Gatland to lead the Lions in 2021.......again!

First topic message reminder :

Gatland to lead the Lions to SA in 2021

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/48224634?filter=none


I guess this rules him out of the England job post RWC, guess he is waiting for the All Blacks, still.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Lol right you are maes. Dear me.

Explain your thoughts, how are the teams who didn’t win the six nations better than the one that did? What is wrong with the successful way in which wales play? And why would Gatland be detrimental to the lions effort.

You are not saying much to back up your thoughts, just attempting some sort of attempted condescension...!

I assume you mean win rather than want? The 6 nations isn't a league so doesn't necessarily produce the best team as winner as we've seen this year. As to style of play I have no issue with how Wales play. It's a way they're forced into fair play.
In so far as the lions Gatland and his coaches haven't been great at bringing teams together stodgy bad picks player wise and far too slow to adapt.
Hey you're the one saying silly things maes. I can't help that.

No 7&1/2 wrote:I assume you mean win rather than want? The 6 nations isn't a league so doesn't necessarily produce the best team as winner as we've seen this year. As to style of play I have no issue with how Wales play. It's a way they're forced into fair play.
In so far as the lions Gatland and his coaches haven't been great at bringing teams together stodgy bad picks player wise and far too slow to adapt.
Hey you're the one saying silly things maes. I can't help that.

I’m sorry I don’t understand what you mean there claiming I’m saying silly things?

Wales won grandslam

Beat all the home nations

Have been ranked higher in the rankings for a while

Unbeaten in over a year

Not sure what you are referring too?

No 7&1/2 wrote:Lol right you are maes. Dear me.

Well you may think England are the best team in the world, but the facts certainly suggest otherwise. Wales did win the GS this year at a canter in the end after all the others, England included, flattered to deceive.

Still the Lions tour is two years away and there is a lot of rugby to be played before then. It is way to soon to be getting excited about who may or may not be going on the next tour, all we know for now is that Gats is going to be the head coach and even I, who has been very suspicious about his previous selections, can see why he got the gig based on his track record with the Lions and with Wales.

Back to your old ways then maes. You're going to look pretty silly in a couple of months

BigGee wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Lol right you are maes. Dear me.

Well you may think England are the best team in the world, but the facts certainly suggest otherwise. Wales did win the GS this year at a canter in the end after all the others, England included, flattered to deceive.

Still the Lions tour is two years away and there is a lot of rugby to be played before then. It is way to soon to be getting excited about who may or may not be going on the next tour, all we know for now is that Gats is going to be the head coach and even I, who has been very suspicious about his previous selections, can see why he got the gig based on his track record with the Lions and with Wales.

I’m looking forward to seeing the progress, this really could be a great Lions team. With so much competition for places two years out, we look in great stead going forward.

I think it is a very exciting reality.

Back to back losses coming in your next 2 games. Hope you don't mind being reminded of that as you limp into the wc!

Running on empty for a lot of last year true enough beegee. We only turned the poorer teams home and away.

Because maes meant to be conducive to good debate with his response to tight head? In that case apologies though there was nothing personal. No Wales aren't the best team, certainly not everyone 'knows it'. And the past couple of lions tours have shown reluctance to adapt and far too much reliance on players who were coming back from injury or indeed were still injured when picked.
You could say it was a set plan on a way to play or keeping his players happy for when he returned to Wales.
We can but hope he doesn't need to that anymore and actually give us the best chance. The past 2 tours give me little hope.

Have to agree with 7 1/2. No red pen for a mod? Who watches the watchmen?

It’s really hard to understand what tight head and 7.5 are getting at, unless they’re wumming? How is 7.5 still permitted to comment on topics in this forum after these personal attacks against someone disagreeing with his claim that England are the best in the 6N/world?
Cyril that’s poor. We KNOW by now that you hate maestegmafia but all he’s done is constructively disagree on what was just mentioned about England. I would suggest backing off now.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Back to back losses coming in your next 2 games. Hope you don't mind being reminded of that as you limp into the wc!

Plenty of lemon and lime here. It’s just another silly statement to make .

Mikey, no one hates anyone else on here. That would be crazy. It’s just rugby. If two posters (mods or not) have a bit of tit-for-tat it’s fair that both (or neither) get admonished. No?

I didn’t see that though, except from 7.5 who got personal after someone disagreed with his ridiculous claims.

Nothing ridiculous. Just two guys commenting yeah?

Claiming you’re the best in the world after losing to Wales and drawing with Scotland is a ridiculous claim yeah.

Of course it isn't.

2017 6 Nations

Wales 10 pts
Scotland 14pts


2017 Lions Tour

Wales Players 13
Scottish 5

absolutely nothing to do with form, zip. pure bias

Is Sir Clive Woodward not available?

alive555 wrote:2017 6 Nations

Wales 10 pts
Scotland 14pts


2017 Lions Tour

Wales Players 13
Scottish 5

absolutely nothing to do with form, zip. pure bias

Gatland was not in Charge of Wales in 2017.

LordDowlais wrote:

alive555 wrote:2017 6 Nations

Wales 10 pts
Scotland 14pts


2017 Lions Tour

Wales Players 13
Scottish 5

absolutely nothing to do with form, zip. pure bias

Gatland was not in Charge of Wales in 2017.

he was in charge of the lions in 2017, hes as bent as they come

Gatland picks the players he and his coaches knows and trusts. With such short preparation time it i shard to do anything else.

One prime example from 2013 was the addition of Corbs ahead of Grant when Gethin Jenkins went down. Rowntree has been pilloried for his comments about Grant, but fact is he knew and trusted the ability of Corbs and Gatland backed his judgement. It is hard to say they were wrong with what followed.

There will always be contentious calls, but usually the coaches will be making decisions, even wrong ones, for the right reasons. SCW was palpably wrong in what he did - but he did it because he thought it was the best way to win. 2001 was perhaps one time when a coach made poor decisions for the wrong reasons with Henry having admitted that he made some decisions having weighed up how he would cope with the dressing room when returning to national duties.

If there are Scottish coaches in the next party then Scotland will get a higher representation. Otherwise they may well need to win the slam in 2021.

alive555 wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

alive555 wrote:2017 6 Nations

Wales 10 pts
Scotland 14pts


2017 Lions Tour

Wales Players 13
Scottish 5

absolutely nothing to do with form, zip. pure bias

Gatland was not in Charge of Wales in 2017.

he was in charge of the lions in 2017, hes as bent as they come

Please explain ?

Gatland obviously gets more out of the Welsh players than Howley could. Also, Scotland have beaten Wales twice in about a decade and a half. Why should their players be classed as better ?

In 18 games, home and away the record is 16 games won by Wales 2 Games won by Scotland, I had to go back 16 years since Scotland were properly competitive with Wales.

"otherwise they may well need to win the slam in 2021"

agree with this 100%

So if coaches from other nations who may coach the Lions do not pick any Scottish players, will they be bent as well ?

LordDowlais wrote:

alive555 wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

alive555 wrote:2017 6 Nations

Wales 10 pts
Scotland 14pts


2017 Lions Tour

Wales Players 13
Scottish 5

absolutely nothing to do with form, zip. pure bias

Gatland was not in Charge of Wales in 2017.

he was in charge of the lions in 2017, hes as bent as they come

Please explain ?

Gatland obviously gets more out of the Welsh players than Howley could. Also, Scotland have beaten Wales twice in about a decade and a half. Why should their players be classed as better ?

In 18 games, home and away the record is 16 games won by Wales 2 Games won by Scotland, I had to go back 16 years since Scotland were properly competitive with Wales.

what the hell has that got to do with 2017 - zip !

your gatland picked 3 times more welsh than scots immediatley after the scots got 40% more points in the 6 nations. worse still of the initial squad he picked only 2. as biased as they come.

LordDowlais wrote:So if coaches from other nations who may coach the Lions do not pick any Scottish players, will they be bent as well ?

of course

all the other nations were underrepresented by Gatland . There were more welsh than irish fgs.

alive555 wrote:"otherwise they may well need to win the slam in 2021"

agree with this 100%

It is not unreasonable though. Coaches will always err on the side of those they trust. It is not being crooked or bent. It is a bias but an understandable one.

It's make more sense if he was thrown in blind to make selections though. He had about a year to prep didn't he?

I have no issues with Gatland leading the Lions again. Think that he has been the best Lions coach I have seen. I don't care who he picks either as long as he (and he has done before) gets the job done.
I don't think that he is overly bias, he is probably guilty of selecting on familiarity and that is something I feel most coaches would do.

All that said, I was kind of hoping Stuart Lancaster got the job. I think he is an amazing coach and one that would form a decent squad.

2017 6 Nations

# Country Pts
1 England 19
2 Ireland 14
3 France 14
4 Scotland 14 1 player
5 Wales 10 10 players
6 Italy 0

Surely a coach can pick who he wants? Or should we gather all of the rugby fans in a big room and get us to select who we think by pressing buttons on a voting system? And then make the coach go with who we've selected?

Based on results it's hard to criticize Gats getting another run. For me though he just has never got what the Lions is about, that it isn't just about winning the series but uniting the squad and fans.

Townsend would have been a better choice in my opinion. The 6n didn't go well for Scotland but he was a pivotal player in 1997 and has a great track record as a coach with Glasgow.

rodders wrote:Based on results it's hard to criticize Gats getting another run. For me though he just has never got what the Lions is about, that it isn't just about winning the series but uniting the squad and fans.

Townsend would have been a better choice in my opinion. The 6n didn't go well for Scotland but he was a pivotal player in 1997 and has a great track record as a coach with Glasgow.

I agree with this, although as a current coach, I wouldn't go for Townsend either. Cotter/Lancaster/Schmidt would have all be better options as recent international coaches with strong grounding in the NH game

BamBam wrote:

rodders wrote:Based on results it's hard to criticize Gats getting another run. For me though he just has never got what the Lions is about, that it isn't just about winning the series but uniting the squad and fans.

Townsend would have been a better choice in my opinion. The 6n didn't go well for Scotland but he was a pivotal player in 1997 and has a great track record as a coach with Glasgow.

I agree with this, although as a current coach, I wouldn't go for Townsend either. Cotter/Lancaster/Schmidt would have all be better options as recent international coaches with strong grounding in the NH game

agree 100%.

How did Gatland not unite the squad? I have seen no reports of disharmony, from either of his tours. I would wager that the fans who tour are pretty behind it too.

Unfortunately, Gatland is going to have to form an idea of his squad pretty early once he gets the gig. So whilst Scotland might've finished above Wales in one tournament, it doesn't make them better players for what has been proven to be a pretty one off event. I suspect their performance in 17 is why they got 5 (some added late), otherwise the likes of Seymour and Laidlaw might not have even toured.

It's easy to say 10 Welsh players and 5 Scottish players isn't fair, without backing it up. I am unsure really which of the 10 Welsh players were not deserving of their place and there doesn't seem to be much in the way of discussion on here about it either, unsurprisingly.

alive555 wrote:2017 6 Nations

#      Country     Pts                    
1 England 19
2 Ireland 14
3 France 14
4 Scotland 14    1 player
5 Wales 10  10 players
6 Italy 0

No wonder they never had any tourists!!!

Moriarty was perhaps the most contentious choice but it is unlikely he kept out a Scot. Russell perhaps the most contentious omission from Scotland, but his headless chicken act at Twickenham that year would have counted against him.

OK then, lets talk now, if the Lions were now, how many from each nation would you take ? Don't name them, just give numbers, the finer details we can discuss later.

LordDowlais wrote:OK then, lets talk now, if the Lions were now, how many from each nation would you take ? Don't name them, just give numbers, the finer details we can discuss later.

What is the squad size?

LondonTiger wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:OK then, lets talk now, if the Lions were now, how many from each nation would you take ? Don't name them, just give numbers, the finer details we can discuss later.

What is the squad size?

It was 36 last time wasn't it ? Lets go with that.

LordDowlais wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:OK then, lets talk now, if the Lions were now, how many from each nation would you take ? Don't name them, just give numbers, the finer details we can discuss later.

What is the squad size?

It was 36 last time wasn't it ? Lets go with that.

9 of each of course

43 last time before the Welsh tourists were added.

No 7&1/2 wrote:43 last time before the Welsh tourists were added.

OK go with that then.

There would be a difference in my selection between right now and on current form but players being 2 years older - ie AWJ woudl go this summer but not in 2021 when 36 and possibly retired.



English 12, Welsh 9, Irish 6, Scots 6, 3 undecided.

No 7&1/2 wrote:43 last time before the Welsh tourists were added.

41 I believe. Haskell and Laidlaw replaced Billy and Youngs prior to departure.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/39639299

For me the Lions team/sqaud as a test 23 would be

Forwards
England, Scotland, Ireland
Wales, England
Ireland, England, Scotland

Backs
Ireland
Scotland
Ireland
Ireland
Wales
Ireland
Scotland

Ireland, Ireland, England
England
Ireland
Wales
Ireland

5 English
10 Irish
4 Scottish
3 Welsh

Now that is based purely on who I feel is the better player in each position. I'm not counting things like team dynamics or combinations such as you may want to play an all ireland front row on the bench for familiarity

Also this is not a Wum, it's genuinely who I feel are the better players.

Two Irish wingers tt? (Also only 22 listed)

On current form I would definitely have a Welsh FB.