Saffers vs Aussies

First topic message reminder :

Slightly surprisingly SA have gone in with only four bowlers, electing to play De Bruyn over the impressive Ngidi - Aussies team unchanged from the final Ashes test.

4 test series should be a good one - Aussies batting first at Kingsmead, and Morkel already causing Bancroft some trouble

Worrying footage also emerging comes from prior to a session in the recent Ashes series. Bancroft is seen seemingly making a tea or coffee then takes a spoonful of sugar, pours it into his hand and puts it in his trouser pocket.

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Reports seem to be Lehmann will step down and Smith/Warner face year long bans

Everyone has seen the footage of Lehmann watching the rumbling of Bancroft and him radioing the third man who then tries warning Bancroft on the pitch who tries to hide the offending item down his trousers. Sorry but Smith saying the coach didn't know was a bare-faced lie. We already know that Lehmann has a win-at-all-costs mindset with the comments he made about Broad urging the Aussie fans to send Broad home in tears. That says he was happy to do whatever it would take to get a win.

So it looks like this will be the line up for 4th test

Renshaw
Burns
Khawaja
S.Marsh
Maxwell
M.Marsh
Paine (c) (wk)
Starc
Cummins
Hazelwood
Lyon

Back to the future!  

Probably the best we can do given the 2 new Qld players are fresh off their Shield win... and maybe things are also going cold on Handscomb.
Is he dodgy too? Or just the messenger...?

Happy to see Maxwell get a run again too. Seems to be a decent guy and his hyperactivity on the field might rub off on the others.
He just needs to put his head down when batting and do what he did over the summer here. True grit and patience is what is needed now.
Funnily enough, Smith's criticism of him has made him refocus on his game and probably made him a little more humble now too.

CaledonianCraig wrote:Worrying footage also emerging comes from prior to a session in the recent Ashes series. Bancroft is seen seemingly making a tea or coffee then takes a spoonful of sugar, pours it into his hand and puts it in his trouser pocket.

Warner apparently openly told (taunted) members of the England side about this after the series. It was certainly known about before the sandpaper incident came to light.

The Loaded Dog wrote:Back to the future!  

Probably the best we can do given the 2 new Qld players are fresh off their Shield win... and maybe things are also going cold on Handscomb.
Is he dodgy too? Or just the messenger...?

Happy to see Maxwell get a run again too. Seems to be a decent guy and his hyperactivity on the field might rub off on the others.
He just needs to put his head down when batting and do what he did over the summer here. True grit and patience is what is needed now.
Funnily enough, Smith's criticism of him has made him refocus on his game and probably made him a little more humble now too.

ah yes forgot about Handscomb, he will probably be there in place of Maxwell

Gooseberry wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:Worrying footage also emerging comes from prior to a session in the recent Ashes series. Bancroft is seen seemingly making a tea or coffee then takes a spoonful of sugar, pours it into his hand and puts it in his trouser pocket.

Warner apparently openly told (taunted) members of the England side about this after the series. It was certainly known about before the sandpaper incident came to light.

It's long been no secret that Warner is an idiot. He is undoubtedly an outstanding batsman but his antics with sledging, especially his use of very personal and sensitive information about opposition players, has upset his own teammates before let alone the opposition.

He has also upset other senior Aussie players by instructing (or bullying depending on your view) junior players to do the same things with regards to sledging. Especially once he got into trouble for his antics it sounds like he swiftly moved onto getting others to do his dirty work for him.

Many are talking about it being a shame that test cricket is losing the batsmanship of Smith and Warner. Personally I think the shadow this has thrown over their bowling attack is more of a shame. Starc alone is a truly exceptional bowler and a joy to watch. He is a rare bowler who you can see tear through the side you support and still enjoy his skill that is on show - Trent Boult is another excellent example of this.

The most exciting things in cricket to me are watching a real battle between a batsman and a true pace bowler at full tilt or a wrist spinner at their best. To me that Starc led bowling unit is a more important asset to test cricket than either Smith or Warner.

I hope that Australia choose to build a future side around their pace attack and a strong coaching unit. Note the word unit there, coaching staffs that place too much emphasis on their head coach can often lead to a lack of oversight and balanced opinions. Langer and Gillespie would be a fantastic pairing to lead the Australian team out of this mess.

#DavidWarner never to captain Australia, #SteveSmith barred from leadership
role for at least two years

So smith can be back as a captain in 2 years
Shaun Marsh to me was a better choice than Paine

Michael Clarke threw his own name in day-before-yesterday...at the peak of a controversy that was also perhaps a national tragedy...."I am willing to come back as a captain"
Petty & opportunistic

Aus will indeed be a weakened side if you take out two batsmen who are not only their best batsmen but probably among their all-time top batsmen

But an opportunity for others to stand up and play for restoration of national pride

SA batting first...

Sayers on debut for Australia in place of Mitchell Starc. Not too surprised - he looked knackered in Cape Town. Will be interesting to see how Sayers goes ; he could be a useful option when the ball swings.

Handscomb gets the nod for the middle order ahead of Maxwell...which is reasonable as he's actually been on the tour. And of course the two Queensland openers . At least they are coming in on a high...

Markram is a lovely player to watch - he’s like James Vince but makes runs!

aus bowling looks weak
Team has nothing lose & low expectations off them

Mitchell Starc has a 'tibial fracture' in his leg, so he's essentially broken his leg. Probably won't be seen again until India's tour of Australia

KP_fan wrote:
aus bowling looks weak
Team has nothing lose & low expectations off them

Weak ? Starc is a loss , yes...but a week ago they were bring widely hailed as the best attack in the world : losing one bowler shouldn't turn the rest of them into no hopers...

It is true that their strength is - in my view - largely derived from the four of them operating as a combination , and a very good one , rather than any one of them being a superstar. (It might be argued we saw that in Melbourne recently) But even so , Lyon , Cummins and Hazlewood are each very good bowlers in their own right and I think "weak" is a slight overstatement.

Nothing much happening for the bowlers yet it's true...though Hazlewood beat the bat a couple of times with fine deliveries. Sayers tidy enough but not threatening. I think Lyon will be busy later.

Think their bowlers should start to threaten when the ball starts reversing.



...Wait

Fifty up in 17 . Markram the dominant partner. No scares yet though a few balls have gone past the edge.

Australia could do with a break. Given the events of the last week a long day in the field could sap their last strength.

And there is the break ! Lyon entices Elgar into a soft drive and he's caught at mid off !

They really needed that.

Markram takes the attack to Lyon : down the pitch and launches him over long on for six...

Elgar should be taking notes

73/1

Hundred up now as Amla caresses Sayers through the covers...runs coming at a reasonable clip in the 32nd.

Sayers has got some movement ; but at low 120 s he's not distressing the batsmen too much. Might be a handful on an overcast day at Trent Bridge but I'm not sure he's going to have a big career for Australia - though it's perhaps a bit early to call.

They'll be glad they have Mitch Marsh to fill in some overs today , I think. Only one wicket before lunch - and that to the spinner - is not what you hope for at this ground.

Amla with another below par effort the curtail coming down on the South African veteran. Markram with another 100. Really promising start to a potentially great career

How does Chadd Sayers take 50 wickets a year at Adelaide?

247/2 becomes 247/4 in a blink of an eye.

Du Plessis has had an abysmal summer for SA with the bat

The Warner press conference and tears are a thoroughly enjoyable watch - couldn’t happen to a nicer bloke

Fair to say Warner doesn't enjoy massive sympathy here at present ...think there's a feeling he is primarily responsible for the mess that has cost Australia their number one and two bats - to say nothing of international respect.
In fact many here would be happy to see him clapped in irons and transported to Van Dieman's Land...

So I doubt his press confess session will help gather him much support...in contrast to Smith for whom I detect an already growing groundswell of sympathetic counter reaction.

My concern with that Alfie is that it feels like a carefully orchestrated ploy by Cricket Australia. Steve Smith is in line to be Australia’s second greatest batsman. Whilst Warner is also a top player, he’s older and seemingly a more difficult personality. If a “leader” has to be blamed, he’s more expendable. Feels to me like he’s been made a scapegoat, aiding Smith’s rehabilitation (the story now being spun that he was misled into making an error).

Away from the controversy I am pleased to see Paine start well in the PR business with handshakes all round at the start...OK cynics can say they need some gesture ; but it is a gesture in the direction of good sport and at least suggests the way he wants to go. Hopefully to be backed up with behaviour.

And full marks to Australia for battling out the last session when it really could have run away from them - those late wickets preventing a rout. Even so I think SA are set for 400 plus and the whip hand in this game ; but they aren't falling in a heap. And Sayers showed a little of why he's been on the fringe of the team for a while. Not that I think he will be the new Terry Alderman , mind ; but he looks like an honest tradesman.

I see the Aussie women carved up the somewhat experimental England XI in the t20 final. Some wags here have suggested the teams should swap salary packages

SA on to 468 /8.

M Marsh in his sixth over of 135. Shows he's not taken seriously as a bowler ?

Lack of a true fifth bowler is a real weakness for Australia : one England failed to exploit last series. Couple of times they came close to breaking them - then blew it with some silly shots. Melbourne - and no Starc - was the exception.

SA taking grip here ; though the promised bad weather may see this as a draw.

All out 488 , Bavuma stranded on 95.

Not too much sympathy he was a little too passive. At least he has red ink...

Cummins five wickets confirms my thought he is actually the best of the current Aussie group ...Starc absent notwithstanding.

Mammoth task now for Australia - first to reach 289. If they can muster 300 plus they'll be in with a show of a draw - though the win is surely already gone.

Not the best start for Australia ...Burns gone after three overs.

This could get ugly. I think I'm off anyway for lack of company

Handscomb out first ball - 38/3.

This test was always going to be a forgone conclusion. Australia are mentally shell-shocked after events of the past week or so. Not taking anything away from South Africa as they are building a very strong side now. Strength in all areas and they bat pretty deep.

Call me an old fool but is it just me or is Hazlewood just a tad overrated? This boy is supposedly the McGrath, Clark, Siddle style line bowler yet it's twice now(Ashes 2015 and SA 18) where his failure to control the swinging ball has massively hindered his side. Where there's marginal movement he's sensational yet if there's appreciable movement he's totally ineffective.

Providing Cummins can remain fit, potentially his partnership with equally injury ravaged Pattinson could be the future for Australia

Even without what's happened, any team would struggle if you took their two best batsmen and best bowler out. Obviously the teary twins aren't playing, and with Starc now out with a long term injury, the Australian line up doesn't look very strong. The batting now includes three players who were dropped for poor performances in the near past

VTR wrote:Even without what's happened, any team would struggle if you took their two best batsmen and best bowler out. Obviously the teary twins aren't playing, and with Starc now out with a long term injury, the Australian line up doesn't look very strong. The batting now includes three players who were dropped for poor performances in the near past

Yes indeed. I think the key for Australia is one or two of those players brought in can prove to be half-decent replacements to lessen the blow of losing Warner and Smith.

That was... pathetic. 3-1 loading.

alfie wrote:

KP_fan wrote:
aus bowling looks weak
Team has nothing lose & low expectations off them

Weak ?  Starc is a loss , yes...but a week ago they were bring widely hailed as the best attack in the world : losing one bowler shouldn't turn the rest of them into no hopers...

It is true that their strength is - in my view - largely derived from the four of them operating as a combination , and a very good one , rather than any one of them being a superstar. (It might be argued we saw that in Melbourne recently)  But even so , Lyon , Cummins and Hazlewood are each very good bowlers in their own right and I think "weak" is a slight overstatement.

Nothing much happening for the bowlers yet it's true...though Hazlewood beat the bat a couple of times with fine deliveries. Sayers tidy enough but not threatening.  I think Lyon will be busy later.

they are a very delicate-balance-strong bowling side
If any one of Starc, Cummin, hazlewood or Lyon is carrying a niggle and a bit under-performing..... they reduced to average
and if one of them is out...they become weak
because the replacement for especially Lyon, Starc & Cummin are very moderate

Cummins has to work doubly hard in the absence of a potent Starc & viceversa

No wonder they conceded 500ish on a SA pitch
when Starc was out last time....Even a side like Eng has piled up 500 or more if i recall correct.

Didn't stay to the end but I see that only Khawaja got any sort of a score ...and at 110/6 they're staring at the follow on.
Paine and Cummins will battle (I hope) but not much left in the shed.

I gather some weather might intervene ? But even so SA will fancy 3-1 from here.

Australia bowled out for 221 and trail after the first innings by 267 runs but will not enforce the follow-on due to injury concerns to Morn Morkel.

No idea why the comms are so baffled as to why Faf hasn’t declared - they’re down a seamer, Philander is knackered and they don’t need to win this test - making his guys potentially go bowl 120/130 overs would be utter madness.

Think it’s mainly Warne tbf. And everything he says can be taken with a pinch of salt! Rabada has a stiff back as well by all accounts.

It is pretty boring to watch but unfortunately understandable.

Many cancelled tee times in the comms box for tomorrow I should imagine!

Great to see that Australia's period of remorse and introspection is over and they're now back atop the moral high ground over the incorrect way South Africa are beating them.

Magnificent work Aussies

Apparently the way we present and perform in the upcoming Comm Games will earn us some much needed moral points.
I'm not sure it quite works like that though.

They need to take a leaf out of the Women's cricket team book.
Slaughter the opposition whenever possible... but do it fairly... and with far less chatter and a big generous Australian smile.

From the very exciting test in NZ to one sided dull affair in SA

Aus's morale was knocked out by the "events" in the last test and its hard to get it back when in the last test  on tour..... the center of attention still being the off-field events and their repercussions...and with a new accidental captain , sub-optimal team and coach with no motivation left to continue......And I am sure many in the squad were just wishing to be back home  
Cummins still did a great job
God knows why Faf needed to set a 600 run target

Aus needs to find a new coach, a new captain too in my view ( S Marsh maybe?)...regroup.....build up the fight, the hunger , the esteem , the team spirit........or in other words press a RESET button on their cricketing system.

The cricketing fraternity is small with few strong  teams....and we need a strong Aus back at the soonest

Congratulations Raf!    

A massive capitulation in the end but your guys smelt blood and duly went for it. Some amazing bowling performances and the SA batting made the most of producing big runs against the changed line up.

I heard a funny comment on our "The Back Page" sports show last night.
Kerry O'Keefe said their (Australia's) behaviour on the field went from "noisy, vulgar and intimidating" to like playing as though they were "in a library". And "Smiling" instead of "sneering" after each delivery. That doesn't quite work!  Maybe somewhere in between would be better!

Maybe they turned the dial too far the other way?
I'm sure they will need to spend some time now thinking about how they can still play hard (since that is one of the main ingredients for success) yet politely and fairly. You still need to perform actively and not too passively like this last match. It was quite sad (yet also funny in a painful way) to see them overdo the "We're so sorry!" bit.

Or to put it more in your vernacular: I can imagine a toothless lion (with no roar or claws) will often go hungry in the wild.

It will be such fun to see how they welcome India later in the year... surely there will be at least one drama?
Kohli will have the upper hand no doubt. Don't know if I can go through anything like this again!

Cheers LD - It was pretty ruthless, which I like. As Elgar said, nice guys finisb second, and in this game Australia's nice guy trope was a very distant second. I think its important that guys play like themselves (within reason of course). No issues with aggression, as long as the line is acknowledged and you can prevent yourself from crossing it - I think Aus were painfully passive and it told with the ball where they couldn't generate the pressure - not scoreboard pressure, more environmental pressure required to force a team into errors when you're undermanned.

The India series will be incredibly interesting sans Smith and Warner. At home, the Aus batsman generally have rather impressive record. I'd make Aus favourites, but it'll be interesting