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Post by Pedro147 on Sat 05 May 2018, 9:05 pm

Anyone watching?

Been an ok undercard so far. Martin J Ward getting stopped in the 5th was unexpected especially after having his opponent down in the 2nd.

The Joyce fight was awful, the Jamaican fella was hopeless.

Paul Butler getting beat up pretty bad but his opponent is a very classy operator.

Jack Ryder fight still to come so now a bad little card in fairness.

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Post by Pedro147 on Sat 05 May 2018, 9:34 pm

God, I can’t get a word in tonight with all these posts.

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Post by TheSquaredCircle on Sat 05 May 2018, 9:51 pm

Don’t worry about it mate. This forums gone to pot.

Martin was just in with a big puncher and took a few unnecessary shots that set up the finish.

Joe Joyce did well but I can’t help but feel Lenroy was made to look good by Dave Allen and he’s been c class all along. Joe obviously has heavy hands but nelson et al are right about him working on his personality.

Butler was just clearly outclassed by a very classy operator. Wonder if there was something amiss in camp tho, didn’t make weight, looked lost in the ring etc etc.

Jamie cox just fell over with a glancing blow to the head. Maybe been a delayed head scramble but looked like he was listening to the count but just didn’t get up before 10, threw the fight?!?

Looking forward to the main event. Haye late?

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Post by Pedro147 on Sat 05 May 2018, 10:04 pm

TheSquaredCircle wrote:Don’t worry about it mate. This forums gone to pot.

Martin was just in with a big puncher and took a few unnecessary shots that set up the finish.

Joe Joyce did well but I can’t help but feel Lenroy was made to look good by Dave Allen and he’s been c class all along. Joe obviously has heavy hands but nelson et al are right about him working on his personality.

Butler was just clearly outclassed by a very classy operator. Wonder if there was something amiss in camp tho, didn’t make weight, looked lost in the ring etc etc.

Jamie cox just fell over with a glancing blow to the head. Maybe been a delayed head scramble but looked like he was listening to the count but just didn’t get up before 10, threw the fight?!?

Looking forward to the main event. Haye late?

Butler said post fight he missed some days in camp as he was ill and that’s why he had issues with weight and performance. Not sure if it would’ve made a difference though as the guy looked a class above.

Think Ryder just scrambled Cox’s senses with the head shot, was very strange looking though.

I think Haye boxes cautiously and wins on points or late stoppage. In saying that, it’s hard to know what Haye has left as a fighter. Only fighting for money at this stage as he blew all his cash when he retired at 30.

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Post by TheSquaredCircle on Sat 05 May 2018, 10:09 pm

Yeh he missed a few days but he had 4 weeks and missed the weight by a mile and didn’t even bother agreeing to a second weigh in. Even tho he wouldn’t have made it, agreeing to it would show that he’s at least bothered about the title. Shows the mindset,lost before he even fought.

If Hayes body holds up it could be interesting, maybe haye after 6 but wonder if bellew wil start slow to try and take it to the later rounds and see how Hayes body holds up.

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Post by Pedro147 on Sat 05 May 2018, 10:14 pm

TheSquaredCircle wrote:Yeh he missed a few days but he had 4 weeks and missed the weight by a mile and didn’t even bother agreeing to a second weigh in. Even tho he wouldn’t have made it, agreeing to it would show that he’s at least bothered about the title. Shows the mindset,lost before he even fought.

If Hayes body holds up it could be interesting, maybe haye after 6 but wonder if bellew wil start slow to try and take it to the later rounds and see how Hayes body holds up.

Who do you want to win?

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Post by TheSquaredCircle on Sat 05 May 2018, 10:15 pm

Haye. If he can roll it back then I can see a massive KO

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Post by hogey on Sat 05 May 2018, 10:26 pm

Reckon Haye quick and in brutal fashion, Bellews only hope for me is another Haye injury.

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Post by Pedro147 on Sat 05 May 2018, 10:29 pm

That’s what I think will happen as I think Bellew is massively overrated.

Just not sure on Haye’s body. But if he’s 100% then I think he takes Bellew out.

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Post by No name Bertie on Sat 05 May 2018, 10:42 pm

Haye has been out for a long period of time. As long as Bellew doesn't get careless, I think Bellew won't be knocked out. With Haye, I don't know - maybe he will tire in the later rounds.

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Post by hogey on Sat 05 May 2018, 10:49 pm

Haye looking very controlled in there so far

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Post by hogey on Sat 05 May 2018, 10:54 pm

Until then, looks like his punch resistance has gone time to hang em up

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Post by No name Bertie on Sat 05 May 2018, 10:54 pm

Haye getting hit and getting hurt and it is only the third round.

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Post by No name Bertie on Sat 05 May 2018, 11:01 pm

A comprehensive win by Bellew over Haye.

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Post by Pedro147 on Sat 05 May 2018, 11:01 pm

Haye injured again, should never have been a rematch. Just robbing people of their hard earned cash.

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Post by hogey on Sat 05 May 2018, 11:02 pm

Haye took those punches last time with only one leg, i fear he turned old overnight all the speed, punch resistance and footwork disapeared. Fair play to Bellew for taking advantage of it.

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Post by No name Bertie on Sat 05 May 2018, 11:04 pm

Bellew was absolutely convinced he had the power to knock out Haye and went out to hurt him.

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Post by Happytravelling on Sat 05 May 2018, 11:08 pm

Didn't see the Martin fight but the Joyce fight was decent, butler out classed (although I agree with others he looked out of sorts) and the Ryder ko was surprising, I thought Cox would win.

But Haye looked old/damaged there tonight. Probably the former as Hayes punch resistance didn't look there.

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Post by melv500 on Sat 05 May 2018, 11:08 pm

Like the man on the orthopaedic shoes I stand corrected!! Fair play Bellew, well done!!

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Post by Happytravelling on Sat 05 May 2018, 11:09 pm

Credit to bellew, he's growing in confidence.

Pleased for Tony. I'm always pleased for fighters that over achieve.

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Post by Pedro147 on Sat 05 May 2018, 11:13 pm

Happytravelling wrote:Credit to bellew, he's growing in confidence.

Pleased for Tony. I'm always pleased for fighters that over achieve.

I think if I sum up Bellew he’s a had a perfectly managed career. Beat the weakest world champ in his division, awful second fight vs Clev and then a geriatric Haye.

But Haye is a massive name so lives in the public memory, the weak champion is a defining night in Goodison Park and Clev is righting a wrong against a domestic rival. He’s never really beat a top fighter but has won big fights as such. Made good money at the same time so hopefully retires a happy man.

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Post by Happytravelling on Sat 05 May 2018, 11:22 pm

Pedro, you're being a bit uncharitable and also not reassessing your opinion to suit the evidence in front of you.

I agree, I think he's limited but he has looked better with weight and he's won a world title, and defended.

He's an over achiever and I respect that. He'll never be a hall of famer but few are. Good on him.

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Post by No name Bertie on Sat 05 May 2018, 11:23 pm

What's next for Bellew? He is a small heavyweight in a field containing giants. But cruiserweight is down at 14 stone 4 lb - 13 stone 8 lb.

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Post by Happytravelling on Sat 05 May 2018, 11:24 pm

P.s I thought the stoppage was a little premature but don't think it changed the result and was probably merciful, given how Haye looked.

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Post by Pedro147 on Sat 05 May 2018, 11:25 pm

Happytravelling wrote:Pedro, you're being a bit uncharitable and also not reassessing your opinion to suit the evidence in front of you.

I agree, I think he's limited but he has looked better with weight and he's won a world title, and defended.

He's an over achiever and I respect that. He'll never be a hall of famer but few are. Good on him.

I just don’t see who the top fighters who he’s beat? I mean Haye on paper is a good win but Haye a shadow of himself and injured in both fights (I don’t like Haye btw so that’s not a defence of him).

I agree with you 100% though, Bellew has massively overachieved but I just don’t think he’s beat great fighters to do so.

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Post by No name Bertie on Sat 05 May 2018, 11:28 pm

Was Haye injured in this fight? Haye didn't sound injured he just got beaten by a far better man on the night.

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Post by TheSquaredCircle on Sat 05 May 2018, 11:36 pm

Maybe a Manuel charr/ Ustinov for bellew?

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Post by Happytravelling on Sat 05 May 2018, 11:44 pm

Pedro, I agree. Think he's grown into the weight and think he's now in limbo. Cruiser is a seriously competitive weight and not sure he can boil down and he's just too small for heavy.

5-10yrs ago he'd have been a top cruiser and might have won a hw strap. Now, he'll give the top cruisers a hard fight but not stand a chance at heavy.

Think if he could get down to cruiser he might get a title. At hw he could pick up lower belts and possibly make more money with less effort.

Haye did look old, and possibly injured, tonight. He's been to inactive.

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Post by catchweight on Sun 06 May 2018, 12:16 am

Bellew has massively overachieved financially from boxing relative to his ability. I dont think he has in terms of achievements in the sports. He still only has a solitary world title win against an unremarkable opponent which in an era of so many titles and divisions is not anything special.

I think there is a what might of been aspect to Bellews career. He was an average enough light heavyweight with an average enough record there. It looked like the wrong weight class for him though. At cruiserweight he looked a better fighter but with a division full of exciting fights there he pretty much skipped over it to chase a couple of high profile but pretty empty fights with a David Haye who was past the point of even being a genuine heavyweight contender. I think we missed out on Bellews natural career as a cruiserweight.

Bellew and Haye are big personalities who enjoy the camera so they are made for tv in that regard. Especially in a sport where style is often more important than substance to the ticket sales and the general public. But their records are pretty light for two guys close to the end of their careers and their earnings reflect their personalities rather than their talents I think.

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Post by Mochyn du on Sun 06 May 2018, 12:42 am

Fair play, these two have played the public for right mugs. Neither of these guys are that good yet they have sold a fake grudge match, pretended to be world beaters and conned the public huge in the process . Their records are poor for such high earners and their world championship pedigree is very thin.

Although unlike Bellew, who has never been made out to be anything special, I have always wondered why David Haye gets such enormous plaudits from some fans who laud his great skill and power. Did he ever achieve to his capabilities or was he always very overrated to begin with? You have to really think hard about his good wins. I'm getting JM Mormeck, a bloated cruiserweight who only happened to be the man at the weight at time Haye beat him and not an especially significant player in the sport. Then you have the giant Valuev, who by most accounts was a shockingly poor champion with a padded record and several dubious wins before Haye sneaked passed him.

Just saying Haye's reputation as a richly talented and sickeningly powerful boxer seems a bit over played when you consider the overall output of his career has been very disappointing.

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Post by Nathaniel Jacobs on Sun 06 May 2018, 7:26 am

World middleweight King Gennady Golovkin iced Vanes Martirosyan inside 2 rounds as he tied Bernard Hopkins 20 defenses at middleweight. Crushing and devastating KO by GGg. 38-0-1(34 KO)

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Post by Nathaniel Jacobs on Sun 06 May 2018, 7:29 am

Bellew's career is entirely about fighting stiffs or has beens. Two title fights Cleverly and Stevenson lost. Bellew's only ever won vacant belts. Arguably the worst champion at cruiserweight since Johnny Nelson. If Bellew returns to 200lbs Usyk or Gassiev would get the easiest paydaysof their careers

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Post by Derbymanc on Tue 08 May 2018, 3:51 pm

Thought it was a half decent night of boxing, Ward being upset by tennyson was a good bout, the rest were a bit Meh (although Rodriquez looked fantastic) and Ryder/Cox was a funny ending (right call in the end though). Thought Bellew once again shown that he is underrated by many and even now people are making whatever excuse they can.

Enjoyed the interviews afterwards and thought it was funny when Chis let loose that Bellew had been injured as well, the daggers coming from Bomber would have sent fear through anyone else :-)

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Post by smashingstormcrow on Wed 09 May 2018, 4:36 pm

No name Bertie wrote:Was Haye injured in this fight?  Haye didn't sound injured he just got beaten by a far better man on the night.

I am convinced his Achilles was still a problem for him, and that's why Salas reworked his stance and footwork - to shift the weight forward, and take the stress off the bad leg. He looked very flat-footed and cumbersome, and during the first knock down, his leg seemed to buckle awkwardly beneath him.

On top of that... his trademark reactions and head movement were nowhere to be seen, and his punch timing/accuracy was unconvincing. He had no plan B when Bellew stepped it up a gear, and his punch resistance appears to be completely shot. In summary, he was useless!

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Post by Herman Jaeger on Wed 09 May 2018, 5:11 pm

Haye showed himself a very good cruiserweight with good wins over Maccarinelli and Mormeck but not an outstanding one imo like sometimes suggested. Mormeck doesn’t get out of the first round of the super six most probably. Flabby heavyweights are easier to deal with than ripped to the bone cruiserweights that’s what people need to understand. A decent career by most people’s standards but not much more when you compare today’s crop of cruiserweights to that of Haye’s

Terrific atmosphere the other night and good little fight but the fifthish best cruiser in the world against the guy who legged it from Artur Beterbiev please no not even by Eddie’s standards what would that fight be trying to say

Tony against Beterbiev now that’s a fight I’d like to see

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Post by Baby faced assassin on Wed 09 May 2018, 10:19 pm

No chance Bellew drops back to cruiser let alone Light Heavy

He makes more at heavyweight, doesn't need to cut any weight and he probably doesn't beat any of the top 5 (or 10) at cruiserweight

He's only gonna get in the ring for bi money fights, like Wilder or Fury etc, and at 36 I dont blame him
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Post by 88Chris05 on Wed 09 May 2018, 10:54 pm

Not sure if Haye was injured, and don't care to be honest. Haven't cared a jot about Haye or his career for almost five years now.

But one thing I think we can definitely assert is that he's shot, totally done as a top-line fighter. Like him or loathe him (suspect most on here go for the latter option these days), a peak Haye was a very considerable talent; athletic, genuinely explosive (which isn't always the same as being terrifyingly heavy-handed), impressive power and capable of delivering excitement, although with muss less frequency north of 200 lb than as a Cruiserweight.

I felt the result of the first fight came with a huge asterisk next to it - BUT even allowing for that, I was alarmed at how uncoordinated and sluggish Haye looked before his Achilles gave out. Before the fight, I thought that if Haye was at even 75% of his peak capabilities, he'd blast Bellew out at some point in style. But afterwards I found myself thinking that even if the Achilles hadn't been an issue and he'd won, it would at best have been on points in an uninspiring performance.

No disrespect to Bellew, but if you've been as good (not great, but good) as Haye's been in the past, but you're now losing inside-schedule twice over to someone like Tony, it's time to get out of this game. But word around the camp fire is he needs the money, and we all know what suckers boxing fans are; if your surname still has a degree of cachet and there's a 'grudge' to be conjured up by Mr. Hearn, you'll gull enough punters in to prolonging your career for you. He'll fight again, I suspect; those proclamations of 2010-11 that he'd definitely never fight past the age of thirty look pretty daft now.
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Post by smashingstormcrow on Thu 10 May 2018, 9:35 am

Mark de Mori rematch!

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