20th Gathering of Edinburgh and Glasgow Discussion

First topic message reminder :

Edinburgh Squad

LH's: Schoeman, Dell, Marfo, Sutherland
Hookers: McInally, Ford, Fenton, Cherry
TH's: Nel, Berghan, McCallum, Ceccarelli
Second Row: Gilchrist, Toolis, McKenzie, Carmichael, Hunter-Hill
Back Row: Barclay, Hamilton, Crosbie; Watson, Ritchie; Bradbury, Mata, Miller, Nayalo

SH's: Pyrgos, Fowles, Kennedy, Shiel
FH's: Hickey, VDW, McLelland, Baggott
Centres: Scott, Socino, Bennett, Dean, Johnstone, G Taylor
Back 3: Fife, VDM, Hoyland, Brown, Graham; Kinghorn

Forward Total: 26
- Internationals: 16 (14 Scots, 1 Italian, 1 Fijian)
- NSQ: 4 (1 of whom is a project)
- Under 25 (as of September 1st, 2018): 7 (2 capped)
Backs Total: 20
- Internationals: 8 (Socino lone non-Scot)
- NSQ: 4 (2 projects)
- Under 25 (as of September 1st, 2018): 10 (2 capped)

Total: 46

Glasgow Squad

LH's: Bhatti, Allan, Kebble
Hookers: Brown, Turner, Stewart, Bryce
TH's: Fagerson, Nuka, Rae, Nicol
Second Row: Gray, Swinson, Cummings, McDonald, Brian, Peterson, Davidson
Back-Row: M Fagerson, Harley; Gibbins, Smith, Fusaro; Wilson, Ashe, Tameilau, Flockhart

SH's: Price, G Horne,Frisby, Mata, Baletto
FH's: Horne, Hastings, Jackson
Centres: Dunbar, H Jones, Johnson, Dunbar, Grigg, P Kelly
Back 3: Seymour, VDM, L Jones, Masaga, Tagive, Hughes, Beattie, Nairn; Hogg, Thomson

Forward Total: 27
- Internationals: 15 (12 Scots, 2 Americans, 1 Tongan)
- NSQ: 6 (2 projects)
- Under 25 (as of September 1st, 2018): 11 (4 capped, both projects)
Backs Total: 24
- Internationals: 14 (10 Scots, 1 Fijian, 1 Kiwi, 1 Canadian, 1 Aussie)
- NSQ: 4 (No projects if Thomson is already tied to SA)
- Under 25 (as of September 1st, 2018): 8 (1 capped)

Total: 51

Overall: 97 players
- Internationals: 53 (43 Scots)
- NSQ: 19 (5 projects)
- Under 25: 36 (9 capped)

It was that stupid no look pass, that fooled his own team more than the opposition. Just no need for it at that time, we just had to play simple rugby and we would have won.

Just trying to hard to be clever!

According to an interview from cockers a couple of weeks ago Fenton had hip surgery and is likely to be out for about 3 months.

I suspect that will likely rule him out of making his int. debut this cycle, as he'll be injured during the AIs, can't see him playing in the 6 nations. Which I think would then just leave the WC warm up games.

https://www.606v2.com/t67997-glasgow-warriors-v-dragons-saturday-29th-september#3737316

and the Glasgow match thread

BigGee wrote:It was that stupid no look pass, that fooled his own team more than the opposition. Just no need for it at that time, we just had to play simple rugby and we would have won.

Just trying to hard to be clever!

That was a poor moment but Rae was totally asleep.

Thought Peterson was carrying well.

reallybored wrote:

BigGee wrote:It was that stupid no look pass, that fooled his own team more than the opposition. Just no need for it at that time, we just had to play simple rugby and we would have won.

Just trying to hard to be clever!

That was a poor moment but Rae was totally asleep.

Thought Peterson was carrying well.

Clearly DR and the Glasgow coaching staff did not!

They have never really been sold on the merits of GP, I just don't think he has the workrate in him that they want from their players. That was his chance to prove them wrong and I don't think he took it.

I've not watched the Glasgow game back but their forum is laying into Peterson, with significant numbers suggesting he shouldn't be seen in the shirt again.

I realise this should be over on the international chat, but I'm here now.

All of Scotland's AI games will be shown on the bbc

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/45655213

Shoeman's received a 4 week ban

4 week is probably as expected, but it is a bit of a mockery that Basteraud's deliberate assault only got 1 week more (appreciating it is different leagues handing out the bans)!

Shame for Edinburgh to lose him for the first two Champions Cup games - we could have done with his physicality. From a Scotland PoV it does mean more gametime for Dell, Marfo and Sutherland however.

I'm not complaining on this, but he got 2 weeks knocked off. 1 for admitting it, and 1 for his behaviour throughout the hearing.

2 weeks for saying, yeah that's me on tv and not having a go at anyone. I mean it's a mad system.

Also agree on Basteraud, I wonder if Shoeman's history worked against him, then again it's not like Basteraud is an angel. However I believe basteraud was being provoked, so maybe that was considered.

4 weeks is a bit tough for the offence, but unfortunately he has got some previous.

You generally are better off putting up your hand, admitting it and getting the reduction.

The George Smith incident gave everyone a bit of hope, but Will Spencer soon found out that those decisions are the exception not the rule. He ended up with 4 weeks when he would probably have got 2 if he had fessed up!

https://theoffsideline.com/fagerson-set-to-miss-six-nations-because-of-ankle-break/

Zander likely out for 6 months and will miss the 6N.

No sign of the Nuke for another 6 weeks either, so Glasgow very light on TH props. They are in the market for a short term deal for cover, Moray Low may be in the frame.

Bugger that's a big shame. Also puts pressure on everyone - with Berghan, Nel and McCallum likely to be with Scotland now that just leaves the Italian bloke edinburgh signed and no backup!

Scotland will be fine provided Nel and Berghan stay fit. It's Edinburgh and Glasgow that will struggle a bit without the international players.

I think the 4 week ban is harsh, but we have loosehead cover. Dell could certainly do with starting some games.

I fear for Glasgow's scrums in Europe without Fagerson- they were pumped in the scrums with him there last season, never mind with D'Arcy Rae 'anchoring' the tighthead side!

Just goes to show how shallow the tight-head pool is in Scotland, we really only have three international calibre players in Nel, Fagerson and Berghan. I hope Nicol gets some game time in the coming weeks, but it would be unfair to throw him into the Euro games with virtually no game time - desperately need some cover there, with a Moray Low type figure probably the best we can hope for.

EST - I'd say Murray McCallum is ready for the step up too. He has actually been Edinburgh's best tighthead this season and played very well on the summer tour. His scrums are solid and he's a good carrier. He looks like he's developed very well the last year or so and can be seen as a genuine option for Scotland. Only problem is he's got Berghan and Nel ahead of him for Scotland.

That's good to hear about McCallum RDW. I knew he was improving and he did impress during the summer, but I had him in a group on his own, slightly behind the three I already mentioned.

I have high hopes for Nicol, he was very good at age grade level, and certainly looks to be physically ready - I can see him overtaking the Nuke and Rae relatively quickly.

He's certainly behind the other 3 who are far more experienced at international level, but I hope he gets gametime in the AIs and I think he'll do well. He's a good option off the bench - he's a real impact type player whereas Nel and Berghan are more like workhorses who can provide solidity.

funnyExiledScot wrote:Scotland will be fine provided Nel and Berghan stay fit. It's Edinburgh and Glasgow that will struggle a bit without the international players.

I think the 4 week ban is harsh, but we have loosehead cover. Dell could certainly do with starting some games.

I don't know how bad it is, but apparently Berghan has injured his back.

https://www.scotsman.com/sport/rugby-union/john-dalziel-tips-kyle-steyn-to-sparkle-with-scotland-sevens-1-4806507

Anyone know much about the bloke?

Not a thing.

Hopefully he's actually half decent. If he's able to play 13 then he could really be used at Edinburgh, however in the article he said he wanted to play for Glasgow, so hopefully he's capable of playing 12 or 15.

I didn't even pick up on the fact that he had played for the 7's last season.

Looks a decent enough option, will keep an eye on him at the 7's. The article is quite interesting in general, I like how they are going to be using it as a means of helping players back into the 15's game - that's the best use of the resources funnelled into the 7's game, in my opinion.

Edinburgh have just signed a sponsorship arrangement with Denton's who are apparently (according to the article) the worlds largest law firm.

I've never heard of them, but as I have no real involvement in anything law related it makes sense I wouldn't. Also apparently they are quite new to Edinburgh

ER wrote:Edinburgh has today welcomed Dentons, the world’s largest law firm, to its ever-growing sponsor family.

Dentons – who will feature on the collar of the club’s new home and alternate Macron playing kits – has Scottish offices in Edinburgh, Glasgow and Aberdeen.

On joining the Edinburgh Rugby sponsor family, Dentons’ Senior Partner in Scotland, Kenneth Shand, said: “We are very pleased to be partnering with Edinburgh Rugby and look forward to supporting the team throughout what will undoubtedly be a successful season.”

Edinburgh Managing Director, Jonny Petrie, added: “We’re delighted to announce a partnership with Dentons.

Their commitment to the club is a great example of a successful global business with a strong Edinburgh presence sharing our vision for the future and we’re proud to carry their brand on our kit as we compete in both the Guinness PRO14 and Heineken Champions Cup.”

If only we had a bunch of lawyers on here who could enlighten us.......

Dentons is a global law firm which recently bought up Maclay, Murray & Spens - who were a solely Scottish firm.

Pretty sure they're not the largest, but they're up there.

Edit - wiki says they're the largest by number of offices/lawyers. They're only 8th by revenue. So clearly they're not charging enough and their lawyers need to work harder!

Wikipedia reckons 8th largest. Still impressive

I like the sound of that young Mungo Mason (besides the Python references - "Easy Mungo! Never... kill a customer!"):

Mason emigrated to Bay of Plenty with his family when he was two-years-old. A former Sir Edmund Hillary Scholar at the University of Waikato, Mason also represented New Zealand Under-20s in water polo and was a local Youth Parliament Representative, leading and directing an anti-binge drinking campaign.

I'm sure he'll be a real hit at parties.

Please can someone lock Mungo Mason and Ryan Wilson in a room together with several crates of beer and film the outcome?!

You do have to wonder about these Denton chappies' scouting process.

Surely lawyers looking to raise their profile in a city would look for one where there might be some other legal cases other than re-opening House Of Ill Repute?

Also, I bet there's a sweepstake going on at the Home Of the Once And Future Champions to see who'll be first in the Annual Slaughter Of The Effeminates to run over the new boy and say, "Mungo Park yer arse there!"

highland_scot wrote:Dentons is a global law firm which recently bought up Maclay, Murray & Spens - who were a solely Scottish firm.

Pretty sure they're not the largest, but they're up there.

Edit - wiki says they're the largest by number of offices/lawyers. They're only 8th by revenue. So clearly they're not charging enough and their lawyers need to work harder!

As someone who instructs firms regularly, I wouldn't use them in this part of the world but good old Maclay Murray are as blue blood as you get. They were the first firm to tell me to eff off when I was a snotty student at Glasgow Law looking for summer work and the first that came running back to Jaysus when I somehow managed to combine not sleeping for 6 months with getting a first class degree. Fickle. Fickle, I tell you.

Mark Palmer interview with Duncan Weir in the Sunday Times. Our FH resources are now better than they have been for a long long time. James Laing started at FH for Quins as well this weekend in their win over Gloucester. He is another 12/12 option for the squad if Horne does not re-discover some form.

Duncan Weir says he likes to think of himself as a tugboat. A man who knows his job and seeks to plot a steady course, not worrying about being the quickest or flashiest. A man whose gaze is fixed straight ahead be the waters calm or choppy. “You try to keep level-headed, not getting caught up in any of the nonsense,” he says. “You can go from hero to zero pretty quickly, and I’ve been there, done that. The tugboat won’t change its pace in response to things going on around it: it just keeps moving up the river.”

As when you’re towing a much bigger vessel, the journey to enlightenment has taken time, not to mention some painful experiences. Even before he was cut adrift by Edinburgh at the end of last season, there was a strong impression of Weir having begun to tread water.


When the stand-off then shipped up at Worcester Warriors, the distance between him and Scottish rugby’s beating heart could be measured in more than just miles. Yet here he is, three months and a run of starts later, sitting in what used to be Matt Scott and David Denton’s favourite Cheltenham cafe with a smile on his face and a spring in his step. If it’s not the doughnuts — Weir somehow resists the dulce de leche special the server says the rugby lads love — there must be another reason.



Making waves: Duncan Weir has enjoyed a renaissance since his move to Worcester Warriors

Making waves: Duncan Weir has enjoyed a renaissance since his move to Worcester Warriors
ADRIAN SHERRATT

“I just feel that coming here has given me a new lease of life,” he says. “Me and my wife Nicola are home birds who think the rain shines out of Glasgow’s rear end, but we grew to love Edinburgh and it’s the same here. We’ve got the Cotswolds on our doorstep, lovely little villages and places to walk the dogs, great spots to go for food. We’re really, really enjoying it.”

He hasn’t even got on to the rugby yet. How he seems to be starting to peel back layers on a game we thought we knew inside out. The way he’s quickly become chief puller of levers and pusher of envelopes in an Alan Solomons team that wants to play. If those on the outside looking in are being given cause to reassess, Weir got there before us.




“The biggest thing I’m doing differently is trying to enjoy myself. I’m not worrying about anything else and that’s a change. Previously, I’ve gone out looking to try and impress people, to push for international honours, before thinking about the basics of having fun.

“I’m still doing the same homework, but I feel less pressure going into games. If something goes wrong, you learn. Before, even if I missed a kick you probably heard me shouting at myself. Now I’m trying to stay more relaxed and I’m playing good rugby for it.”

Weir started Worcester’s first four Premiership games before being one of a clutch of front-liners benched or rested for the trip to Exeter yesterday. Two tries in last week’s raucous 44-37 win over Leicester iced an individual display where the mix of control and speculation set tongues wagging north of the border.

Though Solomons must have had a sweat on as the Tigers recovered from 37-11 down to almost force a win, from a Scottish perspective the lasting image was Weir looking comfortable and confident.

“Even Solly has said it to me, ’You’re renowned for being a kicker and game manager, but now you’re showing other strings. Reading defences really well and making good decisions on the ball.’ Having time in the saddle has definitely helped, but again, I think it comes back to concentrating on just doing my thing. I’m backing myself to find a balance of knowing when to pull the trigger and when to put my foot on it.

“I feel the most comfortable I’ve ever felt about reading the game, knowing what to do when I’m on the ball, and I’m reading the defence the best I ever have as well. I know that’s a big thing I need to improve if I’ve any aspirations to play international rugby again.”

Trust us when we say he does. It’s just that this tugboat doesn’t bother with a fog horn. What he will expand upon is his certainty that any future taste of Test rugby would be the sweetest yet.

“Having had a lay-off, I’d cherish a Scotland cap a lot more than when they were coming thick and fast,” says the man who made the most recent of his 27 Scotland appearances in the 2017 Six Nations. “I had four or five years of being named in every squad. Not that it becomes robotic, but realistically it wasn’t like now where there are young boys pushing hard and grasping their opportunity.

“The competition in my position is getting ever more difficult with the young guys coming through who probably fit Gregor’s style of play more naturally than I do. But if I do well here, that will speak for itself. If it [a Scotland call-up] happens, great. If it doesn’t, I won’t stop working hard and going out there to express myself in a positive manner. The tugboat won’t change its pace.”

Before the summer tour when Adam Hastings deputised handsomely for Finn Russell, Gregor Townsend phoned Weir with a list of work-ons. He will have liked plenty of what he’s seen since, and while numbers one, two and even three in the fly-half pecking order look secure — Peter Horne being a Townsend favourite — Weir is at least a true candidate for the first time since his old Scotstoun coach took charge.

There has been bad luck along the way, of course. His first year at Edinburgh was disrupted by a fractured jaw, the second by what should have been a straightforward groin injury morphing into something more complex because of a nasty infection. A week after receiving a steroid injection, supposedly to help, Weir was bed-ridden and barely coherent.

“I’m not saying I’m Santi Cazorla,” begins the 27-year-old, referencing the former Arsenal midfielder who almost had to have his foot amputated due to a blood infection. “My leg didn’t nearly fall off, but it was still pretty hellish. Six weeks turned into four and a half months and, yeah, there were some bad days. I slept in a puddle of sweat for two weeks while the infection came out of me, and I was very reliant on Nicola. I’d wake up starving, she’d go to make me a slice of toast and by the time the toast was made, I’d have passed out again.”

Prior to these complications, contract negotiations with Edinburgh had been proceeding well, but with Jaco van der Walt impressing in Weir’s absence and Simon Hickey coming onto the market, a parting of ways became inevitable.

What’s happened since certainly wasn’t. So good on the tugboat for chugging steadily back into the picture.

Weir on Du Preez: ‘I’d have panicked’
Duncan Weir has hailed the bravery of Worcester and Scotland teammate Cornell du Preez in the wake of his horrific throat injury.

The No 8, who also played with Weir at Edinburgh, is still in hospital unable to speak after fracturing his cricoid against Wasps on September 1.

‘We’ve still not been allowed to go and see him – that’s how proud a guy Cornell is,’ said Weir. ’He’s still not speaking so he probably thinks having us up there would be wasting our time, even though, of course, we’d be happy to do it.

’The doctors and physios are amazed how he has conducted himself. He stood up, took his gum shield off, threw it off the ground then just walked calmly off the pitch, even though he couldn’t breathe. I would have been all over the place, completely panicking.’

Mark Palmer also saying that Danny Wilson was in Llanelli yesterday to run the rule over 'The Blade Runner'

His Scarlets team mates are already ribbing him that he is likely to make his Scotland debut playing against wales this autumn!

Good on Weir.  I wanted him to do this for a couple of seasons and its great to see him coming back into form.  Too true what he said about trying too hard, trying to impress.

He hopefully will be back in contention for the Scotland shirt.  Hastings while looking mighty handy is as yet very inexperienced and did make mistakes in the Dragons game.  I see Weirs role maybe developing into a "closer / finisher" ie coming on with 15 mins to go to steady the ship and it also gives us a "horses for courses" choice.

I had slipped into private Frazer mode for the international side recently "we're doomed" but a bit of optimism is coming back seeing Dunbar, Jones and Scott in the centres coming back into form and Hastings and Weir looking good at 10.

Depth in the squad is not looking bad and it will take more than one or two injuries in most positions before we are scrabbling around to find a scotland qualified player who would not disgrace the side!

Watching the racing game.  Russell playing well but is it my imagination or is it "Qui a mangé tous les tarte" ?

It was a sublime offload for the Racing try in the first half. Classic FR

jimbopip wrote:
Also, I bet there's a sweepstake going on at the Home Of the Once And Future Champions to see who'll be first in the Annual Slaughter Of The Effeminates to run over the new boy and say, "Mungo Park yer arse there!"

The Brumeister was prescient as ever when he said,

Jim, I just want to say that whilst it is highly unlikely that you will get an appropriate amount of credit for that joke, I sat at my desk and applauded.

I refer you troglodytes to the quote at the top of the page,


and

Mungo Park was a Scottish explorer of West Africa. He was the first Westerner known to have travelled to the central portion of the Niger River, and his account of his travels is still in print. (Wikithingy on the interweb)

I don't know why I work my intellect to the bone trying to amuse you slobs. You never, ever notice.

jimbopip wrote:

jimbopip wrote:
Also, I bet there's a sweepstake going on at the Home Of the Once And Future Champions to see who'll be first in the Annual Slaughter Of The Effeminates to run over the new boy and say, "Mungo Park yer arse there!"

The Brumeister was  prescient as ever when he said,

Jim, I just want to say that whilst it is highly unlikely that you will get an appropriate amount of credit for that joke, I sat at my desk and applauded.

I refer you troglodytes to the quote at the top of the page,
 

and

Mungo Park was a Scottish explorer of West Africa. He was the first Westerner known to have travelled to the central portion of the Niger River, and his account of his travels is still in print. (Wikithingy on the interweb)

I don't know why I work my intellect to the bone trying to amuse you slobs. You never, ever notice.

That was me Jim. One Senior Moment away from another awesome post.

Yeah, it didn't really sound like something I'd say.

Been good to see James Lang get more gametime at quins - mainly at 10. He's even been starting over wonder child Marcus Smith recently. With Tim Sweil heading to Newcastle today it should mean he gets plenty gametime this season.

Another dark horse for the world cup squad perhaps - he's up against Peter Horne for the 10/12 role most likely. Horne is more experienced and is a Townsend favourite but has been on crap form this season.

The twittersphere suggesting that Big Brian move to Toulon is a done deal and will happen imminently.

Probably was inevitable once they got the chequebook out. He has been a bit of a cult figure at Scotstoun but at the end of the day has not really done it for us on the pitch and so probably won't be missed all that much. Hopefully we will pick up a few quid on the deal and get someone else signed up, you can't help but feel that Davidson is doing a job interview.

Time will tell I guess.

https://movieweb.com/george-carlin-movie-writer-stan-chervin/

GC I can't wait to see your film! Do you talk about your time on 606V2 in it?

BigGee wrote:The twittersphere suggesting that Big Brian move to Toulon is a done deal and will happen imminently.

Probably was inevitable once they got the chequebook out. He has been a bit of a cult figure at Scotstoun but at the end of the day has not really done it for us on the pitch and so probably won't be missed all that much. Hopefully we will pick up a few quid on the deal and get someone else signed up, you can't help but feel that Davidson is doing a job interview.

Time will tell I guess.

It's a real shame that Brian could never get fit at Glasgow, from the little we saw of him, it looked like he would have added a huge amount to the team - especially in Europe. Hopefully Davidson can get some game time and audition for a longer term contract (presuming Newcastle are happy to let him go).

Bill Mata made 28 carries at the weekend - the most ever recorded in the Pro 14

RDW_Scotland wrote:Bill Mata made 28 carries at the weekend - the most ever recorded in the Pro 14

That's impressive, and seems to back up Edinburgh's current attacking strategy - pass to DVDM or Mata.

He sadly didn't make that many metres though from those carries.  Sure it was reasonably high, but not to the same level as "most ever recorded" would indicate.

Davidson did well in his first 20 minute stint. Long way to go to get to Brian's level. If he can stay fit and play a dozen times for Glasgow this season, he will probably be worth more than Brian.

It is good to see some depth in key positions building for Scotland. Just a shame it seems to get bunched up at single clubs. Last season at Glasgow (SH/FH/Centre) and this season at Edinburgh (LH/TH). Is this a product of coaching or selection bias?

So will we see Harley Davidson providing the drive in the pack for Glasgow on Friday night?

jimbopip wrote:
So will we see Harley Davidson providing the drive in the pack for Glasgow on Friday night?

Sounds like the prospect is really revving your engine Jimbo