Joshua is finished??

As eirebilly said on another thread, Fury is now saying Joshua is "finished" (despite his words of encouragement on Twitter in the immediate aftermath). Does Fury actually believe this, or is he just giving it a bit of trash talk ahead of his own fight?

In my opinion.. Joshua does have issues. He seems a bit robotic, I'd like to see more lateral movement and he doesn't have much head movement. He doesn't seem to have a great engine... seems to react badly when put down. But there are plenty of plus points too. Shot selection, power, a disciplined fighter who can box to a plan. Prior to Ruiz, had a record as good as any current HW (Povetkin, Klitschko, Whyte). It all depends on how he reacts to his loss... whether it re-ignites his hunger, or whether the seeds of doubt have been permanently sown...

I think a refocused Joshua beats Ruiz in a rematch, but.. BUT... can he ever be the main man in the division again?

Fury's just giving trash talk to big his own fight up. Lets be honest a lot of people aren't bothered about his fight unless it's Wilder so he's gotta do something to catch the imagination.

Joshua should beat Ruiz in the rematch but we all said that about the 1st, bet a lot more people watch it this time.

I'm not paying to watch David Bey vs A poor Man's Frank Bruno..

Who is supposed to be like David Bey? Andy Ruiz? I don't get it.

Truss I have no idea who David Bey is so I had to look him up. Think you're doing Andy Ruiz a disservice.

Is Joshua finished? It depends. He's been marketed to within an inch of his life and it's obviously taken its toll on him. He's been floored in sparring and clearly was not "right" during the fight. Some boxers when they lose their "0" go completely to pieces - they aren't unbeaten anymore and their opponents know they are beatable. Others get back up again and show us what they're really capable of. Changes of trainer can make a boxer very successful, but they may not be as exciting - e.g. Wlad.

Anthony Joshua is now a very rich man, and had hoovered up titles after Fury vacated. Were his opponents any good? Not really. The British public love a bloke who can bust people up and be exciting, and Hearn was able to use this to fill stadiums and create big shows that were PPV. I would imagine that a fair chunk of change is sitting in AJ's bank accounts. So the question remains - does he have the desire? Only he can answer that.

In my eyes, he needs to step away from the endorsements and showbiz stuff. He's effectively now a supreme athlete who's been chinned several times by a fat bloke to the average fan. Lennox Lewis was able to rebuild with a change of trainer following the McCall loss, but he was a pretty decent boxer, something Joshua isn't. AJ's no mug, but he doesn't have the boxing nous that Lennox had, and I have no doubts that if they'd met, Lewis would've given him hell.

If Joshua has the mental strength to pull him back from this loss, I think he'll come out all guns blazing and should dispatch Ruiz fairly easily. If not, then does he simply become a HW gatekeeper or does he walk away? He's got enough money to never need to work again. But if the "0" is SO important, why do so many HW legends not have one??

I think the obsession with the "0" is more of a modern era phenomenon... it does seem that high profile prospects are more protected, and fight less frequently than they used to. It was hard to stay undefeated if you were fighting every couple of months.. without the luxury of earning ££££ from fighting 3 hand-picked tomato cans in a year.

All the 'conspiracy' stories (Joshua being knocked out in sparring, panic attack in dressing room, father wanting the fight postponed) have fallen away.

It seems that Joshua just got hit by a concussive punch, left hook behind the ear, in the third round as he was trying to "finish off" Ruiz and never recovered. He never regained full strength in his legs. Normally such a punch would either knock someone out and they wouldn't make the count, or they would make the count and recover. But it seems that Joshua was caught in a halfway house of being concussed and not being able to properly recover.

Yes, that is what most people seem to be saying, and it seems credible. I suppose it's one of the things that makes boxing exciting... that game-changing punch...

No name Bertie wrote:... It seems that Joshua just got hit by a concussive punch, left hook behind the ear, in the third round as he was trying to "finish off" Ruiz and never recovered ...

There is another theory and examining the fight (now available on youtube care of sky sports) I agree with it.

Basically Joshua recovered from his third round knockdown ... but then got beaten again.   In the third round the punch behind the ear impacts on balance (inner ear) which wobbles the legs ... but it was clear Joshua had recovered sometime during the fourth round ... and in the fifth round it was back to two cagey fighters.  

Throughout the fight Ruiz was the one moving forward behind a good defence with Joshua generally on the back foot.  Ruiz especially after his own knockdown in the third - an excellent combination from Joshua - seemed the more alert.  Perhaps Ruiz was vulnerable when Joshua was trying to finish Ruiz off, but Ruiz kept his head and focus and was able to counter and attack Joshua - and then floored Joshua with a left hook behind the ear.   Following that Joshua was wobbly and Ruiz was able to catch him again with a combination attack towards the end of the round.  The bell effectively saved Joshua from defeat in the third round - because although he beat the second count he looked to be an open target for Ruiz to finish off.

The fourth round was a recovery round for Joshua as well as Ruiz - and Ruiz began to target the body.

Fifth round Joshua seemed to have made a full recovery - but it seemed clear he was not sure how to tackle Ruiz - Ruiz always posed a compact moving target -  and seemed more switched on than Jushua - taking Joshua's punches but effective with his own counter punches to the body and head.  In the fifth round there was a period of time when Joshua seemed to switch off as if he was wondering how exactly he was supposed to be tackling Ruiz.  Notice how Joshua stands tall one moment and then crouches low to Ruiz height the next moment.

The sixth round continued as per the fifth with Joshua perhaps starting out more aggressively.  But it seemed that Joshua was more and more bamboozled about how to get to Ruiz without being countered - Ruiz had no problems landing body and head counters.  And then mid way through the sixth Joshua just seemed to gas out - became very tired and Ruiz began to land punches on Joshua's body and head with ease.

In the seventh Ruiz mounted a combination attack on a gassed Joshua and Joshua had nothing left to resist it.

Ultimately I am returning back to my initial impressions of Joshua being outclassed and ultimately unprepared for the challenge that Ruiz provided.

I don't think this was a different Joshua to the one that faced for example a Carlos Takam.  It was Ruiz's compact fighting style, his ability to remain switched on at all times, his ability to get through Joshua's defences and land and his power that was Joshua's downfall.



ps: If you look at Ruiz's build you see he is barrel chested - has a wider and deeper chest than Joshua - indicative of larger lungs and a larger heart (greater oxygen supply) than Joshua.   Ruiz could lose many pounds of flab around his abdomen but he carries it reasonably well.  Joshua seems to carry a lot of bulk muscle which although gives him power requires a high oxygen supply.

pps: the rematch should be fascinating.  Without Joshua improving his skills I see the rematch going the same way as the first match - either Joshua knocking Ruiz out early with a well mounted attack - or Ruiz taking control of the fight in the later rounds.

David Bey beat Buster Douglas and Greg Page...Should have beaten an unbeaten Biggs too.

If anything I'm doing Bey a disservice.

Anyway watch Biggs v Bey when you have a spare 20 mins and you will see the similarities..

RIP to David by the way...Tragic way to go..

Skip to 4:30 in - this shows how Ruiz outboxed Joshua.

A lot of pure speculation, Bertie. We don't know if Joshua really did recover from being buzzed in the third... yes he appeared to regain his composure.. and that's obviously what he wanted his opponent to think. I really don't know.

Also I don't think we can say that Ruiz "outclassed" Joshua.. when you match up their records, there's no evidence that Ruiz is a higher level operator (loss to Parker, UDs against nobodies). But styles make fights, and all that... no doubt that Ruiz won fair and square..

For once I found some of what Fury said to actually make sense. I said in the last thread that Joshua looked like he didn't want to be there and what struck me was how he was gassing after a round and a half before Ruiz landed much on him.

Another user said there were problems in the training camp which could explain it but Joshua's body language before that fight was all wrong. Could mean he doesn't want it anymore.

Hope we have another upset and Schwartz sparks Fury, doubtful but you never know……..

Mr Bounce wrote:Truss I have no idea who David Bey is so I had to look him up. Think you're doing Andy Ruiz a disservice.

Yes definitely, Ruiz was decent. Fast hands and decent power. Not the worst champion you ever saw given some of the fighters holding belts before K2 annexed the division.

smashingstormcrow wrote:Who is supposed to be like David Bey? Andy Ruiz? I don't get it.

David Bey was a boxer who fought in the 80's. He was overweight but not as overweight as Ruiz. I didn't know he had died until I read Truss's comment.

R.I.P. David Bey and Smokin Bert Cooper, who died recently.