Ball tampering fall out

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Being reported by the Australian press that head coach has tendered his resignation. For someone who had no knowledge of the ball tampering, funny how he jumps just as cricket Australia CEO rocks up in South Africa. Lehmann is a coward and true justification would be a lifetime ban.

BCCI has banned Warner and Smnith for 12 months as well which puts them out of this IPL.

So after all the talk, Lehmann gets away, Smith and Warner with 12 month bans and Bancroft 9 months. Even after it was established that Smith and Bancroft continued to cheat the game even after the actual instance of tampering, all the way to the press meet. Must say Smith and Warner are quite lucky indeed.

I am 100% confident though that Warner will never play for Australia again. He is already in his early 30s and after his year ban he'd need to establish a fair few months of form to even be considered. Even then though the angst from the public and his team-mates will still be too overwhelmingly strong for him to even be considered for selection. Smith may find it a little easier and will be helpwd by his test record but will he ever be forgiven?

Smiths charachter is much less in question on all thgis and the way hes acted in response to everything does him credit. Ultimately hes been the fall guy as capatin for not controlling Warner, whilst not being directly implicated in the specific incident that led to the investigation.
Its important to remember though that CA have clarified the hearing and bans were not solely in response to the sandpaper incident, but in regard to the disrepute that it and the other incidents bought on CA and the game.

I totally agre theres no way back for Warner now, but firmly beleive Smith should and will return as an all formasts player. Hes going to have a very rough ride of it on surely wont be able to captain again...not is he likely to get high profile coaching and media jobs once retired even if a lot of ex players are backing him. This has cost him a lot in the short and long term even if he does return in 12 months.

No great shock to hear Shane Warne saying its all overblwon of course, hes part of the posion in my eyes. Always one to join in with the pre match trolling and abusing his media position to spread malice.

Lehmann walks away intact but he's played a large role in setting a culture that allowed this to happen.

GSC wrote:Lehmann walks away intact but he's played a large role in setting a culture that allowed this to happen.

Thanks.

Very much agree.

Alfie, LD and any other posters in Australia - what's the view on your street corner about who has and hasn't been penalised?

Gooseberry wrote:Smiths charachter is much less in question on all thgis and the way hes acted in response to everything does him credit. Ultimately hes been the fall guy as capatin for not controlling Warner, whilst not being directly implicated in the specific incident that led to the investigation.
Its important to remember though that CA have clarified the hearing and bans were not solely in response to the sandpaper incident, but in regard to the disrepute that it and the other incidents bought on CA and the game.

I totally agre theres no way back for Warner now, but firmly beleive Smith should and will return as an all formasts player. Hes going to have a very rough ride of it on surely wont be able to captain again...not is he likely to get high profile coaching and media jobs once retired even if a lot of ex players are backing him. This has cost him a lot in the short and long term even if he does return in 12 months.

No great shock to hear Shane Warne saying its all overblwon of course, hes part of the posion in my eyes. Always one to join in with the pre match trolling and abusing his media position to spread malice.

This seems a little kind an assessment of Smith’s position. He was fully aware of the intended cheating and, as captain, chose to do nothing to stop it. Even if he didn’t propose it, he clearly agreed to it going ahead. He then apparently instructed Bancroft to hide the sandpaper when they might get caught to mislead the umpires and then lied about it actually being sandpaper in the post day interview.

I agree he will come back to the Australian team and a 12 month ban is a tough but sufficient sanction but let’s not pretend he was some innocent bystander who was just misled by Warner.

guildfordbat wrote:

GSC wrote:Lehmann walks away intact but he's played a large role in setting a culture that allowed this to happen.

Thanks.

Very much agree.

Alfie, LD and any other posters in Australia - what's the view on your street corner about who has and hasn't been penalised?

Hi Guildford,

Just saw Steve Smith's appearance, 19:50 here. He started well but choked up in the end talking about his family.

Bancroft gave a short apology answered some questions... seems very contrite. Had a WACA cricket lady ("aunty" type) saying a few words on his behalf afterwards. Seems they will give him some help during his time out and give something back to the cricket community.

Warner arriving in just over 2.5 hrs (22:30) no press conference... will slip out the back door at the airport and said he will talk in a few days.
He's asking for the full paparazzi treatment outside his home in other words. I think he will go down fighting (and come out worse)... threatening legal action, defending himself, etc.

Lehmann is now very apologetic yet still hanging on. I wasn't convinced he fully understands what the players have done. Almost as if he wants us to see him as a victim. That won't wash! With CA backing him I think they are both in a fatal fall together. Which is good. We need to clean the place up and get some fresh honest faces in there who are confident they can deliver.

On a side note - a very interesting piece of news here. Ch 9 will be covering the tennis from January 2020 (Ch 7 last AO in 2019 after 40 years covering it). Therefore not so much to spend on the cricket in the Ch 9 budget. CA knocked back a joint bid between Ch 9  & Ch 10... so they (CA) are now left in a precarious situation with a product worth less than what it was say 2 weeks ago. Just mentioning this because having seen the game and the way it has been presented here for the last 40 years or more... there may well be a very different way TV cricket coverage is produced and presented here if another broadcaster gets the contract. Probably good timing really.

Saw a SkyNews poll today. To summarise:
41 per cent support a season-long ban along with a fine, whereas 15 per cent support a 12 month ban only.
Almost 32 per cent of those polled said they supported a lifetime ban for those caught cheating.

Warner can appeal all he likes, there's no reason for Australia to select him again. He's a vile little person

Nathaniel Jacobs wrote:Warner can appeal all he likes, there's no reason for Australia to select him again. He's a vile little person

Yeah.

Lifetime bans strike me as OTT. Not that sure why Warner gets a lifetime ban from all leadership positions but not Smith. Doubt either gets considered again anyway, but seems to be Warner fully under the bus.

Lehmann I can only assume is threatening legal action.

I think Smith may get considered again but not as captain.
I don't think Warner will be considered again.
I think Bancroft has a chance to reappear in about 2-3 years after a season or 2 of SS.

"Almost 32 per cent of those polled said they supported a lifetime ban for those caught cheating."

That's pretty extreme and makes me wonder if there was any thought in the answer.

I just watched the Smith presser. As far as I'm concerned he should serve his ban and then be allowed to earn back whatever status he can earn back. The guy's in pain.

I doubt Bancroft gets another go tbh. He's offered modest returns in the 8 matches he played. Young Matthew Renshaw is one that should close the door on Bancroft. Joe Burns is also fairly young so he'll keep Bancroft at bay.

No doubt smith will be back, for Christ sake the boy averages 62.

Nathaniel Jacobs wrote:I doubt Bancroft gets another go tbh. He's offered modest returns in the 8 matches he played. Young Matthew Renshaw is one that should close the door on Bancroft. Joe Burns is also fairly young so he'll keep Bancroft at bay.

No doubt smith will be back, for Christ sake the boy averages 62.

I'm not saying he will get another go.
He will have to prove himself all over again from scratch... which won't be easy at all. Odds are definitely against him.

Points taken on Renshaw and Burns. They now have an opportunity to try and cement their spots.

I must say, Australia had problems with the aggressive attitudes before Lehmann. They’ve done big reviews before him.

It does sound like Lehmann was out of the loop on it.

Can’t forgove Smith because it wasn’t his idea. Not saying no was as good as saying yes, especially as captain.

The Loaded Dog wrote:

guildfordbat wrote:

GSC wrote:Lehmann walks away intact but he's played a large role in setting a culture that allowed this to happen.

Thanks.

Very much agree.

Alfie, LD and any other posters in Australia - what's the view on your street corner about who has and hasn't been penalised?

Hi Guildford,

Just saw Steve Smith's appearance, 19:50 here. He started well but choked up in the end talking about his family.

Bancroft gave a short apology answered some questions... seems very contrite. Had a WACA cricket lady ("aunty" type) saying a few words on his behalf afterwards. Seems they will give him some help during his time out and give something back to the cricket community.

Warner arriving in just over 2.5 hrs (22:30) no press conference... will slip out the back door at the airport and said he will talk in a few days.
He's asking for the full paparazzi treatment outside his home in other words. I think he will go down fighting (and come out worse)... threatening legal action, defending himself, etc.

Lehmann is now very apologetic yet still hanging on. I wasn't convinced he fully understands what the players have done. Almost as if he wants us to see him as a victim. That won't wash! With CA backing him I think they are both in a fatal fall together. Which is good. We need to clean the place up and get some fresh honest faces in there who are confident they can deliver.

On a side note - a very interesting piece of news here. Ch 9 will be covering the tennis from January 2020 (Ch 7 last AO in 2019 after 40 years covering it). Therefore not so much to spend on the cricket in the Ch 9 budget. CA knocked back a joint bid between Ch 9  & Ch 10... so they (CA) are now left in a precarious situation with a product worth less than what it was say 2 weeks ago. Just mentioning this because having seen the game and the way it has been presented here for the last 40 years or more... there may well be a very different way TV cricket coverage is produced and presented here if another broadcaster gets the contract. Probably good timing really.

Saw a SkyNews poll today. To summarise:
41 per cent support a season-long ban along with a fine, whereas 15 per cent support a 12 month ban only.
Almost 32 per cent of those polled said they supported a lifetime ban for those caught cheating.

LD - thanks to you and all others for the posts.

As for Smith being upset, I have to ask - and I know my answer - is that because what was done was so wrong or because it was found out?

Meanwhile, my reaction to Smith talking about his family, is to ask for the sick bucket to be passed.

With my cynicism increasing by the hour the more I hear about this episode, I wonder whether Lehmann is protected by not just threatening legal action but by knowing where CA have buried other bodies. ''You p*ss on me and I'll do the same to you from a great height.'' Just an idle thought and pure speculation on my part.

It will clearly be very difficult for Warner to come back but I don't regard it as impossible as some suggest. I believe it will depend on two factors. Firstly, how much he wants it and delivers at state level upon his (presumed) return there. Secondly, how Australia's openers are doing one or two years down the line. Although a ghastly expression, it is and will remain a results business. I wouldn't underestimate that coming into the mix.

Interesting as well about the tv coverage. Cricket is now a damaged product and obviously especially so in Australia.

Darren Lehmann has now officially announced his retirement after the final Test in South Africa

guildfordbat wrote:
LD - thanks to you and all others for the posts.

As for Smith being upset, I have to ask - and I know my answer - is that because what was done was so wrong or because it was found out?

Meanwhile, my reaction to Smith talking about his family, is to ask for the sick bucket to be passed.

With my cynicism increasing by the hour the more I hear about this episode, I wonder whether Lehmann is protected by not just threatening legal action but by knowing where CA have buried other bodies. ''You p*ss on me and I'll do the same to you from a great height.'' Just an idle thought and pure speculation on my part.

It will clearly be very difficult for Warner to come back but I don't regard it as impossible as some suggest. I believe it will depend on two factors. Firstly, how much he wants it and delivers at state level upon his (presumed) return there. Secondly, how Australia's openers are doing one or two years down the line. Although a ghastly expression, it is and will remain a results business. I wouldn't underestimate that coming into the mix.

Smiths upset ...bit of both plus yes he is managing his image here. Theres a definate campaign underway to rehabilitate him, Warners not getting the same treatment and not stop willing to play the game.

In terms of Lehman ... the explanation for CA accepting he had no direct role or knowledge of this was his reaction, to ask "WTF is going on"  and that Handscombe was not sent out to help cover up as reported but to ask what was going on. Hes taken quite a firm stand with the team by all accounts after the event and was at the forefront of making them come fully clean.
But he does have a responsibility when it comes to the teams attitude and general conduct over course of his tenure. But then when he was employed CA openly said they wanted to get that Aussie spirit bacxk in the side, and he was widley celebrated for making them aggressively comeptitive again in his early days. Its just the failure the control the secesses of it (Warner) that seems to be the issue.
Warner though was a problem before him, and no doubt will continue to be one after hes gone.
I think he was a bit lucky to get off altogether if the sanctions were as CA said not solely to do with the specific incident but the general conduct of the team and the previaling attitude which enabled this. It is right though that he was clearly exonorated of any wrongdoing for the specific episode, even if he mustve known about the sugar and one assumes other previous blatant illegal ball tampering.
As it is hes done the honourable thing now and resigned. I would assume that although the board felt unable to act on that specific episode that they have lost faith in him and theres factions looking for any excuse to ditch him. Even his credibility with the team must be shot.

Whilst I agree that a pragamatic results driven Australia might be tempted to turn to Warner again if things are really off the rails ...and its not like they havent gone back to players everyone though well past it but it really would be controversial and a sign of desperation to do so. We have seen the ECB part ways with Pietersen and even when there was a media manipulated campaign to rehabilitate him they made it clear to Bayliss this was a no go. This would be another notch again, whiulst Id nevcer say never I think its really unlikley. Chances are he will also not be playing any first class cricket and instead focus on earning what he can as a T20 gun for hire anyway. Aus are less likley to be desperate for an aged batsman with a bad reputation in that format. Its not even like hes a great test player, just the only decent opener theyve had for a long time.
But hey lets see!

Well Lehmann bowed to the inevitable and resigned ...as I thought , but perhaps quicker than I expected. Regardless of what he did or didn't know about the sandpaper plot he was not the man to lead this Australian team on the path to redemption - which may take a while.

Guildford asking re local attitudes : actually mood here seems to be generally harsher on the players than much of the overseas comments !
I've not had an opportunity to discuss with my cricket contacts , other than family ; but as an example the most sympathy for Smith I've heard came from a South African with whom I work - he reckoned the bans are a bit OTT. The Aussies in my office are mostly ready to throw away the key...
Think it is the feeling of being so badly let down that has made the most impact. Suspect there will eventually be a bit of a pull back , and people will be prepared to give them a second chance after doing their time...but I'd be surprised to see , say , Smith ever back as captain. Warner is gathering the most venom : he's really not the most likable fellow on the evidence of his public behavior and I think both the public and the cricket community have had enough of him so I doubt he will be back.
Bancroft really has made a mess of his chance : silly enough to do the dirty stuff in the first place , concealing the evidence (clumsily) and then still lying about the actual implement even when "coming clean" !
Dumb and dishonest. Slightly shorter ban as I guess he is seen as easily influenced ; but he will need to score buckets of runs in the future to be considered again , you'd think. Character comes into selection - or should , if you want a really good team.

Reckon Smith will bat for Australia again unless the effect of this whole thing - which has clearly shocked him right out of the unreal bubble world he seemed to be living in at the initial press conference - causes him to come completely unglued. But as I say he surely can never lead again.

And what do I think of the penalties myself ? Hmm. Have to be honest I'm not absolutely sure. Originally I felt losing their positions , with a further ban of X number of matches , would be appropriate - considering return to the side couldn't be guaranteed. The severe bans (whole next first class seasons) are heavier than previous ball tamperers have faced : big element of sending a message in those sanctions. Guess on balance they can't complain : but when you take the loss of income from IPL into account they've certainly paid a very heavy price !

I never liked Smith all that much (perhaps my adopted Victorian status ) but I do still regret seeing such a fine batsman cut down in his prime...Shakespeare could have made a great play out of the whole sorry saga.

All still leaves me feeling rather flat : cricket doesn't seem quite as much fun right now. It will get better...

Bans way too harsh. PC brigade in full flow

just watching all the interviews now, totally different from from the news first broke. found them very blase about it at first. they didnt seem too bothered. contrast to now and them all crying, perhaps its because they've realized the severity, but i struggle to feel too much sympathy. they all knew what they were doing was wrong and still did it. the media attention they'll be suffering is probably OTT, they aint oscar pistorius

bans sounds about right to me, cricket Australia needed to make a stand. especially against the likes of warner who's behavior really doesn't sit within crickets morals

The issue has moved towards a spotlight onto the culture of Australian Cricket brought in by Lehmann, the recognition that blatant cheating arose from out of that culture, and the need to change that culture.  That culture included sledging that became personalised verbal abuse.

Did anybody listen to Lehmann's comments about it all. Far too much consolation for the cheats and admiration and concern for them and precious little condemnation. If he never played a part in it then just call me Ruud Gulitt from now on as I'm a Dutchman.

CaledonianCraig wrote:Did anybody listen to Lehmann's comments about it all. Far too much consolation for the cheats and admiration and concern for them and precious little condemnation. If he never played a part in it then just call me Ruud Gulitt from now on as I'm a Dutchman.

At the time, I thought it sounded strange - it wasn't in keeping with the repentant tone and shock expressed by others.  On second thoughts I thought he was taking the coaching attitude of trying to protect and encourage his players.  However I imagine there were complaints behind the scene and probably this led to his about turn in staying on.  That is to say, it seems likely Cricket Australia were not too pleased with that, nor probably "social media", and so very likely pressure was placed on him to resign otherwise he would have been sacked.

From the BBC here is another view of the situation from former test umpire John Holder who thought that the actions were comparable to and in some ways worse than the Pakistani Spot Fixing Incident which led to prison, outright bans, longer term suspensions for those involved:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/43571149

I think the bans are harsh but it’s not PC, it’s money. They don’t care about the public as much as what the sponsors and TV companies think of the public.

Both Smith and Bancroft claimed this was the first time they had been involved in ball tampering. However footage has emerged of Bancroft putting sugar in his pocket during the Ashes:

alfie wrote:Well Lehmann bowed to the inevitable and resigned ...as I thought , but perhaps quicker than I expected. Regardless of what he did or didn't know about the sandpaper plot he was not the man to lead this Australian team on the path to redemption - which may take a while.

Guildford asking re local attitudes : actually mood here seems to be generally harsher on the players than much of the overseas comments !  
I've not had an opportunity to discuss with my cricket contacts , other than family ; but as an example the most sympathy for Smith I've heard came from a South African with whom I work - he reckoned the bans are a bit OTT. The Aussies in my office are mostly ready to throw away the key...
Think it is the feeling of being so badly let down that has made the most impact.  Suspect there will eventually be a bit of a pull back , and people will be prepared to give them a second chance after doing their time...but I'd be surprised to see , say , Smith ever back as captain.  Warner is gathering the most venom : he's really not the most likable fellow on the evidence of his public behavior and I think both the public and the cricket community have had enough of him so I doubt he will be back.
Bancroft really has made a mess of his chance : silly enough to do the dirty stuff in the first place , concealing the evidence (clumsily) and then still lying about the actual implement even when "coming clean" !
Dumb and dishonest. Slightly shorter ban as I guess he is seen as easily influenced ; but he will need to score buckets of runs in the future to be considered again , you'd think. Character comes into selection - or should , if you want a really good team.

Reckon Smith will bat for Australia again unless the effect of this whole thing - which has clearly shocked him right out of the unreal bubble world he seemed to be living in at the initial press conference - causes him to come completely unglued. But as I say he surely can never lead again.

And what do I think of the penalties myself ?  Hmm. Have to be honest I'm not absolutely sure. Originally I felt losing their positions , with a further ban of X number of matches , would be appropriate - considering return to the side couldn't be guaranteed.  The severe bans (whole next first class seasons)  are heavier than previous ball tamperers have faced : big element of sending a message in those sanctions.  Guess on balance they can't complain : but when you take the loss of income from IPL into account they've certainly paid a very heavy price !

I never liked Smith all that much (perhaps my adopted Victorian status ) but I do still regret seeing such a fine batsman cut down in his prime...Shakespeare could have made a great play out of the whole sorry saga.

All still leaves me feeling rather flat : cricket doesn't seem quite as much fun right now.  It will get better...

Thanks, Alfie. Interesting and appreciated. I was also curious as to the local view of Lehmann as I thought his credibility was shot and his position untenable. However, things have moved on since then with his resignation. I just hope it's not seen as him doing the honourable thing - him and honour had parted ways some time back.

I would say, like in a lot of jobs when an employee has overstepped the mark, I would guess CA told Lehmann he either resigned or he would be sacked. He took the slightly more dignified route and resigned. He went from a position of he wouldn't resign to redigning within 24 hours.

No name Bertie wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:Did anybody listen to Lehmann's comments about it all. Far too much consolation for the cheats and admiration and concern for them and precious little condemnation. If he never played a part in it then just call me Ruud Gulitt from now on as I'm a Dutchman.

At the time, I thought it sounded strange - it wasn't in keeping with the repentant tone and shock expressed by others.  On second thoughts I thought he was taking the coaching attitude of trying to protect and encourage his players.  However I imagine there were complaints behind the scene and probably this led to his about turn in staying on.  That is to say, it seems likely Cricket Australia were not too pleased with that, nor probably "social media", and so very likely pressure was placed on him to resign otherwise he would have been sacked.

From the BBC here is another view of the situation from former test umpire John Holder who thought that the actions were comparable to and in some ways worse than the Pakistani Spot Fixing Incident which led to prison, outright bans, longer term suspensions for those involved:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/43571149

Strong words from John Holder and I'm not sure (even) I would go as far as him and/or put the illegality of spot fixing on a par with the cheating through ball tampering. However, his opinion shouldn't be just tossed aside - he's a very experienced guy in our game. I met him once at Guildford a long time ago when he was umpiring a county match - I still remember his appreciation of and commitment to the game being clearly shown. I also recall him getting annoyed in that match when the players from both sides were taking too long in getting back on the pitch following a rain break - unlike other officials from that era (especially the then derided and now somehow reinvented Dickie Bird) he saw an important part of his job to give the paying public as much cricket to watch as possible. All credit to him for that!

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:I think the bans are harsh but it’s not PC, it’s money. They don’t care about the public as much as what the sponsors and TV companies think of the public.

Magellan have pulled the plug on their sponsorship deal of Tests in Australia as a result of this, only one year into a three year deal. And CA are in the middle of negotiating the TV rights again at the moment. As always, money talks.

The monetary effect will be considerable all round ...

The players - certainly Smith and Warner - have lost huge amounts in IPL contracts and sponsorship (Commonwealth Bank has dumped Smith , etc) - and as noted above Magellan are first big team sponsor to walk away ...and may not be the last.

LD pointed to the impact of Channel Nine committing big money to the tennis deal...really does look as if Cricket Australia will be struggling to sell the rights for anything like what they wanted , in the light of these events. Quite apart from the likelihood of diminished public interest in the national team contributing to a slide in TV ratings.

Sad thing is this will likely mean less money trickling down to grass roots cricket. The innocent to suffer along with the guilty...

Yeah, such are the harsh consequence of their actions.

Must admit I was a little annoyed when Bancroft said "... what really tears my heart apart..." - I was then expecting him to say something along the lines of letting his country and the fans down - but instead he said "I've given away my spot... let others take it..."

I thought that was a very selfish and narrow minded thing to say. Just shows you how much he had deluded himself and it is very much in the 'I'm so angry I got caught' kind of thinking. I do not have much sympathy for him after hearing him utter those words. He's not much of a team player in my opinion. I hope Renshaw and Burns perform much better in his place.

The Loaded Dog wrote:Yeah, such are the harsh consequence of their actions.

Must admit I was a little annoyed when Bancroft said "... what really tears my heart apart..." - I was then expecting him to say something along the lines of letting his country and the fans down - but instead he said "I've given away my spot... let others take it..."

I thought that was a very selfish and narrow minded thing to say. Just shows you how much he had deluded himself and it is very much in the 'I'm so angry I got caught' kind of thinking. I do not have much sympathy for him after hearing him utter those words. He's not much of a team player in my opinion. I hope Renshaw and Burns perform much better in his place.

So true LD, I expected the usual stuff that is usually said in that situation, even though it was a bit late to have regrets for damaging the reputation of the baggy green. one would have thought crossing the Indian Ocean might have given one ample time to prepare a few sentences.

Don't think Bancroft is the sharpest knife in the drawer...

LD is right though ...incredibly self centered and insensitive thing to say when supposedly apologizing to a shattered fan base. Can't even follow the PR coaching.

Between you and me alfie, I reckon he looks like a typical petty cri....

Oh...ok... my lunch is ready.

LD - Am I right in saying that its not so much the ball tampering that's gotten these guys in hot water (cricket probably has a tampering scandal every 12 months and I don't think anyone's ever been banned for it) but the premeditated nature of it? Then the conspiracy to distort the truth as well as the fact that this scandal was seen as representative of the team culture?

Hi Raf, long time no see. I hope all is well.

I think you're right. The whole shoddy way it was planned, executed and the quick admission (with a few lies) afterwards and distortion of the truth as you say... all soaked up in a soup of vile culture and behaviour.

As Mickey has said; the whole team culture went downhill (again) after he was relieved of his post... and the dirt naturally rose to the surface.
I'm actually glad the bubble has burst. It will be interesting to see if they can salvage a tiny bit of dignity at Jo'burg today. I hope they can.

If this isn't the definition of a wake up call; I don't know what is. I wish the remaining players well. I like Tim Paine's personality and think he has the right stuff to be a good leader and perform well on the field too. We are not all terrible people after all.

Good luck to the Proteas too, mate!

I guess the one crumb of comfort is that out of this chaos arises an opportunity : if Paine can lead his cobbled together outfit to a commendable - not necessarily winning , but good - performance , and do it playing in an honourable manner it will be the first step on a long road back...

Exactly aflie. Exactly.
I'm not expecting miracles. SA are a tight unit. They will be driven to put Australia to the sword and achieve a convincing 3-1 series win.

Reading the statements from the Australian Cricketer's Association and prominent ex cricketers, I can see they and lawyers having these bans greatly reduced and the only real casualty turning into James Sutherland.

Oh gawd...lawyers at 22 yards ? I fear you could be right , hope... At least that the bans might be challenged.
But whatever they do they can't force the selectors to pick them , can they ?
Or even their States.

I really disliked seeing Smith cry, to me it seemed to be fake and an attempt to get people to feel sorry for him.
I don't think anyone is innocent of not lying or cheating in their lives (I know I have at times) but it is always a calculated risk to do so I have very little sympathy for them.

That said, I do not feel that they should be vilified.

I fell out if love with our cricket team about 10 years ago but this has made me realise I'm still involved even if no longer in love.

IMO The planning, whatever that amounted to,  isnt the real dodgey of what they have done.  I don't personally accept that the other players, captains and senior players,  who have been found guilty of ball tampering came up with it 30 secs before they did it, nor have they been less disingenuous in the aftermath of being caught.   Have any of them thrown up their hands without bs as to what they were doing?  From my bit of research the answer is no. They all trier to dodge and deny.

Appealing the decision is a right of the rule of law, for sure, but if your guilty of the offence, you are still trying to wiggle out by lodging an appeal.

I don't think our guys are more guilty on offence, planning or cover up, but they've held themselves out as a benchmark and talked down on others.   On that pretention, which they have proved is all it is, they deserve to be dealt with more heavily. But at the end of bans, which ar  heavy but fair,  I'll be happy for them to try to get back. If bet they'll each be mentally broke and not return but maybe they will.

[quote="No name Bertie"]Both Smith and Bancroft claimed this was the first time they had been involved in ball tampering.  However footage has emerged of Bancroft putting sugar in his pocket during the Ashes:
[/quote

It's pretty hard to know what he doing there. And putting something in your pocket is only proof that you put something in your pocket.

boomeranga wrote:

No name Bertie wrote:Both Smith and Bancroft claimed this was the first time they had been involved in ball tampering.  However footage has emerged of Bancroft putting sugar in his pocket during the Ashes:
[/quote

It's pretty hard to know what he doing there.  And putting something in your pocket is only proof that you put something in your pocket.

But who puts sugar in their pocket and why? It is an odd enough thing to do and even more suspicious when it is done by someone found guilty of ball tampering.

Press conference going on with Warner who fails to realise that his ''wish to take full responsibility'' does not square with his avoidance of the direct questions put to him.

Someone's clearly told Warner that Smith's tears went down well. Cringeworthy to watch.

Probably the most honest of the three press conferences. Clearly didn’t want to lie but also didn’t want to go against the party line that no one else was involved.

If (as rumoured) Bancroft and Warner are going to appeal the sanctions imposed they may need to be more forthright as to who else was involved at Newlands, and whether they had done this in prior games.

Actually the Aussie media were quite reserved.