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Edinburgh and Glasgow – Continuing patter version 22 (it used to be a squad size)

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Post by tigertattie Tue 12 Mar 2019, 10:56 am

First topic message reminder :

With the woes and injuries in the international camp just depressing us, lets look back to the club game.

Possible areas of discussion:
Edinburgh continue to hold the 1872 trophy
Edinburgh are getting a new ground
Edinburgh have a home Euro Champs cup game to look forward to
Edinburgh have a league fixture against the perpetual point givers, Glasgow, to look forward to
BigGee’s proposed Scotland XV for England has 8 Edinburgh players, 4 exiles and 3 Glasgow players so even the International team is starting to look representative of where rugby in Scotland truly exists.
It’s not all bad for Glasgow though as they sit above Munster in the Pro 14 and have Stafford McDowell on their books
Edinburgh have Hamish Watson though
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Post by EST Wed 03 Apr 2019, 4:34 pm

BigGee wrote:http://glasgowwarriors.org/news/19/04/03/george-thornton-signs-glasgow-warriors

Interestingly Wasps signed another Scottish U20s LH, Jack Owlett into their senior squad for next season, I hope we have gotten the right one!

Thornton was very good at U20 - here's hoping he can push on at Glasgow, judging by his age group stuff, I would say he has a higher potential ceiling than Bhatti.

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Post by George Carlin Wed 03 Apr 2019, 7:56 pm

BigGee wrote:http://glasgowwarriors.org/news/19/04/03/george-thornton-signs-glasgow-warriors

Interestingly Wasps signed another Scottish U20s LH, Jack Owlett into their senior squad for next season, I hope we have gotten the right one!
6’3 and over 110kg.

Same as me. Except, I'm going to be honest, probably a bit fitter.
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Post by tigertattie Thu 04 Apr 2019, 9:43 am

George Carlin wrote:
BigGee wrote:http://glasgowwarriors.org/news/19/04/03/george-thornton-signs-glasgow-warriors

Interestingly Wasps signed another Scottish U20s LH, Jack Owlett into their senior squad for next season, I hope we have gotten the right one!
6’3 and over 110kg.

Same as me. Except, I'm going to be honest, probably a bit fitter.

I'm even bigger.

But I can do the 40m dash in 4.65 seconds Run

but only when I hear the ice cream van drumroll

Thank you, thank you very much, I'll be here all night

Tumbleweed
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Post by Hazel Sapling Thu 04 Apr 2019, 11:28 am

RDW wrote:Ceccarreli signs on for another year with Edinburgh. He's actually been a solid enough prop for us and even overtook Murray McCallum in the pecking order. He'll do a decent job for us during international breaks.

It has been problematic this year in terms of developing McCallum but makes sense for next year. McCallum will get chances early in the season

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Post by tigertattie Thu 04 Apr 2019, 12:56 pm

Tightheads that are most likely to be taken to the WC are

Nel
Berghan
Ragnar

In that order most likely

This will mean that MacCallum is at least likely to get gametime for Edinburgh off the bench.
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Post by RDW Fri 05 Apr 2019, 9:08 am

Mike Blair is going to become fulltime with Scotland next season, leaving Glasgow. That combined with Humphreys leaving (no big loss TBH) means a lot of change at Glasgow. Will be a big ask for Rennie to make the next step with Glasgow in his last seaso, especially with the likes of Hogg leaving and Jonny still TBC - it could be all or nothing this season!

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Post by BigGee Fri 05 Apr 2019, 9:16 am

https://theoffsideline.com/mike-blair-to-step-away-glasgow-warriors/

Mike Blair moving full time to Scotland at the end of the season. I guess as he is going to be away with Scvotland for the WC, so will miss all of pre season and a chunk of the real thing, that makes some sense.

DR talks about both new coaches and new players coming in, some from overseas, but does not give to much away. I guess we will have to wait and see,

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Post by BigGee Fri 05 Apr 2019, 9:23 am

https://theoffsideline.com/glasgow-v-ulster-dave-rennie-warning-shot/

Without naming any names, DR gives an open message that he was not happy with some performances in the game last weekend and it is hard to argue with that.

It is not like him to openly criticise players, so he must be pi##ed with them and he is openly suggesting that some of them are playing for their places in the squad. No names of course.

Who do we think he is referring to?

Hughes and McDowell did not play well and are already dropped.

Hoggy has had better games, but has got a degree of mitigation and hard to see him being dropped in any case.

Other than that it is hard to pick anyone out in particular, it was more a collectively bad performance. I guess the coaches will have access to a lot more data showing the real workrate of individual players, which is not always obvious to the spectators.

One thing is for sure, he is expecting a reaction from them this week against Ulster.

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Post by RDW Fri 05 Apr 2019, 9:28 am

So McDowell isn't quite angel part 2 yet then??

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Post by BigGee Fri 05 Apr 2019, 9:30 am

RDW wrote:So McDowell isn't quite angel part 2 yet then??

A work in progress, not spending enough time in Ayr currently!

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Post by EST Fri 05 Apr 2019, 9:32 am

BigGee wrote:https://theoffsideline.com/glasgow-v-ulster-dave-rennie-warning-shot/

Without naming any names, DR gives an open message that he was not happy with some performances in the game last weekend and it is hard to argue with that.

It is not like him to openly criticise players, so he must be pi##ed with them and he is openly suggesting that some of them are playing for their places in the squad. No names of course.

Who do we think he is referring to?

Hughes and McDowell did not play well and are already dropped.

Hoggy has had better games, but has got a degree of mitigation and hard to see him being dropped in any case.

Other than that it is hard to pick anyone out in particular, it was more a collectively bad performance. I guess the coaches will have access to a lot more data showing the real workrate of individual players, which is not always obvious to the spectators.

One thing is for sure, he is expecting a reaction from them this week against Ulster.

I think against the weaker teams, Hughes is a decent option - he just doesn't have the skill set to compete at the top end, he also hasn't played all that much rugby, given his injury history. As for Sir Stafford, I think it was a bad idea playing him at 13, had he ever played there before? It's pretty well established that its the hardest position to defend, and he doesn't strike me as a natural there - much more a 12, given his size and passing ability.

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Post by Eejit Fri 05 Apr 2019, 9:47 am

EST wrote:
BigGee wrote:https://theoffsideline.com/glasgow-v-ulster-dave-rennie-warning-shot/

Without naming any names, DR gives an open message that he was not happy with some performances in the game last weekend and it is hard to argue with that.

It is not like him to openly criticise players, so he must be pi##ed with them and he is openly suggesting that some of them are playing for their places in the squad. No names of course.

Who do we think he is referring to?

Hughes and McDowell did not play well and are already dropped.

Hoggy has had better games, but has got a degree of mitigation and hard to see him being dropped in any case.

Other than that it is hard to pick anyone out in particular, it was more a collectively bad performance. I guess the coaches will have access to a lot more data showing the real workrate of individual players, which is not always obvious to the spectators.

One thing is for sure, he is expecting a reaction from them this week against Ulster.

I think against the weaker teams, Hughes is a decent option - he just doesn't have the skill set to compete at the top end, he also hasn't played all that much rugby, given his injury history.  As for Sir Stafford, I think it was a bad idea playing him at 13, had he ever played there before?  It's pretty well established that its the hardest position to defend, and he doesn't strike me as a natural there - much more a 12, given his size and passing ability.

Rennie has a point there and hopefully it serves to fire the team up, but there's also someone else that's halfway down his last drink at the last chance saloon and that's Cowboy Dave himself. He needs to show himself as the top coach we thought he was in these last few weeks or he'll be yeehawing his way back to New Zealand. Maybe we can lock Dan McFarland in the basement this evening and hope he gets Stockholm Syndrome and stays.

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Post by BigGee Fri 05 Apr 2019, 9:58 am

Dave Rennie is not going anywhere, unless some international team (Australia???) come in and are willing to buy him out and as they are skint that seems unlikely.

We need to keep some sense of perspective here, we qualified for Europe, from a very tough group and are already into the playoffs. That is not a bad season, by any standards and certainly not one that demands the coach gets sacked and it is hopefully not over yet.

We are not at the level when we can say it is a bad season if we don't win something!

It sounds like he will be bringing in some coaches of his own choosing next season and a few experienced guys to add a bit od steel to the team. Hopefully as well some of our kids will continue to show an improvement.

Last week was not good, but it is not all gloom and doom.

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Post by jimbopip Fri 05 Apr 2019, 10:46 am

I thought DR was pretty on the money. I watched most of the match in The Pig And Fiddle in Bath ( a big thanks to the poster on here who suggested it) where MrsPip and myself were joined at our table by a lovely Irish mother and daughter. They were making polite conversation with herself while I rambled incoherent nonsense at the tellybox. Eventually, I turned to them and said, "No point watching, it's as good as lost now." The mother smiled at me and said, "I think it was lost a wee while now."

DR said,
“There were seven teams that had a chance of qualifying for the semi-finals with about a minute to go last weekend, and then there was us,” he reflected. “When you look back at the game in detail there are lots of important occasions, but when it came down to it we didn’t work hard enough – especially defensively – for long enough.

“You just can’t get away with that. We had a number of guys who performed really well, and some guys who were well below par and are probably fortunate to get another opportunity this week.


“In the end we’ve got to learn from it and we expect a response. If we don’t get a response from those individuals, then you may not see much of them from now on.

I'm not sure who he means, but it will be interesting to see if anyone leaves in the coming weeks. Lord Stafford is probably safe as he is still in his infancy but there must be a few worried souls.

p.s. We all knew Sarries wanted a set piece game so to watch Hoggie repeatedly kick out on the full was soul destroying. The sequence were they scored, Hogg restarts straight to touch, we concede a scrum penalty and they kick to our 22, then win the line out, go through three or four phases and score a try. picard Was desperately embarrassing.

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Post by Eejit Fri 05 Apr 2019, 11:19 am

Unless it wasn't immediately obvious with my overt use of a metaphor about the wild west, I was being purposefully lackadaisical with my post but now I've been called out on it I want to make myself abundantly clear. I understand Cowboy Dave (I will be calling him this now until such times as he proves he is otherwise) has signed a new deal and the SRU are going to want to make the most out of that for better or for worse. Obviously the man has an excellent CV and he is being sought after by various international sides for his considerable talents.

The whole point is that our first team has gotten worse and the problem with that is with the governance of Glasgow/Edinburgh/the SRU being the way it is, it's not immediately clear who is at fault for that. The decision to let two experienced second rows go to other clubs half way through the season was an aberration. An error that may prove unforgivable as we're a bad injury or two away from pulling some tall lad out the stands and giving him a pair of boots. Its not as if either would have been particularly costly and we are feeling the effects now. Similarly, our back row is not good enough - we knew what the problem was and its something that could have been sorted and wasn't. Instead the SRU/Cowboy Dave/et al signed a 28 year old American who hasn't played any rugby even close to this level. Tameilau struggles to get a game for Currie - there's playing the odds and there is just playing to lose.

Waxing lyrical about new coaches coming in and experienced players is all well and good, but its been two years now. The academy boys that have come up are brilliant and we are fortunate to have developed some future internationalists but they've been there for years and their development is a testament to the excellent coaching from the Lineen, Townsend, Munro years. We've been trading on past glories since Cowboy Dave arrived and I'm starting to doubt that we'll ever reach the heights we all thought we would when he got here.

Pedigree and past glories count for naught and you're only as good as your last few results and the last two years shows we've not been getting close to our money's worth.

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Post by RDW Fri 05 Apr 2019, 12:17 pm


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Post by BigGee Fri 05 Apr 2019, 1:45 pm

Eejit wrote:Unless it wasn't immediately obvious with my overt use of a metaphor about the wild west, I was being purposefully lackadaisical with my post but now I've been called out on it I want to make myself abundantly clear. I understand Cowboy Dave (I will be calling him this now until such times as he proves he is otherwise) has signed a new deal and the SRU are going to want to make the most out of that for better or for worse. Obviously the man has an excellent CV and he is being sought after by various international sides for his considerable talents.

The whole point is that our first team has gotten worse and the problem with that is with the governance of Glasgow/Edinburgh/the SRU being the way it is, it's not immediately clear who is at fault for that. The decision to let two experienced second rows go to other clubs half way through the season was an aberration. An error that may prove unforgivable as we're a bad injury or two away from pulling some tall lad out the stands and giving him a pair of boots. Its not as if either would have been particularly costly and we are feeling the effects now. Similarly, our back row is not good enough - we knew what the problem was and its something that could have been sorted and wasn't. Instead the SRU/Cowboy Dave/et al signed a 28 year old American who hasn't played any rugby even close to this level. Tameilau struggles to get a game for Currie - there's playing the odds and there is just playing to lose.

Waxing lyrical about new coaches coming in and experienced players is all well and good, but its been two years now. The academy boys that have come up are brilliant and we are fortunate to have developed some future internationalists but they've been there for years and their development is a testament to the excellent coaching from the Lineen, Townsend, Munro years. We've been trading on past glories since Cowboy Dave arrived and I'm starting to doubt that we'll ever reach the heights we all thought we would when he got here.

Pedigree and past glories count for naught and you're only as good as your last few results and the last two years shows we've not been getting close to our money's worth.

A point of curiosity, what do you count as a decent season?

I was as disappointed as anyone with the performance last weekend, but I would not say we have gone backwards. Remember last year we got annihilated across the board in Europe. So we have certainly progressed in that tournament. In the Pro 14, we are kind of where we were last year, but with a harder run in to claim top spot, which we may or may not achieve, but again, hard to say we have gone backwards.

We are certainly not motoring forward just now but we are probably just about punching our weight. If winning the league is our yardstick for a successful season, then we are going to have a lot of disappointing seasons. That team of Toonie's that won the league did so just in the nick of time, as it peaked then and declined very quickly from there on. In the last year of Toonie's reign, we did not even make the playoffs., it also took several attempts to do so. Rennie came into a major re-building project, we all knew that.

This team is far from the finished article, particularly up front but still plays some genuinely thrilling rugby that is a joy to watch and that other teams really struggle with when it is on song. Would you rather watch Edinburgh grind out another series of 5 yard ruck and maul tries?

Anyway, the season is not over yet, so we should probably reserve judgement.

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Post by EST Fri 05 Apr 2019, 2:41 pm

BigGee wrote:
Eejit wrote:Unless it wasn't immediately obvious with my overt use of a metaphor about the wild west, I was being purposefully lackadaisical with my post but now I've been called out on it I want to make myself abundantly clear. I understand Cowboy Dave (I will be calling him this now until such times as he proves he is otherwise) has signed a new deal and the SRU are going to want to make the most out of that for better or for worse. Obviously the man has an excellent CV and he is being sought after by various international sides for his considerable talents.

The whole point is that our first team has gotten worse and the problem with that is with the governance of Glasgow/Edinburgh/the SRU being the way it is, it's not immediately clear who is at fault for that. The decision to let two experienced second rows go to other clubs half way through the season was an aberration. An error that may prove unforgivable as we're a bad injury or two away from pulling some tall lad out the stands and giving him a pair of boots. Its not as if either would have been particularly costly and we are feeling the effects now. Similarly, our back row is not good enough - we knew what the problem was and its something that could have been sorted and wasn't. Instead the SRU/Cowboy Dave/et al signed a 28 year old American who hasn't played any rugby even close to this level. Tameilau struggles to get a game for Currie - there's playing the odds and there is just playing to lose.

Waxing lyrical about new coaches coming in and experienced players is all well and good, but its been two years now. The academy boys that have come up are brilliant and we are fortunate to have developed some future internationalists but they've been there for years and their development is a testament to the excellent coaching from the Lineen, Townsend, Munro years. We've been trading on past glories since Cowboy Dave arrived and I'm starting to doubt that we'll ever reach the heights we all thought we would when he got here.

Pedigree and past glories count for naught and you're only as good as your last few results and the last two years shows we've not been getting close to our money's worth.

A point of curiosity, what do you count as a decent season?

I was as disappointed as anyone with the performance last weekend, but I would not say we have gone backwards. Remember last year we got annihilated across the board in Europe. So we have certainly progressed in that tournament. In the Pro 14, we are kind of where we were last year, but with a harder run in to claim top spot, which we may or may not achieve, but again, hard to say we have gone backwards.

We are certainly not motoring forward just now but we are probably just about punching our weight. If winning the league is our yardstick for a successful season, then we are going to have a lot of disappointing seasons. That team of Toonie's that won the league did so just in the nick of time, as it peaked then and declined very quickly from there on. In the last year of Toonie's reign, we did not even make the playoffs., it also took several attempts to do so. Rennie came into a major re-building project, we all knew that.

This team is far from the finished article, particularly up front but still plays some genuinely thrilling rugby that is a joy to watch and that other teams really struggle with when it is on song. Would you rather watch Edinburgh grind out another series of 5 yard ruck and maul tries?

Anyway, the season is not over yet, so we should probably reserve judgement.

I agree that we are probably treading water BigGee, but there is no doubt that Rennie has made some odd moves - letting Big Brian go and not adequately resourcing the pack, being the main two. More than that, in nearly all the big games we have played with DR at the helm, we seem to have come off second best physically and mentally - we seem a bit soft to be honest. I just can't see the current team winning big crunch games. I'll certainly reserve judgement until the end of the season, but overall I'v been a bit underwhelmed so far.

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Post by RDW Fri 05 Apr 2019, 2:55 pm

There most be more to the Big Brian departure - it was a colossally bad mistake to just let him go for no reason.

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Post by Eejit Fri 05 Apr 2019, 2:59 pm

BigGee wrote:A point of curiosity, what do you count as a decent season?

I was as disappointed as anyone with the performance last weekend, but I would not say we have gone backwards. Remember last year we got annihilated across the board in Europe. So we have certainly progressed in that tournament. In the Pro 14, we are kind of where we were last year, but with a harder run in to claim top spot, which we may or may not achieve, but again, hard to say we have gone backwards.

We are certainly not motoring forward just now but we are probably just about punching our weight. If winning the league is our yardstick for a successful season, then we are going to have a lot of disappointing seasons. That team of Toonie's that won the league did so just in the nick of time, as it peaked then and declined very quickly from there on. In the last year of Toonie's reign, we did not even make the playoffs., it also took several attempts to do so. Rennie came into a major re-building project, we all knew that.

This team is far from the finished article, particularly up front but still plays some genuinely thrilling rugby that is a joy to watch and that other teams really struggle with when it is on song. Would you rather watch Edinburgh grind out another series of 5 yard ruck and maul tries?

Anyway, the season is not over yet, so we should probably reserve judgement.

First of all at no point in either of my posts did I use the word backwards, you did - I said the first team has gotten worse and there is a huge difference between those concepts. Speaking in terms of results, Glasgow are still competing at the top end of the league domestically, and still largely struggling in Europe though we slowly seem to be getting over the hump. Making the quarter final for the second time ever this year was a by-product of mistakes that have been made before, changing things a little and not making them again. In terms of our club's status within the game, its largely exactly where it has been for the last few years, ergo not backwards. On that we absolutely agree.

We are however, a worse team than we were. Spread enormously thin in certain positions with players brought in to fill roles we don't need filled while glaring problems are ignored. We have some wonderful young players coming up from the previous coaching staff, but the impact of the current administration has been negligible thus far and I haven't seen any sign of it improving.

I remain hopeful that the management make the right moves over the next few weeks and months, but I do not share your seemingly unshakeable optimism.

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Post by EST Fri 05 Apr 2019, 3:10 pm

RDW wrote:There most be more to the Big Brian departure - it was a colossally bad mistake to just let him go for no reason.

I agree there must be something more to it, he was apparently injured when he moved across and then played the first game available - he seems to have been on the bench of late, so he has stayed fit.

More than anything, if you had to describe the type of player who would immediately improve the Glasgow team, a hugely physical second row would be close to the top of the list - which made letting him go all the worse.

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Post by tigertattie Fri 05 Apr 2019, 3:27 pm

Eejit, take a big breath me friend.

Glasgow are not that bad, you're just struggling to kick on.

Getting to the playoffs in the Pro 14 isn't an easy task especially when the Irish Provinces and Welsh Regions have had successful international spells to build from.

Glasgow are just an exact mirror of Scotland at the moment. Mostly playing well, but get bullied by the physical teams where if the opponent enforces the game they want to play on us, we get dragged into a slog and it negates our fast free flowing style.

The biggest issue for Scotland and Glasgow is that the players don’t seem to be able to cope with the pressure of the big game. Put us in an AI or a summer tour game and we'll play really well. Put us in a game that matters like a 6Ns game, a Pro 14 playoff game, a Euro Q/F, or in Glasgow's case a 1872 cup game, and the mental fragility shines through and the players turn to dust.

This being said, part of the issue needs to lay at DRs feet. The Glasgow pack can't cope when they face a pack that will take them on and the backs can't handle defensive duties against physically powerful teams. DR should have addressed this by bringing in a tough as boots 6 or 8 and a big gnarly enforcer of a lock. He didn't and you're continuing to be punished for
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Post by tigertattie Fri 05 Apr 2019, 3:39 pm

PS, happy Birthday for Sunday Flounder Smile
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Post by Eejit Fri 05 Apr 2019, 3:43 pm

Don't get me wrong Tattie, we're still better than your mob!

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Post by EST Fri 05 Apr 2019, 3:48 pm

tigertattie wrote:Eejit, take a big breath me friend.

Glasgow are not that bad, you're just struggling to kick on.

Getting to the playoffs in the Pro 14 isn't an easy task especially when the Irish Provinces and Welsh Regions have had successful international spells to build from.

Glasgow are just an exact mirror of Scotland at the moment. Mostly playing well, but get bullied by the physical teams where if the opponent enforces the game they want to play on us, we get dragged into a slog and it negates our fast free flowing style.

The biggest issue for Scotland and Glasgow is that the players don’t seem to be able to cope with the pressure of the big game. Put us in an AI or a summer tour game and we'll play really well. Put us in a game that matters like a 6Ns game, a Pro 14 playoff game, a Euro Q/F, or in Glasgow's case a 1872 cup game, and the mental fragility shines through and the players turn to dust.

This being said, part of the issue needs to lay at DRs feet. The Glasgow pack can't cope when they face a pack that will take them on and the backs can't handle defensive duties against physically powerful teams. DR should have addressed this by bringing in a tough as boots 6 or 8 and a big gnarly enforcer of a lock. He didn't and you're continuing to be punished for

And, dare I say it, Edinburgh Cool

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Post by RDW Fri 05 Apr 2019, 3:48 pm

Ah so using a similar logic to Glasgow being worse without actually being worse this year, Edinburgh are also worse than Glasgow despite not being worse than Glasgow? Very Happy

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Post by Eejit Fri 05 Apr 2019, 3:50 pm

RDW wrote:Ah so using a similar logic to Glasgow being worse without actually being worse this year, Edinburgh are also worse than Glasgow despite not being worse than Glasgow? Very Happy

Flounder's on the birthday bevvy already.

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Post by RDW Fri 05 Apr 2019, 3:53 pm

tattie how did you know it was my birthday coming up? Are you the person that keeps following me?

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Post by RDW Fri 05 Apr 2019, 3:56 pm

If worse means won 8 out of the last 10 head to heads then I really don't understand Glaswegian logic!

And if it's because you won the league 4 years ago you've really lost me...

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Post by BigGee Fri 05 Apr 2019, 4:53 pm

I find optimism a very useful trait when supporting Scottish rugby, whichever team you support!

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Post by BigGee Fri 05 Apr 2019, 5:23 pm

Looking at the rest of the teams out for this weeks Pro 14 games, I see Leinster have gone very light for their home game against Benetton.

They don't need the points clearly, but they under estimate the Italians at their peril and they could keep their play off hopes well alive if they win this one, which would not do Edinburgh any favours.

It also makes you wonder what they will put out for Glasgow visit the following weekend, if they have given everyone a rest this weekend, they may want to get them all back up to speed again next weekend before the cup semis!

Munster seem to have gone largely the other way and kept a very strong team out for the visit of the Blues, who are certainly on good form at the moment. Does that mean that they will rest a few for their trip to Italy next weekend?


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Post by Eejit Fri 05 Apr 2019, 5:41 pm

We've said it all season, if team's mess about with Treviso they're going to get pumped and leave with nothing. Not that Leinster need anything from this anyway, but as we learned last year you want to be consistently winning games this time of year.

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Post by BigGee Fri 05 Apr 2019, 7:45 pm

Ouch, that is not a good start from Glasgow

Ulster been really good so far

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Post by BigGee Sun 07 Apr 2019, 4:54 pm

Gordon Reid interview with Mark Palmer in the Sunday Times.

Does not seem like the Glasgow deal is done and dusted yet, Dave Rennie may prefer the more mobile style of prop.

Every player wants to go to the World Cup, and they all want a job to come back to. You’d think achieving the first part would guarantee the second, but sometimes it’s not that simple. With contracting season in full flow, certain international players are braced to have to make a choice between spending a few weeks at the very top table and ensuring they still have the means to replenish their own in the months and years that follow.

It’s not just the usual Tier 2 suspects, the Pacific Islanders and East Europeans who have long known what it is to be pressured by your club not to play for your country. Take Scotland’s Gordon Reid, a loosehead prop who has helped win and then retain the Calcutta Cup and who could well find himself getting the nod from Gregor Townsend to understudy Allan Dell in Japan.


Come the end of the season, Reid will be out of contract at London Irish and is not being retained. He has plenty to commend him — 34 caps’ worth of Test experience, a Pro12 winner’s medal, stacks of set-piece nous — but Reid is 32, has been on good money south of the border and is a current international.

For prospective employers in a World Cup year, this last element can be off-putting. If they view the player as a potential first-pick in his position, they don’t want him missing a whole pre-season and the first couple of months of the campaign, then disappearing for the Six Nations almost as soon as he is back. If he is being eyed as cover for another Test player, the World Cup window is precisely when he is most required.

Under World Rugby regulations, clubs cannot legally prevent players accepting international call-ups, but what they can do in this instance is simply choose not to sign them.




“There are a lot of teams basically saying to out-of-contract boys, ‘We want you, but we don’t want you to go to the World Cup,” says Reid. “That’s something a lot of boys are faced with just now. Clubs don’t really want you to play for your country; they want you to be there full-time. It’s harsh, but that’s what it is.

“I know teams will look for props of certain ages at certain times, but it’s a tough year. I was lucky enough to go to the last World Cup and obviously it would be great to go to this one, so hopefully things will work out for the best.”



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Although Reid has fresh interest in France and says he is open-minded about what happens next, there is an obvious solution which would make things more straightforward for both him and Townsend. With Jamie Bhatti moving to Edinburgh in the summer, Glasgow’s frontline looseheads are Alex Allan, another current international, and Oli Kebble, who will surely follow suit when he becomes eligible in the second half of 2020.

The signing from Wasps of former Scotland under-20 cap George Thornton indicates that Dave Rennie has his own ideas — he does like his front-rowers to contribute heavily in the loose — but Townsend may choose to intervene on Reid’s behalf. It will be interesting to see how far it gets him if he does, what with the SRU also now lacking a director of rugby to take an overarching view.

Scotland aren’t exactly blessed with a surfeit of looseheads, let alone scrummaging looseheads, and Reid, who started all of the 2018 Six Nations games and the Sydney win over Australia the previous year, could well be unavailable for more than just the World Cup if he ends up going abroad. In a coincidental but still instructive twist, Townsend is understood to have made representation to Glasgow when he heard Dell was being let go by Edinburgh, only for the 27-year-old to sign for Irish where the deal on offer was longer.

“What will be will be,” says Reid, who spent six years at Scotstoun after being belatedly picked up on the back of his work with Ayr. “When those decisions are there to be made, I’ll think about all the options and decide what’s best for me and my family.”

Staying at Irish isn’t one of the potential avenues. Reid’s wife, Marissa, failed to settle in London and is back in Ayr with the couple’s three-year-old daughter, Emerson. While director of rugby Declan Kidney and head coach Les Kiss have been “great” about letting Reid have the odd weekend off to visit his girls — one of the reasons he chose to stay after relegation despite interest from the Premiership — it is not a sustainable arrangement.

“The great thing about London Irish is that the coaches say, yes, the club is your first priority, but they’re there for the players as people too. When I was called up for the Wales and England games [last month], they were over the moon.

“London is great, but my wife wasn’t happy. I probably see her and my daughter about once a month. Sometimes I just lose the plot, jump in the car and drive up the road. It used to be about rugby, rugby, rugby with me, but the older you get, the more important family life becomes in your thinking. It definitely won’t be the case that my daughter goes to school and I miss her first day or I miss her birthdays. That’s just not going to happen. I missed a lot of my own stuff and it’s just not going to happen with her. Whatever happens next, we’ll be together.”

Reid is well aware of his own limitations as a player, and knows his strengths aren’t always fashionable, especially in the context of gameplans that prioritise speed and continuity.

“I always say with a prop they have to do their main job first and that’s the scrummage. I always say that carrying the ball is a bonus. You also need your props to hit their rucks, do the dirty work. With Scotland, we’ve got so many superb attacking players, so many guys who can carry the ball, and I like to get my head down and do the grunt. Always have done. That’s how I feel I contribute best, and I obviously take a great deal of pride in what I do at set-piece.

“People talk about the number of scrums in a Test match going down year-on-year, but there’s still a pretty simple rule that if that scrum goes backwards, you’re f*****. Whereas if your scrum’s going forward, supplying your good attacking players with good ball, you’ve got a good chance of winning. That bit hasn’t changed and I don’t think it ever will.”

If only everything in the game was so straightforward, eh?




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Post by Eejit Sun 07 Apr 2019, 6:27 pm

On a completely unrelated note, watching Leinster vs Benetton and the Treviso 8 Toa Halafihi had a really good game. Carried an awful lot and gave them excellent go forward.

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Post by tigertattie Sun 07 Apr 2019, 7:46 pm

RDW wrote:tattie how did you know it was my birthday coming up? Are you the person that keeps following me?

Ariel and Sebastian told me

But seriously, the forum tells you. There’s an “upcoming birthday” section
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Post by jimbopip Sun 07 Apr 2019, 7:52 pm

tigertattie wrote:
RDW wrote:tattie how did you know it was my birthday coming up? Are you the person that keeps following me?

Ariel and Sebastian told me

But seriously, the forum tells you. There’s an “upcoming birthday” section

God no, dear god no. Shocked Shocked Shocked thumbsdown

I've only just mastered the quote function thingy.

Anyhoo, Flounder...Hippo birdie two ewes. Hippo birdie two ewes. Hippo birdie dear ewes. Hippo birdie two ewes.

And remember Flounder, Darling it's better down where it's wetter. Take it from me.

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Post by Eejit Sun 07 Apr 2019, 8:41 pm

jimbopip wrote:
tigertattie wrote:
RDW wrote:tattie how did you know it was my birthday coming up? Are you the person that keeps following me?

Ariel and Sebastian told me

But seriously, the forum tells you. There’s an “upcoming birthday” section

God no, dear god no. Shocked Shocked Shocked thumbsdown

I've only just mastered the quote function thingy.

Anyhoo, Flounder...Hippo birdie two ewes. Hippo birdie two ewes. Hippo birdie dear ewes. Hippo birdie two ewes.

And remember Flounder, Darling it's better down where it's wetter. Take it from me.

At the risk of this thread going all pantomime, oh no you haven’t.

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Post by RDW Sun 07 Apr 2019, 9:52 pm

Laugh

Thanks guys. 32 is so old  Sad

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Post by Hazel Sapling Sun 07 Apr 2019, 11:15 pm

Happy Birthday Flounder.

Been a good weekend to make up for the depression of last week. How many times has Brian played in the last 12-18 months that really suggests he would have been healthy for the disappointment at Sarries, let alone have been effective? With McDonald and Swinson injured, we still have Cummings, J Gray and Harley as a good set of locks. Going into the academy after receiving three injuries to a particular position is not a disaster and is how players come through (Peterson was not trusted and our academy locks are probably as good). With the resources in Scotland and the need to develop young players, this is how the pathway has to work.

On the surface, Glasgow have not kicked on since winning the league. Since then, we have lost 13 of the starting 23 players from the final that year (including all the props, Nakarawa, Strauss, Russell and the talented R Vernon) in the space of four years and DTH and Niko both left and came back in that time frame. This is a brand new side with a load of young players about to go to the playoffs again and got to a QF where they got done by probably the best side in Europe (in the top 4 without a doubt) with a playing budget at least 50% higher than ours.

Finish top of conference, beat a tired team coming into the semi-final (Connacht/Blues vs Ulster/Treviso/Edinburgh) and you are in a final in Glasgow against Leinster/Munster.

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Post by jimbopip Mon 08 Apr 2019, 9:40 am

Hazel Sapling wrote:Happy Birthday Flounder. Hope it was, Flounder. Hug


On the surface, Glasgow have not kicked on since winning the league. Since then, we have lost 13 of the starting 23 players from the final that year (including all the props, Nakarawa, Strauss, Russell and the ubertalented ubiquitous R Vernon) in the space of four years and DTH and Niko both left and came back in that time frame. This is a brand new side with a load of young players about to go to the playoffs again and got to a QF where they got done by probably the best side in Europe (in the top 4 without a doubt) with a playing budget at least 50% higher than ours.

Finish top of conference, beat a tired team coming into the semi-final (Connacht/Blues vs Ulster/Treviso/Edinburgh) and you are in a final in Glasgow against Leinster/Munster.

A very good post Ms Sapling. clap of the five potential semi final opponents, the Knitwear models are the ones most likely to win at Scotstoun. Shocked
If it's a Ladyboys-Fraser Brown Fanclub semi, I expect it to be bloody and brutal. If it rains on the morning of the game the match could easily be mistaken for a re-enactment of the first day at Passchendaele.
Throw in the fact that both of them will be as focussed on matters European as Jacob Rees Sterilize The Poor and it could be the perfect time to meet either of them in a final. In Glasgow Very Happy

In short, a Once And Future Champions v Metrosexual Festival Luvvies semi is a real possibility. The winner of that, even if it is the Walking Dead of the team that never rotate, will feel as if they have home advantage and must have a real chance of winning.


p.s. Let me first to post: anyone with spare tickets for the semi/final PM me. Hug

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Post by tigertattie Mon 08 Apr 2019, 10:05 am

jimbopip wrote:
tigertattie wrote:
RDW wrote:tattie how did you know it was my birthday coming up? Are you the person that keeps following me?

Ariel and Sebastian told me

But seriously, the forum tells you. There’s an “upcoming birthday” section

God no, dear god no. Shocked Shocked Shocked thumbsdown

I've only just mastered the quote function thingy.

Anyhoo, Flounder...Hippo birdie two ewes. Hippo birdie two ewes. Hippo birdie dear ewes. Hippo birdie two ewes.

And remember Flounder, Darling it's better down where it's wetter. Take it from me.

Ooooo Matron!!!!

(is there anyone old enough on here other than Jimbo to understand that?)

PS, please don't mention two Ewes on our threads. You'll get Aberdonians (which means Glove may come back) and those claiming a moral victory coming onto the thread!
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Post by jimbopip Mon 08 Apr 2019, 11:15 am

I'm in my happy place today Very Happy

Not just because Shrek is returning. Oh no. I mentioned it and posted a photo of me and Shrek. Simone Favaro liked it and wee had a wee (extremely wee) chat. Yahoo Yahoo Yahoo The man is a legend.

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Post by tigertattie Mon 08 Apr 2019, 11:34 am

jimbopip wrote:I'm in my happy place today Very Happy

Not just because Shrek is returning. Oh no. I mentioned it and posted a photo of me and Shrek. Simone Favaro liked it and wee had a wee (extremely wee) chat. Yahoo Yahoo Yahoo The man is a legend.

Simone is a loony! Absolute disregard for his own personal welfare (and whoever he was running into)

He's exactly the kind of player that Glasgow are crying out for in the backrow at the moment.

I'm sure his chat was short as he's saving his grey matter for when it's really needed as many of his wee grey cells would have been destroyed in the various collisions he's been part of over the years.
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Post by EWT Spoons Mon 08 Apr 2019, 12:08 pm

Edinburgh’s stadium is on hold currently and won’t be ready for the 19/20 season due to hold ups with the building warrant. Club got planning permission but the warrant has been worked on for the last 7 months and apparently still hasn’t concluded.

Plan is still to get in there during the 19/20 season, but won’t be ready for the start.

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Post by tigertattie Mon 08 Apr 2019, 12:16 pm

EWT Spoons wrote:Edinburgh’s stadium is on hold currently and won’t be ready for the 19/20 season due to hold ups with the building warrant. Club got planning permission but the warrant has been worked on for the last 7 months and apparently still hasn’t concluded.

Plan is still to get in there during the 19/20 season, but won’t be ready for the start.

If its ready for any game in the 19/20 season, I'll eat Jimbo's hat!

Regulations and red tape are delaying the start of the build, dodgey builders and poor weather will delay the completion.

If it's ready for the start of the 20/21 season, it will be seen as a nice surprise!
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Post by RDW Mon 08 Apr 2019, 12:16 pm

I was meaning to post something similar spoons - I was speaking to a guy at the Munster game who has been involved in the process and he said it is massively delayed and there's lots of problems.

Not great that there's been zero communication from the club on this until now.

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Post by EWT Spoons Mon 08 Apr 2019, 12:30 pm

They’ve just pinged a note out to all season ticket holders.  It doesn’t say much more than I’ve posted but here it’s here:

edin rugby wrote:As you will be aware, the club in partnership with Scottish Rugby, applied for planning permission for a new purpose-built 7,800-seater stadium on the back pitches at BT Murrayfield on 31 May 2018. At this time, we also applied for the necessary building warrants from the City of Edinburgh Council so work could start as soon as possible.

We gratefully received planning permission on 21 September 2018, but seven months on, the club continues to work with the council in order to bring the building warrant process to a conclusion.

With the building warrant process ongoing, we must now take the decision to continue playing our home matches on the international pitch at BT Murrayfield into the 2019/20 season in order to assist with planning for the forthcoming season and to provide clarity for supporters around ticket prices and Season Ticket Memberships.

In light of these circumstances, the club has taken the decision not to increase adult or concession Season Ticket or match ticket prices whilst we remain in the main bowl at BT Murrayfield.

Gold Season Ticket Members from the 2018/19 season onwards will have priority when transferring to the new stadium and further details on this process will be communicated at the appropriate time.

The club and Scottish Rugby remain committed to delivering a new stadium for the city’s professional rugby team and will continue to work proactively with their project consultants and the City of Edinburgh Council to make this happen.

Thank you for your patience as we work towards providing a suitable long-term home for the club and its valued supporters.

Kind regards,

Craig Docherty
Interim Managing Director


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Post by EWT Spoons Mon 08 Apr 2019, 12:32 pm

I believe this will be/has been shared on various social media sites and possibly the club website. If they haven't yet then they will shortly.

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Post by EWT Spoons Mon 08 Apr 2019, 12:42 pm

Far from ideal this situation.

The cynical part of me wonders with Accies finally getting their planning permission for a 2.5k stand and permission for up to 10k in temp stands, if something is going on behind the scenes here. Before the project at Murrayfield was announced it sounded like a decent option to see if some sort of agreement could be reached, it could be the club have revisited this and are contemplating a ground share again.

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