England's Indian Summer - T20s, ODIs & Tests

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Off goes Rahul...at least he doesn't waste a review ! That was stone dead.
Jimmy on course for ten ?

Rahane in next as Kohli was off the field too long...

Nathaniel Jacobs wrote:

Gooseberry wrote:

Nathaniel Jacobs wrote:

jeffwinger wrote:What a bizarre selection!

So we now have...
- 3 specialist batsmen (1 of whom in Jennings has proven not not be up to it)
- 2 wicket-keepers
- 4 all-rounders
- 2 bowlers

Challenge anyone to find a similar set-up in the history of the game!

If we were going to shunt everyone up a slot again, why not give Pope the chance to bat at 6/7 rather than drop him?

Moeen bowled India out at Southampton in 2014

So why retain Rashid?

Stokes isn't fully fit

Yeah ...does make more sense in that context...but why not another seamer if he cant bowl? I guess as it was fairly last minute and they didnt have any remaining options in the squad and the likes of Overton are short of test readiness.

But if Stokes really isnt bowling or bowling much then England are really banjaxed. The side looks a mess, injury enforced or not.

Popes unfortunate.

Ok that is a very strange selection if Moeen isn't playing as a specialist bat (to be fair, at the moment I would say he's more likely to score runs than Pope is, so have no huge anger at that selection decision) - batting him at 7? That's mad.

Is Stokes going to be fit enough to bowl? Everything I've read seems to suggest not, which means they're going in with three seamers and two spinners? Albeit Woakes isn't fit to play anyways, so that's just what we have!

Lets hope they can someone cobble together a performance - it's not often England lose two tests in a row at home, but there must be a decent chance of that happening this week...

Duty281 wrote:Oh for goodness sake, that is the worst selection all summer.

Only three players (Cook, Bairstow, Root) of which you would trust to do the business with the bat - sadly, one is out of form, one is injured and one can't cope with the pressure. What has Pope done to be dropped? Lose the last game by 203 runs, and the solution is apparently to reduce the number of pure batsmen.

Then you have a mish-mash of bits and pieces hitters - Stokes will be coming in when England are three down! Then you've got two spinners on a non-turning track selected to play against the best country in the world at playing spin!

Foolish. England are getting smashed in this test.

My reaction was much the same on initial view Duty ...but England are desperately short of options if Woakes is injured and Stokes unable to be relied on to bowl much if at all ( short of dropping him which they wont) .
It could be worse, they couldve called up a failed test 4 who struggling in that position in Div 2 to play as an opener

Stokes’s journey to fitness has been very confusing

they selected Vince in the squad, why not play him
I think Malan was also unlucky to have been d opped

KP_fan wrote:they selected Vince in the squad, why not play him
I think Malan was also unlucky to have been d opped

He was selected as cover for Bairstow. Bairstows fit. Vince cant bowl. Talk of him as an opener was absolute nonsense. They arent going to drop Stokes whether hes fit to bowl or not...thats the only player in the side he could've replaced. Why not...beacuse its Stokesy and hes a good lad ( he also just batted well and is a semi functional slip fielder)

Malan averages 27 in tests, and is struggling this season in Div 2 of county cricket. Whilst that arguably puts him on a par with most of Englands current test batsmen, and maybe he couldve been given a longer run in hindsight, it also doesnt suggest hes exactly unlucky not to be playing ahead of Root, Bairstow or Stokes (the payers he could be competing for a spot with in this side).

Oh dear what a mess that selection is. Firstly, it is sadly lacking specialist batsmen. Secondly, it is risking playing players who are nursing injuries (Bairstow and Stokes). Thirdly, playing two spinners is plain daft. Fourthly, it is hardly a selection for the future axing youngster Pope for Moeen - a bits and pieces player with no test match form for a year.

India warm favourites to level the series.

I am sure Kohli will get his fastest men Bumrah & also Ishant to dig-it-in to Bairstow and get it to climb into his body
& if they catch him fending awkwardly on the glove.....they could have him indisposed for the rest of the game

I would also be interested in seeing where Bairstow will field and how he will catch

Hadnt noticed till i read it just now...
This is the same England batsmen in the top 7 that India took apart in the last test of the 2016 series.

Fills me with confidence

So both Rashid and Moeen in. What are England up to? Is it a subcontinental track out there?
Is Jadeja coming in? If so for whom? Shami?

Is this going to be the reason for Virat Kohli to yet again play a different 11 to the previous test, just like he did in all the 38 times he has led India?
If it is likely to be a proper spinning track, only then should Jadeja come in. If it is a track likely to spin by late day 4, then Ashwin is enough. Jadeja, in non-spinning conditions, can be a containing option, not a wickettaking one. He is deadly in spinning conditions, but regardless of the England selection, one is rather unlikely to encounter such spinning conditions in England.
The only reason a Jadeja selection can be an option that can be considered is that Hardik Pandya is there, and as such India still will have 3 seamers to do the bulk of the bowling in the first innings, and Jadeja can add more to the batting and fielding departments.
Still, I think sticking to the same team is the best way to go.

Kohli, on the match eve, predicted that spin will have a significant role in the 2nd innings... Cricinfo reports that Jadeja has been training extensively...
So 39 out of 39 then?

msp83 wrote:Kohli, on the match eve, predicted that spin will have a significant role in the 2nd innings... Cricinfo reports that Jadeja has been training extensively...
So 39 out of 39 then?

did you see the video?
kohli said unless its a JoBurg like pitch he does not see an all pace attack....and this is not JoBurg
He also said he's not likely to change the combination
As I see it same 11 and if pitch turns on D4 , D5......Ashwin is enough
Jadeja practicing is only cover for ashwin in my view

KP_fan wrote:

msp83 wrote:Kohli, on the match eve, predicted that spin will have a significant role in the 2nd innings... Cricinfo reports that Jadeja has been training extensively...
So 39 out of 39 then?

did you see the video?
kohli said unless its a JoBurg like pitch he does not see an all pace attack....and this is not JoBurg
He also said he's not likely to change the combination
As I see it same 11 and if pitch turns on D4 , D5......Ashwin is enough
Jadeja practicing is only cover for ashwin in my view

With Virat, as you know, never can say.

Well the England team at a glance does seem a bit of a muddle. However, on closer inspection I think there have been one or two moves in the right direction.

1) I think the selectors see Bairstow's injury as a good way of painlessly moving the gloves to Buttler. This both justifies Buttler's place in the team at 6/7 and allows Bairstow to concentrate on being  one of our better batsman at 4. It is probably what Smith wanted to do from the moment he recalled Buttler.

2) Curran is only included due to the injury of Woakes, but it gives another opportunity to see if he is the real deal both with the ball and bat.

3) Really there is only space for one of Rashid or Ali. Ali is by far the better batsman, Rashid is the better spinner ( by how much is definitely a topic for debate) In this test we will be able to see a direct comparison and I imagine only one of them will be picked for the last test and for the winter series.

4) The top three is still a problem, but one without immediately obvious solutions. Jennings in my opinion is not good enough, but are the replacements really any better? I don't have a problem with giving him the last two tests before making a definitive call on his test career. Cook hasn't produced a score yet, but at times has seemed in good nick. I feel that he will get his customary big score for the series in this or the next test. Root probably would be better at 4 instead of three, but I feel first England need to resolve the opener problem before trying somebody new at 3.

I just hope for a big first innings total from England.

It is interesting that Mo is always said to want to have a clear role. So England recall him and definitely don't give him one.

He's not frontline spinner.
He's looking to be well down the order, so he isn't a frontline batsman.

It looks like they're going with

Cook (out of form or in decline)
Jennings (out of his depth?)
Root (better at 4)
Bairstow (injured keeper who can't keep so is batting)
Stokes (all-rounder who can’t bowl)
Buttler (specialist 7 batting at 6 and now keeper)
Mo (not good enough to be main spinner or bat in the top order?)
Curran (dropped for Stokes, but now recalled and will do Stokes's bowling for him)

Or, as I saw online:

England have a bloke batting at three who wants to bat at four, a bloke batting four who likes to bat five, a bloke batting five who likes to bat six, a bloke batting at six who was picked as a specialist seven, and a number seven who scored 219 last week batting at three.

England win the toss (again!) and this time young Joe does the right thing and bats first - and India finally name an unchanged XI!

Oh frikk...bloody Kohli loses another toss and Eng already 60-40 ahead as they get to bat first

Gooseberry wrote:Hadnt noticed till i read it just now...
This is the same England batsmen in the top 7 that India took apart in the last test of the 2016 series.

Fills me with confidence

I noticed that. Does suggest they don't learn...

On the other hand with the squad they had and the injury issues its hard to see what else they could have done . I would have played Vince (at three , praying) and left out Rashid ...but that would , if Stokes isn't bowling much , have arguably left them light in that department. Though I suspect Stokes will bowl short spells if required.
Guess if Anderson Broad - and Curran , this week - don't do the business , they're in trouble. But that tends to be the normal situation.
More concerned about that batting. The one merit in my Vince at three plan was getting Root back to four where he thrives and all the others back in places that suit them better. This configuration is really asking for trouble if early wickets fall ... And they've been doing so a lot lately

Hey they could get away with it - this time. Doesn't make me feel any better about the Smith / Bayliss / Root selection planning...seems like they're using a dartboard - or "hunch of the week" rather than logical thinking.

But happy to see Curran - and Moeen - getting another chance. Pope can come again.

Woakes and Pope dropped from the team and they made inroads for Ali and Curan. I don't know why Rashid is in the team. Woakes should have retained. Overall the side is balanced and can bat long. India loses the toss yet again.

Selection issues won't go away with the winter tours approaching - especially in Sri Lanka, when you really only need to play two seamers as an absolute maximum, but need 3/4 spinners...(similar to Bangladesh a few years ago). Will be interesting to see what they do, as I think only one of Broad/Anderson should play alongside Stokes (if fit to bowl), and then pack the side with spinners...(Moeen, Rashid, Leach, Bess, Virdi, Parkinson all in contention - Dawson/Crane outside shouts)

subhranshu.kumar.5 wrote:Woakes and Pope dropped from the team and they made inroads for Ali and Curan. I don't know why Rashid is in the team. Woakes should have retained. Overall the side is balanced and can bat long. India loses the toss yet again.

Woakes is out injured unfortunately Kumar

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:It is interesting that Mo is always said to want to have a clear role. So England recall him and definitely don't give him one.

He's not frontline spinner.
He's looking to be well down the order, so he isn't a frontline batsman.

It looks like they're going with

Cook (out of form or in decline)
Jennings (out of his depth?)
Root (better at 4)
Bairstow (injured keeper who can't keep so is batting)
Stokes (all-rounder who can’t bowl)
Buttler (specialist 7 batting at 6 and now keeper)
Mo (not good enough to be main spinner or bat in the top order?)
Curran (dropped for Stokes, but now recalled and will do Stokes's bowling for him)

I am quite surprised at your analysis of stokes. Overall the team looks bit feeble. However you never know Cook, Root, Butler can be dangerous at anytime. I am surprised at Rashid's selection.

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:

subhranshu.kumar.5 wrote:Woakes and Pope dropped from the team and they made inroads for Ali and Curan. I don't know why Rashid is in the team. Woakes should have retained. Overall the side is balanced and can bat long. India loses the toss yet again.

Woakes is out injured unfortunately Kumar

Oops, was not aware.

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Selection issues won't go away with the winter tours approaching - especially in Sri Lanka, when you really only need to play two seamers as an absolute maximum, but need 3/4 spinners...(similar to Bangladesh a few years ago). Will be interesting to see what they do, as I think only one of Broad/Anderson should play alongside Stokes (if fit to bowl), and then pack the side with spinners...(Moeen, Rashid, Leach, Bess, Virdi, Parkinson all in contention - Dawson/Crane outside shouts)

Not sure about that. Sri Lanka may be rank turners ; may not. Pace bowlers have taken wickets there before. I don't think Stokes as one of two seamers cuts it. Especially as the spinners won't strike terror into the home batsmen's hearts...
But that's for later.

Should get a full five days in, if necessary, no rain forecast, as the sun shines on our green and pleasant land.

300 is the new 400 - that's where England need to get to on a good batting track.

Jennings out for a duck. An absolute rip-snorter from Bumrah - massive swing. 1/1.

Bumrah and Sharma have started out excellently in terms of line.

Jennings - “can’t be out playing a bad shot if I don’t play a shot”

subhranshu.kumar.5 wrote:

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:It is interesting that Mo is always said to want to have a clear role. So England recall him and definitely don't give him one.

He's not frontline spinner.
He's looking to be well down the order, so he isn't a frontline batsman.

It looks like they're going with

Cook (out of form or in decline)
Jennings (out of his depth?)
Root (better at 4)
Bairstow (injured keeper who can't keep so is batting)
Stokes (all-rounder who can’t bowl)
Buttler (specialist 7 batting at 6 and now keeper)
Mo (not good enough to be main spinner or bat in the top order?)
Curran (dropped for Stokes, but now recalled and will do Stokes's bowling for him)

I am quite surprised at your analysis of stokes. Overall the team looks bit feeble. However you never know Cook, Root, Butler can be dangerous at anytime. I am surprised at Rashid's selection.

Reported to be unfit to bowl for this test. That’s two fitness bits you’ve missed for this one

Imo leaving one that pitches leg stump and hits halfway up middle isn't a good idea Keaton

Clearly had decided he was leaving the ball in the run up - certainly didn't play it out of the hand...you'd hope!!!

First time I've seen a DRS referral from the fielding side declined due to a no-ball!

Lucky for Root, as it looked very out.

Going back to your original point MSP theres not really a suggestion that its going ot be a two spinners pitch, although the weather forecast is a bit sunnier than the pervious tests. Roots interview suggests that they were determined to pick a half fit Stokes even if he couldnt bowl at all, but especially in light oif missing Woakes felt that meant they needed another attacking bowling option as cover (ratehr than a batsman who can bowl a few fill in overs like Root, Malan etc). That spare bowler also needed to be able to bat, Moeen fits the bill perfectly...aside from being a spinner.
I suspect if Stokes had not been fit at all they wouldve had another seamer in, and quite possibly dropped Rashid.
As it is though theyve hedged their bets a bit.


The real issue this highlights, with both Bairstow and Stokes, is how large the disparity in quality between the few good players they have (Root, Baistow, Stokes, Anderson, Woakes at home, Broad) the squad players and then another step down into the reserves. England are compelled to select their best players even when carrying injuries and unable to perform one of their primary duties.
Someone alluded to the situation in the 90s earlier, it really does feel like that. Englands keeper, reserve keeper, and all rounder are better than almost all of the specialist batsmen available...but without being at Alex Stewarts level with the bat.
Its a year and half on from what was supposed to be a watershed moment for the test team when they lost the fifth test in India. Lots of changes later we are back to the same failed batsmen and 4 of the same 6 bowlers that shipped over 759 runs for 7 wickets. Of that side its only Liam Dawson that England have fully moved on from.
Its not like they havent tried new players, but its exclusively been home conditions seamners who have faired well. The three spinners newly capped all average over 40 (100 in Cranes case), and the new batsmen all dropped.
Stoneman, Malan, Ducket, Westley (avergaing 17 this season!) and more than any Habib have all serious dip since being dropped. Of the "new" players its only Vince whos really making a case that his dropping was harsh and looking viable for a recall. Pope I guess we can reserve judgement on ....Roots comments make it apparent they dropped him to ballance the team and that they felt he had a future...but hes not exactly set the world on fire to date.
Essentially England havent moved on at all in terms of establishing new test players who are going to improve the side. Thats pretty depressing. They were bad when they went to India, they havent got any better since and are increasingly reliant on a small pool of players and home conditions to compete.
The County Championship isnt offering up much hope. Burns and Clarke are the two stand out batsmen yet to be ruined by England, and I do feel England have missed a trick in the series not to have capped Burns. Beyond that though its largely foriegn players scoring the runs in D1 (plus the other two keepers and some retired england test players). The top D1 wicket takers are Tom Bailey (whos nowhere on Englands radar ...never even been in a performance squad, yet another fast medium right arm seamer), Graham Onions (last test 2012!), and Fidel Edwards (older than Anderson), and Simon Harmer the retired SA A team all rounder. The potential England bowlers are being outperformed by journeymen.

England are ending this series with a side held together by sticky tape despertaley trying to plug gaps. Turning back to failed players because the new caps are more injured or worse or both.

So yes they have bits and pieces players stuck all over the order. Guys like Moeen that England show little confidence in either discpline, but feel compelled to pick anyway to enable Stokes to play whilst injured. The only real development player is Curran, and hes picked through injury and lack of options.
You think this team looks a mish mash now, imagine what it will look like if Cook retires and they rest Anderson and Broad over the winter.

Bit of luck for young Joe there

How on earth was that given not out on field anyway ? Not that it matters with he overstep , but still...

alfie wrote:

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Selection issues won't go away with the winter tours approaching - especially in Sri Lanka, when you really only need to play two seamers as an absolute maximum, but need 3/4 spinners...(similar to Bangladesh a few years ago). Will be interesting to see what they do, as I think only one of Broad/Anderson should play alongside Stokes (if fit to bowl), and then pack the side with spinners...(Moeen, Rashid, Leach, Bess, Virdi, Parkinson all in contention - Dawson/Crane outside shouts)

Not sure about that.  Sri Lanka may be rank turners ; may not. Pace bowlers have taken wickets there before. I don't think Stokes as one of two seamers cuts it. Especially as the spinners won't strike terror into the home batsmen's hearts...
But that's for later.

Sadly England dont have any real pace bowlers. Id expect them to look at using Moeen and Stokes plus two other spinners (Rashid/Leach/Bess/Vidri) and two seamers ( will depend if they do rest Broad and Anderson)
Id agree Stokes doesnt cut it as one of two, he cant be relied to bowl that much..but one of 3 if it is a turner is reasonable. But England will use their all rounders, since they dont have any batsmen worth selecting.

alfie wrote:

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Selection issues won't go away with the winter tours approaching - especially in Sri Lanka, when you really only need to play two seamers as an absolute maximum, but need 3/4 spinners...(similar to Bangladesh a few years ago). Will be interesting to see what they do, as I think only one of Broad/Anderson should play alongside Stokes (if fit to bowl), and then pack the side with spinners...(Moeen, Rashid, Leach, Bess, Virdi, Parkinson all in contention - Dawson/Crane outside shouts)

Not sure about that.  Sri Lanka may be rank turners ; may not. Pace bowlers have taken wickets there before. I don't think Stokes as one of two seamers cuts it. Especially as the spinners won't strike terror into the home batsmen's hearts...
But that's for later.

Yes we can debate that in a few weeks (I am very much of the opinion play as many spinners as possible - I am certain they'll be raging turners too. Sri Lanka ain't gonna be asking the curators for anything other than that with England in town!)

India apparently don't lose one of their reviews for that overstep from Bumrah.

Cook leaving well and being watchful. Root looks a mess whenever anything zones in on the stumps.

There goes Joe. How’s batting at 4, Jonny?!

Root trapped by a swinging delivery. Wastes a review, too, that was plumb. His reprieve didn't last long.

Very helpful bowling conditions, contrary to expectations.

what a wasted review by Root, it was missing nothing

Now they need to dig it in and get the ball to climb into the rib cage of Bairstwo and catch him on the gloves

Bairstow looks totally clueless against this excellent swing bowling.

12:07 and only 12 overs bowled...that is absymal

Will give Cook credit for seeing that hour out in swinging conditions, against a man who has got him a lot, whilst not being fluent. Opener seeing out time of that new ball is great for the rest, especially with your other opener and then your captain (and vaunted best batsman) also going.

It's only 15 runs, it's only a start, but it's worth something.

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:12:07 and only 12 overs bowled...that is absymal

Nothing will change until the fielding side start getting fined, in runs, for the overs missed.

Excellent bowling from the Indian opening pair

Got a lot of movement ; good consistent attack for the first hour. Cook did well to survive. Jennings did get a snorter ...but continues to look short of the class required , I'm afraid. Second innings here will likely be his last.
Root all at sea. Has to get back to four , surely no argument unless Bayliss just wants to be mulishly stubborn ? I don't care who comes in at three...

Jonny hasn't been hit on the finger yet ; but I wish he'd look to play a bit straighter....gone now !

Trouble...

Duty281 wrote:Bairstow looks totally clueless against this excellent swing bowling.

No surprise that he nicks behind. Rubbish footwork.

England are in big trouble.

28-3, Jonny goes

Duty281 wrote:Bairstow looks totally clueless against this excellent swing bowling.

yes he looked clueless and ended miserably

Stokes in a lot earlier than we'd like...

Can he play another solid hand ? Tough work against this good bowling.

Winning the toss hasn't proved much of an advantage so far...

It doesnt mattwr who you select if they dont play to their ability.
Bairstow and Root are both test class batsmen, but done all over.

This is horrible.

alfie wrote:Winning the toss hasn't proved much of an advantage so far...

Great toss for Kohli to lose. He would have batted first on this, and Anderson would have wreaked similar havoc.