2019/20 Premier League Thread - The Year We Find Out if Liverpool Winning the Title is More Important Than People’s Lives

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Mon 13 May 2019, 9:04 am

First topic message reminder :

2019/20 Barclays season thread

Start off by asking how long you think Ole will last at the wheel? For me, sacked by February 2020
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Post by Samo on Tue 17 Mar 2020, 6:13 pm

If the season is declared Null and Void will fans be refunded season ticket money?

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Tue 17 Mar 2020, 6:20 pm

No (and to be fair, they shouldn’t be). They should get a percentage of what’s left, but on a voluntary basis at lower league clubs so they have the choice not to

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Post by Samo on Tue 17 Mar 2020, 6:50 pm

So they've played enough of the season that fans dont get money back, but not enough of the season to decide who the winners and losers are?

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Tue 17 Mar 2020, 6:57 pm

Samo wrote:If the season is declared Null and Void will fans be refunded season ticket money?

If I were a fan I wouldn't want my season ticket money back. Especially at a lower league club!
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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Tue 17 Mar 2020, 7:36 pm

Samo wrote:So they've played enough of the season that fans dont get money back, but not enough of the season to decide who the winners and losers are?  

Get the money back for the games they don’t get to watch. It’s not like the games they’ve seen literally didn’t happen.

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Post by Soul Requiem on Thu 19 Mar 2020, 2:02 pm

The season is being extended indefinitely so looking unlikely to be voided any time soon.

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Post by Duty281 on Fri 27 Mar 2020, 12:53 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xhWsj8MVgY

The lack of football has driven commentator Clive Tyldesley around the twist.

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Post by GSC on Sat 04 Apr 2020, 4:11 pm

it's odd that 20% of the richest league in the world need the taxpayer to fund 80% of their normal staffs wages
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Post by dyrewolfe on Mon 06 Apr 2020, 1:38 pm

GSC wrote:it's odd that 20% of the richest league in the world need the taxpayer to fund 80% of their normal staffs wages


Though not surprising that the majority of players seem reluctant to take a pay cut. At least thats the impression you get listening to some ex-players, Wayne Rooney and the PFA.

Trying to make it sound like they practically fund the NHS by warning the government would lose £200m in tax revenue. A drop in the ocean considering the £30bn plus that has been set aside already.

Selfish, grotesquely overpaid bar stewards. Can't see beyond protecting their own extravagant lifestyles...even to help the clubs who pay their exorbitant wages. This just sums up everything thats wrong with the Premier League (apart from VAR).
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Post by GSC on Mon 06 Apr 2020, 2:16 pm

I dont think they're that reluctant, more they dont really want to give up wages so the likes of Mike Ashley can pocket the difference. if the players give up salary, the club should reasonably be expected to not furlough non playing staff given the savings.

that said, most of the PFA arent PL players and not that well paid.
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Post by Atila on Tue 07 Apr 2020, 5:35 am

Liverpool have done a u-turn after scoring an own goal and decided against furloughing their non-playing staff. Right move by them, but it's a shame that they were considering it in the first place. Other top clubs like Newcastle and Spurs should follow suit.

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Post by dyrewolfe on Tue 07 Apr 2020, 10:58 am

GSC wrote:I dont think they're that reluctant, more they dont really want to give up wages so the likes of Mike Ashley can pocket the difference. if the players give up salary, the club should reasonably be expected to not furlough non playing staff given the savings.

that said, most of the PFA arent PL players and not that well paid.


That was where I was coming from. Obviously owners shouldn't profit from the pay cuts - they should be used to help clubs' non-playing staff. Wink
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Post by Just John on Tue 07 Apr 2020, 12:42 pm

Atila wrote:clubs like Newcastle and Spurs should follow suit.

Laugh No chance of Ashley doing a u-turn, that’s for sure.

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Post by Duty281 on Thu 16 Apr 2020, 2:10 pm

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52307147

30th of June deadline, possible 22 team PL next season with Leeds and WBA coming up, and no relegation appears to be the running favourite.

Can't get behind Leeds and WBA coming up. If there's no relegation, there should be no promotion. Though it is understandable if it's about TV money.

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Post by Crimey on Thu 16 Apr 2020, 2:19 pm

Still think it makes more sense to finish this season then try and start the new one. Inevitably the next season would be messed up anyway, so better to finish this one and see where we are.

Reports from Italy is they don't expect to be back to spectator football until at least January 2021, I'd expect it will be similar here. 

Every solution seems to have issues. I think playing the remaining games (only 8) in the league over the course of 3-4 weeks (in May, June or July), two games a week would make sense. We may then be able to plan for a non-attended football to restart in August/September, with League Cup or FA Cup not happening to make space for slightly constricted season.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Thu 16 Apr 2020, 2:27 pm

Crimey wrote:Still think it makes more sense to finish this season then try and start the new one. Inevitably the next season would be messed up anyway, so better to finish this one so Liverpool can win the league and nothing else matters

Fixed
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Post by Crimey on Thu 16 Apr 2020, 3:03 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:
Crimey wrote:Still think it makes more sense to finish this season then try and start the new one. Inevitably the next season would be messed up anyway, so better to finish this one so Liverpool can win the league and nothing else matters

Fixed

To be fair...hard for me not to want Liverpool to win the league given the circumstances. I didn't think anything could be more gutpunching than 13/14. 

Of course, not mentioning the benefits for Norwich if the season is cancelled.....

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Thu 16 Apr 2020, 4:00 pm

Find the notion that this season is more important than next season a very weird one.

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Post by Crimey on Thu 16 Apr 2020, 4:16 pm

It's not about importance, it's just that it's mostly done. Next season is likely to be affected anyway, so why have two part-finished or strange seasons rather than ensuring we finish one completely and then deal with what comes next. It also means questions around championships, promotion, relegation are resolved.

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Thu 16 Apr 2020, 6:31 pm

It feels like forcing a sport to be squashed in and away from the fans, whilst risking health of those players, and also limiting next season (which is going to be affected adversely and could use the extra time) is just pandering.

The only reason they’re finishing the season is legal pressures.

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Post by Duty281 on Thu 16 Apr 2020, 7:47 pm

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:The only reason they’re finishing the season is legal pressures.

Indeed. It's all about the money, money, money...

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri 17 Apr 2020, 8:20 am

Crimey wrote:
Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:
Crimey wrote:Still think it makes more sense to finish this season then try and start the new one. Inevitably the next season would be messed up anyway, so better to finish this one so Liverpool can win the league and nothing else matters

Fixed

To be fair...hard for me not to want Liverpool to win the league given the circumstances. I didn't think anything could be more gutpunching than 13/14. 

Of course, not mentioning the benefits for Norwich if the season is cancelled.....

Yes it really benefits us to have the season in which we've reached the FA Cup quarter final for the first time in 30 years and have a winnable home tie in that quarter final, to be cancelled, so we can have another pointless season in the Premier League with the aim of finishing 17th. Great fun
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Post by Soul Requiem on Fri 17 Apr 2020, 9:30 am

If the season can't be finished by June 30th I see no other solution than to forfeit it altogether. I'm not sure of the exact numbers but multiple teams will have players with contracts expiring on that date so having teams continuing minus players they would have had is going to be a minefield.

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Post by GSC on Fri 17 Apr 2020, 11:51 am

I must admit, I'm struggling to see the logic behind compromising 2 seasons rather than forfeiting one to save the other.

And I have a vested interest in not cancelling the season
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Post by GSC on Fri 17 Apr 2020, 12:03 pm

And for the record I don't really care if Liverpool get crowned champions, they had it won easily anyway
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Post by Duty281 on Fri 17 Apr 2020, 9:28 pm

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52282288

The wisdom of the crowd (or at least BBC Sport readers): 39% say declare the season null and void (my personal choice). 28% finish the season as long as it takes. 12% for end the season now and leave the table as it is. 12% want to have a 'festival of football' to finish games quickly. 8% want to go back to the old days and decide it by points-per-game average. 1% want something else (Fifa tournament? Subbuteo?).

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Fri 17 Apr 2020, 11:25 pm

I like the idea of starting next season on this season’s points tally, well at least better than delaying as long as it takes

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Post by GSC on Sat 18 Apr 2020, 6:07 pm

I can't agree with that idea tbh, part of the appeal of a new season is everyone starting from nothing
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Post by PaulHv2 on Sat 18 Apr 2020, 9:08 pm

GSC wrote:I must admit, I'm struggling to see the logic behind compromising 2 seasons rather than forfeiting one to save the other.

And I have a vested interest in not cancelling the season

What makes you think next seasons won't be effected? Good point made on this weeks football ramble that this isn't likely to be a one and done virus based on what the experts are saying, there's still no news on a vaccine, and prevously experts have said they hope to have one within 6 months.
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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Sun 19 Apr 2020, 3:03 pm

It will be hugely, but my feeling is you’d be better ending this one and giving the next the most time you can. It feels like this one is going to change the English game for years.

If you consider we may have to lockdown multiple times, the football season 20/21 needs the time. I also think a bit of knowing where teams stand will help their businesses.

On top of that, this massive gap is basically a different season now. This season is going to be split into different conditions. Not just physically, not just injuries and rested players, but mentally.

Give Liverpool the title, it seems so important, and let’s move on.

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Post by PaulHv2 on Sun 19 Apr 2020, 3:24 pm

It's not only about Liverpool though is it. Bournemouth, West Ham and Watford are all on 27 points, Aston Villa are only two points behind with a game in hand, Sheffield United are two points beind Manchester United with a game in hand. If you're giving the title, and presumably European spots out then you would have to give out promotion and relegation.

Look further down the pyramid than the Premier League, clubs are going to the wall because of lack if income and if we remove prize money then we are going to end up restructuring English football as we know it. How many sponsors could arguably ask for money back over this that will envitably fall on the clubs to pay back?
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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Sun 19 Apr 2020, 10:44 pm

Decidedly, it is about Liverpool. The title stuff seems to cloud this debate when it isn’t important.

Would you have to? Or you can decide those because the competitions need entrants for next year and suspend the rest.

Points on average, final games for those very specific issues. A lot easier than

Prize money isn’t the issue down there, it’s gates.

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Post by PaulHv2 on Sun 19 Apr 2020, 10:52 pm

I agree the gates money is the issue but that isn't coming in so in the absence of that the prize money becomes much more vital.
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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Mon 20 Apr 2020, 1:38 pm

On the integrity issue many have mentioned, I can’t see how the conditions are fair to anyone.

Liverpool win the title pretty soon and automatically will not put their players through the same toll of anyone else. Clubs who haven’t played them twice get an easier fixture, Liverpool gain a huge advantage going into the next season having been able to easily manage injuries and fitness.

Players in different areas of the country will also be feeling differently to others. London-based players aren’t going to feel as comfortable with this, undoubtedly. Social distancing is expected to continue in the real world whilst football bangs on? Just one example of a player who won’t be in the right frame of mind is Aaron Cresswell, father to a newborn baby. Does he see his family during all this?

It will also require continuous testing. If we do this in a smaller timeframe, is that testing around 250 people at each game, twice a week? Based on numbers needed to make games viable for broadcast and wondering whether we are allowing them to live normal lives otherwise. 5000 tests a week for non-essential workers. I’d hope they’re paying over the odds by a long, long way in a way that allows others to benefit.

Home games are no longer such a benefit. You’re playing in different conditions to the majority of the season. Different motivations up and down the league too.

All that, and then we do the european football in July/August, start the next season in September? This allowing for no disruption of that timeline, begging the question of how we even fit the next season in considering we have likelihood of further lockdown and a Euros at the end of the season too

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Post by Soul Requiem on Mon 20 Apr 2020, 2:05 pm

It is an almost impossible situation and finding a solution that is fair to all sides is even more so. In the grand scheme of things Liverpool winning the title is near the bottom of a long list or priorities, maintaining as many teams in the lower leagues is of upmost importance and more needs to be done going forward to ensure that the Premier League money trickles down the system more than it does currently.

A vaccine if one is even possible is estimated to be 18 months away yet and I would assume we'll be subjected to varying levels of social distancing in that time. It's going to be a hard sell telling the wider population that millionaire footballers require constant testing so as to provide a majority of the population with entertainment. The multinational Euros will not be happening any time soon.

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Tue 21 Apr 2020, 2:20 pm

Football will rush back, money being more important than anything else, highlighted by the Saudis buying Newcastle and people defending it.

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Post by Beer on Wed 22 Apr 2020, 11:04 am

Bring on that evil Saudi money.

I do extend my condolences to fans of clubs who make their money from selling sex toys. Must be hard for you on your pedestal.

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Wed 22 Apr 2020, 1:10 pm

Why are you so worried about sex toys? Your missus isn’t doing anything illegal.

I am surprised at how weird Newcastle fans have been over it, to be honest. It’s very Liverpool.

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Post by Just John on Wed 22 Apr 2020, 1:54 pm

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:I am surprised at how weird Newcastle fans have been over it, to be honest. It’s very Liverpool.

Explain?

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Wed 22 Apr 2020, 2:19 pm

Attacks on Amnesty international online, berating of journalists, calls of jealousy, that anyone is better than Ashley, that’s they deserve the glory so the other stuff doesn’t matter. Just seems to be that a chance to win trophies means they’re happy for their club to become a vehicle for a regime of extremely poor human rights records.

The defence of it all comes across as very Trump/Brexit. F*** the consequences, we want our glory

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Post by Beer on Wed 22 Apr 2020, 3:10 pm

You should probably follow some other people.

I've seen various fans, and those groups connected to the club slating anyone for criticising Amnesty International.

Journos: -

Miguel Delany has been getting it from fans for his criticisms.

1) Because he was supportive of the Saudi's previous attempt to buy Manchester United.
2) Because he works for the Independent who the Saudi's happen to have a stake in.

Richard Keys has got grief, because he is a known associate of Mike Ashley. Also, his comment of 'anyone but Newcastle' wasn't to do with Human Rights issues, it's because he doesn't want Ashley out. And he's a hairy knuckled werido.

Stan Collymore, cause, Ulrika.

I'd take Josef Fritzl over Ashley, as would most fans. Let him run your club for 13 years, then come bacl.

Not seen anything about the glory.

What I have seen is fans saying it's not their place to comment on the issues, because they are fans of football. If every fan took the moral high ground on their ownership, we'd have no supporters. Was there and onslaught of animal rights people getting involved when Venky's purchased Blackburn? Roman's links to politics in Russia that made him a billionaire? No... no I don't think there was.

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Post by Crimey on Wed 22 Apr 2020, 3:12 pm

Everything bad fans do is "very Liverpool" from your perspective.

All fans of clubs are exactly the same. Every single club in the world would have the exact same reaction from the takeover. There would be some fans ignoring the ethical dilemma, some who would have a real problem with it and some who will start becoming Saudi propaganda machines themselves.

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Post by Just John on Wed 22 Apr 2020, 3:15 pm

Sour grapes.

Not sure how else you’d expect a clubs fan base to react? If this was WHU, you’d have the exact same response, and don’t deny it. The majority of fans don’t care about morality, or where the money is coming from. They just want to be entertained, and have a club that is competitive, something they’ve been starved of under the Ashley regime.

As for Amnesty getting involved, they knew full well they have no influence upon any decisions made by the greedy PL, so it was inevitable that they would face some backlash from certain Toon fans. You have to laugh when in the Amnesty International statement, it talks about this NUFC situation being ‘at odds with the values of the Premier League and the global footballing community’. Hilarious. Do they not realise what the PL was built from, and how it became so successful?

As for berating journalists, well that’s nothing new. It happens every day of the week on numerous platforms, in regards to varying topics. Not really much of a point. As for claiming other fans are jealous, well of course they are, it’s human nature. Don’t pretend you’d rather have Gold/Sullivan, over the chance of Saudi ownership, and potentially following in the footsteps of a Manchester City.

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Post by Beer on Wed 22 Apr 2020, 3:22 pm

Not sure 'sour grapes' is the correct attitude to have, John.

Some people do have morals and their concerns are genuine, however, they shouldn't kid themselves and act like they protest every purchase of every club.

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Post by PaulHv2 on Wed 22 Apr 2020, 3:22 pm

Why wasn’t there such a kick off over the Sheffield United takeover? Aren’t they owned by Saudis?
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Post by GSC on Wed 22 Apr 2020, 3:23 pm

Could be worse, our owner petrol bombs bakeries
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Post by GSC on Wed 22 Apr 2020, 3:24 pm

PaulHv2 wrote:Why wasn’t there such a kick off over the Sheffield United takeover? Aren’t they owned by Saudis?
Pretty sure there was when it was rumoured he was related to Bin Laden or w/e it was
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Post by PaulHv2 on Wed 22 Apr 2020, 3:26 pm

I don’t remember it to this level though. As John mentioned some of the journos currently crying about how it should be stopped were dancing when they were linked with United.

But as you mention, I remember the crying about the potential family links to Bin Laden, but I don’t remember the level of outpouring regarding human rights. As for Keys being involved, he’s following BeIN sports line, they don’t want the Saudis involved and have threatened to withdraw their support and coverage as a result. Must be forgetting the owners in Sheffield.


Last edited by PaulHv2 on Wed 22 Apr 2020, 3:28 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Beer on Wed 22 Apr 2020, 3:28 pm

PaulHv2 wrote:Why wasn’t there such a kick off over the Sheffield United takeover? Aren’t they owned by Saudis?

I asked the same question. They are owned by the House of Saud, which is the actual Saudi Royal Family.

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Wed 22 Apr 2020, 3:29 pm

I know I wouldn’t have the same response. It’s basically “I don’t have an argument” to claim jealousy.

I’d have taken Ashley over our two for every single one of those years. How’s that stadium of yours that was built for football and you can call home?

If it had gone any further with Man United, there would have been plenty of furore. And as for Sheffield United, id suggest profile.

If it’s not your place to comment, you’re basically too afraid to admit out loud you don’t like it.

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