PGA Tour: PGA Championship @ Bethpage: Notes from the Ballwasher

First topic message reminder :

1).Still not a fan of the compressed PGA Tour season, with Majors coming one after the other, rat-a-tat-tat, in indecent haste. And the weather will certainly not be conducive to seeing Long Island's Bethpage Black at its best.
May has been as much a disappointment in the New York area as it has been on Downing Street, with temps below normal, and rainfall above.
So much so that Doncaster's very own Kerry Haigh, the highly regarded PGA course set-up man, was questioning, "Are the trees going to bud, is the grass going to grow?". Apparently both have happened (there, not here), but not in time for the rough to grow in properly, and two inches of rain early this week will leave the course "soft", possibly a euphemism for muddy.

2).Fortunately, the PGA has caught a break in the weather and a threat of rain has diminished (somewhat), and temps approaching 20C are threatened for Thursday. Shangri-La, but the fact remains that spring weather in the North-East is notoriously fickle and one hopes that won't discourage the PGA from holding its great Championship on the great courses here in the future. Venues to come include:
2020: Harding Park, San Francisco
2021: Kiawah Island, South Carolina
2022: Drumpf National, NJ
2023: Oak Hill, Rochester, NY - All PGA Committee members have fingers crossed that there's a warm spring beside Lake Ontario for that one.
2024: Valhalla, Louisville
2026: Aronimink, Shotrockville, Philadelphia
2028: Olympic Club, San Francisco
2029: Baltusrol, NJ
2031: Congressional, Maryland
2025, 2027, still TBA, but Southern Hills in Tulsa has been promised a date.

3).The US Open came to Bethpage for the first time in 2002 (won by Woods), revisited in 2009 (Glover) and the PGA Tour's "Barclays" arrived in 2012 (Watney) and 2016 (Reed). And, as part of the PGA's customary "package deal" for course venues, the 2024 Ryder Cup will be here - imagine any candidate to be appointed the US Captain will already have stipulated the pre-condition that all rough will be mowed to fairway length.

4).Bethpage Black is famously posted as "An extremely difficult course which we recommend only for highly skilled golfers".
Formerly best known as "Plunky's" home course, the "Black" is an AW Tillinghast gem, rated in Golf Digest as his third best design, behind Winged Foot (West), site of the 2020 US Open and San Francisco Golf Club.
"Tillie" is also responsible for Baltusrol (Lower and Upper), Winged Foot (East), Somerset Hills in NJ, Quaker Ridge (NY), Ridgewood CC (NJ), and Philadelphia Cricket Club, plus San Antonio's Breckenridge Park & Oak Hill CC. He had a hand in Inverness and Sleepy Hollow and is probably comparable only to Donald Ross in terms of influence and prolific productivity of great courses in the US.    

5).2002 US Open: Was this better known for Tiger's win, Phil's customary runner-up, the barracking of Sergio's "regripping" epidemic (on his way to a 4th place finish), or Nick Price being unable to reach a fairway or two (on his way to an 8th place finish)?
Harrington finished 8th alongside Charlie Howell, while players who might fancy their chances this week such as Kuchar, Cink, Walker, Scott and Perez all missed the cut.

6).Back again in 2009 and Bethpage was a quagmire with monsoon following monsoon. Lucas Glover took the honours on the Monday, with Phil (you know where he finished), Ross Fisher (5th), Woods (6th), Stenson (9th) and Sergio & Rory (T10th) close behind.
Others with decent finishes included McDowell, Bubba, Westwood, Poults, Holmes, Molinari, Scott and DJ.
Kaymer, Fowler, Sneds, Zach, Kuchar again, Casey, Harrington and Rose missed the cut.  

7).In 2012 the Tour brought the Barclays to Bethpage and all-we-want-is Watney led the way. Too many of this week's field played to mention in detail, but "notables" include:
2nd: Snedeker
T3: DJ, Sergio (great record here, played 3, top ten finishes 3)
T5: Westwood, Harman, Louis
10: Bubba
T19: Harrington, Holmes
T24: Rory & Day
T38: Tiger, Phil, Kooch

8).And in 2016 Patrick Reed won the Barclays. Others:
T4: Day, Woodland and Scott.
T7: Fowler
T10: Spieth
T13: Phil, Bubba
T18: DJ, Louis

Difficult to tell without a ton of research how course set-ups compare, between the USGA and PGA Tour - and now the PGA Of America. But, given wet/drying conditions (where's Derek Underwood when you need him?), one imagines that the winner will be a longer-than-average driver who can keep it straight and possibly hits a higher than average ball.
No doubt that could fit the likes of DJ & Koepka, Rory and Rosey, Scott & Sergio, Casey, Stenson & Louis Oosthuizen. Lucas Glover must be a decent e.w. pick and Tiger can't be ruled out if he's actually fit and undeterred by being sued for wrongful death. That seems like half the field,  

9).The value of a good caddie is often debated on this Board, but there's no doubt that last week's Byron Nelson winner, Sung Kang, had a significant upturn in fortunes in early 2016 when Jim Furyk was sidelined and Kang hired Fluff Cowan on a tournament-by-tournament basis. After struggling through his first few events, Kang hired Cowan and immediately went on a T18, T8, T10, T22 run, including a 60 at Monterey Peninsula CC.
Disappointing weekend from Stenson and Seamus Power, Knox & Laird, but a renaissance round on Sunday from Padraig Harrington - you never know with him, and can quite imagine him plodding round Bethpage for a good result this week.

10).And, just remember, if you blink and miss this Major, there's only four weeks before we cross the country to Pebble Beach for another one, the 2019 US Open.

The round from hell for McIlroy - five over after three holes.

McLaren wrote:We can't always put our finger on why some people are more interesting than others and the same goes for why some people just aren't interesting.  And Brooks falls into the seriously uninteresting category.  I guess he is just lacking in the charisma and personality stakes.


To Rorymania, GIR of 15 and leading strokes gained driving. Still manages to shoot +2.

Sorry, that logic doesn't work. Woods is about as interesting as paint drying, golf aside, and recent Masters aside, there's really nothing to justify the relative interest. I guess Woods has that previously awesome Major record and the "can he make it back to the top story" though. McIlroy though? Nope.

Duty281 wrote:The round from hell for McIlroy - five over after three holes.

That's our 'Rors' - talks a good game (used to have one) and media darling, but doesn't seem to be able to walk that walk anymore.

navyblueshorts wrote:
Sorry, that logic doesn't work.

But that was sort of my point, we can't really say why Tiger is more interesting than Brooks, but he is to the vast majority of golf fans and journalists.

I really like Rory. He comes across well and likeable. He isn't as good as when he was younger, but when he was younger he was superb at times. I still think very few will get more then 4 majors over the coming years.

I think the wider point is, players are getting lauded at such a young age, and breaking through at such a high standard, they then drop off at a younger age. Very few stay at a vry high level for a long period of time.

McLaren wrote:

navyblueshorts wrote:
Sorry, that logic doesn't work.

But that was sort of my point, we can't really say why Tiger is more interesting than Brooks, but he is to the vast majority of golf fans and journalists.

Fair point. As to interest with journalists, I think I can shed some light on that - he's their meal ticket, which I hate due to the absurd blanket coverage.

beninho wrote:I really like Rory. He comes across well and likeable. He isn't as good as when he was younger, but when he was younger he was superb at times. I still think very few will get more then 4 majors over the coming years.

I think the wider point is, players are getting lauded at such a young age, and breaking through at such a high standard, they then drop off at a younger age. Very few stay at a vry high level for a long period of time.

Very good point. He's had a very good career, no matter what. Can't help thinking though, that many will say he's underachieved considerably if he doesn't add to that total.

Dustin Johnson on the charge - five birdies in seven holes, including three on the bounce. Just two shots adrift of Kopeka...we might just have a contest.

Fitzpatrick seems to always fightback well in majors after a poor first round!

Duty281 wrote:Dustin Johnson on the charge - five birdies in seven holes, including three on the bounce. Just two shots adrift of Kopeka...we might just have a contest.

Never mind, he's back to where he started now.

Day McIlroy and Mickelson playing the fourth like I would. Military golf.

And still make two birdies and a par

Beemer -4 for the back nine, another birdie and he should make the weekend!

sirbenson wrote:Beemer -4 for the back nine, another birdie and he should make the weekend!

And he does it!!

Is +4 enough to get him in? Doesn’t appear to be at the moment but I suppose it could change.

This takes Live Streaming to a new level.

https://twitter.com/AlexMyers3/status/1129413218156392448

#Rahm-Go

GPB wrote:This takes Live Streaming to a new level.

https://twitter.com/AlexMyers3/status/1129413218156392448

#Rahm-Go

He flushed it.

I've seen Denis Pugh say it a few times, but anyone remember the old drive for show putt for dough line? Thats a thing of the past now. Golf is now all about the big drives, hit it as long as possible.

Will Garcia ever make a cut in a major again! 7 missed cuts in a row in majors!

beninho wrote:I've seen Denis Pugh say it a few times, but anyone remember the old drive for show putt for dough line? Thats a thing of the past now. Golf is now all about the big drives, hit it as long as possible.

Myth. Long ball always has made the most statistical difference to winning. The sad thing is that course designers and tournament venue people seem to think that's all there is now. How can you have a Major where the only realistic winner is someone who hits it out of sight every time?

navyblueshorts wrote:

beninho wrote:I've seen Denis Pugh say it a few times, but anyone remember the old drive for show putt for dough line? Thats a thing of the past now. Golf is now all about the big drives, hit it as long as possible.

Myth. Long ball always has made the most statistical difference to winning. The sad thing is that course designers and tournament venue people seem to think that's all there is now. How can you have a Major where the only realistic winner is someone who hits it out of sight every time?

I think you both have a point, but being long and not in a position where you can play a good shot for your second doesn't give you any gain. We've seen a lot of long hitters get in some deep sh1t at Bethpage by just being a bit off line.

Therefore, I would suggest that length is only a benefit if it leads to a position where you can play a good shot from. No point hitting it 330 if you can't see the ball for the next shot. Being  at 290 yards off the tee but in the middle of the fairway is always preferable to that.


The people who set up golf courses for tournaments really need to narrow fairways and grow longer rough if they want a more skilled player and more interesting tournaments, but that's not the America way by and large.

Players are so good at bombing it, they accept thr risk of being 330 and in rough rathet then 290 in the fairway so they just bomb away more often then not apart from where they have to lay back.

They could all be 290 in the fairway on every hole, but they don't play that game anymore.

Agree Navy. Plus, if the guy ahead of you (Koepka this day) bombs it AND stays in play, a chaser pretty much has no choice but to try and hit it as far as possible. Take your chances in the rough. Rory making a bit of a move, but I fear he's started too far back.

When you can hit a fairway wood 297 yards to the green. HERE

Is there a MDF this week?

Not a lot of low rounds out there it seems.

If Koepka decided to quit the game at this moment, it would be a heck of a tight tournament.

Mighty impressive stuff from last year's champion.

Koepka goes into the final round with a 7 stroke lead. Rather incredible to think barring a final day meltdown the American will have won 4 majors in his last 8 starts(missed 2018 masters). He also let this years masters slip through his fingers. Crazy.

Koepka decided to only work 4 weeks a year.

Although he can still dominate, I used to think professional golf (at least on the big tour) was Rory's sandbox ... but now it appears to be Brook's. It would be a Norman-like collapse to lose this tomorrow. Be very surprised if it happens.

What do people think of John Daly’s request for a buggy at Portrush? I think he should be denied for three reasons: the course normally doesn’t allow it; one should walk for tournament golf; and thirdly - is his bad knee a result of golf or something else? I think it’s because of golf and therefore he’s injured and not disabled.

Are they going to have to think about "Koepka proofing" major championship courses?

Super dominant golf from the Floridian.

Might even describe it as "Heavy Metal" Golf!!

I'm never wrong wrote:What do people think of John Daly’s request for a buggy at Portrush? I think he should be denied for three reasons: the course normally doesn’t allow it; one should walk for tournament golf; and thirdly - is his bad knee a result of golf or something else? I think it’s because of golf and therefore he’s injured and not disabled.

It’s ridicolous. Disabled my ar$e. What’s next?

With Koepka so dominant and TW missing the cut, at least we get to watch other golfers.

Danny Willett sneaking in a good finish it would seem.

Willett blew it, but Matt Wallace should have wrapped up a placeon the PGA Tour next year. And Shane Lowry snuck a top ten to go a long way to retrieving the card he’s spent the last two years throwing away.

Wasn’t expecting anything like the drama we ended up getting. Koepka seemingly is at least slightly human after all. And I think everyone had forgotten how twitchy DJ gets in sight of a major win. US Open at Pebble next, site of his first meltdown of many.

Sorry for jinxing danny w. Seems like it was pretty tough on day 4, I barely watched it though.

Though a course with narrow fairways and some thick rough was won by the big hitters with btookes and dj at t44 fairways hit. Thats golf now.

pedro wrote:

I'm never wrong wrote:What do people think of John Daly’s request for a buggy at Portrush? I think he should be denied for three reasons: the course normally doesn’t allow it; one should walk for tournament golf; and thirdly - is his bad knee a result of golf or something else? I think it’s because of golf and therefore he’s injured and not disabled.

It’s ridicolous. Disabled my ar$e. What’s next?

Golf is sedate enough without being whisked to every shot in a buggy.
He's a chopper these days anyway so will not make the cut.

Appreciate the general comments re buggies but I was forced to rent a buggy last Friday to play otherwise no way to play and I would be giving the game up.
I'm sure JD would play without if he could.

dynamark wrote:Appreciate the general comments re buggies but I was forced to rent a buggy last Friday to play otherwise no way to play and  I would be giving the game up.
I'm sure JD would play without if he could.  

I'm not sure he would to be honest, but I'm 100% behind buggy use if required or even if desired. Gives you somewhere comfy to sit while the inevitable snooty tw@ts peer down their nose at you!

Roller_Coaster wrote:

dynamark wrote:Appreciate the general comments re buggies but I was forced to rent a buggy last Friday to play otherwise no way to play and  I would be giving the game up.
I'm sure JD would play without if he could.  

I'm not sure he would to be honest, but I'm 100% behind buggy use if required or even if desired. Gives you somewhere comfy to sit while the inevitable snooty tw@ts peer down their nose at you!

I have aboslutely no problem with buggies on amateur level, on the contrary. If it can anyway help people getting out playing, that's just fine.
But if you're playing pro golf, no way.

Well there was 10 minutes where it all got a bit exciting. The wind looked pretty brutal at times.

And fans really don't warm to Brooks it seems, shouting DJ's name in Brooks face. Brooks seems like a nice guy, a bit boring, but hardly deserving of the tough crowd. In fact his golf was pretty stellar most of the time.

Like a lot if things in.life, I find it hard to be bothered either way on the buggy front.

Buggies? Re. Daly's use, I don't think he should be allowed one, but if he is, then anyone that wants one should be allowed to use one.

Re. Koepka and so-called 'fans' giving him a hard time, I'm sure he's really concerned as he looks at the Wanamaker this morning. Remind me - how many Majors have Koepka and Johnson, respectively, won again?

Re the fans: I don’t think it is anything more than having a go at someone who is in a bit of trouble. (Phil excepted) I think they would have done the same to DJ if positions reversed.

navyblueshorts wrote:Buggies? Re. Daly's use, I don't think he should be allowed one, but if he is, then anyone that wants one should be allowed to use one.

navyblueshorts wrote:Re. Koepka and so-called 'fans' giving him a hard time, I'm sure he's really concerned as he looks at the Wanamaker this morning. Remind me - how many Majors have Koepka and Johnson, respectively, won again?

He said it fueled him. Just like negative comments from the media fueled him. So he's obvioulsy not that concerned. But the question is more whether he deserves the hard(-ish) time he's getting from fans/media?

pedro wrote:

Roller_Coaster wrote:

dynamark wrote:Appreciate the general comments re buggies but I was forced to rent a buggy last Friday to play otherwise no way to play and  I would be giving the game up.
I'm sure JD would play without if he could.  

I'm not sure he would to be honest, but I'm 100% behind buggy use if required or even if desired. Gives you somewhere comfy to sit while the inevitable snooty tw@ts peer down their nose at you!

I have aboslutely no problem with buggies on amateur level, on the contrary. If it can anyway help people getting out playing, that's just fine.
But if you're playing pro golf, no way.

Sorry, my post wasn't clear. I meant us plebs in our day to day hacking can use buggies with impunity.

In principal pros shouldn't but I wouldn't want to fall foul of any disability legislation which would have to apply to professionals in all walks (no pun intended) of life, even if in this instance JD wouldn't have a hope in he11 of winning.

Regarding Daly, has the PGA set a precedent he'd expect the R&A to follow at Portrush? Good luck with that.

Didn't see much of the tournament, but the course seemed to get progressively more difficult, with Shane Lowry "winning" the weekend at -3, one stroke better than DJ and Rory.

Who will win at Pebble Beach? It won't be Brooksy . . . . . . . .
And how much will the USGA try to trick up their US Open set-up? Extraordinary piece in Golf Digest about their ineptitude but can't find it on-line to link (must be there somewhere, I'll keep looking). Well worth reading though.

The way forward for those of us struggling with poxy osteoarthritis?: www.finnscooters.com

BlueCoverman wrote:The way forward for those of us struggling with poxy osteoarthritis?: www.finnscooters.com

Funky.

Not sure how long your memories go but JD winning the PGA way back was just epic 4th reserve or something driving all night to get there and the moment I remember was the caddie on 18 going 'rip it john' fairy tale stuff and I just loved it at that time .
I know he can be a bit divisive but went on to win the open in a gale in his reebok sweatshirt so can look back on that with pride.
Just chucked a load of cash on steroid injection to avoid the scooter.