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England's Indian Summer - T20s, ODIs & Tests

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Post by LondonTiger Tue 03 Jul 2018, 11:09 am

First topic message reminder :

T20s

A three match series between the 2nd (India) and 4th ranked teams in the world https://www.icc-cricket.com/rankings/mens/team-rankings/t20i

Fixtures

Tuesday 3rd July 2018 17:30
Emirates Old Trafford, Manchester

Friday 6th July 2018 17:30
Sophia Gardens Cardiff, Cardiff

Sunday 8th July 2018 14:00
The Brightside Ground, Bristol


Squads

England: Morgan, Ali, Bairstow, Ball, Buttler, Curran S, Curran T, Hales, Jordan, Plunkett, Rashid, Root, Roy, Willey (Malan in as cover for 1st game, Stokes may join for 3rd)

India: Kohli, Chahal, Chahar, Dhawan, Dhoni, Karthik, Kaul, Kuldeep Yadav, Kumar, Pandey, HH Pandya, KH Pandya, Rahul, Raina, Sharma UT Yadav


Key Men

Jos Buttler - move up the order during IPL has given him much more time to have an impact. While only ranked 26 in ICC rankings, this will improve now he opens.
Alex Hales - Formerly top ranked batter in T20s, has dropped a bit (to 7) and finds his place in the England side under threat.
Rashid/Ali - Englands spinners have thrived in the one day format, but will find the Indian batting lineup a tough test.

Virat Kohli - probably the best batsmen in the world across all 3 forms of the game. Some injury issues recently.
Chahal/Kuldeep Yadav - India look like going with two wrist spinners. England often struggle to score quickly against good spin.



ODIs

Fixtures

Another 3 match series between the the top two ranked sides in the world.  Both teams will be wanting to lay down a marker before next year's world cup.


Thursday 12th July 2018 12:30
Trent Bridge, Nottingham

Saturday 14th July 2018 11:00
Lord's, London

Tuesday 17th July 2018 12:30
Emerald Headingley, Leeds


Squads

England - Eoin Morgan (capt), Moeen Ali, Jonny Bairstow, Jake Ball, Jos Buttler, Alex Hales, Liam Plunkett, Adil Rashid, Joe Root, Jason Roy, Ben Stokes, David Willey, Mark Wood.



Test Series

A form of cricket in which the visitors have been much better than the hosts. The series goes deep into September as India seek to avenge the series defeat in 2014. In a manner we have become used to seeing from touring teams around the world, that series India capitulated in the final 3 tests  having won the second test to take a 1-0 lead. India however look strong enough this time out to put pressure on a faltering home test team.


Fixtures

Wednesday 1st August 2018 11:00
Edgbaston, Birmingham

Thursday 9th August 2018 11:00
Lord's, London

Saturday 18th August 2018 11:00
Trent Bridge, Nottingham

Thursday 30th August 2018 11:00
Ageas Bowl, Southampton

Friday 7th September 2018 11:00
Kia Oval, London

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Post by msp83 Thu 02 Aug 2018, 5:24 pm

Hundred for the Indian captain. His luckiest till date. Can it be a match saving one? That lead is down to 62...

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Post by alfie Thu 02 Aug 2018, 5:24 pm

Hundred for Kohli clap

He's made many "better" - certainly prettier - centuries ; but rarely a harder fought or more vital one for his team. If he's had some luck - which he has - his courage kind of earned it thumbsup

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Post by msp83 Thu 02 Aug 2018, 5:33 pm

Kohi not taking much of a chance against Rashid...

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Post by msp83 Thu 02 Aug 2018, 5:36 pm

Rashid did have Kohli in a spot or 2 in that over, but think they have to bring back Broad...

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Post by alfie Thu 02 Aug 2018, 5:39 pm

Lead down to just fifty. England might feel this could have been so much better...but after being bowled out for an apparently well under par 287 they've actually come back well today.

Have to get this last wicket : and hopefully avoid a second innings collapse . I need some sleep...soon...but I'm wondering when they will finish this !

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Post by msp83 Thu 02 Aug 2018, 5:41 pm

Lead under 50 now. Gives India a fighting chance. And Kohli has earned the right to demand some intent from his bowlers...

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Post by guildfordbat Thu 02 Aug 2018, 5:43 pm

msp83 wrote:While I had to charge out and try and slog Guildford else he would have settled down to a nice line and length of Rashid bashing, I must admit his selection does create significant ethical dilemmas for sure...

msp - you may have slogged me to the rope but I welcome you charging down the track and have my keeper primed for the stumping. Wink

In some seriousness, we don't have a Warne hiding away (who does?) and so the selection of any England slowie is going to attract some understandable criticism. I just don't believe a leggie like Rashid is the least worst alternative.

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Post by Duty281 Thu 02 Aug 2018, 5:45 pm

England have fallen into the classic trap that sides sometimes get themselves into when they've got the opposition 8/9 down. They've completely given up on getting Kohli out, and are focusing all their energies on getting Yadav on strike. Only trouble is, Root's field placings are so poor that Kohli is retaining the strike quite easily.

Lead under 50. India favourites once again.

Yesterday, it looked as though the key moment of the test would be Root's run out and the collapse it sparked; now, it looks clear that the pivotal moment is the first drop of Kohli. An absolute sitter. Cost England 101 runs and counting.


Last edited by Duty281 on Thu 02 Aug 2018, 5:48 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by jimbohammers Thu 02 Aug 2018, 5:46 pm

Just switched on. Not too convinced by Roots captaincy here. Try something different... Stokes looks knackered. Broad has only bowled 10 overs today...

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Post by alfie Thu 02 Aug 2018, 5:48 pm

Lead fast vanishing...Kohli playing them like a piano now. Frustration in some of the England body language.

I am curious as to why Root appears to have forgotten Broad ?


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Post by Duty281 Thu 02 Aug 2018, 5:52 pm

Times like this that remind you what a substandard captain Joe Root is.

Been saying it for over a year now. Masterful batsman, no doubt, but not cut out to be a test skipper.

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Post by guildfordbat Thu 02 Aug 2018, 5:54 pm

alfie wrote:Hundred for Kohli clap

He's made many "better" - certainly prettier - centuries ; but rarely a harder fought or more vital one for his team.  If he's had some luck - which he has - his courage kind of earned it thumbsup

Alfie - think we're as one here. In its own way, it's been an excellent century though. Not pretty as you say but battling, full of grit and determination. Adage of ''not how but how many'' comes to mind. clap

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Post by msp83 Thu 02 Aug 2018, 5:55 pm

Think Kohli has already made more runs in England in this innings alone than he managed across 5 tests last time round.

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Post by Duty281 Thu 02 Aug 2018, 5:58 pm

Why on earth is Stokes still bowling? He was too exhausted to bowl skilfully about four overs ago!

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Post by alfie Thu 02 Aug 2018, 5:59 pm

Duty281 wrote:Times like this that remind you what a substandard captain Joe Root is.

Been saying it for over a year now. Masterful batsman, no doubt, but not cut out to be a test skipper.

I tend to agree. This match reminds me of Brisbane last year...was Smith then , Kohli today. One man has undone them ; and Root seems not to have any answers.
The difference is this time he pressed on with Anderson to the point of exhaustion - last time he took him off too early !

Tricky , these last wicket stands . But I wouldn't have kept Rashid on after his wicket : think it should have been Broad back immediately ...he's pretty well rested !

India might end up with a lead...

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Post by msp83 Thu 02 Aug 2018, 6:00 pm

After a while England has got 6 possible balls at a go to Umesh. Can Stokes make it count? Lead down to 19...

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Post by msp83 Thu 02 Aug 2018, 6:02 pm

Umesh survives!

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Post by msp83 Thu 02 Aug 2018, 6:06 pm

Rashid gets Kohli at last. Gone 1 short of 150, but that lead is just 13. Got just a little bit carried away did Virat there.

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Post by alfie Thu 02 Aug 2018, 6:06 pm

In fact I think India will end up with a lead. Unless Kohli makes a mistake ...and he's not made many recently.

You'd think it won't be a significant one though so this match looks like being a battle over four or five days. Could yet end up a classic...

And out ! Rashid has him caught at point at last ! Well played Kohli clap

England lead by 13. India to bat last. Anything could happen...

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Post by Duty281 Thu 02 Aug 2018, 6:06 pm

Kohli finally out for 149 after someone (Broad) holds on.

A deficit of just 13 ensures that India are strong favourites going into what is, pretty much, a one innings shoot out.

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Post by msp83 Thu 02 Aug 2018, 6:09 pm

The Indian new ball bowlers were a bit all over the place in the first innings. Kohli's eventually remarkable knock has brought them back into the game. The bowlers, Ishant Umesh in particular, played their parts in supporting the captain with the bat, they have a far more important job with the ball now.

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Post by sirfredperry Thu 02 Aug 2018, 6:13 pm

Duty281 wrote:Kohli finally out for 149 after someone (Broad) holds on.

A deficit of just 13 ensures that India are strong favourites going into what is, pretty much, a one innings shoot out.

Tremendous knock from Kohli but disagree that India are strong favourites. Yes, the lead is slender and, indeed, the lead should have been far greater, but England are ahead and India have to bat last. Much talk of England's 287 being inadequate but India made fewer and I'm sure England would have settled for any sort of lead especially after India reached 50 without loss.
I'm writing this before the close and could look silly if England lose wickets tonight.

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Post by CaledonianCraig Thu 02 Aug 2018, 6:13 pm

Duty281 wrote:Kohli finally out for 149 after someone (Broad) holds on.

A deficit of just 13 ensures that India are strong favourites going into what is, pretty much, a one innings shoot out.

Hmm. So India are behind after the first innings but are strong favourites? Not sure how you work that one out.
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Post by Duty281 Thu 02 Aug 2018, 6:17 pm

A dead-end few overs for England to play out here.

They should be innovative and open with Curran and Broad, to ensure any losses aren't too damaging for tomorrow. But they won't be, of course.

They'll risk Cook and Jennings.

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Post by Duty281 Thu 02 Aug 2018, 6:19 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:
Duty281 wrote:Kohli finally out for 149 after someone (Broad) holds on.

A deficit of just 13 ensures that India are strong favourites going into what is, pretty much, a one innings shoot out.

Hmm. So India are behind after the first innings but are strong favourites? Not sure how you work that one out.

Because India are much the better team.

If the New Zealand rugby union team are 14-7 down at half-time to England, it's still the former who are strong favourites to win.

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Post by Duty281 Thu 02 Aug 2018, 6:20 pm

sirfredperry wrote:
Duty281 wrote:Kohli finally out for 149 after someone (Broad) holds on.

A deficit of just 13 ensures that India are strong favourites going into what is, pretty much, a one innings shoot out.

Tremendous knock from Kohli but disagree that India are strong favourites. Yes, the lead is slender and, indeed, the lead should have been far greater, but England are ahead and India have to bat last. Much talk of England's 287 being inadequate but India made fewer and I'm sure England would have settled for any sort of lead especially after India reached 50 without loss.
  I'm writing this before the close and could look silly if England lose wickets tonight.

Not too sure pitch deterioration is going to be much of a factor, and India won't be too perturbed by batting last. India 80-20 favourites for me.

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Post by CaledonianCraig Thu 02 Aug 2018, 6:22 pm

Duty281 wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:
Duty281 wrote:Kohli finally out for 149 after someone (Broad) holds on.

A deficit of just 13 ensures that India are strong favourites going into what is, pretty much, a one innings shoot out.

Hmm. So India are behind after the first innings but are strong favourites? Not sure how you work that one out.

Because India are much the better team.

If the New Zealand rugby union team are 14-7 down at half-time to England, it's still the former who are strong favourites to win.

In other conditions I would agree with you. However, it is well-documented how this Indian team does not perform well in English conditions.
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Post by guildfordbat Thu 02 Aug 2018, 6:24 pm

Duty281 wrote:A dead-end few overs for England to play out here.

They should be innovative and open with Curran and Broad, to ensure any losses aren't too damaging for tomorrow. But they won't be, of course.

They'll risk Cook and Jennings.

Strongly disagree with that, Duty. Even if Curran and Broad survived tonight, they would be wickets waiting to boost India's morale early tomorrow.

A skipper needs to back his batsmen.

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Post by Duty281 Thu 02 Aug 2018, 6:29 pm

Oh wow, a replica of the first innings. Cook dismissed with total aplomb.

Stupendous from Ashwin to end an utterly enthralling day. England up against it.

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Post by guildfordbat Thu 02 Aug 2018, 6:39 pm

guildfordbat wrote:
Duty281 wrote:A dead-end few overs for England to play out here.

They should be innovative and open with Curran and Broad, to ensure any losses aren't too damaging for tomorrow. But they won't be, of course.

They'll risk Cook and Jennings.

Strongly disagree with that, Duty. Even if Curran and Broad survived tonight, they would be wickets waiting to boost India's morale early tomorrow.

A skipper needs to back his batsmen.

Still stick with that view as I always have done even though Cook doesn't help my cause - or more importantly, England's - tonight.

It's still too early to say we've thrown away the game but from being 216/3 and having India 100/5, we've thrown away two great positions of strength.

Btw - just twigged with thanks to cricinfo that 26 was India's second top score. That really puts Kohli's innings in context.

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Post by Gooseberry Thu 02 Aug 2018, 6:49 pm

Anyone forgiven Rashid for being selected yet?

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Post by LivinginItaly Thu 02 Aug 2018, 6:56 pm

Fantastic test match so far. Yes England have squandered two opportunities to really push home their advantage. For me the game is very evenly balanced at the moment particularly given that India must bat last. India could take a strong grip on the game in the first session tomorrow. England would probably need to bat well for two sessions to build a strong position. In reality the game will probably continue to be a tense affair throughout the day with various momentum changes. Just like a close test series should be.

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Post by guildfordbat Thu 02 Aug 2018, 7:00 pm

Gooseberry wrote:Anyone forgiven Rashid for being selected yet?

Certainly haven't forgiven the oafs who picked him.

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Post by Eejit Thu 02 Aug 2018, 7:27 pm

I'm not usually one for cricket, but I was off today and I'm not ashamed to admit I sat on the couch and watched basically the whole thing. Really entertaining and I'll definitely be watching it more often.

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Post by msp83 Thu 02 Aug 2018, 7:53 pm

Think at the end of the day, the game is pretty much even. Cook, the regular tormentor of India won't be doing that in this test match, but there are too many among them who tend to fancy the Indian attack.
Hopefully Ashwin would take a lot of confidence from his performance so far in the game, and the seamers would offer him better support and they all will hold on to the catches.

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Post by KP_fan Thu 02 Aug 2018, 8:20 pm

The game has ebbed and flowed, I watched live  parts and 1 hour highlights in full and I am with mixed feelings.....

--Terribly disappointed by all our main batsmen not converting,especially when the openers had seen off Broad & Anderson......overseas test match wins are premium and you've gotta hit the ground running

and especially the way Rahul,Karthik didn't move their feet & Rahane fell to a "waft"

these guys were mentally just not in the intense 100% zone......they will all get better focused  I think though but opportunity lost to put the game beyond Eng

--Only Kohli hit the ground running and with mental intensity, mind over matter, overcame scratchy start, edgy drops to produce a super inning.....and in the process getting the monkey of "scoring in Eng" off  his back....reducing this to a single inning shoot-out

--I thought Stokes was the best of English bowlers and Curran an honest fast medium swing bowler, though better than his medium pace right arm brother.....got more to show than he is worth
India will play him better with time.....as in my view he is quite one dimensional and drops in pace in long spells...although he is young & can build muscle mass and add a yard of pace in next two years.
Adil was laboring & Broad off-color like he is every other game.

--Momentum is with India but momentum has swung many times and means little......Ind has to chase which still makes Eng favorite and although most commentators believe Pitch won't change much....I could already see a few balls keeping low.
Ind has to keep the chase below 250 and even then Eng is 60-40 ahead
A 220 chase would be  the 50-50 mark in this game.
Ishant and Umesh have to pull their weight with at least tight and fast bowling...not trying too hard to take wickets
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Post by alfie Thu 02 Aug 2018, 8:58 pm

So : an enthralling day ends with a repeat of the first innings Cook bowled by a Jaffa from Ashwin - which probably makes it honors even on the day.
And with England effectively 22/1 the game state is also extremely tight.
Unlike Duty I'd have England a shade ahead : India must bat last and the degree to which they relied on their skipper in that first innings suggests they might struggle to chase anything reasonably challenging. The fact that the late stands and later wicket eroded most of the home team's advantage doesn't change the fact that they still have that - slight - advantage. Not what most expected 24 hours ago.
But of course a lot depends on how England play in this second innings. There will be good balls - not just from Ashwin - to be survived. The key is not gifting wickets through loss of concentration when they really do not need to...

Cracking match so far. Let us hope it continues to entertain us all thumbsup

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Post by Nathaniel Jacobs Thu 02 Aug 2018, 9:43 pm

Well that boy Kohli can play, heck can he play. FOr me the drop catches are irrelevant, if someone offers you a chance and you don't take it -tough sh...

Kohli showed his mastery of the willow. The relentless pursuit of runs. Once we set the deeper fields it turns into an ODI situation and Kohli's already the greatest ODI batsman of all time. His marshalling of the tail was sensational, something that Inzamam was capable of doing.

Root's captaincy beggars belief at times. Poor fellow Stokes looked dead on his feet yet Root emptied his tank. Whys Broad only bowling 10 overs? Root didn't show enough faith in Rashid either.

We are on top but Ashwin looks a real threat

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Thu 02 Aug 2018, 10:13 pm

An incredible days cricket - and what a test so far. England will obviously regret dropping Kohli but what a masterful knock it was after that - heck of a player.

Game is still very finely poised - if conditions stay as they were for the first two days then a chase of 220-250 will be a 50/50 game, if england can somehow muster towards 300 lead they’re in the box seat.

Malan needs a score tomorrow, otherwise I think he’ll be gone for the next test. The drops today will have piled the pressure on
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Post by Duty281 Thu 02 Aug 2018, 10:26 pm

Indeed, a tremendous day of test cricket. Some superb bowling by Curran and Stokes, some shocking fielding, appalling umpiring, and heaps of tension and excitement. And the day belonged, in the end, to Kohli.

I think England will finish up setting India around 180-200, which India will chase down. In truth, I believe India could chase anything up to 250 quite comfortably.

One of England's three premier batsmen is already gone. If the other two, Root and Bairstow, are captured in the morning, that's the game. Huge pressure on Root tomorrow - the questions over his captaincy, not enough tons, and matching the level of Kohli will all be wearing him down.

Time to lump on India at 11/8 and enjoy the second half.

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Post by guildfordbat Thu 02 Aug 2018, 11:17 pm

Eejit wrote:I'm not usually one for cricket, but I was off today and I'm not ashamed to admit I sat on the couch and watched basically the whole thing. Really entertaining and I'll definitely be watching it more often.

Eejit - you're doomed now, mate. That's how so many of us sad gits got started. Wink

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Post by LivinginItaly Fri 03 Aug 2018, 6:09 am

I think India will be able to chase anything under 280, as I can't see all of their players failing again with the bat (excluding kohli obviously). England really need to build a lead of 300 or more to put less pressure on their bowlers ( particularly Rashid) for the fourth innings. Is broad unwell?

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Post by alfie Fri 03 Aug 2018, 7:02 am

Interesting views above ref India chasing 250 or 280...

I am not so sure any chase will automatically be easy. The message from the first innings is surely that none of India's batsmen - except the skipper ,of course - are yet totally comfortable on a pretty normal English pitch. Even Kohli had a tremendous battle to survive against Anderson. Unless they absolutely skittle England tomorrow I'd imagine chasing in the fourth innings will be challenging at least.

I can't put a run estimate on whats a "safe" lead : it depends an awful lot on how pitch conditions develop. If they are fairly benign you'd expect England to set a relatively higher target - but then again India would have a better chance to overhaul it. If on the other hand wear and tear makes batting trickier then it would likely be a lower target...but perhaps one harder to run down...
I actually think the key is England batting time. Whatever they get , it is important not to put their key bowlers back in the field too soon after their first innings efforts (thinking particularly of Jimmy , and Stokes , who worked their socks off yesterday.) So they need two or three players to bat long.
So far in this match only four players have passed thirty so not so easy , perhaps.



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Post by LivinginItaly Fri 03 Aug 2018, 7:17 am

I see this as a perfect opportunity for some of the "less illustrious" batsmen to make a name for themselves. Step forward Jennings, Malan and Buttler (in this format). One thing is for certain to be competitive in this series we can't always rely on Cook (two failures here), Root, Bairstow and Stokes (maybe will only play the first test) to make the runs.

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Post by alfie Fri 03 Aug 2018, 7:21 am

As to individuals : India will be concerned at the poor batting of Rahul , Rahane and the all rounders ; and will want some better bowling from Umesh in particular. I see the Indian fans on here pushing for Pant ...and Karthik has done nothing to dispel that so far.

For England there will be concerns over Cook's falling twice in nearly identical fashion to Ashwin : he is likely to be confronted with the latter early in all innings from now on !  They'll be generally happy with the bowling , though with a query on Broad - why was he not used for more than ten overs ? or against the tail ?

Rashid ? Hmm.  Did one of the things a wrist spinner is supposed to do in getting the last two wickets ; but it took a long time and a lot of runs. He didn't really look too dangerous , though that may partly be down to the regrettably passive approach by Root in the field once Kohli was left with only the rabbits...he really needs to get past that. It didn't work with Smith ; it won't work with Kohli.
I'm not backing Rashid to be a match winner but maybe we will see in a day or two.

Man would be a damn fool to try and call this match at this stage. I might be a fool but I won't go further than suggesting England are marginally ahead after two days ; and that we should all have a much better idea by stumps tomorrow .

Good game so far , hope it continues to charm.

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Post by Gooseberry Fri 03 Aug 2018, 9:27 am

Fair bit of grey cloud around and a bit of damp in the air so some promise for the Indian seamers.
The loss of Cook was a big blow, although England have largely made do with him as a passenger for the last year (yes two double centuries...but only 1 other score over 46). Its does though put pressure on Root whos never been 100% happy at 3, and whilst Jennings scored a few we pretty much all agree hes in the side diue to a lack of options rather than being a genuine test opener..and if the balls moving you feel hes very vulnerable.
Malan at least does have some experience at the top of the order, but he looks like a player under pressure even when not batting. A big test of charachter and ability today especially if theres an early wicket.
Players have shown that there are runs to be scored on the pitch when not getting out in daft ways, but its never going to be chanceless. It really is a good advertisment for fair pitches and what test cricket should be. Both batting and bowling skill is rewarded.

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Post by guildfordbat Fri 03 Aug 2018, 9:48 am

alfie wrote:Interesting views above ref India chasing 250 or 280...

I am not so sure any chase will automatically be easy.  The message from the first innings is surely that none of India's batsmen - except the skipper ,of course - are yet totally comfortable on a pretty normal English pitch. Even Kohli had a tremendous battle to survive against Anderson.  Unless they absolutely skittle England tomorrow I'd imagine chasing in the fourth innings will be challenging at least.

I can't put a run estimate on whats a "safe" lead : it depends an awful lot on how pitch conditions develop. If they are fairly benign you'd expect England to set a relatively higher target - but then again India would have a better chance to overhaul it. If on the other hand wear and tear makes batting trickier then it would likely be a lower target...but perhaps one harder to run down...
I actually think the key is England batting time.  Whatever they get , it is important not to put their key bowlers back in the field too soon after their first innings efforts (thinking particularly of Jimmy , and Stokes , who worked their socks off yesterday.)  So they need two or three players to bat long.
So far in this match only four players have passed thirty so not so easy , perhaps.



Hi Alfie - two points there for me. Totally agree with you on one and largely on the other although I widen it.

Firstly, your are right - there are two many ''what ifs'' to properly determine a ''safe'' lead. As well as the pitch, there's the uncertainty over India's batting. If Kohli goes early and the other ten replicate their form of yesterday, 150 could be sufficient. There again, if Kohli excels once more and a proper batsman sticks with him, 350 might not be enough although I would still bite your hand off if offered that here now. That's before saying anything about our bowling and, especially, catching!

I also go along with you about ''batting time'', although at risk of wanting my cliched cake and eating it, it is important we also keep the scoreboard ticking over. I don't mean in hyped-up Jason Roy mode but just sensibly. One of my fears is that we will go into our shells against Ashwin enabling him to exert further control and dictate proceedings. Cricinfo show he went in our first innings at just 2.4 runs per over whilst Rashid went at 3.9 (slight rounding up for both). For all my banter with msp, this is very much at the heart of my concerns about Rashid as a Test match bowler. I don't believe that he will be able to keep it tight enough and particularly if we are defending a low score.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Fri 03 Aug 2018, 11:06 am

guildfordbat wrote:
alfie wrote:Interesting views above ref India chasing 250 or 280...

I am not so sure any chase will automatically be easy.  The message from the first innings is surely that none of India's batsmen - except the skipper ,of course - are yet totally comfortable on a pretty normal English pitch. Even Kohli had a tremendous battle to survive against Anderson.  Unless they absolutely skittle England tomorrow I'd imagine chasing in the fourth innings will be challenging at least.

I can't put a run estimate on whats a "safe" lead : it depends an awful lot on how pitch conditions develop. If they are fairly benign you'd expect England to set a relatively higher target - but then again India would have a better chance to overhaul it. If on the other hand wear and tear makes batting trickier then it would likely be a lower target...but perhaps one harder to run down...
I actually think the key is England batting time.  Whatever they get , it is important not to put their key bowlers back in the field too soon after their first innings efforts (thinking particularly of Jimmy , and Stokes , who worked their socks off yesterday.)  So they need two or three players to bat long.
So far in this match only four players have passed thirty so not so easy , perhaps.



Hi Alfie - two points there for me. Totally agree with you on one and largely on the other although I widen it.

Firstly, your are right - there are two many ''what ifs'' to properly determine a ''safe'' lead. As well as the pitch, there's the uncertainty over India's batting.  If Kohli goes early and the other ten replicate their form of yesterday, 150 could be sufficient. There again, if Kohli excels once more and a proper batsman sticks with him, 350 might not be enough although I would still bite your hand off if offered that here now. That's before saying anything about our bowling and, especially, catching!

I also go along with you about ''batting time'', although at risk of wanting my cliched cake and eating it, it is important we also keep the scoreboard ticking over. I don't mean in hyped-up Jason Roy mode but just sensibly. One of my fears is that we will go into our shells against Ashwin enabling him to exert further control and dictate proceedings. Cricinfo show he went in our first innings at just 2.4 runs per over whilst Rashid went at 3.9 (slight rounding  up for both). For all my banter with msp, this is very much at the heart of my concerns about Rashid as a Test match bowler. I don't believe that he will be able to keep it tight enough and particularly if we are defending a low score.

I'm not so sure it's about keeping it tight, so much as Ashwin is bowling to English batsmen (who at the best of times, can barely play spin), whereas Rashid is bowling to masters of spin. Albeit clearly Ashwin is a better bowler at this juncture - I do think people often forget that when comparing spinners in England series...
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Post by Duty281 Fri 03 Aug 2018, 11:13 am

Jennings isn't planning on sticking around for too long.

Pre-meditated sweeps, hanging the bat way outside off. Deary me.

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Post by LondonTiger Fri 03 Aug 2018, 11:15 am

Gooseberry wrote:Anyone forgiven Rashid for being selected yet?

Nothing to forgive, not his fault he was selected. The 4th innings will probably prove career defining for Dilly, perform well and he will be with England for the rest of the summer - perform poorly and he may be back with Yorkshire for a few games before he leaves us.

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