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Poaching, project players, residency qualifications etc.

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Post by Biltong 23.10.18 21:23

First topic message reminder :

Continue here about the greatness of NH rugby players, the money the clubs have, the greatness of the SH rugby players and the leak to the north.

Other topic is full

Etc.
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Post by Biltong 26.10.18 12:07

LondonTiger wrote:
Biltong wrote:Good post there tman.

Only in the Trumpian dystopia we now live in, is it normalised for such a passive aggressive post, containing various digs at people be approved by authority.

Sure there were some valid points that can be debated, but neither side really wants to listen to the other. Everyone believes only their own point of view is valid. We are seeing the same arguments in so many threads I am starting to wonder which users are from a Moscow troll bit farm, cutting and pasting their "opinions" backed by alternative facts.

Yes, agree with you that each side refuses to budge, so be it then.
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Post by ebop 26.10.18 12:11

SecretFly wrote:
carpet baboon wrote: we live in a world where money is king

OK

Yeah, I'd turn down a lot of jobs actually even if the money was good...but that's a whole other topic.

For now, what you said that I highlighted is the only total truth in this thread.  All Hail Money.
^ This is the real truth
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Post by Biltong 26.10.18 12:16

ebop wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
carpet baboon wrote: we live in a world where money is king

OK

Yeah, I'd turn down a lot of jobs actually even if the money was good...but that's a whole other topic.

For now, what you said that I highlighted is the only total truth in this thread.  All Hail Money.
^ This is the real truth

I once turned down a deal that would have paid me three months commission, just because the prospective client demanded I wear a suit when I meet the rest of his investors.

But then money has never been my vice.
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Post by SecretFly 26.10.18 12:21

Biltong wrote:
ebop wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
carpet baboon wrote: we live in a world where money is king

OK

Yeah, I'd turn down a lot of jobs actually even if the money was good...but that's a whole other topic.

For now, what you said that I highlighted is the only total truth in this thread.  All Hail Money.
^ This is the real truth

I once turned down a deal that would have paid me three months commission, just because the prospective client demanded I wear a suit when I meet the rest of his investors.

But then money has never been my vice.

clap You're my kinda man, Bilt! Cool


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Post by carpet baboon 26.10.18 12:45

Biltong wrote:
ebop wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
carpet baboon wrote: we live in a world where money is king

OK

Yeah, I'd turn down a lot of jobs actually even if the money was good...but that's a whole other topic.

For now, what you said that I highlighted is the only total truth in this thread.  All Hail Money.
^ This is the real truth

I once turned down a deal that would have paid me three months commission, just because the prospective client demanded I wear a suit when I meet the rest of his investors.

But then money has never been my vice.

It must be nice that you were in a position to do that.
A large chunk of the world are not.

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Post by Biltong 26.10.18 12:46

carpet baboon wrote:
Biltong wrote:
ebop wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
carpet baboon wrote: we live in a world where money is king

OK

Yeah, I'd turn down a lot of jobs actually even if the money was good...but that's a whole other topic.

For now, what you said that I highlighted is the only total truth in this thread.  All Hail Money.
^ This is the real truth

I once turned down a deal that would have paid me three months commission, just because the prospective client demanded I wear a suit when I meet the rest of his investors.

But then money has never been my vice.

It must be nice that you were in a position to do that.
A large chunk of the world are not.

I am probably not in the position you think I am, I just believe in my principals.

Today he tells me to wear a suit, tomorrow something else....
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Post by The Oracle 26.10.18 12:48

Biltong wrote:
carpet baboon wrote:
Biltong wrote:
ebop wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
carpet baboon wrote: we live in a world where money is king

OK

Yeah, I'd turn down a lot of jobs actually even if the money was good...but that's a whole other topic.

For now, what you said that I highlighted is the only total truth in this thread.  All Hail Money.
^ This is the real truth

I once turned down a deal that would have paid me three months commission, just because the prospective client demanded I wear a suit when I meet the rest of his investors.

But then money has never been my vice.

It must be nice that you were in a position to do that.
A large chunk of the world are not.

I am probably not in the position you think I am, I just believe in my principals.

Today he tells me to wear a suit, tomorrow something else....


But if another client offers you 3 months commission but says you can wear what you want.....???
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Post by ebop 26.10.18 12:52

The Oracle wrote:
Biltong wrote:
carpet baboon wrote:
Biltong wrote:
ebop wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
carpet baboon wrote: we live in a world where money is king

OK

Yeah, I'd turn down a lot of jobs actually even if the money was good...but that's a whole other topic.

For now, what you said that I highlighted is the only total truth in this thread.  All Hail Money.
^ This is the real truth

I once turned down a deal that would have paid me three months commission, just because the prospective client demanded I wear a suit when I meet the rest of his investors.

But then money has never been my vice.

It must be nice that you were in a position to do that.
A large chunk of the world are not.

I am probably not in the position you think I am, I just believe in my principals.

Today he tells me to wear a suit, tomorrow something else....


But if another client offers you 3 months commission but says you can wear what you want.....???
Whoooooshhhh......
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Post by SecretFly 26.10.18 12:52

The Oracle wrote:


But if another client offers you 3 months commission but says you can wear what you want.....???

Then he can turn up in a suit....

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Post by ebop 26.10.18 13:01

carpet baboon wrote:
Biltong wrote:
ebop wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
carpet baboon wrote: we live in a world where money is king

OK

Yeah, I'd turn down a lot of jobs actually even if the money was good...but that's a whole other topic.

For now, what you said that I highlighted is the only total truth in this thread.  All Hail Money.
^ This is the real truth

I once turned down a deal that would have paid me three months commission, just because the prospective client demanded I wear a suit when I meet the rest of his investors.

But then money has never been my vice.

It must be nice that you were in a position to do that.
A large chunk of the world are not.
That is true. Biltong was lucky to be in that position but he did it for a reason. I hope you’re not trying to imply that professional rugby players ‘of the ilk we’re discussing’ are struggling for money.
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Post by Collapse2005 26.10.18 13:06

Richardt Strauss has said he could buy a farm in SA and set up his family for life by playing rugby in Ireland. Why wouldn't he want to do that? More power to him.

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Post by carpet baboon 26.10.18 13:09

ebop wrote:
carpet baboon wrote:
Biltong wrote:
ebop wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
carpet baboon wrote: we live in a world where money is king

OK

Yeah, I'd turn down a lot of jobs actually even if the money was good...but that's a whole other topic.

For now, what you said that I highlighted is the only total truth in this thread.  All Hail Money.
^ This is the real truth

I once turned down a deal that would have paid me three months commission, just because the prospective client demanded I wear a suit when I meet the rest of his investors.

But then money has never been my vice.

It must be nice that you were in a position to do that.
A large chunk of the world are not.
That is true. Biltong was lucky to be in that position but he did it for a reason. I hope you’re not trying to imply that professional rugby players ‘of the ilk we’re discussing’ are struggling for money.

Not I'm not at all. I'm just pointing out if someone came and offered you a job, the exact same job your doing now but was willing to pay you more, 99.9% of people would take it.

And in response to bilt, it's great he was able to say no to the job on a mater of principal, many many many people in this world arnt and never will be in that position and have to do what they can and principal be damned.
That's unfortunately the world we live in, I wish it wasn't, I wish my kids were growing up in a world that was fair and decent, and we all got along, but while money is king greed will win out.
It's depressing as hell, which is why I watch rugby for enjoyment

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Post by ebop 26.10.18 13:17

Collapse2005 wrote:Richardt Strauss has said he could buy a farm in SA and set up his family for life by playing rugby in Ireland. Why wouldn't he want to do that? More power to him.
Guess it depends on your values. I’ll give you a similar example of Carl Jayman. Think I got the name right. He was on course to be a NZ legend prop, but as it transpired, he’s a no-name that probably bought his NZ farm wherever the heck he said he wanted to buy. Is that guy still playing? Who knows, who cares. His career fizzled out into nothing and he will always be remembered as ‘that’ guy that sold out. Good on him. Enjoy milking those cow teets like a legend cow milker.


Last edited by ebop on 26.10.18 13:19; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Pot Hale 26.10.18 13:19

There’s a good few reports/interviews with James Lowe where he talks about his reasons for leaving NZ rugby, his health, and what he hopes to achieve - not going to make ABs, recurrence of his RA, knowledge that his career could end very suddenly, opportunity to earn good money in the next 5-10 years, that he might why he plays with a smile on his face, wanting to win, etc.

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Post by SecretFly 26.10.18 13:21

Collapse2005 wrote:Richardt Strauss has said he could buy a farm in SA and set up his family for life by playing rugby in Ireland. Why wouldn't he want to do that? More power to him.

And the Irish player he might replace or keep out could possibly buy a farm in SA too to set up his family. The weather is nice in SA and a lot of Irish people like farming. Why you gotta be from SA to dream of having money enough to buy a farm there? Cool

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Post by SecretFly 26.10.18 13:23

Pot Hale wrote:There’s a good few reports/interviews with James Lowe where he talks about his reasons for leaving NZ rugby, his health, and what he hopes to achieve - not going to make ABs, recurrence of his RA, knowledge that his career could end very suddenly, opportunity to earn good money in the next 5-10 years, that he might why he plays with a smile on his face, wanting to win, etc.  


I think it's just bloody him. No excuses, he's just a bloody chirpy chap, mate.

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Post by Collapse2005 26.10.18 13:23

ebop wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:Richardt Strauss has said he could buy a farm in SA and set up his family for life by playing rugby in Ireland. Why wouldn't he want to do that? More power to him.
Guess it depends on your values. I’ll give you a similar example of Carl Jayman. Think I got the name right. He was on course to be a NZ legend prop, but as it transpired, he’s a no-name that probably bought his NZ farm wherever the heck he said he wanted to buy. Is that guy still playing? Who knows, who cares. His career fizzled out into nothing and he will always be remembered as ‘that’ guy that sold out. Good on him. Enjoy milking those cows like a legend cow milker.

Carl Hayman probably but I'm sure you know that. Like you said it depends on your values. Perhaps being an All Black legend just wasn't that important to him. Its only a sport after all. People in New Zealand put way too much stock in it clearly which probably explains why the woman in the Aaron Smith toilet saga has experienced so much public grief because she was collateral damage in the path of a guy becoming a legend. Sex, lies and scrumtape.

My family is more important to me than my job too.

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Post by ebop 26.10.18 13:30

Collapse2005 wrote:
ebop wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:Richardt Strauss has said he could buy a farm in SA and set up his family for life by playing rugby in Ireland. Why wouldn't he want to do that? More power to him.
Guess it depends on your values. I’ll give you a similar example of Carl Jayman. Think I got the name right. He was on course to be a NZ legend prop, but as it transpired, he’s a no-name that probably bought his NZ farm wherever the heck he said he wanted to buy. Is that guy still playing? Who knows, who cares. His career fizzled out into nothing and he will always be remembered as ‘that’ guy that sold out. Good on him. Enjoy milking those cows like a legend cow milker.

Carl Hayman probably but I'm sure you know that. Like you said it depends on your values. Perhaps being an All Black legend just wasn't that important to him. Its only a sport after all. People in New Zealand put way too much stock in it clearly which probably explains why the woman in the Aaron Smith toilet saga has experienced so much public grief because she was collateral damage in the path of a guy becoming a legend. Sex, lies and scrumtape.

My family is more important to me than my job too.
Headscratch

Ok, good on Richardt Strauss
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Post by Collapse2005 26.10.18 13:35

You hadn't heard?

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/watch-full-interview-woman-in-aaron-smith-sex-scandal-breaks-her-silence-ive-been-called-ho-lady of loose morals-cheat

Smith put so much stock in protecting his legacy he begged her to lie and sign an affidavit for him. Despite all of that it seems to be her who has been the casualty in the eyes of the NZ public rather than Smith. My sense is that New Zealanders are willing to overlook almost anything well established ABs do. In all fairness there is a bit of that everywhere but nowhere more so than in NZ.


Last edited by Collapse2005 on 26.10.18 13:39; edited 1 time in total

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Post by ebop 26.10.18 13:37

Is that the Australian coming out in you Guns? How much Australian do ‘you feel’ given you live there, 1/4? Surely not more.
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Post by SecretFly 26.10.18 13:41

ebop wrote: Is that the Australian coming out in you Guns?

Bubbly Thanks for catching my earlier slant

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Post by ebop 26.10.18 13:48

Yeah, ever since Guns said he was Australian-Irish it all makes perfect sence. And that’s ok, just gotta know the parameters we’re working with.
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Post by Biltong 26.10.18 13:53

SecretFly wrote:
The Oracle wrote:


But if another client offers you 3 months commission but says you can wear what you want.....???

Then he can turn up in a suit....

laughing laughing

I wear what I want anyway.
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Post by Collapse2005 26.10.18 14:06

ebop wrote: Is that the Australian coming out in you Guns? How much Australian do ‘you feel’ given you live there, 1/4? Surely not more.

Where's your sense of Anzac pride?

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Post by rodders 26.10.18 14:10

Pot Hale wrote:There’s a good few reports/interviews with James Lowe where he talks about his reasons for leaving NZ rugby, his health, and what he hopes to achieve - not going to make ABs, recurrence of his RA, knowledge that his career could end very suddenly, opportunity to earn good money in the next 5-10 years, that he might why he plays with a smile on his face, wanting to win, etc.  


A few 6N winners bonus would come in handy then...
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Post by Pot Hale 26.10.18 15:30

rodders wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:There’s a good few reports/interviews with James Lowe where he talks about his reasons for leaving NZ rugby, his health, and what he hopes to achieve - not going to make ABs, recurrence of his RA, knowledge that his career could end very suddenly, opportunity to earn good money in the next 5-10 years, that he might why he plays with a smile on his face, wanting to win, etc.  


A few 6N winners bonus would come in handy then...

He may well do. Or he might return to Super Rugby is what he said also.
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Post by Rugby Fan 26.10.18 16:23

Money is being brought up here as a problem, as if greed is overwhelming the sport, but the hunger for money isn't really being driven by greed, it's driven by survival.

There is far more money as a whole in rugby, largely because of TV deals, but hardly anyone is turning a profit. It's easy to be magnanimous, and occupy the moral high ground, when you are flush with cash. No-one is, however, and so the professional era has seen appallingly selfish behaviour from virtually all parties associated with the game.

Taylorman paints a moving picture of hometown boys playing for hometown teams in New Zealand. I'd draw eveyone's attention to the Mitre 10 final taking place on Saturday at Eden Park, between Canterbury and Auckland. Auckland are so worried about empty seats at the stadium that fans will be allowed in free. Even then, there are fears free entry might not be attractive enough to do more than half-fill the stadium.

Think about that for a minute. Rugby is the national sport; the All Blacks and Super Rugby sides are as strong as they've ever been; Canterbury vs Auckland is one of the oldest, and strongest rivalries in the country, and yet you can't sell tickets to this match.

That's not a problem caused by clubs and unions in the North.

I don't know if it is true, as some claim, that the NZRU has taken grassroots support too much for granted but it's alarming for rugby in general, not just for New Zealand, that the public there seems to have lost interest in going to see key matches. We saw the same in Wellington, when crowds stopped turning out for the sevens. We know New Zealand has a small population, but it has added a million people since the game went professional in 1995.

Again, this is against a backdrop of highly successful teams at national and Super Rugby level. It doesn't make pleasant thinking to consider what might happen to interest in the sport if those teams started losing more.

That's one of the difficulties when you expect the performance of the national side to be the engine for enthusiasm. Not all national sides can be top dogs at the same time. If we have any genuine ambitions for more teams to join the top tier, then it also ought to get harder for everyone.

Almost all successful professional sports around the world are built on a foundation of local support. Many don't even have international competition to drive interest. American Football and Aussie Rules are self-contained. Baseball's World Baseball Classic is lseen as a scheduling inconvenience. Test match rugby league is largely regarded as a bonus, with the main even being NRL and State of Origin.

Rugby Union hasn't yet succeeded in developing a wide enough base. Of course, in amateur days, sometimes the team was a big draw, the centrepiece of the community, and the players local heroes. In many cases, though, certainly in England, the crowds were often quite sparse outside finals and Test matches.

When Grandstand used to show Rugby Union results on TV in the amateur era, you'd see names like Rosslyn Park, Bedford, and the Met Police. Weekend matches would often draw only a handful of spectators - not helped by the fact clubs used to field several teams, all playing at the same time.

As a professional sport, rugby needs loyal supporters turning up for league matches week by week. Ironically, some of the reorganization at local levels, aimed at strengthening national competitiveness, had the initial effect of breaking some of the strongest local loyalties, as fans were asked to shift support to new regions and franchises. A lot was lost, and never really recovered.

Rather than pointing the finger at other unions or clubs, or questioning the the loyalties of players, the best way forward is surely to try and think what we need to do to establish local competitions that can regularlly fill the stands, regardless of whether the national team is doing well or not. The Australian Soccer team has a FIFA rank of 42 but A League matches have an average attendance of 10,000, which is higher than the average managed by the Brumbies and Rebels in the Super Rugby season just finished.

I don't know what the right model is for rugby, and I'm no publicist for the English structure, which seems to stretch resources too thinly. However, unless we make sure we've got sustainable support for matches outside the international sphere, then we won't grow revenues, and we'll likely see a hollowing out.

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Post by The Oracle 26.10.18 20:32

Just read about rumours of Dan Carter to NFL as a kicker. What’s the morals of that?! I’ve got a bit lost with it all.
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Post by Pot Hale 26.10.18 23:09

The Oracle wrote:Just read about rumours of Dan Carter to NFL as a kicker. What’s the morals of that?! I’ve got a bit lost with it all.

That’s called a professional sportsman maximizing his opportunities.

And lest we forget amongst all the hand-wringing, national angst and defensive polemics, New Zealand players are the best at doing that.

Too.

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Post by Exiledinborders 26.10.18 23:41

Rugby Fan wrote:Money is being brought up here as a problem, as if greed is overwhelming the sport, but the hunger for money isn't really being driven by greed, it's driven by survival.

There is far more money as a whole in rugby, largely because of TV deals, but hardly anyone is turning a profit. It's easy to be magnanimous, and occupy the moral high ground, when you are flush with cash. No-one is, however, and so the professional era has seen appallingly selfish behaviour from virtually all parties associated with the game.

Taylorman paints a moving picture of hometown boys playing for hometown teams in New Zealand. I'd draw eveyone's attention to the Mitre 10 final taking place on Saturday at Eden Park, between Canterbury and Auckland. Auckland are so worried about empty seats at the stadium that fans will be allowed in free. Even then, there are fears free entry might not be attractive enough to do more than half-fill the stadium.

Think about that for a minute. Rugby is the national sport; the All Blacks and Super Rugby sides are as strong as they've ever been; Canterbury vs Auckland is one of the oldest, and strongest rivalries in the country, and yet you can't sell tickets to this match.

That's not a problem caused by clubs and unions in the North.

I don't know if it is true, as some claim, that the NZRU has taken grassroots support too much for granted but it's alarming for rugby in general, not just for New Zealand, that the public there seems to have lost interest in going to see key matches. We saw the same in Wellington, when crowds stopped turning out for the sevens. We know New Zealand has a small population, but it has added a million people since the game went professional in 1995.

Again, this is against a backdrop of highly successful teams at national and Super Rugby level. It doesn't make pleasant thinking to consider what might happen to interest in the sport if those teams started losing more.

That's one of the difficulties when you expect the performance of the national side to be the engine for enthusiasm. Not all national sides can be top dogs at the same time. If we have any genuine ambitions for more teams to join the top tier, then it also ought to get harder for everyone.

Almost all successful professional sports around the world are built on a foundation of local support. Many don't even have international competition to drive interest. American Football and Aussie Rules are self-contained. Baseball's World Baseball Classic is lseen as a scheduling inconvenience. Test match rugby league is largely regarded as a bonus, with the main even being NRL and State of Origin.

Rugby Union hasn't yet succeeded in developing a wide enough base. Of course, in amateur days, sometimes the team was a big draw, the centrepiece of the community, and the players local heroes. In many cases, though, certainly in England, the crowds were often quite sparse outside finals and Test matches.

When Grandstand used to show Rugby Union results on TV in the amateur era, you'd see names like Rosslyn Park, Bedford, and the Met Police. Weekend matches would often draw only a handful of spectators - not helped by the fact clubs used to field several teams, all playing at the same time.

As a professional sport, rugby needs loyal supporters turning up for league matches week by week. Ironically, some of the reorganization at local levels, aimed at strengthening national competitiveness, had the initial effect of breaking some of the strongest local loyalties, as fans were asked to shift support to new regions and franchises. A lot was lost, and never really recovered.

Rather than pointing the finger at other unions or clubs, or questioning the the loyalties of players, the best way forward is surely to try and think what we need to do to establish local competitions that can regularlly fill the stands, regardless of whether the national team is doing well or not. The Australian Soccer team has a FIFA rank of 42 but A League matches have an average attendance of 10,000, which is higher than the average managed by the Brumbies and Rebels in the Super Rugby season just finished.

I don't know what the right model is for rugby, and I'm no publicist for the English structure, which seems to stretch resources too thinly. However, unless we make sure we've got sustainable support for matches outside the international sphere, then we won't grow revenues, and we'll likely see a hollowing out.
There is a lot of truth in what you write.

There is no going back to amateur days. In the professional era the key has to be to create a league that has support week in week out. That means top players playing for their clubs on a regular basis. In turn to be sustainable and prevent player overload that means far less internationals and probably less European games too.

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Post by Taylorman 26.10.18 23:59

Collapse2005 wrote:You hadn't heard?

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/watch-full-interview-woman-in-aaron-smith-sex-scandal-breaks-her-silence-ive-been-called-ho-lady of loose morals-cheat

Smith put so much stock in protecting his legacy he begged her to lie and sign an affidavit for him. Despite all of that it seems to be her who has been the casualty in the eyes of the NZ public rather than Smith. My sense is that New Zealanders are willing to overlook almost anything well established ABs do. In all fairness there is a bit of that everywhere but nowhere more so than in NZ.

He banged her in a toilet. So what? He was pyblicly shamed. What can be worse. The President of the USAs got nothing on Aaron. Whos prepared to overlook what? Guns you keep bringing in one off anecdotes that only serve to consistently confirm your absolute jealousy of the ABs. Geez theyve got one over you. Big time. Get over it chump.

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Post by Taylorman 27.10.18 0:05

The Oracle wrote:Just read about rumours of Dan Carter to NFL as a kicker. What’s the morals of that?! I’ve got a bit lost with it all.

Well hes already played in a French dead end. Morals went years ago. Its all about self and family remember.

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Post by Taylorman 27.10.18 0:13

carpet baboon wrote:You seem to be missing a very simple thing. Which is more important rugby or family?
Isn't it our moral duty to do what's best for our family.
Rugby is entertainment for us. For them it's a job.
Who are we to sit about judging them on there choices because we want them to show "loyalty" for our own selfish enjoyment.

Piutau has spoken about how his choice was what was best for his family, who are we to say that's wrong?

Careers can be cut short in a second. How many retirements bin the last 12 months?

And yet some of you are sitting around hoping it all falls apart because someone has made a choice about what's best for them without thinking about your feelings? Your upset that they won't entertain you the way you want them to

Dreams are wonderful, but life's a bit more complicated.

I have never missed that point. I have said as a fan and rugby purist that is the issue. Im all for our players making millions off your weaknesses in this game. My grind is that they can do it. As a fan I have the right to watch our players grow and thrive within the rugby environment that we created.

Every fan does. And as fans we accept the fact that born and bred kiwis are more valuable overseas and need to put a roof over their heads.

But that doesnt negate my right, as a paying, watching fan, to have my own view.

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Post by Exiledinborders 27.10.18 1:09

Taylorman wrote:
carpet baboon wrote:You seem to be missing a very simple thing. Which is more important rugby or family?
Isn't it our moral duty to do what's best for our family.
Rugby is entertainment for us. For them it's a job.
Who are we to sit about judging them on there choices because we want them to show "loyalty" for our own selfish enjoyment.

Piutau has spoken about how his choice was what was best for his family, who are we to say that's wrong?

Careers can be cut short in a second. How many retirements bin the last 12 months?

And yet some of you are sitting around hoping it all falls apart because someone has made a choice about what's best for them without thinking about your feelings? Your upset that they won't entertain you the way you want them to

Dreams are wonderful, but life's a bit more complicated.

I have never missed that point. I have said as a fan and rugby purist that is the issue. Im all for our players making millions off your weaknesses in this game. My grind is that they can do it. As a fan I have the right to watch our players grow and thrive within the rugby environment that we created.

Every fan does. And as fans we accept the fact that born and bred kiwis are more valuable overseas and need to put a roof over their heads.

But that doesnt negate my right, as a paying, watching fan, to have my own view.
You have the right to your view and to express it. However I cannot see how you have the "right to watch our players grow and thrive within the rugby environment that we created". Players have the right to play or not play and to play for whomever they wish. When it comes to where they play you have no rights whatsoever and nor should you in a free society.

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Post by Taylorman 27.10.18 2:07

Exiledinborders wrote:
Taylorman wrote:
carpet baboon wrote:You seem to be missing a very simple thing. Which is more important rugby or family?
Isn't it our moral duty to do what's best for our family.
Rugby is entertainment for us. For them it's a job.
Who are we to sit about judging them on there choices because we want them to show "loyalty" for our own selfish enjoyment.

Piutau has spoken about how his choice was what was best for his family, who are we to say that's wrong?

Careers can be cut short in a second. How many retirements bin the last 12 months?

And yet some of you are sitting around hoping it all falls apart because someone has made a choice about what's best for them without thinking about your feelings? Your upset that they won't entertain you the way you want them to

Dreams are wonderful, but life's a bit more complicated.

I have never missed that point. I have said as a fan and rugby purist that is the issue. Im all for our players making millions off your weaknesses in this game. My grind is that they can do it. As a fan I have the right to watch our players grow and thrive within the rugby environment that we created.

Every fan does. And as fans we accept the fact that born and bred kiwis are more valuable overseas and need to put a roof over their heads.

But that doesnt negate my right, as a paying, watching fan, to have my own view.
You have the right to your view and to express it. However I cannot see how you have the "right to watch our players grow and thrive within the rugby environment that we created".  Players have the right to play or not play and to play for whomever they wish. When it comes to where they play you have no rights whatsoever and nor should you in a free society.

Moot point. I have my rights. They have theirs. Theyre mutually exclusive. Doesnt mean either of us gets what we want. They have a right to play where they think theyre good enough, to earn what they think they can earn. Doesnt mean theyll get it either. You think players have a right to play for whomever they wish? Dream on. Lowe wished for years to play for the ABs. Didnt happen did it.

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Post by Taylorman 27.10.18 5:03

Cmoooooooon Auckland! thumbsup

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Post by Taylorman 27.10.18 7:25

The phoenix has risen again. Blues next year.
Alatini to Henry...’Bro, I need help’...

‘When do I start...’

thumbsup

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Post by The Oracle 27.10.18 8:59

Taylorman wrote:Cmoooooooon Auckland! thumbsup

Like a Baa Baas side, that Auckland one! Kiwis, Ozzies, Canadians, Americans, Japanese. Strewth!
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Post by Collapse2005 27.10.18 9:25

Taylorman wrote:
The Oracle wrote:Just read about rumours of Dan Carter to NFL as a kicker. What’s the morals of that?! I’ve got a bit lost with it all.

Well hes already played in a French dead end. Morals went years ago. Its all about self and family remember.

Id say you would cash in your bum life in a heartbeat if France came knocking. Morals my hole

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Post by Taylorman 27.10.18 9:41

Ha ha, losers. Auckland back on top and that spells doom for you all. 32-13 i japan is it? Ireland do that this year? Nope.

We are coming guns. Get ready

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Post by Taylorman 27.10.18 9:43

Oh 32-20. Cool

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Post by ebop 27.10.18 9:45

A convincing win for the ABs against Australia. Did you watch the game Guns?
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Post by Taylorman 27.10.18 9:45

The Oracle wrote:
Taylorman wrote:Cmoooooooon Auckland! thumbsup

Like a Baa Baas side, that Auckland one! Kiwis, Ozzies, Canadians, Americans, Japanese. Strewth!

Would you like me to compare that to exeter, leinster etc. salaries buys. Ok i will

Baabaas. Fool

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Post by The Oracle 27.10.18 9:51

Taylorman wrote:
The Oracle wrote:
Taylorman wrote:Cmoooooooon Auckland! thumbsup

Like a Baa Baas side, that Auckland one! Kiwis, Ozzies, Canadians, Americans, Japanese. Strewth!

Would you like me to compare that to exeter, leinster etc. salaries buys. Ok i will

Baabaas. Fool

No need to compare, but it would be nice if you were a little less ‘preachy’ when it’s happening on your own doorstep too. thumbsup
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Post by Taylorman 27.10.18 10:22

The Oracle wrote:
Taylorman wrote:
The Oracle wrote:
Taylorman wrote:Cmoooooooon Auckland! thumbsup

Like a Baa Baas side, that Auckland one! Kiwis, Ozzies, Canadians, Americans, Japanese. Strewth!

Would you like me to compare that to exeter, leinster etc. salaries buys. Ok i will

Baabaas. Fool

No need to compare, but it would be nice if you were a little less ‘preachy’ when it’s happening on your own doorstep too.  thumbsup

good point, if you were correct. This is semi pro rugby. We dont have Crudens and Lowes and Carters and Nonus in mitre 10 as you do. Anyway, looks like the ABs are on a mission. Schmidt can support his side once again. thumbsup

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Post by Engine#4 27.10.18 10:31

Why can't NZ franchises match Irish/Scottish/Welsh salaries? SA and Aus are different cases but rugby is the national sport in NZ and they have a larger tv audience than a Celtic nation. Yet they can't organise themselves to compete financially with an Irish team?


Last edited by Engine#4 on 27.10.18 10:35; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Collapse2005 27.10.18 10:34

ebop wrote:A convincing win for the ABs against Australia. Did you watch the game Guns?

Yes I did. Australia need to stop trying to score a try off every phase. A bit more game control.

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Post by Taylorman 27.10.18 10:37

Engine#4 wrote:Why can't NZ franchises match Irish/Scottish/Welsh salaries?

Because we dont have as many fat arses on seats. What is this? Dumb day?

England: 55 million
Wales 3 million
Scotland 4 million
Ireland 5 million

NZ: 4 million.

Youre suggesting no one takes a train ride across the border to watch a match? No english fans travel to Murrayfield?


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Post by ebop 27.10.18 10:43

NZ SR rugby players are paid very well relative to the average kiwi. Our top ABs will be on $1 million plus. I imagine a lot of it is to do with differences in currency. The NZD is worth 0.5 GBP and around 0.6 EUR so NZ players can double their money in Europe if they aren’t frivolous.
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Post by ebop 27.10.18 10:49

How many European rugby clubs make money? I read that one or two English clubs do which is pretty shocking. That’s not very sustainable. So you guys say we should ‘just pay our SH players more’ like the money losing NH clubs. Yeah, ok, great example of managing a viable and sustainable business that is.
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