Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

[dynamark]

First topic message reminder :

I think its a done deal -no doubt he will be sat with the owner tonight
Villa should be a big big club remember going to cup semis there but probably need an owner willing to throw in some quick money .
No messing around in football these days from any of the owners.

[JAS]

I for one would rather May take Cameron’s lead and abdicate rather than stumble on in some sort of obstinate stupor thinking she’s fulfilling some sort of sense of duty.

Of course it’s her call and her call alone as some Tories plucked up the courage for about half an hour to table a no confidence motion on her then retreated back into their spineless shells. She’s now in a sense safe until Nov

[navyblueshorts]

If May goes, we get a real Brexiteer. Think that would be better? She's been pretty safe throughout this I reckon. No-one really wants the poisoned chalice and Johnson et al. aren't going to put their pathetic heads about the parapet until after Brexit. Whenever that might be.

[Diggers]

If May goes, we get a real Brexiteer. Think that would be better? She's been pretty safe throughout this I reckon. No-one really wants the poisoned chalice and Johnson et al. aren't going to put their pathetic heads about the parapet until after Brexit. Whenever that might be.

Wouldn't say that was nailed on, I don't see a really hard Brexit consensus amongst the Tories and that certainly isn't the consensus in Parliament. Can anyone predict with any certainty who the next Tory leader would be, maybe Hunt, maybe Rudd, no real front runner.

[dynamark]

We can chew it over as much as we like but essentially we have a parliament that does not represent the ref result and you have to respect their personal opinion/judgement but a referendum is the ultimate democratic vote.Very strange situation the like of which we will probably never see again.My advice is to get on the golf course and switch the phone off

[NedB-H]

Surprised no one has pointed out just how much May overstepped the line last night, even by her standards. It’s one thing to drag the country down by getting a weak government stuck at a policy impasse, that’s happened before and will happen again, although this is a particularly catastrophic example. But last night’s speech was essentially saying “the elected house can’t be trusted, only I will do what the public wants”. That’s completely ripping up how the country has always run itself as a representative democracy. Presenting MPs as the enemy of the people is extremely stupid in regards to how the country will be run once Brexit is finally over, and worse, it’s unbelievably dangerous in a climate where an MP was murdered by someone with a misplaced sense of twisted patriotism less than three years ago. There’s reports of MPs being confronted and attacked while out on the streets of their constituencies today, and of more prominent ones getting police protection over the weekend. Fanning the flames of a situation like this is by far the most reckless and idiotic thing I can ever think of a British PM doing. May is a disgrace.

[pedro]

Ned, you forget that a post Brexit GE was already called on who should lead the country out of the EU. So IMO May has the mandate to do what she does - even if the parliament is not in line with the public or vice versa.

[Diggers]

She didn’t win a GE mandate though, and anyway, at least then, there were other policies on the table other than Brexit.

[NedB-H]

Ned, you forget that a post Brexit GE was already called on who should lead the country out of the EU. So IMO May has the mandate to do what she does - even if the parliament is not in line with the public or vice versa.

That’s not how it works Pedro. We don’t have a presidential system, no one voted for May unless they live in Beaconsfield. They voted for MPs, May stayed as PM because she leads the party with (just) the most seats after the GE. Her mandate for enacting in any policies comes from getting that policy through Parliament; if she can’t do that, she has to either change policy, step down or call a fresh election to try to get herself a sufficient majority in Parliament.

Even in the US, where they do vote directly for a President, the representatives in the two houses have to pass policy through as well. It’s the check on one power hungry person having too much power on their own (not that it’s working too well in the US right now).

[pedro]

I know how it works. My point is that the parliament isn’t in line with the population in EU matters. (Just like in many other countries btw.) When a the result of a referendum has to be implemented you have take care not to have the fox guard the hen house.

[Diggers]

Nobody can agree what leave means, that doesn’t mean May gets to decide single handedly that her definition is the one that has to be taken.

[super_realist]

If May goes, we get a real Brexiteer. Think that would be better? She's been pretty safe throughout this I reckon. No-one really wants the poisoned chalice and Johnson et al. aren't going to put their pathetic heads about the parapet until after Brexit. Whenever that might be.

Wouldn't say that was nailed on, I don't see a really hard Brexit consensus amongst the Tories and that certainly isn't the consensus in Parliament. Can anyone predict with any certainty who the next Tory leader would be, maybe Hunt, maybe Rudd, no real front runner.

You might get Corbyn if there was an election, an actual Brexiteer and a man intent on ruining the economy by turning it into a socialist country. May might be terrible, but Corbyn would be catastrophic.

Gove is currently the bookies favourite followed by Raab and Javid

[super_realist]

My understanding is that Corbyn was told he'd be having a 1 on 1 and got the hump when that turned out not to be the case. Can't say I blame him if he as told one thing and something else happened.
It shouldn't even be a story though, when compared to what May is doing, which is utterly contemptible. She is not listening to anyone, never has, that's patently clear, so what exactly are the opposition parties meant to have done in terms of forming a consensus policy? Its her way or the highway and damn the lot of you. I don't think I've ever hated a person more if I'm completely honest.
I've stopped trying to convince myself I have a clue as to what happens next, it's an utter lottery.
Anyone who voted leave and actually thinks that whatever we might get out of it some distant time in the future justifies this utter humiliation, vitriol and chaos needs sectioning.

What a baby.

Re. your hatred of May. TBH, we know next to nothing about what's actually happening, and that applies to the recent alleged behaviour by Corbyn as well as everything else. I have little to no respect for any of them any more. Dogmatic morons and pipsqueak politicians across the board. Run a Country? They can't run a bath. Agree, pretty much, with the last sentence though.

.

I'd be amazed if you'd never got heated over a situation regarding a meeting, know I have.
Confused as to what you think it is we don't know in regard to May. Seems perfectly obvious to me. She's running down the clock. She is refusing to take any advice. This information comes from her cabinet, her MP's and all the opposition parties. Struggling to see any confusion with that. She drew the red lines. She won't move on them. She was also, quite possibly, the most divisive Home Secretary in History, she was utterly useless. I posted on here when she came to power that her style of management, as demonstrated by here actions as HS, would lead to a shocking Brexit, has to be said that she has exceeded my expectations.

Of course people get heated over meetings, but they usually have to have them in the first place, and not run out like a spoiled brat before they've even occurred. In terms of leaders, I don't think there's been a bigger c**t as a leader of any mainstream party for decades than Corbyn. How can Labour actually support this utter tool?

He's supposed to be big enough to overlook what he sees as a personal sleight and actually conduct the meeting to REPRESENT HIS PARTY. Navy is right, he's a baby, in fact he's worse, he's behaving like a MILLENNIAL which is far far worse.

[JAS]

If May goes, we get a real Brexiteer. Think that would be better? She's been pretty safe throughout this I reckon. No-one really wants the poisoned chalice and Johnson et al. aren't going to put their pathetic heads about the parapet until after Brexit. Whenever that might be.

Wouldn't say that was nailed on, I don't see a really hard Brexit consensus amongst the Tories and that certainly isn't the consensus in Parliament. Can anyone predict with any certainty who the next Tory leader would be, maybe Hunt, maybe Rudd, no real front runner.

You might get Corbyn if there was an election, an actual Brexiteer and a man intent on ruining the economy by turning it into a socialist country. May might be terrible, but Corbyn would be catastrophic.

Gove is currently the bookies favourite followed by Raab and Javid

Can you be perhaps a wee bit more specific on the “intent” to ruin the economy. Easy glib statement to make which suggests you’ve read the last manifesto inside out and understand the financial implications of every aspect of their proposed program? No?? Oh silly me you’re indulging in Daily Mail like speculation. Where’s the hard evidence that a Corbyn Govt would be catastrophic? Was that said before Attlee came to power or to a point Wilson came to power (no point in mentioning Blair as he wasn’t a Socialist).
Actually Super, given your prediction prowess as demonstrated on these boards, you saying Corbyn would be a catastrophe pretty much amounts to a positive endorsement :-p

[Diggers]

If May goes, we get a real Brexiteer. Think that would be better? She's been pretty safe throughout this I reckon. No-one really wants the poisoned chalice and Johnson et al. aren't going to put their pathetic heads about the parapet until after Brexit. Whenever that might be.

Wouldn't say that was nailed on, I don't see a really hard Brexit consensus amongst the Tories and that certainly isn't the consensus in Parliament. Can anyone predict with any certainty who the next Tory leader would be, maybe Hunt, maybe Rudd, no real front runner.

You might get Corbyn if there was an election, an actual Brexiteer and a man intent on ruining the economy by turning it into a socialist country. May might be terrible, but Corbyn would be catastrophic.

Gove is currently the bookies favourite followed by Raab and Javid

Can you be perhaps a wee bit more specific on the “intent” to ruin the economy. Easy glib statement to make which suggests you’ve read the last manifesto inside out and understand the financial implications of every aspect of their proposed program? No?? Oh silly me you’re indulging in Daily Mail like speculation. Where’s the hard evidence that a Corbyn Govt would be catastrophic? Was that said before Attlee came to power or to a point Wilson came to power (no point in mentioning Blair as he wasn’t a Socialist).

Super, as usual light on ideology and utter lacking in actual policy details. It's funny, because Super laid out once what he would do now after the referendum, he said he'd rather remain but if we leave he'd want to remain in a single market and customs union. So, the biggest issue in politics, and Supers solution is exactly the one proposed by Corbyn.

[JAS]

If May goes, we get a real Brexiteer. Think that would be better? She's been pretty safe throughout this I reckon. No-one really wants the poisoned chalice and Johnson et al. aren't going to put their pathetic heads about the parapet until after Brexit. Whenever that might be.

Wouldn't say that was nailed on, I don't see a really hard Brexit consensus amongst the Tories and that certainly isn't the consensus in Parliament. Can anyone predict with any certainty who the next Tory leader would be, maybe Hunt, maybe Rudd, no real front runner.

You might get Corbyn if there was an election, an actual Brexiteer and a man intent on ruining the economy by turning it into a socialist country. May might be terrible, but Corbyn would be catastrophic.

Gove is currently the bookies favourite followed by Raab and Javid

Can you be perhaps a wee bit more specific on the “intent” to ruin the economy. Easy glib statement to make which suggests you’ve read the last manifesto inside out and understand the financial implications of every aspect of their proposed program? No?? Oh silly me you’re indulging in Daily Mail like speculation. Where’s the hard evidence that a Corbyn Govt would be catastrophic? Was that said before Attlee came to power or to a point Wilson came to power (no point in mentioning Blair as he wasn’t a Socialist).

Super, as usual light on ideology and utter lacking in actual policy details. It's funny, because Super laid out once what he would do now after the referendum, he said he'd rather remain but if we leave he'd want to remain in a single market and customs union. So, the biggest issue in politics, and Supers solution is exactly the one proposed by Corbyn.

Maybe Super’s just annoyed at Corbyn for stealing his ideas :-p

[McLaren]

we (royal we I assume) know next to nothing about what's actually happening, and that applies to the recent alleged behaviour by Corbyn as well as everything else. I have little to no respect for any of them any more. Dogmatic morons and pipsqueak politicians across the board. Run a Country? They can't run a bath. Agree, pretty much, with the last sentence though.

I would love to know why most of the country just seems to have forgotten or dismissed the fact she engineered the windrush deportations? Possibly the most openly racist policy carried out by a UK party in decades.

Engineered? As in deliberately, and in full advance knowledge of the consequences to that specific group? Don't be absurd.

Yes deliberately. For someone who earlier in the thread admitted to not being able to work out what politicians were up to why are you so adamant this is an absurd accusation?

In terms of leaders, I don't think there's been a bigger c**t as a leader of any mainstream party for decades than Corbyn.

May
Blair
Duncan Smith

Gove is currently the bookies favourite followed by Raab and Javid

Who would you like to see lead the Tory party?

[Diggers]

Bookies favorite is a bit of a joke for this decision, it's like the bookies trying to predict the Brexit outcome. Far too many imponderables to create a useful algorithm. If Gove did become PM he would certainly instantly be up there as one of the biggest cnuts to rule a country, single handedly undid the good in one of the areas in which New Labour made some change for the better, education. He was made to look so weak after the referendum result, I think that would come back to light if he did run, but who knows.

[McLaren]

Diggers

Adam Johnson is out, will he be welcomed back into the Sunderland team?

If Ched Evans can play again then why not Johnson!

[navyblueshorts]

Diggers

Adam Johnson is out, will he be welcomed back into the Sunderland team?

If Ched Evans can play again then why not Johnson!  

[Diggers]

Well, normally the thought would repulse me...but we do have 9 games to play in April...

[JAS]

Bookies favorite is a bit of a joke for this decision, it's like the bookies trying to predict the Brexit outcome. Far too many imponderables to create a useful algorithm.  If Gove did become PM he would certainly instantly be up there as one of the biggest cnuts to rule a country, single handedly undid the good in one of the areas in which New Labour made some change for the better, education. He was made to look so weak after the referendum result, I think that would come back to light if he did run, but who knows.

My partner is actually a normally calm placid Tory voting (I’m working on it) Head teacher and any mention of Gove illicits an instant vitriolic verbal tirade. So...go 1922 Committee, promote Gove as your chosen one...please!!!

[McLaren]

Is she one of those kinky right wingers?

[super_realist]

If May goes, we get a real Brexiteer. Think that would be better? She's been pretty safe throughout this I reckon. No-one really wants the poisoned chalice and Johnson et al. aren't going to put their pathetic heads about the parapet until after Brexit. Whenever that might be.

Wouldn't say that was nailed on, I don't see a really hard Brexit consensus amongst the Tories and that certainly isn't the consensus in Parliament. Can anyone predict with any certainty who the next Tory leader would be, maybe Hunt, maybe Rudd, no real front runner.

You might get Corbyn if there was an election, an actual Brexiteer and a man intent on ruining the economy by turning it into a socialist country. May might be terrible, but Corbyn would be catastrophic.

Gove is currently the bookies favourite followed by Raab and Javid

Can you be perhaps a wee bit more specific on the “intent” to ruin the economy. Easy glib statement to make which suggests you’ve read the last manifesto inside out and understand the financial implications of every aspect of their proposed program? No?? Oh silly me you’re indulging in Daily Mail like speculation. Where’s the hard evidence that a Corbyn Govt would be catastrophic? Was that said before Attlee came to power or to a point Wilson came to power (no point in mentioning Blair as he wasn’t a Socialist).

Super, as usual light on ideology and utter lacking in actual policy details. It's funny, because Super laid out once what he would do now after the referendum, he said he'd rather remain but if we leave he'd want to remain in a single market and customs union. So, the biggest issue in politics, and Supers solution is exactly the one proposed by Corbyn.

I would have thought it very plain Diggers, not requiring too many details. Anyone who is intent on turning a country into a Socialist country as Corbyn and his vascillating merde of a Chancellor would like, does not have economic health at the fore of their agenda. There has never been a country under socialism anywhere in the world in terms that Corbyn would like which has ever been financially strong. (Don't mention Norway or Denmark, they're not Socialist)

Corbyn and McDonnell probably think they can set up trade deals with ISIS, Hamas, IRA, ETA, Taliban etc. That's the sort of people they like talking to after all.

[Diggers]

If May goes, we get a real Brexiteer. Think that would be better? She's been pretty safe throughout this I reckon. No-one really wants the poisoned chalice and Johnson et al. aren't going to put their pathetic heads about the parapet until after Brexit. Whenever that might be.

Wouldn't say that was nailed on, I don't see a really hard Brexit consensus amongst the Tories and that certainly isn't the consensus in Parliament. Can anyone predict with any certainty who the next Tory leader would be, maybe Hunt, maybe Rudd, no real front runner.

You might get Corbyn if there was an election, an actual Brexiteer and a man intent on ruining the economy by turning it into a socialist country. May might be terrible, but Corbyn would be catastrophic.

Gove is currently the bookies favourite followed by Raab and Javid

Can you be perhaps a wee bit more specific on the “intent” to ruin the economy. Easy glib statement to make which suggests you’ve read the last manifesto inside out and understand the financial implications of every aspect of their proposed program? No?? Oh silly me you’re indulging in Daily Mail like speculation. Where’s the hard evidence that a Corbyn Govt would be catastrophic? Was that said before Attlee came to power or to a point Wilson came to power (no point in mentioning Blair as he wasn’t a Socialist).

Super, as usual light on ideology and utter lacking in actual policy details. It's funny, because Super laid out once what he would do now after the referendum, he said he'd rather remain but if we leave he'd want to remain in a single market and customs union. So, the biggest issue in politics, and Supers solution is exactly the one proposed by Corbyn.

I would have thought it very plain Diggers, not requiring too many details. Anyone who is intent on turning a country into a Socialist country as Corbyn and his vascillating merde of a Chancellor would like, does not have economic health at the fore of their agenda. There has never been a country under socialism anywhere in the world in terms that Corbyn would like which has ever been financially strong. (Don't mention Norway or Denmark, they're not Socialist)

Corbyn and McDonnell probably think they can set up trade deals with ISIS, Hamas, IRA, ETA, Taliban etc. That's the sort of people they like talking to after all.

Is it just that socialism includes the word social? And you hate people so that’s a problem?
What specific socialist policies does this Labour Party have that you think won’t work?
Are you happy that you and JC agree on Brexit?

[Diggers]

By the way, Norway and Sweden, are they Socialist? Depends how you define socialism. Depends how you define capitalism. But their blend of capitalism with strong social support is actually what this Labour Party by and large proposes. You’d know that if you...well if you knew it. But that would involve knowing things, detail type things.

[dynamark]

Digs please -JC and JM do not support in any way capitalism in any shape or form.They are both through and through extreme socialists with some very strange ideas .Wouldn't let then run a corner shop hopefully the electorate will agree.
Ive not been to Norway or Sweden but I believe they are both very very expensive places to live

[Diggers]

Dyna, I’m sorry but that is nonsense. I’m assuming you haven’t read the Labour Party manifesto, agreed and led by them both, if you think that represents pure socialism fair enough, I’d say you were completely wrong. Anyway, if you get your no deal their won’t be anything to sell in a corner shop.
Sterling on fire again, think that’s 24 goals for him this season with club and country. Super really can pick a player.

[dynamark]

Digs Mate most of the corner shops here in Leicester don't stock much from the EU it s a bit further East than that.
Its going to get sorted in the next few days hopefully.Nothing to be afraid of but I have some sympathy with business trying to get organised.
Footy was good easy win without stretching really.

[Diggers]

I went to see Alan Carr last night, was doing a work in progress night at my local community theatre. Never been that interested in him but he was very good, funniest thing was his impersonation of May walking and dancing, he nailed the walk completely.

[dynamark]

He is good .Always surprises me how the public seem to really enjoy these very camp/gay comics for some reason.Im thinking back to Ken Williams,Larry Grayson ,John Inman up to Graham Norton and Alan Carr. Its almost like they can get away with being a bit 'naughty' where is would be non PC .
Back to Grayson his characters like Slack Alice and Everard were apparently based on real people who used a local gardeners social club

[Diggers]

Well, women love a gay man, you’re right though, interesting why that kind of comic has thrived even in working men’s clubs where you’d think they’d be lynched. It’s a funny old world!

[Be_the_ball]

Diggers, there are great resources available for language learning now, iTalki.com is a site where you can choose a language teacher and get lessons or even practice with a native speaker. There are also two guys i watch on a youtube podcast called "Spain Speaks", they've both been living in spain ~20 years each, one's an Aussie the other is English. They have a very good insight into living there from a native English speakers perspective. I used a site called nulengua.com years ago , they were based in Guatamala havent used them in years though, the teacher I had wasn't great ended up speaking English for most of it, she told me I sounded like Billy Elliott at one point a couple of other excellent resources I found were Pimsleur, Michel Thomas and Paul Noble spanish lessons.  Anyway Buena Suerte!

[Diggers]

Gracias, BTB. Yo gusto estudiar Espanol, es muy divertido!
Have to say 120 days in a row on Duolingo (30 mins a day) have helped me a heck of a lot but definitely plateaued and need a new stimulus so will check those tips out. Wife has been learning Italian, certainly beats playing some random game or watching tele.

[I'm never wrong]

Damn you Kwini.

[dynamark]

Que ?

[I'm never wrong]

Pompey beat Shrewsbury

[Diggers]

Annoying late winner for Barnsley. Don’t know why the Mackems didn’t play today, Checkatrade final v Kwini’s lads next week, we will had had 18 days without a league match. We then have 9 games in about 28 days...bonkers and will probably kill out automatic promotion hopes.

[kwinigolfer]

Damn you Kwini.

Yup, American Airlines have a lot to answer for, stranded me here in snow and ice. Hope they put my empty seat to good use - decent crowd for STFC also?

[NedB-H]

Pompey beat Shrewsbury

First game I’ve got to for a month or two, thought we actually played quite well, didn’t make the most of chances and Pompey were clinical of the two we gave them. Kenny Jackett is a very good manager when it comes to getting the results on the board, similar to what we were doing last season.

[NedB-H]

8k+ Kwini, which is bloody good for our place... looked like a few empty seats in your end too, so they must have saved your spot.

[kwinigolfer]

8k+ Kwini, which is bloody good for our place... looked like a few empty seats in your end too, so they must have saved your spot.

Ha!
I had to buy my ticket via your ticket page - I won't offer my full email address but pompey are the first six letters!

[super_realist]

By the way, Norway and Sweden, are they Socialist? Depends how you define socialism. Depends how you define capitalism. But their blend of capitalism with strong social support is actually what this Labour Party by and large proposes. You’d know that if you...well if you knew it. But that would involve knowing things, detail type things.

Corbyn is on record as saying that the Venezuela model is one which he thinks works well. How's that working out?

Corbyn advocates the return of utilities to public ownership, that's part of socialism. How would that fix anything? Don't you remember how bad rail services were? How much they and the likes of BT, BG etc had to be subsidised? They were TERRIBLE companies beset with issues of striking and industrial action. The trouble with many of the Corbyn supporters is they're too young to remember dead people not getting buried and people having 40 bags of rubbish in their back garden, and mass strikes.


He would like to introduce more quantitive easing, something which results in INFLATION, he's behind the party of high taxation too. He claimed that he would provide 500 BILLION of additional spending, a figure completely plucked out of the air and absolutely no evidence of how he would fund what would amount to an extra 62% of the public spending.


He's not even in line with his chancellor, promising to cancel tuition fees (which his party created) then his Chancellor tells him he can't.

Now, it may be true that he may have some good ideas, but he's calamitous in virtually everything he says, just like Abbot is. Why would anyone want Corbyn, Abbot or McDonnel in charge of the country?


He actually makes a Liberal Democrat government policy look realistic and how bad must Corbyn actually be as a leader if he can't even beat the worst government since the 1970's?. Would you really want an anti capitalist trot in power? I know teachers are usually arch lefties, but surely even you wouldn't want that Diggers?

British politics is an absolute farce, and Corbyn is playing the part of a pantomime villain perfectly, just as May is. Voting for either May or Corbyn is like arguing whether Gonorrhoea or Chlamydia is better. Two cheeks of the same incompetent backside.

[Diggers]

Policy is laid out in the manifesto. Are you saying there is no public ownership in Norway or Sweden, your supposedly non socialist states. Are you saying that taxation in those countries isn’t also high? It’s not about high taxation, it’s about what constitutes fair taxation. It’s not about whether we should revert to public sector control, it’s about saying where could it work, where is the private sector control failing badly: prisons, trains, local services. Thats often the Scandinavian model, sometimes with full state ownership, sometimes shared private and public.That’s what is in the manifesto, not a Venezuelan model.
Glad you aren’t denying you have the same Brexit beliefs as Corbyn, you’re really like some conflicted love child of Rees Mogg and JC, no wonder you’re so miserable all the time.

[dynamark]

Alert!!!!! Sturgeon is on telly .

[pedro]

Just a bit of propaganda.

Spoiler:

[super_realist]

Alert!!!!! Sturgeon is on telly .

Is the Krankie's being repeated?

[navyblueshorts]

Just a bit of propaganda.

Spoiler:

The sort of dog whistle garbage I'd expect from America on what socialism has to mean.

[Diggers]

Interesting few days for May, she could easily go. Looks utterly broken in every way, I'd feel sorry for her if...nope, can't think of a reason. Can't confess to knowing much about Lidington, supposedly a very nice chap, I suspect he'll lose friends quickly if he does end up as PM.
Gove would be such a poor choice, same negotiating style as May, basically doesn't listen, wouldn't listen to anyone in Education, thought he knew better, and made a complete horlicks of that.

[Diggers]

Heard a great analogy about Brexit this morning. Described as like splitting up with your boyfriend and 2 years later they are sleeping on your couch. Sums it up perfectly.

[kwinigolfer]

Just a bit of propaganda.

Spoiler:

The sort of dog whistle garbage I'd expect from America on what socialism has to mean.

Yup, US brands socialism together with communism, stigmatising both without knowing what either of them mean.
And casting Democrats as "liberals", the sort of rhetorical nonsense that would be laughable if it wasn't so serious.
But "Progressive" seems to have snuck by without a misleading brandname, so far anyway, so Bernie and his other bolts can come up with what the hell they like, somewhat under the radar.

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