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Post by JuliusHMarx on Fri 23 Nov 2018, 12:39 pm

First topic message reminder :

Thread Split! Culture Cup Rules!

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Post by JuliusHMarx on Mon 27 May 2019, 12:25 pm

Why? Surely you don't think all Leavers want the same type of Brexit?

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Post by dummy_half on Mon 27 May 2019, 12:32 pm

So the big question is what does this result mean for Labour and Corbyn? Obviously his attempts at fence sitting re Brexit have proven that you can't be all things to all men on such a binary issue. Could we actually see a move back to a centre-left Labour party (more a John Smith party than an Blair/Brown one) before the next election?

Clearly the Conservatives are going to select a full-on Brexiteer for their next leader (Raab's name keeps coming up as the 'not Boris' option), which should bring back many of the BP voters, but does that then lead to defections from the centrists and so a loss of any functional majority even with DUP support?

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Post by Duty281 on Mon 27 May 2019, 12:37 pm

JuliusHMarx wrote:Why? Surely you don't think all Leavers want the same type of Brexit?

Because that's the way this silliness is being framed.

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Post by Duty281 on Mon 27 May 2019, 12:40 pm

dummy_half wrote:So the big question is what does this result mean for Labour and Corbyn? Obviously his attempts at fence sitting re Brexit have proven that you can't be all things to all men on such a binary issue. Could we actually see a move back to a centre-left Labour party (more a John Smith party than an Blair/Brown one) before the next election?

Clearly the Conservatives are going to select a full-on Brexiteer for their next leader (Raab's name keeps coming up as the 'not Boris' option), which should bring back many of the BP voters, but does that then lead to defections from the centrists and so a loss of any functional majority even with DUP support?

The Tories don't have any 'full on Brexiteers' standing for leader.

Corbyn needs to resign, but he's either delusional and thinks he can turn this around, or simply doesn't care about the Labour Party's fortunes.

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Post by JuliusHMarx on Mon 27 May 2019, 12:47 pm

Duty281 wrote:
dummy_half wrote:So the big question is what does this result mean for Labour and Corbyn? Obviously his attempts at fence sitting re Brexit have proven that you can't be all things to all men on such a binary issue. Could we actually see a move back to a centre-left Labour party (more a John Smith party than an Blair/Brown one) before the next election?

Clearly the Conservatives are going to select a full-on Brexiteer for their next leader (Raab's name keeps coming up as the 'not Boris' option), which should bring back many of the BP voters, but does that then lead to defections from the centrists and so a loss of any functional majority even with DUP support?

The Tories don't have any 'full on Brexiteers' standing for leader.

Corbyn needs to resign, but he's either delusional and thinks he can turn this around, or simply doesn't care about the Labour Party's fortunes.

I can't believe there isn't a full-on campaign to get rid of him.

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Post by navyblueshorts on Mon 27 May 2019, 12:55 pm

Duty281 wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:You can find that for yourself, I'm finishing work in a bit. Basically the splatter pattern is completely different to the other recent milkshakings, it's too thick to be a milkshake, there's nothing on the floor around him, and a bloke who owns the shop near where it's alleged to have happened says there's no evidence it did happen.

On the subject of the Brexit Party potentially doing well in a general election, I think you're forgetting what a polarising figure Farage is. He's not the sole reason the country voted (narrowly) to leave three years ago. Plus he's advocating a hard Brexit, which certainly isn't what most people want. It's by no means a given that everyone who voted Leave in 2016 will vote for the Brexit Party - and that's if they still want to leave at all.

1) I imagine it would be. Not every milkshake is thrown from the same distance/angle or with the same velocity.
2) I don't think you could assume that from a picture.
3) That's assuming the picture was taken in exactly the same place as where the incident occurred. And I think the incident happened a few hours before any picture was taken.
4) I saw that on Twitter. He said he had a video that disproved it entirely, then he deleted his account (or it was suspended) when he was asked for it.

Regardless, he isn't a candidate and this wasn't part of the Brexit Party campaign, which was a positive one. If he did fake it, we'll soon know.

I'm aware that Farage is a polarising figure, but his positives far outweigh the negatives. And it's not as though the Brexit Party would ever have to get higher than 40% to do really well at a General Election.
No, they really don't.

As leader of a political party, they absolutely do. He is a phenomenal campaigner, handles the media excellently, wonderfully charismatic and a good communicator. He is chiefly responsible for the Brexit Party's upcoming victory in the European Elections - no other person currently around in British politics could have achieved that.
I know there's some internet law re. citation of this, but Hitler was pretty good at a lot of that. He may be charismatic etc, but he's a p***k and espouses some pretty nasty stuff. Personally, I don't think anything else he does/is outweighs his basic flaws in character.
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Post by navyblueshorts on Mon 27 May 2019, 1:06 pm

JuliusHMarx wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
dummy_half wrote:So the big question is what does this result mean for Labour and Corbyn? Obviously his attempts at fence sitting re Brexit have proven that you can't be all things to all men on such a binary issue. Could we actually see a move back to a centre-left Labour party (more a John Smith party than an Blair/Brown one) before the next election?

Clearly the Conservatives are going to select a full-on Brexiteer for their next leader (Raab's name keeps coming up as the 'not Boris' option), which should bring back many of the BP voters, but does that then lead to defections from the centrists and so a loss of any functional majority even with DUP support?

The Tories don't have any 'full on Brexiteers' standing for leader.

Corbyn needs to resign, but he's either delusional and thinks he can turn this around, or simply doesn't care about the Labour Party's fortunes.

I can't believe there isn't a full-on campaign to get rid of him.
There probably is, but as before, the Unions will ensure their stooge stays at the helm.
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Post by Duty281 on Mon 27 May 2019, 1:19 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:You can find that for yourself, I'm finishing work in a bit. Basically the splatter pattern is completely different to the other recent milkshakings, it's too thick to be a milkshake, there's nothing on the floor around him, and a bloke who owns the shop near where it's alleged to have happened says there's no evidence it did happen.

On the subject of the Brexit Party potentially doing well in a general election, I think you're forgetting what a polarising figure Farage is. He's not the sole reason the country voted (narrowly) to leave three years ago. Plus he's advocating a hard Brexit, which certainly isn't what most people want. It's by no means a given that everyone who voted Leave in 2016 will vote for the Brexit Party - and that's if they still want to leave at all.

1) I imagine it would be. Not every milkshake is thrown from the same distance/angle or with the same velocity.
2) I don't think you could assume that from a picture.
3) That's assuming the picture was taken in exactly the same place as where the incident occurred. And I think the incident happened a few hours before any picture was taken.
4) I saw that on Twitter. He said he had a video that disproved it entirely, then he deleted his account (or it was suspended) when he was asked for it.

Regardless, he isn't a candidate and this wasn't part of the Brexit Party campaign, which was a positive one. If he did fake it, we'll soon know.

I'm aware that Farage is a polarising figure, but his positives far outweigh the negatives. And it's not as though the Brexit Party would ever have to get higher than 40% to do really well at a General Election.
No, they really don't.

As leader of a political party, they absolutely do. He is a phenomenal campaigner, handles the media excellently, wonderfully charismatic and a good communicator. He is chiefly responsible for the Brexit Party's upcoming victory in the European Elections - no other person currently around in British politics could have achieved that.
I know there's some internet law re. citation of this, but Hitler was pretty good at a lot of that. He may be charismatic etc, but he's a p***k and espouses some pretty nasty stuff. Personally, I don't think anything else he does/is outweighs his basic flaws in character.

Yes, a lot of political leaders are good at those things, like Hitler or Blair or Thatcher or Churchill.

I'll reiterate that the original point has nothing to do with Nigel's character, merely what he brings as a political figure to the Brexit Party. I don't think the Brexit Party would have won last night if, say, Galloway or Widdecombe or Rees Mogg's sister were leading them.

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Post by Samo on Mon 27 May 2019, 1:42 pm

Duty281 wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:You can find that for yourself, I'm finishing work in a bit. Basically the splatter pattern is completely different to the other recent milkshakings, it's too thick to be a milkshake, there's nothing on the floor around him, and a bloke who owns the shop near where it's alleged to have happened says there's no evidence it did happen.

On the subject of the Brexit Party potentially doing well in a general election, I think you're forgetting what a polarising figure Farage is. He's not the sole reason the country voted (narrowly) to leave three years ago. Plus he's advocating a hard Brexit, which certainly isn't what most people want. It's by no means a given that everyone who voted Leave in 2016 will vote for the Brexit Party - and that's if they still want to leave at all.

1) I imagine it would be. Not every milkshake is thrown from the same distance/angle or with the same velocity.
2) I don't think you could assume that from a picture.
3) That's assuming the picture was taken in exactly the same place as where the incident occurred. And I think the incident happened a few hours before any picture was taken.
4) I saw that on Twitter. He said he had a video that disproved it entirely, then he deleted his account (or it was suspended) when he was asked for it.

Regardless, he isn't a candidate and this wasn't part of the Brexit Party campaign, which was a positive one. If he did fake it, we'll soon know.

I'm aware that Farage is a polarising figure, but his positives far outweigh the negatives. And it's not as though the Brexit Party would ever have to get higher than 40% to do really well at a General Election.
No, they really don't.

As leader of a political party, they absolutely do. He is a phenomenal campaigner, handles the media excellently, wonderfully charismatic and a good communicator. He is chiefly responsible for the Brexit Party's upcoming victory in the European Elections - no other person currently around in British politics could have achieved that.
I know there's some internet law re. citation of this, but Hitler was pretty good at a lot of that. He may be charismatic etc, but he's a p***k and espouses some pretty nasty stuff. Personally, I don't think anything else he does/is outweighs his basic flaws in character.

Yes, a lot of political leaders are good at those things, like Hitler or Blair or Thatcher or Churchill.

I'll reiterate that the original point has nothing to do with Nigel's character, merely what he brings as a political figure to the Brexit Party. I don't think the Brexit Party would have won last night if, say, Galloway or Widdecombe or Rees Mogg's sister were leading them.

Then how can you argue its a vote for Brexit and not a vote for Farage? UKIP were wiped out and TBP picked up those seats and a handful more, so voters just follow Nigel. Its hardly the seismic shift people are making it out to be.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Mon 27 May 2019, 2:00 pm

So the Euros tell us that the UK is as divided on Brexit as it ever was...

It is a shame that there seems to be no foreseeable end in sight as Right wingers...Guardianistas and loony lefties neglect other things crippling the People..

Inadequate Social care.....14m workers struggling with ends meet and a School system not fit for purpose..

Think the People both here and for different reasons in the US don't deserve this absolute shambles of journalistic and Political discourse...

Crying Shame..


Last edited by TRUSSMAN66 on Mon 27 May 2019, 2:02 pm; edited 2 times in total

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Post by navyblueshorts on Mon 27 May 2019, 2:01 pm

Actually, thinking about the outcome last night, I don't think it does anything. We're still up the creek without a paddle. No party/group of parties either for, or against, Brexit can say they totalled >50%.

In most cases, local or European elections are worthless. No-one has a clue what their local MP, Councillors, MEPs actually do (or have actually done) for them. Not a clue. None of the candidates for any of the above put themselves up for any scrutiny running in to an election.
Maybe it's just where I am (however, I sincerely doubt it), but there's no literature, no hustings, no campaigning, no nothing leading in to any election. A complete and utter waste of ****ing time. The only thing some are aware of is national issues, and even then it's all soundbites and a level of debate that's, in the main, childish.

The only conclusion I can see from this is that our politics are completely and utterly FUBAR. Our system will take years and years to fix.
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Post by navyblueshorts on Mon 27 May 2019, 2:02 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:So the Euros tell us that the UK is as divided on Brexit as it ever was...

It is a shame that there seems to be no foreseeable end in sight as Right wingers...Guardianistas and loony lefties neglect other things crippling the People..

Inadequate Social care.....14m workers struggling with ends meat and a School system not fit for purpose..

Think the People both here and for different reasons in the US don't deserve this absolute shambles of journalistic and Political discourse...

Crying Shame..
OK
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Post by Duty281 on Mon 27 May 2019, 2:10 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:Maybe it's just where I am (however, I sincerely doubt it), but there's no literature, no hustings, no campaigning, no nothing leading in to any election. A complete and utter waste of ****ing time. The only thing some are aware of is national issues, and even then it's all soundbites and a level of debate that's, in the main, childish.

How odd. I've lived in Cornwall and West Yorkshire in the past few years and never had any shortage of this kind of thing for elections. For this lot of European Elections, I've had at least one leaflet from all the major parties (some sent two), and had the local Labour MP, a Green, and a Lib Dem knock on the door. There were a couple of hustings near where I live, but these events are so badly-run there's little point in going.

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Post by Pr4wn on Mon 27 May 2019, 2:28 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:Maybe it's just where I am (however, I sincerely doubt it), but there's no literature, no hustings, no campaigning, no nothing leading in to any election. A complete and utter waste of ****ing time. The only thing some are aware of is national issues, and even then it's all soundbites and a level of debate that's, in the main, childish.

That's nothing, mate. The Brexit party don't even have policies.

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Post by dummy_half on Tue 28 May 2019, 10:58 am

NBS

This Euro election was always going to be a shambles - arranged at a few weeks notice to elect MEPs who may very well no longer be employed in 6 months. As such it was inevitable that there was minimal discussion of policies, and the election becoming a proxy second referendum.

As noted though, based on the 37% of the electorate that participated, we're as divided as ever.

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Post by Pr4wn on Tue 28 May 2019, 11:05 am

Remain out-voted leave, though.

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Post by Duty281 on Tue 28 May 2019, 11:26 am

dummy_half wrote:NBS

This Euro election was always going to be a shambles - arranged at a few weeks notice to elect MEPs who may very well no longer be employed in 6 months. As such it was inevitable that there was minimal discussion of policies, and the election becoming a proxy second referendum.

As noted though, based on the 37% of the electorate that participated, we're as divided as ever.

Policies are rarely talked about for European Elections, because the European Parliament isn't an executive body.

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Post by Duty281 on Tue 28 May 2019, 11:31 am

Pr4wn wrote:Remain out-voted leave, though.

False.

BP + UKIP + DUP + Tories = just over 44%.
LD + Green + SNP + Plaid + Change = around 40%.

You could reasonably put Labour in the first camp, as their European manifesto want to honour the referendum result, thus putting Leave on 58%. These results come in spite of more 2016 Remain voters turning out than 2016 Leave voters (as confirmed by turnout figures and Lord Ashcroft's post-vote poll).

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Post by GSC on Tue 28 May 2019, 12:14 pm

That poll also suggested 33% of Brexit party voters dont support no deal  Doh
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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Tue 28 May 2019, 12:29 pm

Pr4wn wrote:Remain out-voted leave, though.

It depends on what way you slant. Some will claim they know what the Conservatives are clear on, some will do the same for Labour.

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Post by Duty281 on Tue 28 May 2019, 12:31 pm

GSC wrote:That poll also suggested 33% of Brexit party voters dont support no deal  Doh

Steady. 67% of Brexit Party voters said the best outcome would be 'no deal', 23% said the best outcome would be a deal better than that which Theresa negotiated. That doesn't mean 33% don't support no-deal, they just don't think it's the best outcome possible.

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Post by Duty281 on Tue 28 May 2019, 12:36 pm

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:
Pr4wn wrote:Remain out-voted leave, though.

It depends on what way you slant. Some will claim they know what the Conservatives are clear on, some will do the same for Labour.

Well the Tory party slogan for the 2019 European Elections was: "Getting Brexit Done in the National Interest" - followed by further lines about 'Leaving with a deal as soon as possible'/'Taking control of our borders, money and our laws'/'Other parties won't deliver Brexit'.

I don't think they could have been clearer!

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Post by superflyweight on Tue 28 May 2019, 12:39 pm

Duty281 wrote:
Pr4wn wrote:Remain out-voted leave, though.

False.

BP + UKIP + DUP + Tories = just over 44%.
LD + Green + SNP + Plaid + Change = around 40%.

You could reasonably put Labour in the first camp, as their European manifesto want to honour the referendum result, thus putting Leave on 58%. These results come in spite of more 2016 Remain voters turning out than 2016 Leave voters (as confirmed by turnout figures and Lord Ashcroft's post-vote poll).

If I'm being generous and not too critical, I'd suggest that you're being overly simplistic and selective.

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Tue 28 May 2019, 12:51 pm

I see Alastair Campbell has been expelled from the Labour Party. Corbyn has been able to make Alastair Campbell a sympathetic figure, which is impressive.

He is set to appeal, and it has certainly shone light on the way antisemitism has been dealt with in contrast. Some sharp tweets highlighted on the Guardian.

Neil Coyle
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In the midst of the EHRC announcing the formal investigation into Labour's failure to tackle long-standing allegations of antisemitism, abuse & bullying, the Party has it seems shown swiftness in suspension is poss re Campbell. Further proof the investigation is needed sadly.

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So it takes 5 days for Labour to expel @campbellclaret but almost 3 years to expel prolific antisemite Jackie Walker. This is why the EHRC are investigating...

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The @EHRC are using their powers under the Equality Act to open a formal investigation into @UKLabour.
For anyone who might look to play this down, the threshold to initiate this process is extremely high. That the Labour Party has even met the evidenciary threshold is damning.

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Post by Samo on Tue 28 May 2019, 1:15 pm

But Kate Hoey is still a Labour MP...

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Post by Duty281 on Tue 28 May 2019, 1:40 pm

Meanwhile, the Tory leadership race is up to 11 contenders.

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Post by Pr4wn on Tue 28 May 2019, 2:37 pm

Duty281 wrote:
Pr4wn wrote:Remain out-voted leave, though.

False.

BP + UKIP + DUP + Tories = just over 44%.
LD + Green + SNP + Plaid + Change = around 40%.

You could reasonably put Labour in the first camp, as their European manifesto want to honour the referendum result, thus putting Leave on 58%. These results come in spite of more 2016 Remain voters turning out than 2016 Leave voters (as confirmed by turnout figures and Lord Ashcroft's post-vote poll).

Lib Dem, Green, Scottish National party, Plaid Cymru and Change UK outpolled Brexit and Ukip by 40.4% remain to 34.9% hard Brexit. Now add in Labour and Conservative votes, divided – as pollsters Britain Thinks and YouGov suggest – by allocating 80% of Tory votes to leave, and 60% of Labour votes to remain. That leaves us at about 50% to 47% in favour of remain.

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Post by GSC on Tue 28 May 2019, 2:42 pm

Also the 47% dont even agree what Brexit they want
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Post by Duty281 on Tue 28 May 2019, 3:02 pm

Pr4wn wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
Pr4wn wrote:Remain out-voted leave, though.

False.

BP + UKIP + DUP + Tories = just over 44%.
LD + Green + SNP + Plaid + Change = around 40%.

You could reasonably put Labour in the first camp, as their European manifesto want to honour the referendum result, thus putting Leave on 58%. These results come in spite of more 2016 Remain voters turning out than 2016 Leave voters (as confirmed by turnout figures and Lord Ashcroft's post-vote poll).

Lib Dem, Green, Scottish National party, Plaid Cymru and Change UK outpolled Brexit and Ukip by 40.4% remain to 34.9% hard Brexit. Now add in Labour and Conservative votes, divided – as pollsters Britain Thinks and YouGov suggest – by allocating 80% of Tory votes to leave, and 60% of Labour votes to remain. That leaves us at about 50% to 47% in favour of remain.

If you're to use that logic, you'd also have to include the voters of Green/SNP/Plaid who are also Leave supporters. But we don't. The Tories stood on a pro-Leave platform, so that's where their votes go.

You could also use Lord Ashcroft's post-European Elections poll, which shows that 50% of those who voted in the European Elections currently support Leave and 46% currently support Remain. That's in spite of the fact that, of those same people that were polled, 50% voted to Remain in 2016 and 45% voted to Leave.

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Post by SecretFly on Tue 28 May 2019, 3:18 pm

Ok, so if it's a tight squeeze between Leavers, Remainers and soft Leavers.... when do you have to make a decision? After all, it's taken 3 years to get to this stalemate. Deadlines have come and gone, red lines have been crossed with sneers and ridicule. The BIG climaxes always had another week added with more yawns and gulps of stale bottled water.....
For such a decision supposedly in such a hurry and everyone supposedly bored, to me it looks as though most people secretly love the soap. They're getting attached to it emotionally. And just as you moan about evil characters or bad storylines in your favourite soaps.... it's not that you want the show to end, just that you like groaning about it over a coffee.
Brexit has become an old friend. People secretly love the drama and the angst and the characters it's throwing up.

Why should all that end if there happened to be a new Referendum and the Remain crowd won this time by the same slim margin as the Leavers won last time? The same arguments would just begin again and the same stalling tactics would apply, and the same renegotiation periods and the same resignations. Why would Leavers just turn over and disappear anymore than Remainers did last time. Same logic applies..... "let's have another referendum....best out of three for real fairness"

You're all addicted to the show.

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Post by JuliusHMarx on Tue 28 May 2019, 3:19 pm

SecretFly wrote:Ok, so if it's a tight squeeze between Leavers, Remainers and soft Leavers.... when do you have to make a decision?  After all, it's taken 3 years to get to this stalemate.  Deadlines have come and gone, red lines have been crossed with sneers and ridicule.  The BIG climaxes always had another week added with more yawns and gulps of stale bottled water.....  
For such a decision supposedly in such a hurry and everyone supposedly bored, to me it looks as though most people secretly love the soap.  They're getting attached to it emotionally.  And just as you moan about evil characters or bad storylines in your favourite soaps.... it's not that you want the show to end, just that you like groaning about it over a coffee.
Brexit has become an old friend.  People secretly love the drama and the angst and the characters it's throwing up.

Why should all that end if there happened to be a new Referendum and the Remain crowd won this time by the same slim margin as the Leavers won last time?  The same arguments would just begin again and the same stalling tactics would apply, and the same renegotiation periods and the same resignations.  Why would Leavers just turn over and disappear anymore than Remainers did last time.  Same logic applies..... "let's have another referendum....best out of three for real fairness"

You're all addicted to the show.

And crack cocaine, in my case.

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Post by SecretFly on Tue 28 May 2019, 3:27 pm

... a lot of air miles on crack cocaine. Your local globetrotting Green Party rep will be most displeased.

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Post by JuliusHMarx on Tue 28 May 2019, 3:31 pm

I only buy the locally sourced organic stuff.

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Post by SecretFly on Tue 28 May 2019, 3:33 pm

Good man. Local before Global. We'll get there yet.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Tue 28 May 2019, 8:18 pm

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:I see Alastair Campbell has been expelled from the Labour Party. Corbyn has been able to make Alastair Campbell a sympathetic figure, which is impressive.

He is set to appeal, and it has certainly shone light on the way antisemitism has been dealt with in contrast. Some sharp tweets highlighted on the Guardian.

Neil Coyle
@coyleneil
In the midst of the EHRC announcing the formal investigation into Labour's failure to tackle long-standing allegations of antisemitism, abuse & bullying, the Party has it seems shown swiftness in suspension is poss re Campbell. Further proof the investigation is needed sadly.

Margaret Hodge
@margarethodge
So it takes 5 days for Labour to expel @campbellclaret but almost 3 years to expel prolific antisemite Jackie Walker. This is why the EHRC are investigating...

Luciana Berger
@lucianaberger
The @EHRC are using their powers under the Equality Act to open a formal investigation into @UKLabour.
For anyone who might look to play this down, the threshold to initiate this process is extremely high. That the Labour Party has even met the evidenciary threshold is damning.

All those quotes are from Centrists that hate Corbyn..

It has been found the last GS of Labour sat on lots of AS cases and those three weren't arsed then !!

Not your greatest Post...

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Post by Pr4wn on Wed 29 May 2019, 12:53 am

Duty281 wrote:
Pr4wn wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
Pr4wn wrote:Remain out-voted leave, though.

False.

BP + UKIP + DUP + Tories = just over 44%.
LD + Green + SNP + Plaid + Change = around 40%.

You could reasonably put Labour in the first camp, as their European manifesto want to honour the referendum result, thus putting Leave on 58%. These results come in spite of more 2016 Remain voters turning out than 2016 Leave voters (as confirmed by turnout figures and Lord Ashcroft's post-vote poll).

Lib Dem, Green, Scottish National party, Plaid Cymru and Change UK outpolled Brexit and Ukip by 40.4% remain to 34.9% hard Brexit. Now add in Labour and Conservative votes, divided – as pollsters Britain Thinks and YouGov suggest – by allocating 80% of Tory votes to leave, and 60% of Labour votes to remain. That leaves us at about 50% to 47% in favour of remain.

If you're to use that logic, you'd also have to include the voters of Green/SNP/Plaid who are also Leave supporters. But we don't. The Tories stood on a pro-Leave platform, so that's where their votes go.

You could also use Lord Ashcroft's post-European Elections poll, which shows that 50% of those who voted in the European Elections currently support Leave and 46% currently support Remain. That's in spite of the fact that, of those same people that were polled, 50% voted to Remain in 2016 and 45% voted to Leave.

Even if you were to use your rather arbitrary logic, it's damn close. Extremely close.

Far too close to be just driving off the precipice without consulting the public.

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Wed 29 May 2019, 1:18 am

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
Dolphin Ziggler wrote:I see Alastair Campbell has been expelled from the Labour Party. Corbyn has been able to make Alastair Campbell a sympathetic figure, which is impressive.

He is set to appeal, and it has certainly shone light on the way antisemitism has been dealt with in contrast. Some sharp tweets highlighted on the Guardian.

Neil Coyle
@coyleneil
In the midst of the EHRC announcing the formal investigation into Labour's failure to tackle long-standing allegations of antisemitism, abuse & bullying, the Party has it seems shown swiftness in suspension is poss re Campbell. Further proof the investigation is needed sadly.

Margaret Hodge
@margarethodge
So it takes 5 days for Labour to expel @campbellclaret but almost 3 years to expel prolific antisemite Jackie Walker. This is why the EHRC are investigating...

Luciana Berger
@lucianaberger
The @EHRC are using their powers under the Equality Act to open a formal investigation into @UKLabour.
For anyone who might look to play this down, the threshold to initiate this process is extremely high. That the Labour Party has even met the evidenciary threshold is damning.

All those quotes are from Centrists that hate Corbyn..

It has been found the last GS of Labour sat on lots of AS cases and those three weren't arsed then !!

Not your greatest Post...

They’re also very true. I said interesting, not to scale of the public opinion.

That’s awful and pathetic whataboutery, good to see your President is teaching. Someone else did it is a terrible defence. Some people and their Corbynism are troubling.

One of your usual standard posts, sadly...

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Post by GSC on Wed 29 May 2019, 12:57 pm

I hope Labour are just as quick to act against MPs with a history of ignoring the whip
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Post by SecretFly on Wed 29 May 2019, 1:17 pm

I say ignore the whip! Enough of this slavery submissive bunk. Ignore the whip, gentlemen. Run to freedom!

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Post by Samo on Wed 29 May 2019, 1:22 pm

Johnson to appear in court over the “£350m a week” claim. He faces a charge of ‘misconduct in public office’ which carries a potential sentence of life imprisonment.

I’d frankly be amazed if this goes anywhere. It should, but it wont.

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Post by SecretFly on Wed 29 May 2019, 2:12 pm

Life in prison for a politician misrepresenting facts to better aid his election hopes?


Bigger prisons needed - worldwide and quick.

Now about all this scaremongering about what will happen if the UK leaves.  They all better mind their language in the future and worry about what they claimed in the past. If Boris goes to jail (for life), he won't be alone.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Wed 29 May 2019, 5:44 pm

A guy goes on TV says his Wife left because his Party is full of Anti Semites.....Says the leadership is useless and everyone should vote for someone else and there is hysteria when he gets kicked out ??

Hypocrisy over Campbell is stomach churning...

Heseltine got expelled from the Tories last week for saying he was voting Lib Dem..

No one in the press gave a crap.


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Post by GSC on Wed 29 May 2019, 6:14 pm

I dont think the issue most people are taking from this is that he was kicked out for supporting a different party and was vocal about it.
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Post by navyblueshorts on Wed 29 May 2019, 6:50 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:A guy goes on TV says his Wife left because his Party is full of Anti Semites.....Says the leadership is useless and everyone should vote for someone else and there is hysteria when he gets kicked out ??

Hypocrisy over Campbell is stomach churning...

Heseltine got expelled from the Tories last week for saying he was voting Lib Dem..

No one in the press gave a crap.

Yes, they did. I remember it being reported fine. Heseltine probably doesn't even know what modern media is, so I doubt he made the fuss that Campbell has. You'll have to live with it I'm afraid, but expelling Campbell at the drop of a hat, and not other far more hideous members of the Labour party, is not a good look. Totally in keeping for the pillock that's 'leading' the 'opposition' though.
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Post by Duty281 on Wed 29 May 2019, 6:57 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Heseltine got expelled from the Tories last week for saying he was voting Lib Dem..

No one in the press gave a crap.


I must have imagined the dozens of press articles, the interviews on Radio 4 and 5, and the appearance on Good Morning Britain then.

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian on Thu 30 May 2019, 9:52 am

I caught a bit of Rory Stewart's interview on Sky News this morning - he's really very good. I've heard some people say mockingly that he's very popular among people who don't vote Tory, to which others have said that in the olden days, it was seen as a good thing if your leader could broaden the party's appeal.

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Thu 30 May 2019, 11:02 am

Was he pretending to hold the camera?

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian on Thu 30 May 2019, 11:14 am

I'm sure that's funny but I don't get it!

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Post by SecretFly on Thu 30 May 2019, 11:17 am

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:Was he pretending to hold the camera?

Don't knock it till you try it.  
It's a bit of YOUFF virtue signaling innit?

 "That nerdy bloke is jus like us.... does them selfies and things off the cuff, mate....and surrounded by trees and things too! Proper decent lad, that.  I'll vote for him in the next lechchins for that place with the big clock in the front of it.  Maybe he'll even pick Kim Kardashian as his running mate if we crowd fund him to get his fashion blog up and running"


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Post by Duty281 on Thu 30 May 2019, 11:23 am

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:I'm sure that's funny but I don't get it!

https://metro.co.uk/2019/05/29/tory-leadership-candidate-rory-stewart-admits-pretending-film-9718791/

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