Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

[beninho]

First topic message reminder :

Stoke have spent 10 years in the premier league, they are bottom 3 and dumped out the cup by coventry. The perspy is that they are an established prem team, hughes has them shipping goals, not scoring and being certainties for relegation. They have spent big money on wimmer who has struggled, imbula who is out on loan and berahino who cant score, bojan is well paid and on the bench for alaves. Stoke fans have perspective, hughes had no clues. Surprised he stayed this long.

My family are potters!

[wiretapper]

Football in general is becoming more and more uneven and as more new fans from emerging nations (or markets as I am sure they are known in the corridors of power) like the USA, China, and India choose big established teams as their favourite it is in the interests of the powers at be to keep these teams at the top and these new fans interested.

FFP for example is designed for this very reason.

As for the BPL this year every team below Burnley, and arguably a couple above them, has had a poor season with the possible exception of Bournemouth. Huddersfield did very well to stay up but let's be honest, they offered nothing to the league.

[pedro]

In any given season you can always say there'd be at least 10-12 teams who wouldn't have a chinaman's chance of winning the league. Or even come close. But you can say that for any league. At least it's not as lopsided as the German, Spanish or even Italian leagues. And I won't even mention other leagues.
But money aside I agree it would make sense to reduce the EPL (and La Liga and Seria A) to 18 teams. The Bundesliga is already at 18 teams, but you could also reduce that further IMO.

[pedro]

Football in general is becoming more and more uneven and as more new fans from emerging nations (or markets as I am sure they are known in the corridors of power) like the USA, China, and India choose big established teams as their favourite it is in the interests of the powers at be to keep these teams at the top and these new fans interested.

When I was a kid Chelsea was not a big team/club. Only from the mid-90's and on it became big, incl. in Asia etc. They came from nowhere, and with a combination of money, good results and good PR made it what it is today. You can't blame Chelsea for that, they were just "first movers" or "disrupters" as you would say today.

[raycastleunited]

As for the BPL this year every team below Burnley, and arguably a couple above them, has had a poor season with the possible exception of Bournemouth. Huddersfield did very well to stay up but let's be honest, they offered nothing to the league.

This comment is just nuts.

Firstly, what is the BPL? A league of teams beginning with B? Because yes Burnley won that league, and Bournemouth and Brighton qualified for the CL. But it's not very competitive.

How can you say every team below Burnley had a poor season? Newcastle finishing 10th is a great result for a promoted club, especially given cost pressures and stability. Brighton and Huddersfield also stayed up which is probably all they wanted to achieve. Palace finishing 11th is a success story after their wretched start, Watford and Bournemouth are probably also satisfied.

[wiretapper]

Hi Ray,

I was referring to the quality of football, which is why I added the Huddersfield comment. I am sure they are delighted with how their season went but the quality of their football was poor. As was Watford’s, Leicester’s, Everton’s, Palace’s etc

And I think it is the same for each all the teams from 8th downwards with the possible exception of Bournemouth. Yes there was some moments of individual brilliance from Zaha, Kenedy, Marhez, Vardy, Shelvy, and others plus the (very) occasional excellent team showing but over the course of the season the quality of football on show form these teams was poor.

PS BPL = Barclay’s Premier League

[wiretapper]

Football in general is becoming more and more uneven and as more new fans from emerging nations (or markets as I am sure they are known in the corridors of power) like the USA, China, and India choose big established teams as their favourite it is in the interests of the powers at be to keep these teams at the top and these new fans interested.

When I was a kid Chelsea was not a big team/club. Only from the mid-90's and on it became big, incl. in Asia etc. They came from nowhere, and with a combination of money, good results and good PR made it what it is today. You can't blame Chelsea for that, they were just "first movers" or "disrupters" as you would say today.

Yes I agree Pedro. Had the globalisation of club football happened ten years earlier Chelsea may have been left behind but their timing was impeccable. I don't blame any of the teams for wanting to maintain their position at the top but the lack of variety does become boring.

I have no inclination towards Liverpool normally but I'll be cheering them on next week mainly because after winning the last two I would rather someone else than Real Madrid won it.

[Diggers]

Full stadiums most weeks for the premier league (despite extortionate prices). Companies willing to pay fortunes for TV rights. Fans who are happier with premiership survival than a cup win.
Depends what your definition of broken is. I was in a pub in Hove the other day when Brighton beat Man Utd, place was ecstatic.

[pedro]

Full stadiums in the Bundesliga as well. 45.000 on average, highest in Europe, despite a mediocre quality of the league.

[super_realist]

I don't think any football club in the Premier League would survive an audit in regards to operating in a fit and proper manner (goes for all Europe's top leagues too)
There isn't a single business in the world that would survive such a high % of its income going on salaries.

I'm not sure when, but surely eventually it will reach a zenith at which it can go no further.

[super_realist]

Full stadiums in the Bundesliga as well. 45.000 on average, highest in Europe, despite a mediocre quality of the league.

Is the Bundesliga mediocre quality, or is it people over here don't really know much about it? They've done a lot better in the Champions League in recent years than England have. So it can't be that mediocre, unless of course the Premier League is also mediocre.

[NedB-H]

Who else has done well in the CL other than Bayern and Borussia super? And Dortmund have struggled since Klopp left. The 4th placed teams actually faced each other in the CL qualifiers this year, and Liverpool cruised past Hoffenheim. Maybe Bayern are better than anyone over here, but 2-6 is surely stronger in the Prem.

[McLaren]

At least there is usually a legitimate title race in the EPL, unlike Italy, Germany or France where the same teams keep winning the league. Although City might be about to change this.

A lot of pundits and journalists seem quite certain that about 12 of the teams in the current EPL are very poor but what this is based on I am not sure. Is it more a case that we used to overrate a lot of the teams in the league?

[pedro]

Currently Bayern is the only quality team in the Bundesliga. The rest are scheisse.

[McLaren]

Are all the teams in Europe currently rubbish?


Barca feebly went out of Europe
Real not doing well in their own league and fluking it to the final of the CL
City out in CL QF
Liverpool unable to challenge on domestic front
PSG only able to flatten crappy french teams
Byern Failing to convert umpteen chances against an unconvincing Real
Athletico looking a little stodgy against a weak arsenal defence
Man Utd playing like a Tony Pulis team

Who is actually Good right now?

[beninho]

I dont think the bottom 10 teams in the league are poor, I think they are all pretty similar. But do compare favourably to teams throughout Europe.

Bournemouth finished 12, as did Augsburg, Genoa, Alaves. I would expect B'mouth to beat them all. Assuming Genoa don't have Thomas Skurahvy up front any more, like Football Italia C4 days.

[pedro]

Only 18 teams in the Bundesliga. But still, and although I don't follow any of the mentioned teams that close , I'm not too sure B'mouth would beat any of the mentioned. Probably more of a coin toss.

[Roller_Coaster]

City are good
Barca are good
Bayern are good

Real are pretty good

Athletico are effective
Juventus are effective
Utd are effective

Liverpool are exciting, but still flawed

Can't really think of anyone else worthy of a mention, in fact Liverpool and Utd only get one because, well, erm, just because it gets up to 8. Not much of a European Super League to be had at the moment in my opinion, purely an excuse to throw more money at those 8.

And no, Spurs, Chelsea and Arsenal aren't worthy of a mention, other than here in the "not worthy of a mention" bit.

[raycastleunited]

City are good
Barca are good
Bayern are good
Ebeneezer Goode

[Roller_Coaster]

ha ha

[pedro]

City are good
Barca are good
Bayern are good
Ebeneezer Goode
Johnny B

[super_realist]

Who else has done well in the CL other than Bayern and Borussia super? And Dortmund have struggled since Klopp left. The 4th placed teams actually faced each other in the CL qualifiers this year, and Liverpool cruised past Hoffenheim. Maybe Bayern are better than anyone over here, but 2-6 is surely stronger in the Prem.

This is the first time in about 5 years where there's been English representation beyond QF level. Bayern have won it and been runners up and Dortmund have a runners up.
England haven't even had a semi finalist until this year.

Until this year, England had only had 3 QF's in the last 5 seasons. That's hardly something which demonstrates how much better the EPL is, is it? The Bundesliga has 9 (Wolfburg were in the QF a few years back too)


I actually would quite like Livinthepasterpool to win this one, as it gets boring with Madrid winning all the time, and it's great to see Ronaldo crying.

[NedB-H]

So like I said, Bayern are better than anything in the PL, Dortmund were good until Klopp left, and after that the Bundesliga hasn’t got anything much. Glad you agree!

[dynamark]

Super I doubt Ron will be loosing any sleep.Love or dislike him.
Seasons nearly over plenty of folk happy to pay £30 to watch a Prem game week in week out.Its still an occasion -its got plenty of flaws but so has golf at present trying to rebrand in Europe serious money way out east and the Ladies all working part time apparently to stay afloat.
Clubs still trying to keep a decent cashflow going.

[Diggers]

Are all the teams in Europe currently rubbish?


Barca feebly went out of Europe
Real not doing well in their own league and fluking it to the final of the CL
City out in CL QF
Liverpool unable to challenge on domestic front
PSG only able to flatten crappy french teams
Byern Failing to convert umpteen chances against an unconvincing Real
Athletico looking a little stodgy against a weak arsenal defence
Man Utd playing like a Tony Pulis team

Who is actually Good right now?

Isn't that the whole point of Cup football? Doesn't make City crap because they lose to Liverpool.

[super_realist]

Super I doubt Ron will be loosing any sleep.Love or dislike him.
Seasons nearly over plenty of folk happy to pay £30 to watch a Prem game week in week out.Its still an occasion -its got plenty of flaws but so has golf at present trying to rebrand in Europe serious money way out east and the Ladies all working part time apparently to stay afloat.
Clubs still trying to keep a decent cashflow going.

I mentioned this last week, and I'm not remotely surprised, Women's golf, pretty much women's sport is not something that captures the imagination or public support much. No one owes anyone a living in any sport.
I don't mind watching the odd bit of it, but I'm not going to tune in to a tournament when there is something else on, maybe like Scottish Football should, they ought to move to a period of the year when the men are not playing.

[beninho]

Any predictions for the England squad, I don't think its been leaked yet.

Pickford, Butland, Pope

Walker, Trippier, Butland, Stones, Jones, Maguire, Tarkowski

Delph, Dier, Henderson, RLC, Alli, Lingard, Lalanna, Young, Cork

Sterling, Kane, Vardy, Rashford

[wiretapper]

Any predictions for the England squad, I don't think its been leaked yet.

Pickford, Butland, Pope

Walker, Trippier, Butland, Stones, Jones, Maguire, Tarkowski

Delph, Dier, Henderson, RLC, Alli, Lingard, Lalanna, Young, Cork

Sterling, Kane, Vardy, Rashford

I'm no Englishman but I reckon you'll have Livermore in there, whether he should be is another debate...

[pedro]

Any predictions for the England squad, I don't think its been leaked yet.

Pickford, Butland, Pope

Walker, Trippier, Butland, Stones, Jones, Maguire, Tarkowski

Delph, Dier, Henderson, RLC, Alli, Lingard, Lalanna, Young, Cork

Sterling, Kane, Vardy, Rashford

I'm no Englishman but I reckon you'll have Livermore in there, whether he should be is another debate...

What are the odds Milner cancels his Ibiza vacation?

[wiretapper]

Milner has been excellent this season, has he retired from International football?

In other news Allardici has left / been sacked by Everton

[beninho]

I saw big sam was the 6th highest point scorer. He did the job they needed. Sacking a bit harsh but if the fans make it known they are against him then it was always going to happen. They will likely finish in a similr position next season whoever they get.

[kwinigolfer]

Any England squad is going to look pretty weak, don't you think?
Especially with Lallana, and possibly Stones, lacking fitness and match practice. Now Trippier's fitness in doubt also.
Seems he won't pick Smalling but I would, Bertrand also. Not sure what's happened to Danny Rose, Spurs should have cashed in while they had the chance. No Livermore for me.

I like Butland, ben, but not enough to choose him twice

Meanwhile, bank get ready for Sam, laughing all the way.

[Be_the_ball]

So does that mean Rooney is staying put I wonder?

[JAS]

Are all the teams in Europe currently rubbish?


Barca feebly went out of Europe
Real not doing well in their own league and fluking it to the final of the CL
City out in CL QF
Liverpool unable to challenge on domestic front
PSG only able to flatten crappy french teams
Byern Failing to convert umpteen chances against an unconvincing Real
Athletico looking a little stodgy against a weak arsenal defence
Man Utd playing like a Tony Pulis team

Who is actually Good right now?

Are all the teams in Europe currently rubbish? No

You select stats like a politician Mac

City are clearly good, the rest of the top 4 are decent
Bayern have declined a bit since Pep left but are still the best the Germans have to offer
Juve & Roma are decent.
PSG are loaded to the extent where it will count at some point (although I'd love to see them flop - a poke in the eye for the "lets throw more money at it than anybody else")
Then there's the La Liga contingent, Real, Barca, Atletico...look at where most of the European silverware has gone in the last 5 years. The EPL can trumpet all it likes about "best league in the world blah blah blah" The truth is that it's La Liga and no amount of sky sports hype will alter that basic fact.

[pedro]

You can throw in Sevilla as well.

[wiretapper]

Excellent article on the young English talent currently playing in the Bundesliga

http://www.football365.com/news/bundesliga-the-new-home-of-english-talent

[kwinigolfer]

You can throw in Moyes as well.

Can't stand Big Sam.
But like David Moyes as a manager a lot!

[McLaren]

Jas, I was clearly being sarcastic and poking fun at the "no teams are good" talk you here a lot of at the moment.

[McLaren]

Moyes gone for not being "cool" enough I guess? He didn't play the west ham way of flirting very closely with or actually getting relegated.

[wiretapper]

Other than a short term firefighter Moyes has no future in the Premier League but West Ham are as dysfunctional as they come so he's probably better off gone. I steady Championship club is where I see his future...

Until December and some chairman gets an itchy trigger finger and Allardici is already at Southampton / Cardiff / Watford etc

[kwinigolfer]

wire,
Not fair to Moyes do you think? But agree that West Ham have destroyed everything that made West Ham West Ham.

Moyes hasn't really put too many feet wrong, except his decision to go to Sunderland. All those who slag off his tenure @ Old Trafford conveniently turn a blind eye to the three years following - only two players he bought are still there also, can't say that about the wallies who succeeded him and spent so much more.

[kwinigolfer]

Not sure what Ryan Bertrand has done wrong, not to be included.
Good to see T A-A in the squad, but I'd've liked Maitland-Niles if compelled to take a real young 'un.
And would definitely have preferred Smalling rather than Cahill. Delph lucky imo.

[wiretapper]

Kwini, I think he is reasonable at what he does but in 2018 I don't see it as anything other than short-termism.

I just don't see his style of play or style of management fitting into the long-term plans of a Premier League club.

RE the England squad surprised no Lallana even with his lack of sharpness, as you say Delph is a lucky boy. And I agree with you about Bertrand, playing regularly for his club, played in more qualifiers than Rose.

[beninho]

How can Delph be lucky, he has been playing for one of the best teams in Europe, mainly as a left back, but he has had a better season at LB then Bertrand.

[raycastleunited]

Delph has played left back for most of the season for the Champions. If he's good enough for Pep he's more than good enough for England! And he offers England the flexibility to play in midfield.

Young has played left back all season for Man U. I would say Bertrand, playing for a poor Southampton leaking goals, is definitely behind those 2. Not sure about Danny Rose, he has barely played all season.

I also would have preferred Smalling to Cahill, especially as his partner Phil Jones is in there.

Glad he's not picked the light weight ineffective Lallana, who sometimes looks good but after a season out would be unlikely to deliver anything.

[Roller_Coaster]

I think Cahill's in there for experience.

With very few from previous campaigns, who else would the players learn not to play well or go very far from?

[McLaren]

I like welbeck but how shallow is the selection pool that he is still getting in the squad ?

[McLaren]

Also a bit worrying how crucial it is that milner isn't available for selection

[raycastleunited]

I like welbeck but how shallow is the selection pool that he is still getting in the squad ?

Agreed. Can't see him getting any time on the pitch (barring injuries) as Kane, Vardy, Rashford are surely all ahead of him as striker options. And Lingard, Sterling ahead of him for wide / attacking midfield roles.

[Diggers]

Wellbeck always plays well for England. I'd take him, his goal record for England is good. You can say their isn't much below him for selection, I'd also say however as a collection I'm not sure Id swap our forward/attacking midfield options for too many other countries.

[super_realist]

Pep Southgate had to go for youth. When they fail this time, at least he can say he tried something different.

Just heard some chump on 5live say that Rooney should have been in there. I nearly crashed the car.

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