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Post by GPB on Mon 14 Jan 2019, 6:56 pm

First topic message reminder :

New Year, Time for a New Thread.

EuroTour makes it 2019 Debut this week with the Abu Dhabi HSBC Classic Presented by EGA.  Next week is Dubai and the following week is the New Saudi Event

Guessing that the EGA Presentation got Abu Dhabi a promotion to a Rolex Series event.


DJ and BK are playing in Abu Dhabi.  So is Fleetwood, Stenson, Oosthuizen, RCB, Barnrat, Poulter, and Oleson

Despite the the Hired Guns from USA and Rolex Promotion, Abu Dhabi will have its lowest OWGR rating in 10 yrs.  Pelley can't be happy about that.

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Post by kwinigolfer on Wed 11 Sep 2019, 12:00 pm

McLaren wrote:The Open has Rolex branding all over it, do you suggest the Omega players should give it a miss?


Of course not. And not sure that I "suggested" anything. But golfers for decades have been under sponsor agreements not to play certain events.
I'm certain to get the fine points incorrect, but Tiger wouldn't play Colonial, for instance, when it was sponsored by Mastercard, because of his deal with American Express (and subsequently he never has anyway). And Greg Norman and Rory have had to manage occasional event clashes due to watch brand rivalry.
I believe Kaymer not playing a Porsche event is part of the same thing.

PS: I loved it when lw1 won the FedEx-sponsored Memphis event - tho' FedEx wasn't then the title sponsor.

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Post by McLaren on Wed 11 Sep 2019, 1:19 pm

Sorry didn't mean to say that you think they should skip the Open I was just trying to explore the exceptions they make for the proposed sponsor related pull outs.

I am just not convinced a player could commit to skipping an event as part of a sponsor deal when you also have to build a schedule around adding a new event, only skippin 3 events, playing the event your sponsor actually wants you to play, prepping for a congested major schedule and no doubt many more considerations. At any rate avoiding a clash of watch makers must be low on the agenda when deciding where to play in a season.
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Post by kwinigolfer on Wed 11 Sep 2019, 1:33 pm

Mac,
There was even speculation that Omega's relationship with Greg Norman was a factor in Rolex prevailing upon Finchem to dump Shark as International Team Cap't at the PC.
Not trying to convince you, just saying some of that goes on.

Sad to lose Brian Barnes just a month after Gordon Brand holed out.

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Post by robopz on Fri 13 Sep 2019, 10:59 am

kwinigolfer wrote:Mac,
There was even speculation that Omega's relationship with Greg Norman was a factor in Rolex prevailing upon Finchem to dump Shark as International Team Cap't at the PC.
Not trying to convince you, just saying some of that goes on.
Kwini... I can't speak for the European tour, but the sponsor conflict thing is about as close to a non-factor as it could be on the PGA Tour. In fact sponsor can't even legally bind his player to play in his own event much less avoid some competitors event. Now {wink-wink} of course the players are going to play in the sponsors title event, but none of the top players are going to accept an exclusion. The exception, the BS FedEx non-compete exclusion, basically preventing independent players taking sponsorship from other shipping companies (except as already grandfathered). All that's done is cause me to root harder for Westwood or Oosthuisen in either Memphis or Atlanta. I think the greatest thing ever would be to see Louie hoisting that FedEx trophy with that big UPS logo on his chest... Very Happy

I have seen some of the Rolex Omega things play out on the Euro Tour though... That's unfortunate....

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Post by kwinigolfer on Fri 13 Sep 2019, 2:57 pm

Agree with most of that, robo,
Though I DO recall the Tiger Amex/MC incident, though whether there was really any substance to it, I've no idea.


Back in Holland, great start to Duncan Stewart's round: five under par over his first 8 holes, and on schedule to get paid for once - then throws in a quick 14 on his second nine. How do pros, John Daly excepted, even do something like that?

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Post by super_realist on Fri 13 Sep 2019, 3:04 pm

Tin cup Kwini. Belligerent play usually.

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Post by kwinigolfer on Sun 15 Sep 2019, 4:27 pm

Something for all the Sergio haters to wring their hands about - KLM Open Champion.

About time he showed some form, hopefully he can kick on from this.

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Post by pedro on Mon 16 Sep 2019, 7:33 am

Hojgaard, 18 yo European amateur champ (now turned pro) comes in 2nd, 1 shot short. Could that be a new star?

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Post by robopz on Mon 16 Sep 2019, 8:14 pm

Kwini... What Amex incident with Tiger?

Solid field for the BMW PGA...  Barring any significant WDs should be the strongest field since 2011 (at least in OWGR terms).  The actual strength of field hasn't nearly supported the 64 winners points it's been awarded for a long time... Good to see the subsidy getting a little less now.

Here's a comparison of the actual OWGR field strength of tbe ET's flagship BMW PGA to the PGAT'S flagship PLAYERS Champ since 2000.

European Tour - 2019 - Page 6 C2aa6110


Last edited by robopz on Mon 16 Sep 2019, 11:05 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by pedro on Mon 16 Sep 2019, 10:23 pm

Interesting robo,
46 points in ‘16 and ‘18 was p!ss poor.

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Post by kwinigolfer on Mon 16 Sep 2019, 11:09 pm

robo,
It's so long ago now that it's tough to find corroborating stories, but there was chat twenty years ago, when MasterCard was the title sponsor, that Woods would never play Colonial due to conflict with an Amex sponsorship.
This is the best that I can do . . . . . :

https://www.nytimes.com/1997/05/20/business/tiger-woods-signs-pact-with-american-express.html

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Post by robopz on Tue 17 Sep 2019, 2:15 am

kwinigolfer wrote:robo,
It's so long ago now that it's tough to find corroborating stories, but there was chat twenty years ago, when MasterCard was the title sponsor, that Woods would never play Colonial due to conflict with an Amex sponsorship.
This is the best that I can do . . . . . :

https://www.nytimes.com/1997/05/20/business/tiger-woods-signs-pact-with-american-express.html
I may have actually ran across that archived chat when looking around on the topic myself today.  But what I saw I would call mostly "unsubstantiated blog bloviating".   Tiger sure didn't have any issues playing the Bay Hill/Arnold Palmer presented by MasterCard while sponsored by AMEX... And interestingly enough, the first event Tiger played AFTER signing his deal with AMEX... you guessed it... the MasterCard Colonial.  But I wouldn't doubt the timing of the announcement early in Colonial Week wasn't entirely coincidental Very Happy But IMO the only reason he didn't go back to Colonial is he won the Nelson the week before and wasn't going to play both Texas events going forward and figured the Nelson (and Byron's presence) better suited him.

Also...  Tiger was sponsored by Buick but didn't have issues playing events sponsored by Nissan (Los Angeles) or Ford (Doral) or Mercedes (ToC)...

Bottom line:  I'm not saying a player NEVER avoids an event titled by a sponsors competitor... but I just don't think it is now, or ever has been much of an issue on this side of the pond.  But I wouldn't expect a guy like Fowler sponsored by Farmers to do any "extra" activities at the Travelers for instance (and Fowler has played Travelers once since signing with Farmers). He'd just go in more quietly than normal and play.

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Post by pedro on Tue 17 Sep 2019, 11:52 am

This is for super_:
https://www.golfchannel.com/news/watch-shirtless-kiradech-aphibarnrat-bears-all-during-summer-range-session

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Post by kwinigolfer on Tue 17 Sep 2019, 12:06 pm

pedro wrote:This is for super_:
https://www.golfchannel.com/news/watch-shirtless-kiradech-aphibarnrat-bears-all-during-summer-range-session

Saw that, love the pun!

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Post by super_realist on Tue 17 Sep 2019, 3:08 pm

kwinigolfer wrote:
pedro wrote:This is for super_:
https://www.golfchannel.com/news/watch-shirtless-kiradech-aphibarnrat-bears-all-during-summer-range-session

Saw that, love the pun!

Funny how they call it a "dad bod" as if that somehow makes it acceptable to be that fat just because you happen to be of parenting age. It isn't. It's the slovenly body of a glutton. Absolute disgrace for anyone, let alone someone who plays professional sport (in the loosest possible sense) for a living.

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Post by GPB on Wed 18 Sep 2019, 12:47 am

I can see why you think you are fun at parties.

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Post by GPB on Wed 18 Sep 2019, 12:48 am

Viktor paired with Harrington.

Random Pairing? I don't think so.

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Post by super_realist on Wed 18 Sep 2019, 6:34 am

GPB wrote:I can see why you think you are fun at parties.

I didn't ever say I was fun at parties, but if you think I'm miserable and morose you should take a look at yourself because everything you ever post is critical and negative.

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Post by pedro on Wed 18 Sep 2019, 12:47 pm

super_realist wrote:
kwinigolfer wrote:
pedro wrote:This is for super_:
https://www.golfchannel.com/news/watch-shirtless-kiradech-aphibarnrat-bears-all-during-summer-range-session

Saw that, love the pun!

Funny how they call it a "dad bod" as if that somehow makes it acceptable to be that fat just because you happen to be of parenting age. It isn't. It's  the slovenly body of a glutton. Absolute disgrace for anyone, let alone someone who plays professional sport (in the loosest possible sense) for a living.
Apparently Aphibarnrat had a local Thai dish named after him: Sum Phat Gai.

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Post by pedro on Wed 18 Sep 2019, 12:48 pm

GPB wrote:I can see why you think you are fun at parties.
To be fun at parties requires that you’re invited.

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Post by kwinigolfer on Wed 18 Sep 2019, 4:21 pm

Robert Karlsson the first to be named as a VC by Capt Harrington for the 2020 Ryder Cup.

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Post by kwinigolfer on Wed 18 Sep 2019, 4:41 pm

kwinigolfer wrote:Robert Karlsson the first to be named as a VC by Capt Harrington for the 2020 Ryder Cup.
. . . . . . .


. . . . . . And one golfer is increasingly unlikely to be a part of that Team as Thorbjorn Olesen is now suspended by the European Tour through December. Self inflicted of course, but a great shame nevertheless.

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Post by super_realist on Wed 18 Sep 2019, 4:56 pm

pedro wrote:
super_realist wrote:
kwinigolfer wrote:
pedro wrote:This is for super_:
https://www.golfchannel.com/news/watch-shirtless-kiradech-aphibarnrat-bears-all-during-summer-range-session

Saw that, love the pun!

Funny how they call it a "dad bod" as if that somehow makes it acceptable to be that fat just because you happen to be of parenting age. It isn't. It's  the slovenly body of a glutton. Absolute disgrace for anyone, let alone someone who plays professional sport (in the loosest possible sense) for a living.
Apparently Aphibarnrat had a local Thai dish named after him: Sum Phat Gai.

Related to the air crew of the crashed jet that American news channel was so thick it fell for?
Sum Ting Wong
Wai too Lo
Ho Lee Fuk
Bang Ding Ow

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Post by GPB on Wed 18 Sep 2019, 6:15 pm

Nice of the BMW-PGA to exempt Jose Maria Olazabal, Matthew Cort, Paul O'Hara, David Howell, David Dixon, and SSP Chowrasia. All players ranked outside the OWGR 1000.

While a guy that is ranked inside the RtD Top 30 and OWGR Top 100 is the 6th alternate. Adri Arnaus.

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Post by super_realist on Wed 18 Sep 2019, 6:40 pm

Jose is already an honorary life member of the European Tour. They can let him in if they like.
No one has ever heard of Adri Arnaus.

As you always say, you must be fun at parties. Do you get up every morning and take your moaning pill?

I bet you wouldn't bat an eyelid when the PGA of America gives starts to US players do you? Why is it always an attack on the European Tour and never a dig at the PGA when they do exactly the same?

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Post by kwinigolfer on Wed 18 Sep 2019, 7:01 pm

GPB wrote:Nice of the BMW-PGA to exempt Jose Maria Olazabal, Matthew Cort, Paul O'Hara, David Howell, David Dixon, and SSP Chowrasia.  All players ranked outside the OWGR 1000.

While a guy that is ranked inside the RtD Top 30 and OWGR Top 100 is the 6th alternate.  Adri Arnaus.


Agree with Prince Drac that there should be a way in for Arnaus, but Howell is a former Champ (he'd have a lifetime exemption at the PGA Championship) and the others are the equivalent of Sectional representatives (National Spots - there are 15 PGA Pros at the US PGA) or, in Chowrasia's case, qualified under the stipulated qualifying criteria.

Difficult to see what's wrong with any of that.

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Post by GPB on Wed 18 Sep 2019, 10:17 pm

How about Julien Guerrier and Tapio Pulkkanen

/rhetorical

So we are in agreement that subjective and capricious standards for exemptions is OK for Big golf tournaments.

Or is it only OK for the BMW-PGA tournament, and not the Masters, and PGA?

BTW, only 132 players in BMW PGA.

Super, The "Fun at Parties" comment must have really got to you. I think you got a severe case of Pee Wee Herman

Spoiler:
European Tour - 2019 - Page 6 But-what-am-rator-net-i-know-you-are-but-what-52976159

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Post by kwinigolfer on Wed 18 Sep 2019, 10:30 pm

Don't understand your comment re "subjective & capricious standards":
Guerrier & Pulkkanen qualified by virtue of their position in last year's R2D rankings.
(Imagine you know that however.)


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Post by dynamark on Thu 19 Sep 2019, 8:36 pm

Wentworth this time of year is just great/
Matt Cort has won Midland order of merit numerous times and presume that why he is in.
Very nice guy professional and if if he was 3 inches taller would probably be very successful.
Played with him a few times in the winter alliance and very close to being a top player like a lot of others in that league

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Post by super_realist on Fri 20 Sep 2019, 6:13 am

GPB wrote:How about Julien Guerrier and Tapio Pulkkanen

/rhetorical

So we are in agreement that subjective and capricious standards for exemptions is OK for Big golf tournaments.

Or is it only OK for the BMW-PGA tournament, and not the Masters, and PGA?

BTW, only 132 players in BMW PGA.  

Super, The "Fun at Parties" comment must have really got to you.  I think you got a severe case of Pee Wee Herman

Spoiler:
European Tour - 2019 - Page 6 But-what-am-rator-net-i-know-you-are-but-what-52976159

Don't know anything about Pee Wee Herman. It must be an American cultural reference.

I mention the fun at parties thing because you don't get the irony in the statement when you make it, but then there's an American stereotype in regards to not understanding irony isn't there?

When was the last time you posted anything that wasn't a moan? Whilst you seem to complain incessantly about the European Tour and European Golf.

Whoever this Spanish no mark is will probably get in next year in regards to his R2D ranking. Why do you even care anyway? Just seems like a pin to jab the ET (again) with

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Post by robopz on Fri 20 Sep 2019, 4:07 pm

GPB wrote:Nice of the BMW-PGA to exempt Jose Maria Olazabal, Matthew Cort, Paul O'Hara, David Howell, David Dixon, and SSP Chowrasia.  All players ranked outside the OWGR 1000.

While a guy that is ranked inside the RtD Top 30 and OWGR Top 100 is the 6th alternate.  Adri Arnaus.
I don't think a player in the same position as Arnaus on the PGA Tour would qualify for the Players Championship on the PGA tour either... But he would make the PGA Championship

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Post by robopz on Fri 20 Sep 2019, 5:39 pm

Can anybody tell me just what the criteria is for being granted Associate Membership on the European Tour?

I 100% get they would want to give it to Hovland (I would too), but how? Can any PGA Tour member just walk in and get it? Or Is it just an arbitrary decision Pelley or somebody makes on who does or doesn't get it? Or what?

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Post by kwinigolfer on Fri 20 Sep 2019, 5:54 pm

Seems to me that everything Pelley does is arbitrary . . . . . . . .

Unless he finishes the two final par-5's under par, Tommy Fleet would break an astonishingly long (35 events I think, next best in the low teens) streak of registering owgr points. As per the gospel according to Prince Drac.

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Post by robopz on Fri 20 Sep 2019, 6:33 pm

kwinigolfer wrote:Seems to me that everything Pelley does is arbitrary . . . . . . . .

Unless he finishes the two final par-5's under par, Tommy Fleet would break an astonishingly long (35 events I think, next best in the low teens) streak of registering owgr points. As per the gospel according to Prince Drac.
not sure I understand... Does that mean current active streak? Can't be all time...

By the way, I've been asking around on that associate membership thing... I got one response from Twitter that says you pay a fee and then count on sponsor exemptions to get starts... I'm trying to follow up and verify that

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Post by kwinigolfer on Fri 20 Sep 2019, 6:38 pm

Active.
And Tommy birdied #17, parred 18, so has a good chance of extending that streak.
According to pd's post Sept 10th, he's at 35, followed by King Louis at 14, Wyndham Webb at 13.

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Post by GPB on Fri 20 Sep 2019, 7:01 pm

robopz wrote:
GPB wrote:Nice of the BMW-PGA to exempt Jose Maria Olazabal, Matthew Cort, Paul O'Hara, David Howell, David Dixon, and SSP Chowrasia.  All players ranked outside the OWGR 1000.

While a guy that is ranked inside the RtD Top 30 and OWGR Top 100 is the 6th alternate.  Adri Arnaus.
I don't think a player in the same position as Arnaus on the PGA Tour would qualify for the Players Championship on the PGA tour either... But he would make the PGA Championship

There is a "fill the field" exemption to get the field to 144 players taken from the active FEX ranking. (if there was a 144 player at BMW, that would Adri get into the field.

Scanning next week's Dunhill field, I see DA Points is taking a Busman's Holiday to Scotland next week. His celebrity partner at Pebble Beach has typically been Bill Murray.

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Post by robopz on Fri 20 Sep 2019, 7:36 pm

GPB... So the field is 132. So what? If their flagship event, so they can set field size & criteria however they want...  Sure I guess it would be cool if current R2D 30 got in, but I don't see it a big deal that they don't. Just like current Fex 30 is not guaranteed to get into the Players. (They might get in but they might not). I actually prefer the field of 132 so everybody can start off number #1 in this particular event.

PS... But I can see a reason why the BMW PGA should take MORE current players off the current R2D list than the Players.  BMW PGA is a lot later in the season, so using the prior years R2D is a lot more "stale", than the prior year FEX is for the Players.

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Post by GPB on Fri 20 Sep 2019, 8:06 pm

So what? Sew Buttons! I am just making the point that Adri Arnaus should probably be in the field. Top 100 player and Inside the RtD Top 30. I think a golfer with the same qualifications would make the Players.

the JMO equivalent on the PGATour does not make the Players field. Lets call him Davis Love. And DLIII is a two time winner of the Players. JMO never won the BMW.

Just exposing the hypocrisy of some of the posters who complain every year about the Masters field, and the PGA field, with past champions and Club Pros getting in the field.

I can understand the preference to start at #1 at Wentworth West. especially since I think the 10th tee is a long way away from the clubhouse. But there are plenty of roads (not cart paths) that are criss-crossing nearly every hole at Wentworth West.

That said, 5 players didn't finish Round 2 today, but I guess there was some sort of medical emergency that stalled the action.

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Post by robopz on Fri 20 Sep 2019, 8:57 pm

GPB wrote:So what?  Sew Buttons!  I am just making the point that Adri Arnaus should probably be in the field.  Top 100 player and Inside the RtD Top 30.  I think a golfer with the same qualifications would make the Players.

the JMO equivalent on the PGATour does not make the Players field.  Lets call him Davis Love.  And DLIII is a two time winner of the Players.  JMO never won the BMW.

Just exposing the hypocrisy of some of the posters who complain every year about the Masters field, and the PGA field, with past champions and Club Pros getting in the field.

I can understand the preference to start at #1 at Wentworth West.  especially since I think the 10th tee is a long way away from the clubhouse.  But there are plenty of roads (not cart paths) that are criss-crossing nearly every hole at Wentworth West.

That said, 5 players didn't finish Round 2 today, but I guess there was some sort of medical emergency that stalled the action.
maybe next time you want to point out somebody's hypocrisy you could tell us you're pointing out their hypocrisy... So we wouldn't have to guess wrong what your motive is...

I think everybody gets that the ET has become even more of a feeder tour to the PGA Tour than ever before... but that doesn't mean that everything they do should be held up for derision or ridicule. (Even though Pelley often makes himself and the ET such an easy target...:-) This tournament for example. IMO 99% of what they're doing with it is pretty awesome. I'm not going to let the 1% or Arnaus status get in the way.

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Post by robopz on Fri 20 Sep 2019, 9:08 pm

Kwini... I'm getting a little more on that associate membership thing. There's a guy from Sky who has responded to my tweets that's going to run down the specifics for me.

But apparently, it's fairly cut and dried. They apparently have a list of tours from which members from those tours can apply for associate membership and pay a fee to become an associate member. Then it's up to the players to try to get sponsors exemptions or otherwise qualify to get into tournaments. That actually makes sense. Obviously a lot more liberal policy than the PGA Tour has, but it's obviously working in attracting some quality PGA tour players over to play at least a few events. So it sounds like it's not a favoritism thing, except that they probably recruit the PGAT pretty hard. Not that that would be necessary for Hovland, he definitely wants to play Rider cup.

If I get the specifics I'll post at a later date.

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Post by I'm never wrong on Sat 21 Sep 2019, 6:51 am

Robo - do you mean Affiliate Membership? See HERE

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Post by I'm never wrong on Sat 21 Sep 2019, 3:22 pm

There is (was) a different BMW available each tournament day for a hole in one at the 14th. Don’t know if anyone won one. But I do know that Ross Fisher got an albatross on the 18th which gets him a car (if he was the first). But that’s over £500,000 in cars that was available.

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Post by kouchi on Sun 22 Sep 2019, 12:30 am

GPB wrote:....  JMO never won the BMW.

Just exposing the hypocrisy of some of the posters ....

BTW. JMO did win 'the BMW'. In 1994 as a matter of fact. Only a BMW was called a Volvo in those days.

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Post by GPB on Sun 22 Sep 2019, 1:20 am

kouchi wrote:
GPB wrote:....  JMO never won the BMW.

Just exposing the hypocrisy of some of the posters ....

BTW. JMO did win 'the BMW'. In 1994 as a matter of fact. Only a BMW was called a Volvo in those days.

OOOPPS....My mistake

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Post by GPB on Sun 22 Sep 2019, 4:12 pm

Sam Torrance just told the Golf Channel audience that Willett is hoping to join Faldo as the only player to win the BMW-PGA along with the Masters

What about JMO? and Seve? and Palmer? And Langer?, and Cabrera?

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Post by super_realist on Sun 22 Sep 2019, 5:08 pm

GPB wrote:Sam Torrance just told the Golf Channel audience that Willett is hoping to join Faldo as the only player to win the BMW-PGA along with the Masters

What about JMO?  and Seve?  and Palmer?  And Langer?, and Cabrera?

Torrance frequently talks a load of Love sacks.

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Post by pedro on Sun 22 Sep 2019, 5:36 pm

With a Major, a Tour Championship, a PGA and an additional Rolex event, Willett must be contending as the greatest English player since Faldo.

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Post by I'm never wrong on Sun 22 Sep 2019, 6:29 pm

Or Justin Rose ....

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Post by super_realist on Sun 22 Sep 2019, 6:42 pm

I'm never wrong wrote:Or Justin Rose ....

or Lee Westwood or Luke Donald. I don't think that winning The Masters automatically means you've had a better career than someone who hasn't won a major.

Doubt many would think Paul Lawrie had a better career than Monty for example.

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Post by GPB on Mon 23 Sep 2019, 12:01 am

Hey Sam Torrance, Woosie also won both the Masters and the BMW PGA.

Seems like every notable Euro has won the BMW PGA.

Well except Westy.

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