current cycling issues, the first attempt he made on the mile world record involved using lapped runners as pacemakers. A past example of someone operating inside the laws of the sport but outside the spirit as it was deemed then.
The Good Old Days aren’t always quite what we remember (are told) they were!


Digs, That almost defies arithmetic credulity - possible in a 10K perhaps, but lapped runners in a mile  Whistle  going fast enough to pick up the pacing duties? I don't think so. Though he DID have CB & CC pacing him, not lapped though, and they were stars of the day themselves.

It happened, not in the actual record breaking race, it's the fact that there shouldn't have been lapped runners that was the issue, as Bannister admitted.

On 27 June, a mile race was inserted into the programme of the Surrey schools athletic meeting. Australian runner Don Macmillan, ninth in the 1500 m at the 1952 Olympics, set a strong pace with 59.6 and 1:59.7 for two laps. He gave up after two and a half laps, but Chris Brasher took up the pace. Brasher had jogged the race, allowing Bannister to lap him so he could be a fresh pace-setter. At ¾ mile, Bannister was at 3:01.8, the record—and first sub-four-minute mile—in reach. But the effort fell short with a finish in 4:02.0, a time bettered by only Andersson and Hägg.[14] British officials would not allow this performance to stand as a British record, which, Bannister felt in retrospect, was a good decision. "My feeling as I look back is one of great relief that I did not run a four-minute mile under such artificial circumstances," he said.[14]

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Post by pedro on Mon 12 Mar 2018, 7:48 pm

McLaren wrote:
super_realist wrote:What on earth was Jamie Carragher thinking about? Footballers really can be the worst of us.

Also was he saving up saliva for such and event because it looks like he spits half a glass of water over them?  What an arse hole.
Even Frank Rijkaard was impressed by that gob.

With that being said, I don’t think it should’ve been made an issue that he hit the daughter with his gob. Obviously it’s not ok what Carragher did, with the sort of money he gets he ought to cope with that kind of Poopie, but the serious issue here is the reckless driving and general braindead behaviour of a father while his young daughter was sitting next to him.

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Post by super_realist on Mon 12 Mar 2018, 7:54 pm

It's a fair point regarding the guy recording it
What has to stop though is whenever does anything wrong there's a armchair jury clambering for them to be sacked.

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Post by pedro on Mon 12 Mar 2018, 8:20 pm

Carragher probably loses his job and a Poopie of money. So be it. If you’re in the media you can hardly fart without being crucified afterwards.

But I would love if the police stepped in and took the father to court for reckless driving.

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Post by Davie on Mon 12 Mar 2018, 8:52 pm

The father should get his 6 points or whatever it is - but the video seemed to show they were in slow moving or stationary traffic. Illegal but hardly reckless. 6 points for the father and a P45 for Jamie

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Post by Diggers on Mon 12 Mar 2018, 9:04 pm

Can't see that Carragher needs the money, must be worth a fortune anyway. Suspect we might see him move into management/coaching now, a bit of flobbing won't stop a club employing him if they think he'll do a decent job.

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Post by super_realist on Mon 12 Mar 2018, 9:09 pm

I wouldn't object to him becoming a Golf pundit, then when someone moronic Yank shouts "Mashed Potato" he can gob some sputum in their faces.

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Post by kwinigolfer on Mon 12 Mar 2018, 9:12 pm

He could go and manage Southampton - Pelegrino out, 30 games too late.

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Post by raycastleunited on Tue 13 Mar 2018, 10:42 am

kwinigolfer wrote:He could go and manage Southampton - Pelegrino out, 30 games too late.

I watched Soton on MOTD on saturday night and they were truly dreadful against Newcastle. No imagination, no confidence, no movement, no effort, no desire, no pride. This was a team ready to lose all 8 of its remaining fixtures. Board had to do something... probably should have changed the manager in January.

To be fair, some of the players should be sacked or sent to the reserves too.

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Post by navyblueshorts on Tue 13 Mar 2018, 10:53 am

Who gives a xxxx if Caragher gobbed in the direction of a moron and his daughter, while being wound up on the road? Is there even actual evidence the daughter got any saliva on her?
We've got another State releasing state-of-the-art nerve agents in public and people think Caragher gobbing is of any issue, at all? FFS!
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Post by pedro on Tue 13 Mar 2018, 1:02 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:
We've got another State releasing state-of-the-art nerve agents in public and people think Caragher gobbing is of any issue, at all? FFS!
I say we boycott the world cup. Will also save us the humiliation of being sent home after 3 games. It's a win win.

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Post by JAS on Tue 13 Mar 2018, 1:04 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:Who gives a xxxx if Caragher gobbed in the direction of a moron and his daughter, while being wound up on the road? Is there even actual evidence the daughter got any saliva on her?
We've got another State releasing state-of-the-art nerve agents in public and people think Caragher gobbing is of any issue, at all? FFS!

The daughter...and probably her mum??

Regarding paragraph 2...absolutely bang on the money Navy. The media in this country needs to take a serious look at itself, yes the Salisbury incident is alarming & complex in terms of how the country should deal with it. They’re fiddling around the edges of the issues (maybe not through choice) but just to distract us as well, they bring a bloke spitting from a car toward somebody else is the number 2 news story of the day, give me strength.

Actually Tillerson’s just been sacked by Trump, that should leap in near the top of today’s news.

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Post by pedro on Tue 13 Mar 2018, 1:21 pm

And the misogynist appointed a woman as new CIA director.

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Post by kwinigolfer on Tue 13 Mar 2018, 4:51 pm

pedro wrote:And the misogynist appointed a woman as new CIA director.

A mistress of the art of waterboarding so that's OK.

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Post by navyblueshorts on Wed 14 Mar 2018, 9:08 am

kwinigolfer wrote:
pedro wrote:And the misogynist appointed a woman as new CIA director.

A mistress of the art of waterboarding so that's OK.
So what should be said is 'Lock her up!' eh? Instead of 'Would you like to be the new Director of the CIA?' The Trump Government is a blinding play by Putin et al...
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Post by super_realist on Wed 14 Mar 2018, 6:30 pm

Corbyn being a c word again. Surprise surprise. Why do people think this anus should be Prime Minister?

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Post by Diggers on Wed 14 Mar 2018, 6:37 pm

I'd take him over the current incumbent in a heartbeat.

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Post by super_realist on Wed 14 Mar 2018, 6:43 pm

Really? You'd like to live in a place like Venezuela? You'd like Corbyn to determine what is allowed in the news? The Tory's might not be great, but a Corbyn led socialist government would be a disaster.

Cannot stand John McDonald either. The only time a Labour politician makes a joke is to say it would be funny to lynch a Tory. Disgraceful behaviour for a politician.

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Post by Diggers on Wed 14 Mar 2018, 6:55 pm

Funnily enough, I don't see any of what you see happening. I do see every area of social services in crisis and under funded.
That's why. But each to their own.

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Post by Diggers on Wed 14 Mar 2018, 6:59 pm

And McDonald is easily my favourite politician. Dare I say, to use one of your favourite lines, smacks of being faux offended on behalf of Tory MP's.

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Post by super_realist on Wed 14 Mar 2018, 7:04 pm

I agree, there's a great deal wrong with social services and a lack of funding. I've not seen anything from Labour which shows they have the means to do anything about it.
I'd love to see a better NHS, education etc, but I don't think anything Labour have said convinces me they can do it, they seem to take the Lib Dem view of saying what they like, content in the knowledge they won't have to follow it through.

I'm certainly not defending the Tories, but would you really want a man in power who would have Idi Amin's stunt double, Dianne Abbot in the cabinet?

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Post by Diggers on Wed 14 Mar 2018, 7:08 pm

In a word, yes.

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Post by super_realist on Wed 14 Mar 2018, 7:10 pm

Be careful what you wish for.

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Post by Diggers on Wed 14 Mar 2018, 7:11 pm

Be careful of accepting what you have.

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Post by super_realist on Wed 14 Mar 2018, 7:14 pm

I don't accept what we have. I just don't think Labour would be any sort of improvement.

Going back to Corbyn, it doesn't seem to me he genuinely wants to be PM.

Up here I think it's a genuine disgrace that I'm given free prescription and free eye check ups. I'm not even given the option of whether I want to pay. I'd happily put a bit more into NHS coffers, but the SNP government doesn't let me.

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Post by Diggers on Wed 14 Mar 2018, 7:19 pm

Yeah, there may be some truth in that, it's a thankless task. To be honest, taking over in the middle of the complete hash that is Brexit would be a bad choice. And as the Tories caused it (idiotic calling of a referendum to serve own purposes) they deserve to suffer the consequences.
It does amaze me, that as far as I can see, we are no closer to a deal that a year ago. I actually don't believe the Tories want a deal anymore. If that happens we'll have Venezuela's economy anyway.

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Post by super_realist on Wed 14 Mar 2018, 7:26 pm

Still, at least we're not America.

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Post by pedro on Thu 15 Mar 2018, 12:07 am

If only we could have Venezuelas climate and women.

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Post by pedro on Thu 15 Mar 2018, 12:18 am

“Ministers and the Royal Family boycotting the Fifa World Cup in Russia later this year...”

Why ministers in plural? Why would more than one have gone there?

With regards to the Royal family I’m sure they’d have asked to be excused from the humuliation of watching England anyway.

So Vladimir will hardly lose sleep over this.

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Post by beninho on Thu 15 Mar 2018, 8:05 am

I'm not hard left, maybe just left of centre so I'm not a massive corbyn fan, but I would much rather have him in charge then the current lot.

The problem he has is the constant scaremongering from the right wing has had an impact, on this board we have people talking about turning into Venezuela. People believing the scare stories mean that the country will remain screwed by this government for years to come.

I've looked at what you said about not paying for prescriptions etc in scotland, but I've found this for you instead
http://www.nhslothian.scot.nhs.uk/WorkingWithUs/GetInvolved/Pages/Donate.aspx
My Scottish geography isnt great so may have the wrong trust but im sure you can find one that matches where you are.

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Post by super_realist on Thu 15 Mar 2018, 8:38 am

I'd be much more happy with a centre leftist than a militant commie like Corbyn. He's simply got too many dodgy stories about who he has supported politically in the past and to give Idi Amin a cabinet post would be catastrophic.

Cheers for the NHS link. Shame I need it in the first place though. The question is, will it be just like every other charity where the NHS will see about 10% of my hard earned?

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Post by raycastleunited on Thu 15 Mar 2018, 1:16 pm

Diggers wrote:In a word, yes.

In a word, Diane Abbott can't add up

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Post by Diggers on Thu 15 Mar 2018, 6:10 pm

HSBC gender pay gap, 60%. There really is very little to like about banks. Makes me laugh that the BBC got mullered for a 9% gap, when actually they are the one body that seems to be trying to implement real change.


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Post by Diggers on Thu 15 Mar 2018, 6:15 pm

raycastleunited wrote:
Diggers wrote:In a word, yes.

In a word, Diane Abbott can't add up

Go and have a look at the Tory election pledge for free school breakfasts and look at the maths for that, utterly ludicrous. I doubt there is a single politician you couldn't hammer for screwing up on data.
I'm not a particular fan, though I did see her speak live a few months ago at Any Questions and she was very good, but it does seem she gets hammered more than anyone else.

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Post by super_realist on Thu 15 Mar 2018, 6:46 pm

raycastleunited wrote:
Diggers wrote:In a word, yes.

In a word, Diane Abbott can't add up

It's not that she can't add up, it's that she's completely inarticulate and does nothing but embarrass herself and her party when she comes out with her hairbrained, oft racist , inaccurate, diatribe.
She is so stupid she makes Russell Brand look like a competent Question Time panellist, and that's saying something.

At best she should be very much a back bench MP who does nothing apart from raising concern about the increase in dog mess left on the street in her constituency. She has no business talking about anything to do with how the country is run on a ministerial level whatsoever.

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Post by super_realist on Thu 15 Mar 2018, 6:49 pm

Diggers wrote:HSBC gender  pay gap, 60%. There really is very little to like about banks. Makes me laugh that the BBC got mullered for a 9% gap, when actually they are the one body that seems to be trying to implement real change.


I think gender pay gap is a little like the Global Warming/Climate Change debate. People conflate the two all the time.
A gender pay gap doesn't necessarily mean that a woman gets paid less for doing the same job. It can mean that more men are in more senior, better paid positions, which can happen for a number of reasons. Doesn't make it right, but it's not always so black and white.

BBC are also a public body, HSBC are not.

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Post by Diggers on Thu 15 Mar 2018, 6:59 pm

super_realist wrote:
Diggers wrote:HSBC gender  pay gap, 60%. There really is very little to like about banks. Makes me laugh that the BBC got mullered for a 9% gap, when actually they are the one body that seems to be trying to implement real change.


I think gender pay gap is a little like the Global Warming/Climate Change debate. People conflate the two all the time.
A gender pay gap doesn't necessarily mean that a woman gets paid less for doing the same job. It can mean that more men are in more senior, better paid positions, which can happen for a number of reasons. Doesn't make it right, but it's not always so black and white.

BBC are also a public body, HSBC are not.

True, and sometimes it's just blatantly obvious that there are gender pay inequalities. Fail to see your point the public and private sector, other that the public sector clearly is doing a better job.

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Post by super_realist on Thu 15 Mar 2018, 7:03 pm

Depends on where and why the gender pay is there doesn't it? Private companies are not in a position where they have to explain it, public companies are under far more pressure.

I'm sure we can all think of reasons as to why a company might have a higher number of males in more senior positions.

Maybe we need the Norwegian model where can see what everyone earns.

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Post by Diggers on Thu 15 Mar 2018, 7:41 pm

They do have to explain it, that's the whole point. Do you think they'd be disclosing the information otherwise. Private and public decor are subject to the same equal right pay legislation as far as Im aware.
I like the idea of the Norway model, I think we are heading in that direction.

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Post by super_realist on Thu 15 Mar 2018, 8:58 pm

We don't know if it's happened through discrimination. It isn't law you have to have 50/50 if you can explain why there is a skew. They could simply say it happened in a natural way through societal "norms" of men having particular jobs.

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Post by Diggers on Thu 15 Mar 2018, 10:07 pm

I really dont think that kind of limp will wash for much longer.

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Post by super_realist on Fri 16 Mar 2018, 7:53 am

There's perfectly good reasons for there to be a pay disparity at many companies though, that's the point.

However, there's no excuse for women doing the same job (with the same level of experience) to be paid less though, I appreciate that.

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Post by pedro on Fri 16 Mar 2018, 10:57 am

Funny how English players are now the worst (best?) divers in Europe. Ironic that Welbecks dive last night was against an Italian team. Shocking that it all happned just in front of the the assistant referee. Don't understand why this problem isn't addressed more seriously by UEFA. IMO it should be Farewelbeck.

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Post by JAS on Fri 16 Mar 2018, 11:10 am

super_realist wrote:I'd be much more happy with a centre leftist than a militant commie like Corbyn. There are simply too many dodgy stories about who he has supported politically in the past by the right wing rags that I'm making a judgement that at least some it must be true and to give Idi Amin a cabinet post would be catastrophic.

Cheers for the NHS link. Shame I need it in the first place though. The question is, will it be just like every other charity where the NHS will see about 10% of my hard earned?

Fixed the first part for you. All things considered I'm all over the place on the right/left spectrum depending on the subject. But the longer this shower drift on with their media assisted character assassination of Corbyn, the further left I drift on all subjects. That being said I'd agree on Abbot who is pretty much Labour's biggest electoral liability. A great constituency MP with a huge majority but simply NOT Front Bench material.

I do find it quite odd that the same people who condemn Blair for wading into Iraq based on "flimsy" evidence now condemn Corbyn as traitorous for wanting to make certain of evidence before wading into a new cold war. Those people can't have it both ways.

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Post by Diggers on Fri 16 Mar 2018, 11:23 am

super_realist wrote:There's perfectly good reasons for there to be a pay disparity at many companies though, that's the point.

However, there's no excuse for women doing the same job (with the same level of experience) to be paid less though, I appreciate that.

There are reasons, I don't agree they are good though. For example the fact that more men are in management positions is a reason for the average, that's not a good reason, it highlights a promotion inequality.
Even in my position I see it, primary education, a place for women to flourish you'd think. Nope. Most of the heads and deputies are men. Appointed by school governors who in the main are...yep, men. I've been made a head of year inside on 3 years of qualifying and my head wants to fast track me to be a deputy. Guess what, my head is male, the head governor is male. I'm pretty good at my job but can't really see that I'm better than others they are not considering and I'm far from unique. It's happened to a lot of my male friends.
I saw the same thing happen in both the media and travel industries. I've repeatedly seen women forced out of jobs when on maternity leave, even though this isn't even legal there was a financial incentive to take it or leave it.
I don't need a report to tell me women don't have equal rights in the workplace, I've seen it with my own eyes for 30 years. The fact that every shred of data (and this is just the start) backs it up comes as no great surprise.

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Post by pedro on Fri 16 Mar 2018, 12:03 pm

JAS wrote:
super_realist wrote:I'd be much more happy with a centre leftist than a militant commie like Corbyn. There are simply too many dodgy stories about who he has supported politically in the past by the right wing rags that I'm making a judgement that at least some it must be true and to give Idi Amin a cabinet post would be catastrophic.

Cheers for the NHS link. Shame I need it in the first place though. The question is, will it be just like every other charity where the NHS will see about 10% of my hard earned?

Fixed the first part for you. All things considered I'm all over the place on the right/left spectrum depending on the subject. But the longer this shower drift on with their media assisted character assassination of Corbyn, the further left I drift on all subjects. That being said I'd agree on Abbot who is pretty much Labour's biggest electoral liability. A great constituency MP with a huge majority but simply NOT Front Bench material.

I do find it quite odd that the same people who condemn Blair for wading into Iraq based on "flimsy" evidence now condemn Corbyn as traitorous for wanting to make certain of evidence before wading into a new cold war. Those people can't have it both ways.
I completely agree with Corbyn re. the Russia thing. He may be a commie, but he's assesssment is correct. It's like the West absolutely wants and needs an enemy. Russia here, Russia there, Russia everywhere. God dammit, people are obsessed with Russia. If the poison used is only produced in Russia it is either a) pretty obvious Russia wants to send a signal - which they of course know, or b) a conspiracy towards Russia. Regardless it was pretty toe wrenching to hear May last week accuse Russia of potentially "allowing" the poison to be stolen (that is if they didn't do it themselves). Like May has any control of what is stolen from UK labs or even smuggled into/out of the UK?

I admit that it is very likely that it is a deliberate action by the Russia intelligence agency (option a)) and they do it to send a signal to defectors and/or provoke the UK. But I think the West needs to sit back and figure out how to handle Russia in the broader picture. For sure Uncle Vladimir is sitting back in Kreml grinning over the UK/West not knowing what to make on themselves. Again.

But my point is: Why escalate the whole thing and potentially start a new cold war? Why not talk to the man? Like DT now wants to talk to Little Rocket Man. Why risk military confrontation just beacuse we are dealing wilth bullies/big egos/provocateurs. It's not worth it. Russia does not pose a defacto military threat to Europe, as they would be pretty stupid to engage with Nato.
In this context it's ironic also that the European (and American) Political Correctness, those who made a career out of advocating "dialogue", are now among the most sabre rattling of the bunch. Funny how things change.

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Post by Diggers on Fri 16 Mar 2018, 12:11 pm

pedro wrote:
JAS wrote:
super_realist wrote:I'd be much more happy with a centre leftist than a militant commie like Corbyn. There are simply too many dodgy stories about who he has supported politically in the past by the right wing rags that I'm making a judgement that at least some it must be true and to give Idi Amin a cabinet post would be catastrophic.

Cheers for the NHS link. Shame I need it in the first place though. The question is, will it be just like every other charity where the NHS will see about 10% of my hard earned?

Fixed the first part for you. All things considered I'm all over the place on the right/left spectrum depending on the subject. But the longer this shower drift on with their media assisted character assassination of Corbyn, the further left I drift on all subjects. That being said I'd agree on Abbot who is pretty much Labour's biggest electoral liability. A great constituency MP with a huge majority but simply NOT Front Bench material.

I do find it quite odd that the same people who condemn Blair for wading into Iraq based on "flimsy" evidence now condemn Corbyn as traitorous for wanting to make certain of evidence before wading into a new cold war. Those people can't have it both ways.
I completely agree with Corbyn re. the Russia thing. He may be a commie, but he's assesssment is correct. It's like the West absolutely wants and needs an enemy. Russia here, Russia there, Russia everywhere. God dammit, people are obsessed with Russia. If the poison used is only produced in Russia it is either a) pretty obvious Russia wants to send a signal - which they of course know, or b) a conspiracy towards Russia. Regardless it was pretty toe wrenching to hear May last week accuse Russia of potentially "allowing" the poison to be stolen (that is if they didn't do it themselves). Like May has any control of what is stolen from UK labs or even smuggled into/out of the UK?

I admit that it is very likely that it is a deliberate action by the Russia intelligence agency (option a)) and they do it to send a signal to defectors and/or provoke the UK. But I think the West needs to sit back and figure out how to handle Russia in the broader picture. For sure Uncle Vladimir is sitting back in Kreml grinning over the UK/West not knowing what to make on themselves. Again.

But my point is: Why escalate the whole thing and potentially start a new cold war? Why not talk to the man? Like DT now wants to talk to Little Rocket Man. Why risk military confrontation just beacuse we are dealing wilth bullies/big egos/provocateurs. It's not worth it. Russia does not pose a defacto military threat to Europe, as they would be pretty stupid to engage with Nato.
In this context it's ironic also that the European (and American) Political Correctness, those who made a career out of advocating "dialogue", are now among the most sabre rattling of the bunch. Funny how things change.

I've no problem with any of that, I think the big problem is that VP is not what you'd call a great listener. For him, it's all about brinkmanship, how far can he push the envelope. Seems like the answer to that is as far as he wants, I'm not really sure what the west thinks it can do about it.

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