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Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

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munkian
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Post by Cyril Sat 20 Oct 2018, 8:56 pm

First topic message reminder :

Part 2

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Post by The Great Aukster Sat 12 Jan 2019, 6:39 am

The maul at the start of the season was terrible - as bad as it's been for a long time. Now it's passable, that improvement has to be chalked up to McFarland who seems to have had an influence there.
The lineout was especially bad in the first three months of the season but that was probably down to missing Rory and the lack of jumping options.
The Ulster attack has been mostly toothless, and the reason why Ulster lie below the teams above them is bonus points.

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Post by clivemcl Sat 12 Jan 2019, 7:59 am

On another note, BT Sports are a joke in terms of catch up service. Was out last night and never recorded but wanted to catch up on the Munster game. No chance. But with Premier Sports you can watch a 7.30pm match later that night by like 11pm.
Oh and when you open the app the first thing you might see is a bunch of little short videos with interviews or analysis, many of the titles giving away the results Rolling Eyes

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Post by geoff999rugby Sat 12 Jan 2019, 10:47 am

Agree not very good but why not just record ?

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Post by clivemcl Sat 12 Jan 2019, 10:50 am

Yea totally forgot to! But yea while trying to locate the full match I got shown an array of short videos in each try, match highlights etc all with score in title. Ah well, I’m planning not to move from sofa for Leinster and Ulster games, and I’ll soon get over it!

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Post by Pot Hale Sat 12 Jan 2019, 5:10 pm

Brilliant result for the boys - Well done Ulster.
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Post by BigGee Sat 12 Jan 2019, 5:12 pm

What a great game, really well done Ulster on dogging that out, I thought it was slipping away with 10 to go.

Gutsy old win!

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Post by clivemcl Sat 12 Jan 2019, 5:35 pm

Just when I worried about subbing off key players, it was players like Balacoune, Lowry, Herring putting in important hits. Jordon Murphy really showed his pedigree tonight along with, of course, best, Coetzee, Addison and Stockdale.

Still feel we are badly lacking at 10 I have to say. What would I give for Jackson slotting back into that back line!

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Post by marty2086 Sat 12 Jan 2019, 6:52 pm

Baffled by the whole kicking thing, Burns taking kick offs but anything else he was too injured to do? Headscratch

I think Lowry took the ball to the line as many times as Burns in a fraction of the time. Did he also dump tackle Nakarawa?

Thought Shanahan really put himself about today, him trying to pick a fight with Lauret was great

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Post by carpet baboon Sat 12 Jan 2019, 9:19 pm

What a game.

Where's the best place to get match stats?

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Post by Don Alfonso Sun 13 Jan 2019, 12:53 pm

Well, Clive - you were saying something about Leinster youngsters being able to come along and slot in when needed...

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Post by clivemcl Sun 13 Jan 2019, 1:11 pm

You surely aren’t comparing my complaints about the quality of our b/c team to the team of yesterday are you?

Balacoune did well, Shanners very well by his standards, and I want to se Lowry more at 10.

In other news it would appear Zebo received some unsavoury abuse from at least one fan. Seems to be suggested it was racial in nature.

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Post by Pete330v2 Sun 13 Jan 2019, 2:09 pm

"Did he also dump tackle Nakarawa? "

Yes he did in complete defiance of the laws of physics. Shanahan also picking a fight with Laurent was pure gold. That's the 'fight for every inch' attitude.

I do hope Zebo's ears are recieving him, booing can be ignored, racist abuse can't.

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Post by clivemcl Sun 13 Jan 2019, 2:50 pm

https://twitter.com/patmccarry/status/1084135673672724480

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Post by marty2086 Sun 13 Jan 2019, 4:04 pm

Pete330v2 wrote:
I do hope Zebo's ears are recieving him, booing can be ignored, racist abuse can't.

Zebo came in for plenty of abuse, there were two idiots I heard who even after he went off were shouting abuse at him.

One of them, who Im pretty sure was a relative of one of the Ulster players, was calling him fat, Poopie and shouting that he was scared of Stockdale

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Post by clivemcl Sun 13 Jan 2019, 4:11 pm

I know some will say I’m too weak or sensitive, but regardless of racial slurs, I don’t particularly enjoy what is effectively bullying under the guise of passionate support. Yea, these guys are playing in front of crowds, they are earning good money, but they are still human.
A lot us said from the safety of a crowd, and with the comfort of knowing the ‘victim’ can’t retort or retaliate.

Zebo apologised to Lowry at the time and again publicly on twitter. Any chance we could be mature enough to accept a grown mans apology and not be childish bullies?

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Post by Cyril Sun 13 Jan 2019, 5:27 pm

Very disappointing, if not surprising, from some Ulster fans. This needs sorting out.

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Post by geoff999rugby Sun 13 Jan 2019, 5:30 pm

Lets see or hear facts first before jumping to conclusions

I have been going to Ravenhill for over 20 years and NEVER heard a racist comment
Zebo was booed, he was called fat but other than that - pure speculation

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Post by clivemcl Sun 13 Jan 2019, 5:30 pm

How would you suggest? We don’t know the identity of the single individual in order to get it sorted.

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Post by clivemcl Sun 13 Jan 2019, 5:31 pm

I don’t like that Ulster fans would call people fat either by the way. Sense when is racism shocking but fat shaming totally acceptable?

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Post by marty2086 Sun 13 Jan 2019, 5:36 pm

Gavin Cummiskey reporting that Racing haven't filed a complaint but EPCR have spoken to both clubs

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Post by Cyril Sun 13 Jan 2019, 6:02 pm

Zebo seems to think he heard something. You would hope that fans close to those who says it would report them.

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Post by clivemcl Sun 13 Jan 2019, 6:13 pm

Yea, if they knew who he was or his name. It’s a pity no stewards were alerted that we know of.

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Post by marty2086 Sun 13 Jan 2019, 6:47 pm

clivemcl wrote:Yea, if they knew who he was or his name. It’s a pity no stewards were alerted that we know of.

What should they have been alerted to though?

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Post by clivemcl Sun 13 Jan 2019, 6:56 pm

We don’t really know since Zebo never said. But according to the supporter who messaged him it was ‘disgusting and uncalled for’.
I’d probably only have taken action myself if it were racial, but I don’t know if that was the case.

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Post by Pot Hale Sun 13 Jan 2019, 6:59 pm

marty2086 wrote:
clivemcl wrote:Yea, if they knew who he was or his name. It’s a pity no stewards were alerted that we know of.

What should they have been alerted to though?

Verbally abusing a player - no need for it and it should be called out - every time.
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Post by geoff999rugby Sun 13 Jan 2019, 7:50 pm

clivemcl wrote:I don’t like that Ulster fans would call people fat either by the way. Sense when is racism shocking but fat shaming totally acceptable?

To be honest Yes - a bit of a wind up and humour is perfectly acceptable.
We are not all snowflakes

Racism is completely unacceptable - there is a clear difference for all sorts of cultural and historical reasons
By the way Zebo has not claimed racism but posted a deliberately ambiguous post on social media.
If he is referring to being called fat and posted what he did he is out of order because he knows perfectly well how it will be interpreted.
The fact it has not been the subject of any official complaint from him or Racing leads mne to the conclusion that is probably the case, in which case shame on him.

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Post by clivemcl Sun 13 Jan 2019, 8:02 pm

Glad to know some people are not snowflakes. Congrats to them thumbsup

But this is the players job. This is his workplace. Nobody should be subjected to abuse. And others do not decide what is harmless or not.

Bullying is intolerable. Whether the person is emotionally fragile or rock solid is irrelevant.

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Post by marty2086 Sun 13 Jan 2019, 9:08 pm

Pot Hale wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
clivemcl wrote:Yea, if they knew who he was or his name. It’s a pity no stewards were alerted that we know of.

What should they have been alerted to though?

Verbally abusing a player - no need for it and it should be called out - every time.  

And wheres that line then? A player cheats or hits a player with a cheap shot calling them names is wrong?

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Post by clivemcl Sun 13 Jan 2019, 10:42 pm

I’d only alert a steward if it was anything that would be a crime, ie a hate crime.

I don’t believe a lot of abuse to be criminal, but probably poor taste and unnecessary.

Is the Django reference in his tweet the reason a racial slur is being suggested. The reference is s bit vague and not exactly concrete.

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Post by Geen sport voor watjes Mon 14 Jan 2019, 12:19 am

geoff999rugby wrote:
clivemcl wrote:I don’t like that Ulster fans would call people fat either by the way. Sense when is racism shocking but fat shaming totally acceptable?

To be honest Yes - a bit of a wind up and humour is perfectly acceptable.
We are not all snowflakes

Racism is completely unacceptable - there is a clear difference for all sorts of cultural and historical reasons
By the way Zebo has not claimed racism but posted a deliberately ambiguous post on social media.
If he is referring to being called fat and posted what he did he is out of order because he knows perfectly well how it will be interpreted.
The fact it has not been the subject of any official complaint from him or Racing leads mne to the conclusion that is probably the case, in which case shame on him.

Go read the full tweet from him before making up some excuse and turning it back on zebo. I think being called fat is something that wouldn’t actually worry him given he would probably have experienced that from his own supporters in cork and limerick.

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Post by marty2086 Mon 14 Jan 2019, 6:53 am

Geen sport voor watjes wrote:
Go read the full tweet from him before making up some excuse and turning it back on zebo. I think being called fat is something that wouldn’t actually worry him given he would probably have experienced that from his own supporters in cork and limerick.

Maybe instead of telling people to reread something maybe you should explain how what he has written isn't ambiguous?


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Post by Sin é Mon 14 Jan 2019, 11:11 am

Also I hope my ears deceived me with some comments directed my way from the crowd. #NotOn. Django wins in the end.”

Django (after the character in the Quentin Tarintino movie - Django Unchained) is/was a Zeebs' nickname (presumably because he is a fairly cool character and the movie was very popular a few years ago). The movie was about Django who started out as a slave and managed to overcome a lot of difficulties and ended up walking off into the sunset having come out on top. Here is a trailer of the movie. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUdM9vrCbow
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Post by Standulstermen Mon 14 Jan 2019, 11:55 am

In fairness to Geoff i've been going for 15 odd years now and have never heard anything remotely dodgy. I thought the atmosphere on Saturday was fairly jovial and it only got a bit tense at the very end when Zebo was off. Even the booing seemed in fairly good humour and In fairness zebo strikes me as the sort of character that would take that with a smile.
What I would also say is that in a crowd of 16000 odd people there are always going to be some idiots, especially with booze about. hopefully he either misheard or if it was accurate it was (or can be) dealt with.

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Post by marty2086 Mon 14 Jan 2019, 12:27 pm

I missed the start of the games on BT yesterday but heard the Craig Doyle claimed to have heard what was said and wasn't nice or broadcastable, anyone see or hear that?

Some of the stuff towards Zebo was pantomime style stuff, some though was mean spirited at best and just not needed. I know where I was there was plenty of eye rolling at what was being said and in hindsight I wish I'd called the idiots on it

I've seen people use the matter to just make stuff up, apparently Ulster have form for this as Topsy Ojo was racially abused even though I can never remember him playing against Ulster and Trevor Brennan was on the end of sectarian abuse.. I mean it's not like that was has been proving in court to be a lie Rolling Eyes

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Post by Standulstermen Mon 14 Jan 2019, 3:35 pm

The incident I believe you are referring to with Ojo was actually Delon Armitage when he was at LI. He made a complaint against Matt McCullough I believe as he mistook the term 'spide' for 'spade'. There was an investigation at the time and McCullough was cleared iirc. The Brennan thing was proven in court you're right and I think numerous papers had to pay out in the end.


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Post by marty2086 Mon 14 Jan 2019, 4:13 pm

I'd forgotten about the Armitage incident, never knew the finer points of it but McCullough was indeed cleared

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2007/jan/25/rugbyunion.ulsterrugby

Anyone else get n email from Ulster asking for information?

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Post by Pete330v2 Mon 14 Jan 2019, 4:17 pm

Standulstermen wrote:The incident I believe you are referring to with Ojo was actually Delon Armitage when he was at LI. He made a complaint against Matt McCullough I believe as he mistook the term 'spide' for 'spade'. There was an investigation at the time and McCullough was cleared iirc. The Brennan thing was proven in court you're right and I think numerous papers had to pay out in the end.


I remember the Armitage incident well, the fact that the word 'Spide' sounds exactly like the English pronunciation of 'Spade' didn't help. It was entirely lost on sections of the rugby media who immediately branded Ulster Rugby as a racist institution. They just couldn't help themselves.

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Post by Pete330v2 Mon 14 Jan 2019, 4:25 pm

Via Twitter:
"Ulster Rugby's head coach Dan McFarland has appealed for information from fans who were at the Kingspan Stadium in Belfast on Saturday, amid suggestions that Racing 92 winger Simon Zebo may have been racially abused"

Now that it seems there actually was racist abuse I do hope the culprits are identified to Ulster Rugby. Maybe they'll even hand themselves in if they've any guts at all.

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Post by Don Alfonso Mon 14 Jan 2019, 5:03 pm

I hope the guilty parties make a contrite, fulsome apology to Zebo, Racing 92 and Ulster, and are then banned for life. Vile scumbags we can do without.

In other news, possibly without both Cooney and Burns for Leicester. McPhillips or Lowry?

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Post by Standulstermen Mon 14 Jan 2019, 5:15 pm

I didnt get an email from Ulster but I guess they can tell where you are if you are an ST holder. It'll more than likely be a blow in I would hope. Whatever was said must have been on the west terrace as that was the side of the ground he played in. Im in the east terrace which had a great atmosphere and thats even without a drink in my hand!


Next week go with Lowry then. He's earned it and McPhillips was crocked for the Racing game anyway

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Post by carpet baboon Mon 14 Jan 2019, 5:20 pm

Didn't Craig Doyle said that the culprit was delt with immediately by fellow spectators? Or did I miss hear that bit. Any way find the moron and ban him.

And for me Don start Lowery

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Post by marty2086 Mon 14 Jan 2019, 6:35 pm

Don Alfonso wrote:In other news, possibly without both Cooney and Burns for Leicester. McPhillips or Lowry?

Im baffled as to why Burns stayed on so long, not only was it detrimental to the performance it risked him making his injury worse

Baloucoune was limping towards the end of the game too, surely a guy with a dodgy leg is a risk defensively?

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Post by Brendan Mon 14 Jan 2019, 6:55 pm

Who do Ulster want in the quarters assuming they come second.  I assuming all the second place teams are hoping Edinburgh sneak into the top three though unlikely.

Sarries, Racing and Leinster away aren't great but I assume Ulster on their day have the ability to win if they get the bounce of the ball.

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Post by Standulstermen Mon 14 Jan 2019, 8:11 pm

Part of me would like a wee trip down to Dublin or limerick. Don’t expect to win any QF but getting there would be an achievement

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Post by Brendan Mon 14 Jan 2019, 11:38 pm

Standulstermen wrote:Part of me would like a wee trip down to Dublin or limerick. Don’t expect to win any QF but getting there would be an achievement

I think Munster will be lucky to get a home Quarter final. Saying that last time we played Ulster in the quarters it didn't end well. That was also the year Edinburgh did well so maybe history repeats itself

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Post by marty2086 Tue 15 Jan 2019, 9:03 am

Standulstermen wrote:Part of me would like a wee trip down to Dublin or limerick. Don’t expect to win any QF but getting there would be an achievement

What do you guys think about the decision to take the three points instead of going to the corner on Saturday?

Is it a foregone conclusion we are finishing second or should we have went for the bonus point and denied Racing a losing bonus point and turned up the pressure on them a bit for this weekend?

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Post by rodders Tue 15 Jan 2019, 10:03 am

Great performance at the weekend. We definitely got a few hometown decisions but to hold out Racing was a tremendous effort.

Best was everywhere for 60 odd minutes, Shanahan had his best game yet and Stockdale is unplayable at the minute.

Disappointing this stuff about Zebo but there is more and more a Windsor Park-esque atmosphere creeping into Ravenhill lately so it isn't surprising to hear unfortunately.

That said Zebo should have reported through the proper channels, if I was being cynical I'd say he's trying detract from being badly outshone by Stockdale.
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Post by Don Alfonso Tue 15 Jan 2019, 12:24 pm

https://www.secondcaptains.com/2019/01/14/episode-1367-leinster-munster-and-ulster-now-in-prime-position-to-make-euro-cup-quarters-murrays-maudlin-goodbye-snoop-dogg-on-ice-hockey/

Some interesting stuff about Ulster, with Mattie Williams holding forth. Talking about Ulster having "five-week vision" i.e no planning for the future, very poor administration, internal politics. Says he has heard this has changed.

Says reaching a QF will be an invaluable, tangible thing for the team, and the draws attention to Stockdale's comment (who was, in turn, just highlighting what yours truly pointed out last week) that the vast majority of the team have never played knock-our rugby.

French rugby journo says that they understand that it was one fan shouting something racist and that the supporters around him told him to shut the F*ck up.

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Post by The Great Aukster Tue 15 Jan 2019, 1:54 pm

marty2086 wrote:
Standulstermen wrote:Part of me would like a wee trip down to Dublin or limerick. Don’t expect to win any QF but getting there would be an achievement

What do you guys think about the decision to take the three points instead of going to the corner on Saturday?

Is it a foregone conclusion we are finishing second or should we have went for the bonus point and denied Racing a losing bonus point and turned up the pressure on them a bit for this weekend?

Only saw the second half, but Ulster were lucky to win with 1 second seeming like 60 at the end. The Racing players were rattled (especially Russell) and didn't exert the superiority they normally show. Every point contributed to lowering the Racing morale so going for the corner would have been a very low percentage play (especially with Herring looking off). Arguably if Addison had missed Racing would have been forced to take a contestable drop on their 22 anyway but at least he would still have used up enough time to keep them out of range.
Even if Ulster had got the fourth try they would still need to beat Tigers away and their luck will not hold indefinitely, so going for goal was 100% the right play.

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Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2  - Page 12 Empty Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

Post by rodders Tue 15 Jan 2019, 2:43 pm

marty2086 wrote:
Standulstermen wrote:Part of me would like a wee trip down to Dublin or limerick. Don’t expect to win any QF but getting there would be an achievement

What do you guys think about the decision to take the three points instead of going to the corner on Saturday?

Is it a foregone conclusion we are finishing second or should we have went for the bonus point and denied Racing a losing bonus point and turned up the pressure on them a bit for this weekend?

Yes I agree with Aukster, Racing looked the more dangerous side for most of the game so better to get the ball of the pitch and take the 4 pts, than risk turning the ball over with a one score lead.

If we lose next week and miss out on a QF by a point we might regret it but I think it was a good call.
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