The we're on our way back -Bradford Thread

[Luke]

First topic message reminder :

Just for you Beast.

Things going well on and off the pitch, promotion back up to the Championship hopefully.

And stupids rows with Workington what else could you want.

[Luke]

Agree the rent is crippling.
But don't the rfl have to agree a move? And not sure they will.

[The Beast]

Agree the rent is crippling.
But don't the rfl have to agree a move? And not sure they will.

It got to be possible but as previously mentioned IMO the RFL are in a difficult position and won't of course want to lose their £72k p.a rent however;

There are precedents where teams have been allowed at alternative venues outside of their respective cities e.g. Sheffield at Doncaster, (Wakefield at Dewsbury was also agreed).

They have forced Bradford to play at Odsal for 3 years as part of the agreement to form the new club which they have.

The lease ends at the end of September.

I am not legally trained but to force them to play at Odsal sounds like a short cut to litigation. Secondly the owner could walk away, good luck to finding someone to run a club on the basis that they face £500k p.a. costs just to run the ground. Wakefield and Hull KR chairman have reportedly shown an interest in taking the lease however I assume this was a wind up,a, what would they do with the ground and b, if Bradford can't play away from their home city presumably nor can anyone else.

For what it is worth I still hope somehow Bradford go back to Odsal,

[George Hotel1895]

Agree the rent is crippling.
But don't the rfl have to agree a move? And not sure they will.

It got to be possible but as previously mentioned IMO the RFL are in a difficult position and won't of course want to lose their £72k p.a rent however;  

There are precedents where teams have been allowed at alternative venues outside of their respective cities e.g. Sheffield at Doncaster, (Wakefield at Dewsbury was also agreed).  

They have forced Bradford to play at Odsal for 3 years as part of the agreement to form the new club which they have.  

The lease ends at the end of September.

I am not legally trained but to force them to play at Odsal sounds like a short cut to litigation.  Secondly the owner could walk away, good luck to finding someone to run a club on the basis that they face £500k p.a. costs just to run the ground.  Wakefield and Hull KR chairman have reportedly shown an interest in taking the lease however I assume this was a wind up,a, what would they do with the ground and b, if Bradford can't play away from their home city presumably nor can anyone else.

For what it is worth I still hope somehow Bradford go back to Odsal,

It is my opinion that if Bradford leave Odsal it will be many years if ever they play in Bradford again , and will never play in Super League again
I think the club has zero money so can't buy land to build a new stadium.
The RFL has zero money so wont have any money to loan the Bulls.
Bradford Council have zero money so wont be able to build the Bulls a new stadium or even update Odsal.
I know nothing about Chalmers, but if he thinks he can get money out of the RFL or Bradford council by threatening to move out of Bradford he's sadly mistaken as they don't have any
If i was a Bulls fan i would seriously worry about the future of the club right now.

[Luke]

The RFL have reluctantly agreed to Bradford playing at Dewsbury for 2020 season, and only that season.
The problem being that Bradford's plans lack creditability on moving back to Bradford. And also a lack of explanation as to the finical aspect this moves effects the club.

If you have threatened/ pulled up on leaving a city on the statement that you'll move back in the near future. You'd think that they'd be doing everything to have a plan and lay the foundations.

[The Beast]

I was not unduly concerned until I read the full statement last night RFL Statement

Now however yes very much so. I have so say IMHO the statement itself is poorly worded and sounds very much like a teenager whose pocket money has been stopped.

Clearly moving back to Bradford isn't going to be anytime soon and yes there may well be a reduction on the gate but the £500k vacuum sucking the life out the club has gone.

It is very possible the situation is worse than anyone really knows but I await Chalmers response with significant concerns that it will include administration/liquidation. Who will run a Championship RL club out of Odsal?

Incidentally James Green is first out (they cannot offer a new contract) on his way to York.

[George Hotel1895]

The RFL have reluctantly agreed to Bradford playing at Dewsbury for 2020 season, and only that season.
The problem being that Bradford's plans lack creditability on moving back to Bradford. And also a lack of explanation as to the finical aspect this moves effects the club.

If you have threatened/ pulled up on leaving a city on the statement that you'll move back in the near future. You'd think that they'd be doing everything to have a plan and lay the foundations.

At this stage i can't see where the money is going to come from to build a new stadium in Bradford or refurbish Odsal.
The Bulls, the RFL and Bradford council are penniless.
Whether is Dewsbury or any other club the Bulls share with, when that club see's how much the Bulls are saving that club will want part of that pie. Chalmers in my opinion is taking the Bulls down a very dangerous path.

[The Beast]

Couldn't agree more with the sentiments concerning a new stadium in Bradford, look at Wakefield or York.

Bradford are paying Dewsbury so I assuming they are are happy and benefiting from the ground share presumably including match day revenues (parking/food/drink).

No doubt it is a risk I am assuming the decision making process is that they simply cannot not carry on at Odsal under the same conditions. I would rather them pull the plug today than slowly sink down......again.

I think that the RFL who granted are in a difficult position risk renting a hole in the ground and losing a historical member club and fans. Re-reading their statement I would like to know how Bradford's decision to move is "poor" for anyone other than themselves.

[Luke]

That I didn't get. Although there has been rumours flying around that it was the RFL who payed the players last month.
The best thing that anyone can do at this moment, is instead of this game of one up manship. Just come out and clarify what is going on, and how they are aiming to improve it.
Because reading on other sites, it looks like this could be the final straw for alot of fans.

[George Hotel1895]

I don't like to play politics, but sport and politics are intrinsically linked.
There were strong rumours going around before the brexit vote that the RFL were going to move lock, stock and barrel to Odsal and the whole stadium was going to be modernised with EU funding, and the RFL were going to play CC semi finals there along with internationals and of course it would still have been the Bulls home ground Obviously with the way the vote went that won't happen now, but i do say rumour.

[The Beast]

My understanding is that Odsal was considered by the RFL including a museum (ironic now), however they selected the wendyball stadium in Manchester which in fairness is understandable. Not sure how/if Brexit influenced the decision.

There was a radio programme earlier in the week, Pulse 2, Robbie Hunter Paul Show. Bulls commentator and RL journalist Mick Gledhill spoke to the RFL prior and reported;

The RFL will take over responsibility for Odsal as early as Sunday night, fans asked/warned not to grab souvenirs. This I have to say is a concern of mine, there are a lot of fans who have been going there for decades and emotions may well be high.

The Bulls have been in special measures for several weeks to prevent the club overspending on playing wages. Now this really blows my mind, if this is correct the RFL are concerned Bradford are overspending on wages BUT considered the decision to cut significant costs by moving to Dewsbury as a "poor". Sorry bullsh**t

As it stands Bradford will reportedly have 12 players for next season + the academy. Luke you mentioned fans being disillusioned and here it is, in theory (at the moment at least) a better position than 2017 but as mentioned a lot will not want to watch a repeat of that farce.

[George Hotel1895]

My understanding is that Odsal was considered by the RFL including a museum (ironic now), however they selected the wendyball stadium in Manchester which in fairness is understandable.  Not sure how/if Brexit influenced the decision.

There was a radio programme earlier in the week, Pulse 2, Robbie Hunter Paul Show.  Bulls commentator and RL journalist Mick Gledhill spoke to the RFL prior and reported;

The RFL will take over responsibility for Odsal as early as Sunday night, fans asked/warned not to grab souvenirs. This I have to say is a concern of mine, there are a lot of fans who have been going there for decades and emotions may well be high.

The Bulls have been in special measures for several weeks to prevent the club overspending on playing wages.  Now this really blows my mind, if this is correct the RFL are concerned Bradford are overspending on wages BUT considered the decision to cut significant costs by moving to Dewsbury as a "poor". Sorry bullsh**t

As it stands Bradford will reportedly have 12 players for next season + the academy.  Luke you mentioned fans being disillusioned and here it is, in theory (at the moment at least) a better position than 2017 but as mentioned a lot will not want to watch a repeat of that farce.

To be honest i think the Bulls are withering on the vine, and unless anything dramatic happens they wont ever be returning to play in Bradford and will certainly never play in Super League again.

[Luke]

So 7,500 turn out to see what could be the last ever game at odsal on sun. And a good win.

But more worrying is the complete lack of answers. There was a players meeting on Saturday with them wanting to know what's going on. John Kear apparently didn't know about the special measures till reading about them in the media. There's needs to be a transparency with what's happening, especially given the last 2 administration's.

[The Beast]

I agree Kear not being told about Special Measures is very poor.

I don't think there was much in the players meeting, of course they will need an update. Certainly has not affected them on the pitch it is a shame the season is ending as there is close to a full strength squad and the quality of play has improved significantly.

No doubt there are more developments to come.....nervous and concerning times.

[George Hotel1895]

Very worrying for all Bradford Bulls fans

[The Beast]

Very worrying for all Bradford Bulls fans

Yes, interesting comments from Andrew Chalmers regarding Odsal;

Andrew Chalmers Column

I am just listening to the Bulls/Rochdale game (feel a for Rochdale who are being hammered) Andrew Chalmers has just been on the radio backing this up by saying he can see a route back to Odsal, however as a fan this needs a lot more meat on the bones. The RFL to give up the lease, why would they? How much money needs to be spent on Odsal to make a difference? If 100 fans raised £1k each would that be enough and for how long? What would fans get back? A brick with names i.e. The Beast?

The good news is that Chalmers said he spoke to the RFL on Friday and Saturday and hopes to be out of special measures "sooner rather than later".

Bradford now 56 - 0 up, i am listening whilst popping outside, there is an annual World War II airshow a stones throw away, a spitfire has just flown over the house which doesn't happen every day!

[George Hotel1895]

Very worrying for all Bradford Bulls fans

Yes, interesting comments from Andrew Chalmers regarding Odsal;

Andrew Chalmers Column

I am just listening to the Bulls/Rochdale game (feel a for Rochdale who are being hammered) Andrew Chalmers has just been on the radio backing this up by saying he can see a route back to Odsal, however as a fan this needs a lot more meat on the bones.  The RFL to give up the lease, why would they?  How much money needs to be spent on Odsal to make a difference?  If 100 fans raised £1k each would that be enough and for how long?  What would fans get back?  A brick with names i.e. The Beast?

The good news is that Chalmers said he spoke to the RFL on Friday and Saturday and hopes to be out of special measures "sooner rather than later".

Bradford now 56 - 0 up, i am listening whilst popping outside, there is an annual World War II airshow a stones throw away, a spitfire has just flown over the house which doesn't happen every day!

I think Chalmers is grasping at straws with this one
In my opinion if they leave Bradford they will never return.

[The Beast]

Bradford beating Rochdale 82 - 0 on Sunday. Felt sympathy with the home fans, not nice to see.

On a lighter note from 03:00 a unique try, Ryan should be announced as a KR player shortly.

Try of the Season?

[Luke]

2 things from reading Chambers column.
1) he sounds like a man who never expected it to go as far as it has. And fully expected someone to step up and do something to keep the side at odsal.
2) why doesn't he mention what the special measures are, and how they're going to get out if them.

[The Beast]

2 things from reading Chambers column.
1) he sounds like a man who never expected it to go as far as it has. And fully expected someone to step up and do something to keep the side at odsal.
2) why doesn't he mention what the special measures are, and how they're going to get out if them.

1, Perhaps yes and possibly linked to my reading into this particular piece being his realisation that the Bulls link to Odsal runs deep amongst fans. That said after the Dewsbury news dies down I do think a good percentage will stick with the club.

2, Agreed however his latest column is here which is an indication Players Leaving

This does contain two words that I really really did not want to read, yes DUAL ******* REGISTRATION. I simply hate the idea much more than moving from Odsal. In time I might feel the same as Odsal i.e. needs must, beggars/choosers and that other clubs do the same (with significant success e.g. Fev, York). This won't stop me from supporting the club but I hope it is not silly numbers that we have seen recently and for balance I am pleased to read that the club are continuing to improve the Academy with more off-field resources (physio's).

To be the best of my knowledge Ethan Ryan (Hull KR), Matty Wildie (Leigh), James Green (York), Matt Garside (Fax).

[The Beast]

Oh there speculation who the DR partner will be, I suspect Toronto if they are promoted.

[George Hotel1895]

2 things from reading Chambers column.
1) he sounds like a man who never expected it to go as far as it has. And fully expected someone to step up and do something to keep the side at odsal.
2) why doesn't he mention what the special measures are, and how they're going to get out if them.

Only a fool would believe that someone would step in and keep the side at Odsal.
If he thought that the RFL and Bradford council would step up and keep them at Odsal somebody should have told him that both are basically penniless.

[The Beast]

2 things from reading Chambers column.
1) he sounds like a man who never expected it to go as far as it has. And fully expected someone to step up and do something to keep the side at odsal.
2) why doesn't he mention what the special measures are, and how they're going to get out if them.

Only a fool would believe that someone would step in and keep the side at Odsal.
If he thought that the RFL and Bradford council would step up and keep them at Odsal somebody should have told him that both are basically penniless.

It was always going to be difficult but as mentioned no-one is likely to play at Odsal under the current T's & C's. The RFL's statement suggests they were expecting Chalmers to back down.

Regarding Special Measures, it is hoped to be resolved in the next few weeks, season tickets are reportedly up compared to the same time last year and costs have reduced from £30k to £2k to host a game. Fingers crossed.

[The Beast]

Some bad news on the way IF rumours are true. Gareth Carvell has left however they may be due to changes to Academy structures, there is however talk of senior players leaving due to missed pension payments. Now I am becoming seriously concerned.

[Luke]

Looks like Chambers could be selling, to Koucash if the rumours are true.

[The Beast]

Well something has been brewing for the past few days and here it is;

Bradford Bulls to be sold

No idea who is buying the club apparently however it is not Koukash as some have speculated. Not much else to say yet, more news to follow I guess.

[The Beast]

Looks like Chambers could be selling, to Koucash if the rumours are true.

Sorry Luke you just beat me to it. Apparently not Koukash but i have no idea. I think there is quite a lot more to come, whether it's made public is another matter and whether the this thread needs to be changed remains to be seen.

I hope however it is not forgotten that whatever has happened Andrew Chalmers dragged the club from basically nowhere. He may have made mistakes but he tried to do things the right way.

[The Beast]

OK, looks like former Wakey director Chris Brereton will be leading the consortium?

From what I can gather from a reliable source at least some of the 14 contracted players will (via what method I am unsure) NOT be at the club next year? More meat on the bones required as someone has got to pull the shirt on........

[Luke]

Was just going to put that it was Brereton.

This raises more questions, like are Bradford still at a Dewsbury next season.
Sooner or later someone is just going to have to come out and start saying to the fans what is actually happening.

[The Beast]

There are a number of questions, not many were answered after liquidation so I am certainly not holding my breath.

Assuming the club do exist next year then Odsal I am sure will be a factor however it comes back to the same question, who is going to pay £500k* p.a. just to play at the ground? At a guess salaries are in the £450k - £600k mark it would be madness to pay the same again in rent/maintenance etc unless they go part time/amateur in which case who is going to pay to watch?

Here is another, what do John Kear and staff make of this?

* If that is correct it can be no surprise that the club has been completely knackered for these years.

[The Beast]

Update;

The sale of the club is still going through with parties checking on exactly what debts the club owe and to who.

There is a meeting on Friday where the RFL decide if the new owners can take control (assuming this is taking the first line into consideration that they still want to).

Player of the Year for 2019 Jake Webster has left to join Keighley (who I notice have also signed Mo Agoro) as player and to take a community role. James Green is confirmed to York, Jon Magrin to Dewsbury. Pretty sure there are more to leave particularly whoever claimed breach of contract, presumably now in the market for a new club. This is all depressing familiar, I do feel for those who have purchased season tickets the only hope is that a new consortium will go through and be positive news.

[Luke]

Reading about it in league weekly this is poor, and like you say depressingly familiar. James Green has apparently been paying into the pension scheme, whilst not recieving it. As have a few other players. Through in the fact the club has racked up numerous debts the last few months, whilst the RFL has again been giving advances (which presumably they're going to want back). Plus demands for monies owed to clubs, agents,suppliers etc.
You begin to understand the special measures, but this is leaving them behind the 8 ball again before the season starts.
Genuinely feel for the loyal fans, but got to wonder how the club can keep finding itself in the same mess.

[The Beast]

Reading about it in league weekly this is poor, and like you say depressingly familiar. James Green has apparently been paying into the pension scheme, whilst not recieving it. As have a few other players. Through in the fact the club has racked up numerous debts the last few months, whilst the RFL has again been giving advances (which presumably they're going to want back). Plus demands for monies owed to clubs, agents,suppliers etc.
You begin to understand the special measures, but this is leaving them behind the 8 ball again before the season starts.
Genuinely feel for the loyal fans, but got to wonder how the club can keep finding itself in the same mess.

I saw that (Pension) and immediately thought that cannot be right however IF these sources reporting these figures are correct it IMO it needs to be investigated formally.

From i can gather there are more skeletons being found in the closet which is delaying the takeover process.

In answer to your (perhaps rhetorical question) it is frankly extraordinary that one club with various board members/owners can have so many issues. Whilst a fan at this stage, I wouldn't argue if someone simply said enough is enough, if the sale does not go through I think that might just do that.

[Luke]

Looking like could be administration again, as the takeover on the verge of pulling out.
As for the pensions thing. Your right, but this should also see people in court for fraud, theft you would think etc. Also need to find out how high up this goes, as from the sounds of it, it's deliberate not a case of an admin error.

Your final point raises an interesting question. Just when does enough become enough. 4 administrations and the constant lies about what is actually going on. And what the issues are, the fact the team don't play in Bradford now, and have very little chance of returning for a while you would think. The team building issues, sooner or later this has to effect the fans.

It also raises bigger questions, as to who is to blame. Abd why.

[The Beast]

Craig Harrison et al come straight to the point during this weeks' Super League Back chat. From 45:30 mark;

Disgraceful Situation at Bradford

We await news............

[Luke]

That's an interesting point when he brings up money from season tickets.

[George Hotel1895]

If the rumours are true about the huge debts and non payment of pension payments i can't see anybody wanting to take over.
I really can't see Marwan Koukash wanting to take over with the huge debts and payments due. It cost him a fortune at the Red Devils and can't see him doing it again

[The Beast]

I would have said Chris Brereton however he has withdrawn from the consortium. The consortium continue to work with the RFL and tomorrow's Fans Forum is going ahead. There may be news tomorrow.

[George Hotel1895]

I would have said Chris Brereton however he has withdrawn from the consortium.  The consortium continue to work with the RFL and tomorrow's Fans Forum is going ahead.  There may be news tomorrow.

I would say there are too many unanswered questions for anybody with a successful business background to take over.
The rumour mill is saying the debts are in the 100's of thousands and that the RFL having been paying the players wages and also Bradford haven't been putting money into the players pensions.
To quash the rumours the RFL needs to put out a statement telling us all the hard facts about the clubs situation
If anybody decides to take over it is my opinion he will have to part with about a million for starters to just keep the club ticking over.

[The Beast]

Brief breaking news (which I am being fed from the forum);

Bulls are now out of special measures.

The new owners are the family of Nigel Wood, the latter not involved in the day to day business

Dewsbury Chairman Mark Sawyers is involved but he is staying at Dewsbury (??)

The "interim" chairman is Eric Perez who will work to bring in new sponsors

It is hoped the club will form better relationships with the RFL and other clubs

More players likely to leave (forgot to mention Ross Peltier to Doncaster a few days ago ) but they expect to have a "competitive squad"

John Kear and Steve Crossley (Capt.) are staying, Kear saying the squad will be smaller and it will be difficult, the Academy set up will remain. There will be dual reg.

Mark Sawyer will be working to bring the Bulls back to Odsal, talks already in place with stakeholders.

Monies owed to clubs now paid except one who are accepting instalments. Consortium aware of other debts, one to be resolved this week.

Perhaps more to come later/tomorrow/later in the week.

[George Hotel1895]

Brief breaking news (which I am being fed from the forum);

  Bulls are now out of special measures.

  The new owners are the family of Nigel Wood, the latter not involved in the day to day business

  Dewsbury Chairman Mark Sawyers is involved but he is staying at Dewsbury (??)

  The "interim" chairman is Eric Perez who will work to bring in new sponsors

  It is hoped the club will form better relationships with the RFL and other clubs

  More players likely to leave (forgot to mention Ross Peltier to Doncaster a few days ago ) but they expect to have a "competitive squad"  

  John Kear and Steve Crossley (Capt.) are staying, Kear saying the squad will be smaller and it will be difficult, the Academy set up will remain. There will be dual reg.

  Mark Sawyer will be working to bring the Bulls back to Odsal, talks already in place with stakeholders.

  Monies owed to clubs now paid except one who are accepting instalments.  Consortium aware of other debts, one to be resolved this week.

Perhaps more to come later/tomorrow/later in the week.

 

Lets hope the worse days are behind the Bulls now and they can just concentrate on Playing Rugby League.
Like Brexit I'm sick to death of the saga and want the whole thing resolved.

[The Beast]

Let's hope so for everyone's sake.

After some positive news comes the pain, Elliott Minchella, Matty Storton, Rowan Milnes, Joe Keyes and Junior Anesu Mudoti join Hull KR on 3 year deals with an undisclosed sum. Milnes is being loaned back to the Bulls for next season.

Milnes and Storton were expected but ruddy hell Mini and Keyes too, necessary yes, painful very much so. I will add to the KR thread with some info that might be of interest (when I've had a cup of tea that is).

[Luke]

You know, you really should stop just giving us your players, we seem to buy alot from you.

[Luke]

Funny bit aside. This has to be a massive blow, and I just can't see how your going to be able to put a competitive squad together. It has to be by Dr. Unless your just going with the academy, and we saw how that turned out a few years ago.
I also don't get how Sawyer can be involved, as it's against his own interests surely given his role at Dewsbury. This is an absolute mess, that I'm just not sure I can see Bradford ever getting out if. And surely for there loyal fans, just one push to many.

[George Hotel1895]

Funny bit aside. This has to be a massive blow, and I just can't see how your going to be able to put a competitive squad together. It has to be by Dr. Unless your just going with the academy, and we saw how that turned out a few years ago.
I also don't get how Sawyer can be involved, as it's against his own interests surely given his role at Dewsbury. This is an absolute mess, that I'm just not sure I can see Bradford ever getting out if. And surely for there loyal fans, just one push to many.

I think we all agree that its been a mess for a few years no and sadly we are not being told the full facts, or any facts of note.

[The Beast]

Dual Reg was confirmed at the forum which I hate but it's hobson's choice. Word is that it is Toronto and talks are on-going, with no Green, Wildie, Peltier, Mini, Storton forwards are a must.

The Sawyer link has been approved apparently on the basis he has less than 25% of the shares, where IMO it will get really murky is when Bradford play Dewsbury. The latter of course dual reg with Hull KR, and in theory could well have messrs. Minchella, Storton and Keyes in their team that day...............

Oh forgot to mention Ross Oakes and Rhys Evans have signed extensions and there is another loan player from Hull KR to come. Jy Hitchcox rumoured to be leaving.

The major plus regarding 2020 is IMO that John Kear is staying. Luke you are right there are fans that have had enough and I don't blame them, I think we should wait pre-season has not even started there is time to get a squad together.

GH, couldn't agree more some, the pensions issue if true must be investigated.

[Luke]

Unfortunately the way Thud off season your going to need it. Toronto in theory isn't a bad choice, they are top heavy with stars And would give you some decent players.
I knew about the Rovers player, can't help wondering who it is as the 2 players that are available are both backs. Potentially good young ones, but still backs.

The thing with Sawyer, isn't so much that they or he are doing anything wrong in anyway. It's just more the moral/ethically view. Personally if they were in different divisions then fine, but In the same division just seems strange, and waiting for issues.

I suppose there are only so many dramas before you do think why am I bothering. The 2 issues for me that could be a major issue for fans are, 1 squad ripped apart and not feeling like there your own team. Then the Spector of them not playing in Bradford and no immediate details of if they're coming back.

[George Hotel1895]

I like all Rugby League fans hope this is sorted out asap as its dragged on far to long now and the Bradford fans deserve better

[The Beast]

Confirmed that Sam Hallas is staying with the club and Greg Johnson is joining from Salford. Still no news on a DR partner however Ryan Brierley rumoured on a season long loan.

[Luke]

Apparently Toronto have 4 clubs to choose from, and a fairly small squad.

[George Hotel1895]

Confirmed that Sam Hallas is staying with the club and Greg Johnson is joining from Salford.  Still no news on a DR partner however Ryan Brierley rumoured on a season long loan.

I'm surprised at the Johnson signing and if i was a Bulls fan i would be delighted

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