European Champions Cup quarter-final: Leinster v Saracens

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Leinster - Saracens game should be a very good one, both proper heavyweights of European rugby.

I have not seen much of Saracens to adjudge their form but Leinster have been very good this year in the Pro-14 and at home, I would have them as favourites.

Saracens: Goode; L Williams, Bosch, Barritt (c), Maitland; Farrell, Wigglesworth; M Vunipola, George, Figallo, Itoje, Kruis, Isiekwe, Burger, Wray.

Replacements: Brits, Barrington, Lamositele, Day, Cowan, Spencer, Lozowski, Wyles.

Leinster: Kearney; McFadden, Ringrose, Nacewa (c), Lowe; Sexton, McGrath; Healy, Cronin, Furlong, Toner, Ryan, Fardy, Leavy, Murphy.

Replacements: Tracy, McGrath, Porter, Ruddock, Deegan, McCarthy, Carbery, O'Loughlin.

Best of luck to both teams but I would personally love Leinster to win

No.7 I am a Munster supporter so I don’t get any joy out of these games suffice to say since the last round of the champions cup I reckon Leinster have had winner stamped all over them. Today’s game once sexton got fouled and Leinster got angry it was game over. Seen it too many times with Leinster. Saracens gave it a go but the result was inevitable.

I don't support any club team. Maybe doncaster at a push as I attend a fair few games but I'm not from here. From where I watched it up to it looked to me as saracens fairly cynical plan was working. After wigglesworth got penalised it was sexton reacting badly which immediately led to a response. I only saw up to the leavy try though. Can't say what happened which changed after that?

I would just like to mention James Ryan. That lad is a fricking machine. Has he taken itoje out of his pocket and given him back to Saracens yet?
And leavy is pretty special too. Is there genuinely a better 7 playing at the moment

Geen sport voor watjes wrote:No.7 I am a Munster supporter so I don’t get any joy out of these games suffice to say since the last round of the champions cup I reckon Leinster have had winner stamped all over them. Today’s game once sexton got fouled and Leinster got angry it was game over. Seen it too many times with Leinster. Saracens gave it a go but the result was inevitable.

Sexton has probably taken worse hits in training. Leinster new that Sarries had little impact on the bench and we're starting with three locks. They were playing into the wind in the first half so it was a case of attacking on the break and keeping Sarries from scoring tries. In the second half Leinster had the wind and knew that they had the more explosive pack. Given ball and territory they backed themselves to outscore a tiring Sarries pack that was too depleted to live with them.

Mention for the ref who had a cracking game, not perfect but a lot better than some we've seen recently.

It's an oversimplification, but yesterday's game followed a similar pattern to recent meetings between English and Irish sides. The English side was abrasive but attacks fizzled out through mistakes and strong defence. Meanwhile, the Irish side took most of their opportunities, especially when they had momentum.

carpet baboon wrote:And leavy is pretty special too. Is there genuinely a better 7 playing at the moment

Erm....Sam Cane, Michael Hooper, David Pocock, Ardie Savea?

Sgt_Pooly wrote:

carpet baboon wrote:And leavy is pretty special too. Is there genuinely a better 7 playing at the moment

Erm....Sam Cane, Michael Hooper, David Pocock, Ardie Savea?

Pfffff can they don't on a wet weekend in Dublin ?

carpet baboon wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:

carpet baboon wrote:And leavy is pretty special too. Is there genuinely a better 7 playing at the moment

Erm....Sam Cane, Michael Hooper, David Pocock, Ardie Savea?

Pfffff can they don't on a wet weekend in Dublin ?

You're changing the goalposts Carpet!

carpet baboon wrote:I would just like to mention James Ryan. That lad is a fricking machine. Has he taken itoje out of his pocket and given him back to Saracens yet?
And leavy is pretty special too. Is there genuinely a better 7 playing at the moment

I said before that I think he is going to be as good if not better than POC. He is simply brilliant at such a young age.

eirebilly wrote:

carpet baboon wrote:I would just like to mention James Ryan. That lad is a fricking machine. Has he taken itoje out of his pocket and given him back to Saracens yet?
And leavy is pretty special too. Is there genuinely a better 7 playing at the moment

I said before that I think he is going to be as good if not better than POC. He is simply brilliant at such a young age.

It's frightening you know, this child is tearing up seasoned internationals at every step like weeds. What do you think he'll want to be when he grows up? I hope it's a rugby player.
The phrase 'boys against men' takes on a completely new meaning, I can imagine POC is looking for a pair of James Ryan pyjamas as we speak.

Great game,great result.Mad to think that at the start of the season the backrow we put out would be 6th , 7th and 8th choice.The young lads coming through are freakishly good.
Saracens gave it a real go,never gave up even when it looked like we might overwhelm them,they’re an excellent side.

Saracens' error count ballooned in the 2nd half - from only 1 handling error in the first half to 8 in the 2nd.

Sure it's partly down to pressure from Leinster defensively but passes weren't sticking.

The game was decided in the middle period from 38th minute where Leinster didn't concede before half time and piling on the points after the 2nd half.

I think Leinster were lucky to be gifted 3 points on a tackle which didn't seem particularly bad by Mako but Leinster were the better team.


It's true about Wigglesworth - so ponderous. He's got away in the past with having an in form front five to paper over cracks but his lack of pace is a real issue.


Burger - well he was just poor.


I think Saracens can get themselves back to where they were but need to have significant improvement in the backrow, centres and scrum half.

Also superior impact off the bench.

England and all English clubs have to look at why it's Ireland's year - breakdown is key.

Saracens started to drop passes when they tried to up the pace to match Leinster

The issue for Arries and the english clubs is that the different leagues are moving apart in style of rugby and the pro 14 style of attacking from deep and playing at pace and for breakdowns works well against the stodgier english style

TJ wrote:Saracens started to drop passes when they tried to up the pace to match Leinster

The issue for Arries and the english clubs is that the different leagues are moving apart in style of rugby and the pro 14 style of attacking from deep and playing at pace and for breakdowns works well against the stodgier english style

And if they do withdraw teams from the euro comps that would lead to less exposure to that style and potentially make England fall behind.
Or ringfencing the prem could encourage a more attacking open game plan, (if that is the case I would like everyone who abused the pro14 for no relegation to write a full letter of apology)

Saracens just haven't adapted, it happens.

The Irish teams are having their fun in the sun but it was only last year and the year before that England and Saracens were top dogs in Europe.

England and Saracens vulnerabilities aren't so different IMO.

Lack of ability at 9 - with Youngs injured, England badly exposed here. Wigglesworth - too slow.

Breakdown/no Billy - of course both teams badly missing big man Billy.  Being outfought/outworked/outpaced.

Centres - lack of form/attacking threat.


I don't believe England and Saracens are so off the pace that it will take that long.

They just need to fix long term issues.

Saracens have relied on Barritt/Bosch too long - time for some young blood I feel even though both have worked hard.

Need to look at replacing Wigglesworth.


I'd like Saracens look at developing Ben Earl.


Also Saracens copied England by playing a 2nd row in the backrow! Only a 19 year old!

I think people are overreacting to the Pro14 teams dominance this season.Leinster .Munster and Scarlets have all been building for a few years now and it’s coming together but it will swing back again and then we’ll all be moaning about how we can’t match the big spending Top14 and Aviva Prem sides.

asoreleftshoulder wrote:I think people are overreacting to the Pro14 teams dominance this season.Leinster .Munster and Scarlets have all been building for a few years now and it’s coming together but it will swing back again and then we’ll all be moaning about how we can’t match the big spending Top14 and Aviva Prem sides.

Probably a lot of wisdom in that but I do think we’ll see some changes, just not wholesale changes.

TJ wrote:Saracens started to drop passes when they tried to up the pace to match Leinster

The issue for Arries and the english clubs is that the different leagues are moving apart in style of rugby and the pro 14 style of attacking from deep and playing at pace and for breakdowns works well against the stodgier english style

Exeter and Saracens play a very different game to Leinster (but also to each other). Now while Leinster, Scarlets and Glasgow try to play one way, other teams in the Pro14 play a different way. I do not see a uniform style. Same can be said about the AP. Wasps style of play is as far from Sarries as Leinster's is.

For sure tiger - but there are similarities / trends across the leagues. In the pro 14 most of the decent teams will attack from deep, attack breakdowns and also play at a higher tempo with more ball in play time. For example on passage of play when Sarries had kicked the ball deep for a Leinster lineouut. they were expecting a kick back but instead leinster ran the ball back making good ground. Another pro 14 team would not have been suckered in the same way as many pro 14 teams do this. Its also speed V power and bringing on youngsters

To be fair Sarries have been carrying he English torch for the second year in Europe.  If Sarries were in the T14 or Pro 14 they would be top 4 no problem.  It is the other teams who have shown poor form in Europe.

There are issues in the English game with lack of ideas and doing the same thing over and over again.  Sarries are a well oiled machine who work as a team and understand why they do it and usually adapt in game.  Others not so much so we have seen some real spankings give to English teams that never would have happened before.  Yes they would have lost but not by 30+ points and definitely not more than once

I think the coaching issue may well be a large part of this. Look at what cockerill has brought to Edinburgh. a good coach seems to make a huge difference.

Sarries would do well in the pro 14 no doubt.

Cockerill always added a lot in my eyes to Leicester. Horrendous with the amount he complains about refs. His main downfall was recruitment but not sure how much that was down to him.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:

carpet baboon wrote:And leavy is pretty special too. Is there genuinely a better 7 playing at the moment

Erm....Sam Cane, Michael Hooper, David Pocock, Ardie Savea?

Not sure any of those guys are necessarily better. Ireland have dominated the breakdown against NZ in the last few head to heads and players like Van Der Flier and O'Brien outshone Cane on each of those occasions. Leavy IMO is as good as if not better than each of them at this point. Cane is a good hard worker but not an outstanding 7 IMO.

Pocock hasn't been consistently a force for some time really. Id rather have Leavy than him.

Hooper is a great player, good in the loose and good at the breakdown so maybe he is better than Leavy.

Ardie Savea is a meat head, good in the loose with plenty of ballast but not much else. Definitely prefer Leavy.