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F1 2019 season

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Post by Nathaniel Jacobs on Mon 07 Jan 2019, 10:36 am

First topic message reminder :

Felt like a new season deserves a new thread...

It's reported in Italy that Maurizio Arrivabene has been fired. His strained relationship with Ferrari's prized asset Sebastian Vettel and cost him his job. Arrivabene got one last dig at Vettel though by replacing Raikkonen with LeClerc.

Mattia Binotto will be confirmed as new team boss

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Post by Nathaniel Jacobs on Sun 29 Sep 2019, 6:15 pm

Two weeks running Vettel showed he's quicker in the race than LeClerc and on both occasions LeClerc acted like a clown. LeClerc didn't give Vettel any help passing Hamilton, watch the start Vettel was passed before they reached the straight - he passed Hamilton on the kink. Vettel was on average 0.3 quicker on every lap. Ferrari embarrassed themselves by deciding a decent qualifying lap should supersede superior race pace. It's like the inmates are running the asylum. Qualifying is for show, racing brings home the bacon. As much as Hamilton didn't deserve the win, neither did LeClerc. 

Had Vettel not broken down he would repassed LeClerc as he was much quicker. 

Either LeClerc improves his race pace or he hopes that Ferrari screw over his teammate.

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Post by dyrewolfe on Sun 29 Sep 2019, 7:37 pm

Just John wrote:Mercedes 1-2 in Russia. Lucked in to the result, but that’s sport. A worry for Ferrari in the reliability department, and Ferrari fighting themselves, likely to cost themselves going forward. Both WDC & WCC both in the bag for Mercedes now.

While luck certainly played a part, as far as the Safety Cars were concerned, I think you also have to give some credit to Mercedes' strategists, from quali and starting on mediums, to the timing of their stops.

Must admit I had forgotten how good Mercedes can be on strategy, when they don't have the performance to start at the front.

Sure Ferrari shot themselves in the foot by pitting Leclerc that last time, costing him track position, but I'm guessing they were counting on Mercedes struggling on their tyres towards the end...and tbh I'm surprised he wasn't able to get past Bottas.

I think Charles will think twice before agreeing to help a team mate in future...though from what I saw Vettel just got a really good start. Best thing really is not to have any team orders like that at the start and just let the drivers do their thing. It only causes bad blood later if/when they decide they quite like being in front.

Mind you, if anything would make you believe in karma, it has to be when Vettel retired with MGU-K failure.


Great result for Red Bull with Verstappen & Albon 4th and 5th (Alex redeeming himself very well after his crash in quali). Both McLarens in the points again, helping consolidate their 4th place in the constructors' standings.
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Post by Nathaniel Jacobs on Sun 29 Sep 2019, 9:45 pm

^^^ look at this imbecile Laugh literally sounds like the Andrew Benson of 606v2. Unable to grasp the concept of racing.

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Post by dummy_half on Sun 29 Sep 2019, 11:53 pm

The VSC and then Safety Car spoiled what would have been an intriguing end to the race - Lewis did a great job in the opening stint to keep Leclerc to about 3 seconds and Vettel never more than 7 s in front. If Bottas could have held up the Ferraris after their stops, Lewis on relatively fresh soft tyres later on would have been coming back at them - would have been like a GP2 race with runners on the opposing strategies.

Ferrari really should have pitted Vettel 2 or 3 laps sooner and let him race for the win, rather than engineer a false situation where he ended up behind both Leclerc and Bottas

Ferrari were wrong to make their team order, and Seb was right t0 ignore it as he had pace that Leclerc didn't in the first few laps and with Hamilton only a couple of seconds further down the road. Letting Leclerc past would have put Vettel too close to DRS range from Lewis.

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Post by Born Slippy on Sun 29 Sep 2019, 11:59 pm

GSC wrote:be queuing up to criticise Ferrari but not entirely sure they did much wrong.

I don’t think they did much wrong. Not much a team can do when their number 2 driver goes rogue. Think they managed it skilfully by arranging the undercut. Hopefully they’ll keep better control over him for the rest of the season though.

After the VSC, they had to take the risk of pitting LeClerc. Didn’t work out but it was the right call.

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Post by No name Bertie on Mon 30 Sep 2019, 5:00 am

Strategically Ferrari shot themselves in the foot in this race. Leclerc either had the option of giving Lewis Hamilton the tow or Sebastian Vettel. Strategically he gave Vettel the tow. The only thing Leclerc did was allow Vettel to pass, rather than block him - which would have lost time for the both of them. It was then clear that in the first stint Vettel was faster than Leclerc - he pulled away from Leclerc. Leclerc wanted Vettel to slow down so that he could pass him in the first stint - that would have been ridiculous. Instead they did the ridiculous thing of leaving Vettel out too long on degrading soft tyres to ensure Leclerc got the undercut - but the effect was the same in that Ferrari purposely wanted Vettel to lose time in his first stint - all that distance he had built up was lost.

In the end because of Vettels engine failure and the safety cars - the Mercedes got the undercut to Ferrari. So in the end it didn't "matter". Except in future Ferrari might need to reconsider the way they handle their two drivers. In the recent post summer break races, however, Ferrari have been on top of their game and it has been Mercedes that have been making mistakes. Although it is clear now that the Ferraris have the best engine and the best car.

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Post by GSC on Mon 30 Sep 2019, 9:21 am

think if I can guess at a reasoned order for events.

Ferrari agreed overnight a strategy for getting Vettel ahead of Hamilton at T1. Part of this was if Vettel gets a run on LeClerc, LeClerc wont fight the overtake and cost them time to Hamilton. In exchange for LeClerc not fighting the move.

However with  Vettels launch, he likely would've been leading regardless into T1, and with the close proximity to Hamilton, a swap at that point wouldve needlessly brought Merc into the game.

So Vettel upped the pace to gap Hamilton, LeClerc didnt answer.

So Ferrari had LeClerc who felt he was entitled to the position because he didnt fight the move into T1, and Vettel who felt he wouldve led anyway and didnt want to swap positions within range of Hamilton.

It's a mess really, the clever thing wouldve just been to agree LeClerc gets the undercut and move on.
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Post by dyrewolfe on Mon 30 Sep 2019, 1:07 pm

dummy_half wrote:The VSC and then Safety Car spoiled what would have been an intriguing end to the race - Lewis did a great job in the opening stint to keep Leclerc to about 3 seconds and Vettel never more than 7 s in front. If Bottas could have held up the Ferraris after their stops, Lewis on relatively fresh soft tyres later on would have been coming back at them - would have been like a GP2 race with runners on the opposing strategies.

[1] Ferrari really should have pitted Vettel 2 or 3 laps sooner and let him race for the win, rather than engineer a false situation where he ended up behind both Leclerc and Bottas

[2]Ferrari were wrong to make their team order, and Seb was right t0 ignore it as he had pace that Leclerc didn't in the first few laps and with Hamilton only a couple of seconds further down the road. Letting Leclerc past would have put Vettel too close to DRS range from Lewis.


[1] Punishment for ignoring team instructions REPEATEDLY. Doesn't matter whether you regard yourself as #1 or not (and based on performances, he really isn't). You ignore the team at your peril. Vettel made them look like idiots very publicly by blatantly ignoring their orders, so its not surprising they acted as they did.

[2]You do realise that without that pre-race agreement, Vettel may well not have got the tow that got him past Hamilton and Leclerc would not have left the door open for him to take the lead.

In order to have trust within the team and to make things like that work, both drivers have to honour their agreements.


As I said earlier, I don't agree with this kind of thing and think Ferrari were wrong to implement it in the first place...it inevitably leads to trouble. However, if the plan was discussed with the drivers and agreed upon, then they BOTH had a duty to do their bit.
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Post by Just John on Mon 30 Sep 2019, 3:27 pm

Helmut Marko wading in : ‘‘Ferrari managed not to win despite having the fastest cars. And although he was the faster man, they sacrificed Sebastian. He has no future at Ferrari anymore.'

Tbh, it’s a mess, that was inevitably coming, as soon as Leclerc was quicker than Vettel in Bahrain. Ferrari invited this scenario, when they removed the comfort blanket of Räikkönen. They just look like a team, unaccustomed to such a scenario, having not been this competitive for donkey years, and now having two drivers, unwilling to play the #2 role.

Have to agree with, Marko. This isn’t solved, anytime soon, especially if both remain. Vettel has been crap for a while, and Leclerc is the future, so if one does have to leave, i’d expect it will be, Vettel. Not sure you can really challenge Hamilton, unless they have one dominant driver, next year. The only way you get away with having this problem, and allowing them to race, is if your car is dominant, and you don’t have to worry about the competition. Ferrari, don’t have that luxury.

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Post by No name Bertie on Mon 30 Sep 2019, 6:12 pm

Leclerc has outqualified Vettel 9 times in a row since the Canadian Grand Prix.  He has shown he is better and braver in handling this Ferrari car than Vettel.  Vettel has been left in Leclerc's wake.  However, Vettel does seem to be fighting back now at least in the past two races.  Analysts suggest that Vettel although a great racing driver (four times Championship winner) is not particularly adaptable in getting the best out of all sorts of cars.  It has been Leclerc that seems to have got to grips with the 2019 Ferrari in terms of his driving style and it seems that it has been with Leclerc's feedback that Ferrari have been able to make the step-change improvement of the car since the summer break.  

To many it had seemed early on in this season Leclerc was the better driver for this car and that the Ferrari team were not getting the best results in terms of race strategy because they were favouring Vettel over Leclerc.  This is Leclerc's rookie season at Ferrari and his confidence and demands have grown.  He particularly has shown a step change in aggression following the Austrian Grand Prix (30 June 2019) when he was expecting Verstappen to receive a penalty when Verstappen aggressively overtook Leclerc for the win.

Vettel it seems has been somewhat sidelined as Ferrari recognise that Leclerc is more special than they had first imagined and are beginning to favour Leclerc now over Vettel and Leclerc is now acting as if he is their number one driver.   However, I think in the past two races he has become a little bit too demanding and expectant in the race situation.  But maybe this is just a reflection of Leclerc being a winner and future world drivers champion.

In the post race press conference in Russia - Hamilton said he had thought Leclerc was a four times grand prix winner.   Leclerc said he was exagerating Leclerc's abilities.  However Leclerc could have been a four times winner given the engine issue in Bahrain while leading, and given the debatable overtake of Verstappen at the Austrian grand prix, when Leclerc was leading (at that time Leclerc was unsure what levels of aggression was acceptible).

One wonders, if "this Leclerc" was at Ferrari in 2018, whether Ferrari might have won that drivers championships - Vettel and Ferrari seemed to lose their way in the back end of 2018.

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Post by Just John on Fri 11 Oct 2019, 8:32 am

Qualifying cancelled until Sunday, four hours before the race. Given the FIA’s desire to spice things up, this probably could of been an excuse to just run a reverse championship grid, and seen how it panned out.


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Post by GSC on Fri 11 Oct 2019, 8:38 pm

dont think that's plausible to throw in to an existing season, especially at the last minute
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Post by No name Bertie on Sat 12 Oct 2019, 1:02 am

If qualifying is cancelled Sunday they will line up according to the order of fastest lap posted in Free Practice 2.  The weather conditions - wet ? and windy - makes it difficult to judge whether Mercedes have made any significant improvement with their aerodynamics  - in any case the changes are described as "small upgrades to the sidepods".  For next year Mercedes need to find more power in their engine as do Honda & Renault in order to compete with the Ferraris (seeing that Ferrari are now getting their act together in terms of drivers and aero).

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Post by dyrewolfe on Sat 12 Oct 2019, 10:28 am

GSC wrote:dont think that's plausible to throw in to an existing season, especially at the last minute

I dunno...given that the titles are pretty much sewn up, I don't see that it would really hurt anything. That said, none of the teams are in favour of reverse grids, so I can't see it being adopted any time soon. But, as a one-off event, it would spice up what is looking like a fairly pedestrian final leg of the season.

But, as Bertie said, looks like they will line up in FP2 order, which I suppose is as fair as they can make it under the circumstances. Though I did hear talk of quali being run Sunday morning. Dunno if they're still considering that.
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Post by Marky on Sat 12 Oct 2019, 11:30 am

The official plan is 2am qualifying, 6:10am race (UK time, obviously), they won't make a final decision on qualifying until nearer the time depending on the potential damage.

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Post by GSC on Sat 12 Oct 2019, 8:59 pm

dyrewolfe wrote:
GSC wrote:dont think that's plausible to throw in to an existing season, especially at the last minute

I dunno...given that the titles are pretty much sewn up, I don't see that it would really hurt anything. That said, none of the teams are in favour of reverse grids, so I can't see it being adopted any time soon. But, as a one-off event, it would spice up what is looking like a fairly pedestrian final leg of the season.

But, as Bertie said, looks like they will line up in FP2 order, which I suppose is as fair as they can make it under the circumstances. Though I did hear talk of quali being run Sunday morning. Dunno if they're still considering that.
the titles may be sewn up but teams are still fighting for positions and prize money.
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Post by Marky on Sun 13 Oct 2019, 8:02 am

Mercedes-Benz breaking records again

6 doubles in a row is ridiculously good

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Post by No name Bertie on Sun 13 Oct 2019, 8:46 am

Mercedes win both the constructors and drivers championships.  The BBC have so far missed that latter fact in their live web reporting and current articles on their sports webpage.  Only Hamilton and Bottas can win the drivers championship with four races to go.  Hamilton leads Bottas by 64 points in the drivers championship.  There is some suggestion that Hamilton didn't need to be pitted a second time -  but I am not sure given his first set of tyres didn't last that much longer than Bottas.

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Post by Just John on Sun 13 Oct 2019, 9:25 am

Ferrari throwing away another front row lockout. The gift that keeps on giving.

Congrats to Mercedes on their sixth Constructors Championship in a row  clap

Depressing day for Verstappen & RB, with that engine upgrade failing to make any impact, with Albon finishing a minute behind Bottas.

As for the stewards, they seem to of just taken a completely relaxed approach now. Good to see hard racing, but I think Albon’s move on Norris crossed the line. Should of been penalised during the race, but Leclerc finally gets a 15 second penalty, post race, for his collision with Verstappen, and for failing to pit, with a damaged car.

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Post by dyrewolfe on Sun 13 Oct 2019, 5:07 pm

Just when you thought Ferrari's comedy of errors was over... Laugh

But then I guess Seb isn't used to being on pole much lately. That said, Charles was pretty tardy with his start too.

Congrats to Bottas for nailing his start and leading from start to finish, helping to secure Mercedes' 6th title in a row, along with Hamilton's 3rd place. A new record I understand.

Some strange pit calls for Lewis, I felt, but I'm guessing the team were anxious to avoid any potential on-track shenanigans that might prolong clinching the constructor's trophy. Hopefully he and Valtteri will be free to race for the remainder of the season.

Decent recovery by Seb to take 2nd, but disappointed Charles further stuffed his race by hitting Verstappen at the first corner. Still not sure whether he intended to try and force Max wide, or if he just lost downforce & drifted. Finished 6th but demoted to 7th following penalties for the collision and not pitting after damaging his car (Hamilton got a face full of Ferrari wing after the end plate detached and flew into his car).

Good races for Albon, Sainz & Ricciardo...especially Daniel, after Renault's miserable showing in quali. Alex somehow managed to avoid a penalty for a late dive up the inside of Norris, resulting in a collision, but other than that, a solid performance. Nice to see the pair joking in interviews afterwards...hopefully no lingering ill feeling there.

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Post by Just John on Thu 24 Oct 2019, 9:13 am

Renault have been disqualified from the Japanese Grand Prix for having an illegal driver-aid system on their car.

Officials found that Renault's brake-bias adjustment system contravened rules dictating that drivers must drive the car alone and unaided

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Post by dyrewolfe on Thu 24 Oct 2019, 10:01 am

Just John wrote:Renault have been disqualified from the Japanese Grand Prix for having an illegal driver-aid system on their car.

Officials found that Renault's brake-bias adjustment system contravened rules dictating that drivers must drive the car alone and unaided


Small but important nit-pick...they found the brake adjustment system complied with the technical regulations, as there are some ambiguities in them. The officials ruled however that the system constituted an illegal driver aid.

Basically Renault tried to exploit a loophole, but the FIA decided to close it.

From what I can gather, it automatically adjusted the brake bias, saving the driver from having to do it manually.



Officials said the braking adjustment system on the Renault complied with the technical regulations because it "exploited certain ambiguities" within them.

However, they ruled that it did constitute a driver aid as outlawed under the sporting regulations.

The ruling said: "The brake balance adjustment system in question acts as a driver aid by saving the driver from having to make a number of adjustments during a lap."

The ruling added: "The stewards note that there is a clear distinction between this system and one which provides actual feedback control, which would be a substitute for driver skills or reflexes."

But it concluded that it did nevertheless constitute a driver aid.
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Post by GSC on Sat 26 Oct 2019, 7:32 pm

stroll remains an embarrassment to the sport
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Post by Just John on Sat 26 Oct 2019, 8:38 pm

Max Pole, but expect Ferrari to ease past down that straight. Bottas doing Bottas stuff in Q3.

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Post by GSC on Sat 26 Oct 2019, 9:28 pm

might be in trouble before then anyway, went purple in the last sector under double yellows means problems
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Post by GSC on Sat 26 Oct 2019, 9:40 pm

and summoned to the stewards...
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Post by GSC on Sun 27 Oct 2019, 6:27 am

and demoted to 4th
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Post by GSC on Sun 27 Oct 2019, 6:40 am

Harsh on Max, he didnt even need the 2nd lap, but rules are rules and Vettel lifted there also
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Post by Just John on Sun 27 Oct 2019, 9:01 pm

Hamilton wins the Mexican GP. Correct strategy call, after all. Edges closer to his sixth WDC.

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Post by dyrewolfe on Sun 27 Oct 2019, 9:07 pm

Well that was shaping up to be an interesting race...unfortunately pretty much all the excitement happened in the first 5-6 laps.

After a chaotic start that involved a VSC, it settled into a fairly pedestrian race, settled by strategy.

Hamilton had an early brush with the hard-charging Verstappen, as did Bottas, which resulted in Max having to pit with a puncture, following contact during an overtake. Hamilton pitted early for hard tyres and once the Ferraris pitted he led to the chequered flag. Bottas had one of his usual quiet races - always in the hunt for a podium. Even had a chance at getting past Vettel for second, but never really looked as though he was trying that hard.

Title race to be settled in the US.

Vettel started where he finished...a relatively uneventful and error-free race. However Ferrari still managed to shoot themselves in the foot by messing up Leclerc's pit stop, which dropped him a few places. Decent comeback drive saw him get very close to Bottas, but never looked like getting past.

Good race for Red Bull. Albon was running 3rd for a while, but finished a creditable 5th. Verstappen mostly redeemed himself, coming through the field to finish 6th.

Mexican fans will be happy with Perez finishing 7th. Both Toro Rossos in the points also.


Just hope Austin is more exciting that this race. Final stint was a real anti-climax, with the leaders seemingly just following each other around in a high-speed parade lap.


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Post by No name Bertie on Sun 27 Oct 2019, 9:55 pm

Albon was pitted on lap 15 when he was in third and Leclerc was pitted on lap 16 to cover Albon, when he was leading.  Vettel, Hamilton and Bottas pitted later with a one stopper and finished ahead of both Leclerc and Albon at the end of the race.  So why did Red Bull pit Albon?  

I suppose they didn't have the data to be certain at that time whether a two stop or one stop strategy would end up being best.  As it turned out the one stop strategy was the best.

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Post by GSC on Mon 28 Oct 2019, 9:21 am

cant say I watched it but sounds like one of the processional races decided by strategy.
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Post by CaledonianCraig on Mon 28 Oct 2019, 10:21 am

It was a race that examplified the problems of F1 perfectly.

Cars cannot follow other cars for long stretches of time without putting too much stress on the tyres and cooling of engines so they invariably need to back off every couple of laps or so. It is a problem everybody knows exists. Liberty Media and FIA are looking to change that with redesigning of cars etc for next year and coming years but guess what? The leading teams are against change and will vote against these changes.
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Post by dyrewolfe on Mon 28 Oct 2019, 11:45 am

GSC wrote:cant say I watched it but sounds like one of the processional races decided by strategy.

Pretty much. Mercedes decided to 1-stop and asked Lewis to do nearly 50 laps on hard tyres. He complained quite a bit to begin with, but settled down and just managed his tyres once he was leading.

Ferrari went with 2 stops - believing Mercedes would be forced to pit again...or that their tyres would reach the cliff edge in the last few laps. Also botched Leclerc's stop, which cost him a couple of places. Merc pitted their drivers while Ferrari were leading and made the undercut work.

After the first stint the only real action was in the midfield - apart from Verstappen going from last to 6th, after pitting early with a puncture.


CaledonianCraig wrote:
It was a race that examplified the problems of F1 perfectly.

Cars cannot follow other cars for long stretches of time without putting too much stress on the tyres and cooling of engines so they invariably need to back off every couple of laps or so. It is a problem everybody knows exists. Liberty Media and FIA are looking to change that with redesigning of cars etc for next year and coming years but guess what? The leading teams are against change and will vote against these changes.

They may try to but, given the glaring issues the sport has, I expect Liberty and the FIA to overrule any objections from the teams...or at least do some serious arm-twisting. The main objections are coming (unsurprisingly) from Mercedes, Ferrari and to a lesser extent Red Bull, so its essentially them against everyone else.

The 2021 design regs are nearly finalised. All the data points to them allowing much closer racing. The budget cap has been agreed, in principle. Only thing I've not read anything about are the proposed changes to the prize money.
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Post by CaledonianCraig on Mon 28 Oct 2019, 12:05 pm

dyrewolfe wrote:
GSC wrote:cant say I watched it but sounds like one of the processional races decided by strategy.

Pretty much. Mercedes decided to 1-stop and asked Lewis to do nearly 50 laps on hard tyres. He complained quite a bit to begin with, but settled down and just managed his tyres once he was leading.

Ferrari went with 2 stops - believing Mercedes would be forced to pit again...or that their tyres would reach the cliff edge in the last few laps. Also botched Leclerc's stop, which cost him a couple of places. Merc pitted their drivers while Ferrari were leading and made the undercut work.

After the first stint the only real action was in the midfield - apart from Verstappen going from last to 6th, after pitting early with a puncture.


CaledonianCraig wrote:
It was a race that examplified the problems of F1 perfectly.

Cars cannot follow other cars for long stretches of time without putting too much stress on the tyres and cooling of engines so they invariably need to back off every couple of laps or so. It is a problem everybody knows exists. Liberty Media and FIA are looking to change that with redesigning of cars etc for next year and coming years but guess what? The leading teams are against change and will vote against these changes.

They may try to but, given the glaring issues the sport has, I expect Liberty and the FIA to overrule any objections from the teams...or at least do some serious arm-twisting. The main objections are coming (unsurprisingly) from Mercedes, Ferrari and to a lesser extent Red Bull, so its essentially them against everyone else.

The 2021 design regs are nearly finalised. All the data points to them allowing much closer racing. The budget cap has been agreed, in principle. Only thing I've not read anything about are the proposed changes to the prize money.

It has long angered me about teams holding the sport to ransom threatening to leave if things do not go there way. Okay in some instances their stance I could sympathise with but in this case it is a no brainer and smacks of 'I'm alright Jack' attitude.
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Post by No name Bertie on Mon 28 Oct 2019, 12:36 pm

The Budget caps also means people being sacked from Mercedes and Ferrari and presumably Red Bull. It also means restructuring their team organisation. One of the things they are concerned about is to how to regulate and monitor this - there are some issues of subcontracting and tracking funding inputs. They want to be confident their main competitors don't "cheat" the cap. On top of that there is also going to be all the new technological regulations. The big teams Mercedes, Ferrari, Red Bull want the budget cap introduced first and then a year later all the new technology regulations.

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Post by dyrewolfe on Tue 29 Oct 2019, 12:09 pm

I'm interested to know how they plan to monitor / enforce the budget cap. One was proposed quite a few years ago, but they basically gave up because the teams had so many ways of channelling funds to different departments, to cover what they were doing, it became a futile exercise.

If this is going to work, they're going to have to force the teams to be a lot more transparent.

Also feel bad for all the staff that will have to be laid off...but the majority will be highly skilled and ought to be able to find similar jobs elsewhere.


Completely agree with CaledonianCraig's response. No team can be allowed to be bigger than the sport, if it is to have a long term future.

Merc, Ferrari & RB should be looking at the bigger picture and realise this is being done to make F1 a better spectator sport...hopefully leading to bigger crowds / viewing figures, more sponsor interest & ultimately more money.

Everyone will be starting from the same baseline in 2021, but those with the best design teams are still likely to be at the top of the pecking order (or at least rise to the top pretty quickly).

My only real concern about the new design regs is how limited teams will be to develop cars through the season. Now presumably they also have to factor in where the dirty air goes, once it leaves the car, to make sure it doesn't create turbulence for following cars.
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Post by Just John on Tue 29 Oct 2019, 1:07 pm

dyrewolfe wrote:presumably they also have to factor in where the dirty air goes, once it leaves the car, to make sure it doesn't create turbulence for following cars.

Good luck telling any designer to factor that in. ‘Mr Designer, can you please make sure that dirty air doesn’t affect our rival behind,’ 😂 . As for the limited ability to develop a car, i’m sure there will be scope, but it could be a handcuff for many designers, and probably why Newey is jumping ship or focus to Extreme E etc in 2021


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Post by No name Bertie on Wed 30 Oct 2019, 1:51 pm

One of the things the owners wanted to do with F1 for next year (2020) was to have three races where drivers lined up for the race in reverse qualifying order.  Mercedes and an another unspecified team rejected the idea.  Ross Brawn and the owners were disappointed.  They said they needed to experiment in order to improve the racing experience for race goers and global television viewers.  It seems the owners are keen to grow their market to increase their profit margins.

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Post by dyrewolfe on Sun 03 Nov 2019, 7:32 pm

No name Bertie wrote:One of the things the owners wanted to do with F1 for next year (2020) was to have three races where drivers lined up for the race in reverse qualifying order.  Mercedes and an another unspecified team rejected the idea.  Ross Brawn and the owners were disappointed.  They said they needed to experiment in order to improve the racing experience for race goers and global television viewers.  It seems the owners are keen to grow their market to increase their profit margins.

Not surprising the idea was rejected. This isn't touring cars, where they routinely run nose to tail.

Even vastly quicker cars, starting from the back, tend to hit a roadblock once they get into the top 10.
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Post by dyrewolfe on Sun 03 Nov 2019, 7:33 pm

Vettel broke his car going over the kerbs. Rolling Eyes Just as well he was already having a poor race.
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Post by Just John on Sun 03 Nov 2019, 8:41 pm

Ferrari’s pace disappearing, I wonder why? 😂

Bottas looking comfortable for the win now. Hamilton heading towards his sixth WDC clap


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Post by Marky on Sun 03 Nov 2019, 9:06 pm

Roughly 400 points for Hamilton this season, all of them lucky if you believe certain posters Laugh

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Post by dyrewolfe on Sun 03 Nov 2019, 9:14 pm

Congrats Lewis Hamilton on an incredible 6th world title! clap Yahoo

Okay, so it was pretty much a foregone conclusion unless he DNF'ed, but its a testament to the results he got throughout the season to put him in such a strong position...albeit with a LOT of help from Ferrari's catalogue of mistakes and car failures. Probably had his 2nd place saved by the yellow flags at the end, when Magnussen went off (suspected brake failure).

Nice bit of excitement at the end as Bottas chased him down and eventually overtook him to win the race (Valtteri's 4th victory of the season). Guess a 2-stop strategy is the best after all.

Ferrari yet again managing to look good in qualifying, only to have terrible race pace. Failure to get their tyres up to temperature saw both Vettel & Leclerc lose places at the start. Vettel, already struggling with understeer, strayed onto the kerbs once too often on lap 8 and broke his suspension. Leclerc had a pretty innocuous race, finishing a distant 4th.

Another good race for Red Bull. Verstappen going with an aggressive strategy, that enabled him to chase down the Mercedes in the closing stages. Nearly got within DRS of Hamilton, but had to back off for the yellow flags. Decent 3rd place. Albon showed his star quality, after a collision at the start meant he had to pit early. Came from the back to finish 5th. This guy is definitely one to watch.

Great race for Renault after some pretty poor showings - Ricciardo fighting hard for his 6th place and Hulk a respectable 9th.

McLarens finishing where they started (7th & 8th) to keep their constructors' tally ticking over.
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Post by No name Bertie on Sun 03 Nov 2019, 10:14 pm

Next year is going to be a 22 race season and the F1 owners want to make it a 25 race season within a few years. Teams are worried about personel fatigue and burnout having to travel the world to keep the show on the road always under intense pressure to perform and meet their own improvement targets.

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Post by No name Bertie on Sun 03 Nov 2019, 10:22 pm

Just John wrote:Ferrari’s pace disappearing, I wonder why? 😂

Bottas looking comfortable for the win now. Hamilton heading towards his sixth WDC  clap

It could be just the race track conditions.  Yes Red Bull think Ferrari are doing something with the fuel flowmeter so that either it underreads fuel flow or bypasses it (some sort of controlled leak of oil into the fuel line or into the engine has been suggested).

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Post by Nathaniel Jacobs on Sun 03 Nov 2019, 10:24 pm

Schumacher won his 7th championship after 228 races, when the calendar had fewer races.

Mediocre Hamilton reaches a 6th championship in 248 races.

There’s no comparison between Schumacher and Hamilton

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Post by No name Bertie on Sun 03 Nov 2019, 11:56 pm

Schumacher and Hamilton were / are different types of drivers.  Schumacher never had a competitive team co-driver so that when the car was the best car or highly competitive - he hoovered up most of the team points, team podiums and team race wins.   The question then arises why didn't Schumacher ever have a competitive team co-driver.  Could it be because most (but not all) teams had a strict policy of having a number one driver and a support driver, or was it because Schumacher's attention to detail and feedback resulted in a faster car and a car designed for him, or was it because there weren't that many talented drivers around (in the era before Schumacher the death toll or injury toll on drivers was quite high).

Of course this refers to Schumachers first period in f1 (1992 - 2006) and not his second period (2010 - 2012) where he teamed up with Nico Rosberg at Mercedes.

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Post by GSC on Mon 04 Nov 2019, 6:54 am

look, the only way anyone accumulates as many titles as Schumacher or Lewis is driving for a dominant team or a particular era, that's just the nature of F1. Doesnt make a WDC any less impressive or meaningful
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Post by Marky on Mon 04 Nov 2019, 9:55 am

Nathaniel Jacobs wrote:Schumacher won his 7th championship after 228 races, when the calendar had fewer races.

Mediocre Hamilton reaches a 6th championship in 248 races.

There’s no comparison between Schumacher and Hamilton

I bet the only thing sweeter than the champagne to Hamilton is the tears of his haters Wink

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