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England - the winter tours thread

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Post by Gooseberry Tue 11 Dec 2018, 7:39 am

First topic message reminder :

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:
Dolphin Ziggler wrote:No Jofra then

Turns out he doesn’t actually qualify until March - so couldn’t make the West Indies tour

...and Smiths being more guarded about him for the world cup than the press hype has been.

But he is eligible for the T20s on this tour, for which the squad hasnt been named yet if he pulls out of the BBL. Aside form that theres just the 5 match warm up series against Pakistan for him to be capped before the world cup.

Smith does seem to think Denly can make a case for inclusion in the world cup squad, so despite him not getting much cricket in sri lanka, struggling with the bat, and only being a replacement for Dawson in the ODI squad he must be doing something right.

Of the two though you'd think Archer had more potential to improve Englands first XI on home pitches.


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Post by Duty281 Thu 31 Jan 2019, 7:53 pm

187 all out. Whichever way you cut it, I think that's too light. Spirited efforts from Moeen and Bairstow stopped England from being humiliated. Very good, accurate bowling from the Windies seamers, again.

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Post by Gooseberry Thu 31 Jan 2019, 8:03 pm

Glad I didnt watch!

Quite a show of faith in Moeen to put him up a place, and for once hes repaid the faith. too little too late for that innings but a definite positive, hopefuly it will give him confidence to start performing all round again. Hes such a flake but potentially a match saver.

It does look like Broad is also going to have to make a big statement though, its really on the seamers to match the West Indies bowlers who made the best of conditions.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Thu 31 Jan 2019, 8:05 pm

Duty281 wrote:187 all out. Whichever way you cut it, I think that's too light. Spirited efforts from Moeen and Bairstow stopped England from being humiliated. Very good, accurate bowling from the Windies seamers, again.

Probably 40-50 short of a decent score, but it’s a competitive one at least unlike in Barbados

Need a couple tonight
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Post by Duty281 Thu 31 Jan 2019, 8:22 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:
Duty281 wrote:187 all out. Whichever way you cut it, I think that's too light. Spirited efforts from Moeen and Bairstow stopped England from being humiliated. Very good, accurate bowling from the Windies seamers, again.

Probably 40-50 short of a decent score, but it’s a competitive one at least unlike in Barbados

Need a couple tonight

Aye, England still in it, but they absolutely need to do damage with the new ball. Broad bowling with raging intensity.

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Post by king_carlos Thu 31 Jan 2019, 8:39 pm

Anderson and Broad bowling extremely well without a breakthrough.

The two of them still work together very well as a partnership.

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Post by Duty281 Thu 31 Jan 2019, 8:47 pm

Campbell somehow surviving despite a multitude of play + misses. The Windies openers doing a job in extremely testing conditions - 10 overs without a wicket.

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Post by VTR Thu 31 Jan 2019, 8:59 pm

England bowling with no luck at all. Somehow that's the opening spell seen off, which could be the start of the Windies taking control of the match

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Post by Gooseberry Thu 31 Jan 2019, 9:02 pm

Who taught the West Indies how to bat in the last few weeks? Its only 2 months since Bangaldesh beat them by and innings and 184.
The openers so far are showing how to see off the new ball against Englands best.

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Post by Duty281 Thu 31 Jan 2019, 9:07 pm

VTR wrote:England bowling with no luck at all. Somehow that's the opening spell seen off, which could be the start of the Windies taking control of the match

Worrying times for England. It became quite placid around the 40-50 over mark for Moeen/Foakes, if the same happens here with the Windies having lots of wickets in hand, then England could be facing a sizeable deficit (again!). I'd also say the bounce is more consistent than earlier in the day.

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Post by JDizzle Thu 31 Jan 2019, 9:19 pm

Nonsense England lose a review for the umpire not doing his job.

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Post by JDizzle Thu 31 Jan 2019, 9:21 pm

JDizzle wrote:Nonsense England lose a review for the umpire not doing his job.

Admittedly was also missing the stumps but still! Very Happy

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Post by El Radar Thu 31 Jan 2019, 9:26 pm

This is where the commentators are a bit silly, Campbell isn't surviving through any skill but being so abject he can't get near the ball.

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Post by alfie Thu 31 Jan 2019, 9:44 pm

JDizzle wrote:Nonsense England lose a review for the umpire not doing his job.

I thought you don't lose the review if it is found to be a no ball - unless they have changed the rule recently ?

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Post by Duty281 Thu 31 Jan 2019, 10:10 pm

Windies strong favourites going into day two. Could be another long, demoralising day in the field for England on Friday.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Thu 31 Jan 2019, 10:52 pm

Didn’t see the final passage of play - seems england bowled well without luck?

Good thing is they’ve kept it tight - so if they can get a breakthrough or two in the morning, they’re right back in the game
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Post by alfie Thu 31 Jan 2019, 11:07 pm

Like Olly , only saw first couple of overs of West Indies batting...must say I expected wickets to fall early. Indeed it seems Lady Luck was with the hosts today.
Problem for England will be if they don't get a good start tomorrow their morale is going to be severely tested (must be fragile anyway after Barbados) . The attack looks better balanced this time ; but they have work to do after that poor first innings score. ( I concede the pitch was horrible - Root got an impossible ball , for one. But if Bairstow , Foakes , and the much-maligned Moeen could score on it I would have thought the others might have contributed a few more ? Looks a little under par to me)
West Indies will , by contrast , be full of confidence. They'll feel if they can make a fist of the first session tomorrow they can set up a big lead - and be well on their way to 2-0.

Big first session on Friday.

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Post by JDizzle Thu 31 Jan 2019, 11:09 pm

alfie wrote:
JDizzle wrote:Nonsense England lose a review for the umpire not doing his job.

I thought you don't lose the review if it is found to be a no ball  - unless they have changed the rule recently ?

3.6.6 Where, following a request for a Player Review, the original on-field decision of Not out is unchanged on account of the delivery being a No ball (for any reason), thereby not requiring any further evaluation, the Player Review shall not be counted as ‘Unsuccessful’ and accordingly shall not count towards the innings limit set out in paragraph 3.6.1.

You are quite correct - it flashed up on the screen as Review Unsuccessful, so I presumed it meant it was lost a obviously not!

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Post by JDizzle Thu 31 Jan 2019, 11:16 pm

I felt England bowled a touch short. They could have been more aggressive but then you risk the Windies getting away to 60/70 runs tonight and not really getting another crack tomorrow. There were numerous plays and misses, but no real chances though, so they need to go a touch fuller and pray tomorrow as they need wickets fast.

Of course the only real news is Campbell tried to Dilscoop Broad in the 10th over of a Test Match and it was tremendous.

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Post by guildfordbat Thu 31 Jan 2019, 11:25 pm

JDizzle wrote:I felt England bowled a touch short. They could have been more aggressive but then you risk the Windies getting away to 60/70 runs tonight and not really getting another crack tomorrow. There were numerous plays and misses, but no real chances though, so they need to go a touch fuller and pray tomorrow as they need wickets fast.

Of course the only real news is Campbell tried to Dilscoop Broad in the 10th over of a Test Match and it was tremendous.

Willis was saying tonight that if England lose the first session tomorrow, they lose the series. He does go for the hard hitting quick comment rather than detailed analysis but I tend to think he's right on that.

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Post by Duty281 Thu 31 Jan 2019, 11:54 pm

Yeah, no real chances, but it felt as though Campbell played and missed hundreds of times. Some of his swings made me think that he would be better suited to a golf course than a cricket ground.

Day three is often referred to as 'moving day', but if the West Indies bat through day two, they will be about 120-200 ahead and the series will be effectively done and dusted. And what a damaging defeat it would be for English test cricket, with the Ashes and a trip to South Africa coming up.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Fri 01 Feb 2019, 12:07 am

Speaking of the ashes, I’m watching some twelve tear old Sri Lankan seamers year through their top order

Anybody with day four/five tickets for any ashes tests should probably just return them for a refund now...
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Post by alfie Fri 01 Feb 2019, 4:32 am

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Speaking of the ashes, I’m watching some twelve tear old Sri Lankan seamers year through their top order

Anybody with day four/five tickets for any ashes tests should probably just return them for a refund now...

Well yes - but Head and Burns have now put on about 200 . Even so , you are correct , I think , that both teams are likely to be a bit iffy with the bat in August...

Watched Khawaja get out ? Has he been taking lessons from Jennings ?

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler Fri 01 Feb 2019, 6:30 am

Well, Mo needed runs and he was one of two (although Foakes was so unlucky) to get them. They were really not too bothered about the bad luck for Foakes on the highlights I watched. Sure, he was through early, but it was so unlucky to bounce twice to get the wicket.

Denly seemed to suffer from the England tactic of "go in and just try and hit everything" - the great entertainers. Sympathy for Root, brutal delivery and great stuff in the slips. Buttler's wicket is both annoying but acceptable cos the pitch was a silly billy.

Bairstow and Mo played well.

All in all, least Mo isn't dead and Bairstow isn't overawed at three. Positives, I guess. Why did Bairstow take the gloves?

And as the BBC talks about how well the Windies opened, it did feel England were getting to them.

Highlight for all cricket, my favourite thing I've seen, is that Windies opener trying to scoop/flick/whatever Broad over his shoulder and just getting a smack in the face. Tit

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Post by Gooseberry Fri 01 Feb 2019, 10:28 am

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:

Highlight for all cricket, my favourite thing I've seen, is that Windies opener trying to scoop/flick/whatever Broad over his shoulder and just getting a smack in the face. Tit

Love it Very Happy

The luck does seem to have turned against England in this series, I guess you really do make your own. Or maybe its that those things like winning the toss or getting a lucky reprieve can shift the mental balance of a game. It has turned some bad play into a disaster, even when bowling well they've somehow come up wicketless and lost the new ball. Hitting Campbell in the face was one thing but another day he couldve been caught off an edge trying that shot.

I do think they had the rub in the last two series, they certainly haven't in this one. Its no excuse though, they've batted appallingly and only two players bowled well in the first test.

I can only assume that Foakes has a niggle (did he get hit on the had at all? ) from batting if Bairstow hs the gloves. That is a worry.

The glimmers for England are Moeen finding some level of confidence again, Broad getting fired back up, and Bairstow making a case that he might be viable at 3 after all.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Fri 01 Feb 2019, 10:31 am

Foakes got hit on the hand for his dismissal, they were saying last night they hoped it was just bruising - guess we'll find out more today
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Post by Gooseberry Fri 01 Feb 2019, 11:49 am

I hope Bairstow is keeping his smirks to himself over that then!

If it is anything serious enough to keep Foakes out of the next test it leaves England in a bit of a pickle regarding batsmen, their only squad option is going back to the dropped Jennings....or just going back to 6 bowlers and recalling Woakes.

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Post by VTR Fri 01 Feb 2019, 1:34 pm

The series could be gone today, which could easily happen and still leave 2004 as an aberration. Thinking back to that series, England won with a generally tall and fast pace combination, and the likes of Hussain, Butcher and Thorpe toughing it out with the bat. Maybe England just aren't equipped to well to win over there

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Fri 01 Feb 2019, 1:43 pm

Quietly confident England are going to have a good day today...fancy them to be batting again by tea...
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Fri 01 Feb 2019, 1:48 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Foakes got hit on the hand for his dismissal, they were saying last night they hoped it was just bruising - guess we'll find out more today

England have confirmed Bairstow will keep again today, as Foakes goes off for an x-ray to assess the damage to his hand. That doesn't sound too promising for Foakes's prospects for the rest of the test/series...a blow for England
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Post by Duty281 Fri 01 Feb 2019, 1:58 pm

VTR wrote:The series could be gone today, which could easily happen and still leave 2004 as an aberration. Thinking back to that series, England won with a generally tall and fast pace combination, and the likes of Hussain, Butcher and Thorpe toughing it out with the bat. Maybe England just aren't equipped to well to win over there

Ah what a bowling attack that was. Harmison (at his best), Hoggard, Jones, Freddie and the King of Spain.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Fri 01 Feb 2019, 2:04 pm

England's luck continues to evade them, as Brathwaite clips a ball into the legside which falls just in front of the diving Jennings...
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Fri 01 Feb 2019, 2:12 pm

And now what looks like a definite glove to first slip for Campbell, is just off the forearm and not out - no luck again...
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Post by alfie Fri 01 Feb 2019, 2:13 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:England's luck continues to evade them, as Brathwaite clips a ball into the legside which falls just in front of the diving Jennings...

...and now drs saves Campbell after he's apparently caught at slip : but it came off the elbow clearly enough.

Broad posing some problems though. Just need a break...

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Post by Duty281 Fri 01 Feb 2019, 2:15 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:And now what looks like a definite glove to first slip for Campbell, is just off the forearm and not out - no luck again...

Based on the first fifteen minutes, it's going to be one of those days.

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Post by VTR Fri 01 Feb 2019, 2:19 pm

This has to be the luckiest opening partnership in Test history!

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Post by alfie Fri 01 Feb 2019, 2:19 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:
Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Foakes got hit on the hand for his dismissal, they were saying last night they hoped it was just bruising - guess we'll find out more today

England have confirmed Bairstow will keep again today, as Foakes goes off for an x-ray to assess the damage to his hand. That doesn't sound too promising for Foakes's prospects for the rest of the test/series...a blow for England

Being the keeper seems to be a bit of an injury curse for England lately. Maybe just as well they have about five of them in the squad Smile

Hope the X-ray doesn't show too much damage. These are important games for Foakes as England seek some balance in their team. Plus the batting reserves are slender to say the least...

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Fri 01 Feb 2019, 2:20 pm

VTR wrote:This has to be the luckiest opening partnership in Test history!

Campbell going with the same tactic I play with when opening the batting - swing, knowing you're not good enough to nick the good balls Very Happy
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Post by alfie Fri 01 Feb 2019, 2:21 pm

Damn. Broad bowling beautifully...but Buttler drops a sitter !

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Post by Duty281 Fri 01 Feb 2019, 2:21 pm

Oh dear, now a simple catch is shelled. Somehow, still no wickets.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Fri 01 Feb 2019, 2:21 pm

Oh Jos...
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Fri 01 Feb 2019, 2:23 pm

Fair to say Mr Broad isn't best pleased with how these first twenty minutes have gone...
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Post by alfie Fri 01 Feb 2019, 2:26 pm

Hopefully these openers are using up all the team's luck ? One may well bring two or three quickly - lord knows they need them !

Broad is muttering to himself...can't say I blame him...

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Fri 01 Feb 2019, 2:29 pm

alfie wrote:Hopefully these openers are using up all the team's luck ?  One may well bring two or three quickly - lord knows they need them !

Broad is muttering to himself...can't say I blame him...

Tough enough to take 10 wickets in an innings...let alone 13/14 to actually get those 10...
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Post by Duty281 Fri 01 Feb 2019, 2:31 pm

Don't know what the biggest mystery is: that Campbell's lasted 97 balls (and counting) or that Broad has bowled 11 overs without getting a wicket.

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Post by Duty281 Fri 01 Feb 2019, 2:36 pm

This is ridiculous. A top-edge from Campbell loops up and falls between two scrambling fielders. Approaching a full-house of reprieves now.

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Post by alfie Fri 01 Feb 2019, 2:37 pm

England need to stay calm and persist. I suppose as the ball gets older batting might become easier ; but you'd think there will be enough in this pitch all day to interest the bowlers.

Now Campbell skies an edge and it falls just out of reach between Bairstow and Rashid ! Hope he's bought his lottery tickets this morning...

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Fri 01 Feb 2019, 2:41 pm

As ever - better to be lucky than good!
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Post by alfie Fri 01 Feb 2019, 2:44 pm

It hasn't been happening for Jimmy this morning. Possibly that end isn't doing as much ; but in any case I'd get him off now and try a bit of Big Ben. Ah , here he is in place of the unlucky Broad.

Juggling his bowlers will be an issue for Root today. Might need a bit from Moeen at some point too : reckon he might actually get some spin on this.

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Post by VTR Fri 01 Feb 2019, 2:49 pm

This just ain't happening. We'll probably lose by an innings now. Can't be arsed following it anymore

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Post by Duty281 Fri 01 Feb 2019, 2:52 pm

At last.

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