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The Sponsors and Advertising Discussion Thread

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Post by the-goon on Mon 10 Jun 2019, 3:20 pm

First topic message reminder :

There will always be good reason to discuss the influence and the effects of corporate money input sport.

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Post by Collapse2005 on Tue 11 Jun 2019, 1:07 pm

Heaf wrote:
Rinsure wrote:So I think Deageo are the second sponsor to review their position / pull out regarding Jackson's signing. I read that Cash Convertors have also pulled sponsorship.

I'm not sure what value that has to the club, but if it proves to be the start of a chain reaction, then it could prove a problem for Irish.

He's an objectionable person, but he was found innocent. There were similar issues about that footballer who served his sentence, and was re-signed (Karl something, Sheff Utd?? Might be mis-remembering). Rightly or wrongly, there is nothing to stop him playing for whomever he likes.

Apparently Cash Converters and LI ended the arrangement BEFORE any signings were announced, so they look like they are making a cynical attempt to 'cash-in' on the story - bit like their business model really, taking advantage of others' misfortune ...

Diageos timing is interesting alright.

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Post by Pete330v2 on Tue 11 Jun 2019, 2:24 pm

"He's an objectionable person"

You know him personally I take it?

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Post by SirBurger on Tue 11 Jun 2019, 2:31 pm

How have we reached the point where a faction of society are not willing to give a man a second chance for something he didn't even do (in respect of the abusive messages sent)? The only logical conclusion is that these people are not really protesting the content of the messages (as pointed out, Gilroy got off scot-free), but instead are protesting the outcome of the trial. I find this truly horrifying.

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Post by Collapse2005 on Tue 11 Jun 2019, 2:45 pm

SirBurger wrote:How have we reached the point where a faction of society are not willing to give a man a second chance for something he didn't even do (in respect of the abusive messages sent)? The only logical conclusion is that these people are not really protesting the content of the messages (as pointed out, Gilroy got off scot-free), but instead are protesting the outcome of the trial. I find this truly horrifying.

Agreed, its shocking, I would understand if there were lots of details of the trail that simply don't add up and it seemed obvious that someone got away with a crime. However, that really doesn't seem to be the case at all here based on all details in the media.

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Post by Brendan on Tue 11 Jun 2019, 2:48 pm

I wonder how many of the people protesting have gone to France when he was there.  Olding getting a player of the division award in Pro D2.  I guess the protesters only think their view matters in an English speaking world, or more likely only the English speaking world is driven by social media and the judge Dread justice.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Tue 11 Jun 2019, 2:54 pm

These things were easier to keep quiet in the good old days.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Tue 11 Jun 2019, 2:57 pm

Was there ever a definitive answer on whether Irish will be able to play all their foreign stars?

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Post by Rinsure on Tue 11 Jun 2019, 2:59 pm

Pete330v2 wrote:"He's an objectionable person"

You know him personally I take it?

No, and it's a valid point. My attitude to him is based on the facts around the case, which while not enough to convict him, were enough to convince me - not in a court of law - that he is not someone I would want to associate with. Hence my objection to him. I appreciate my moral compass is not the be-all-and-end-all, but that is my opinion based on the facts I know.

I don't think I'm in the minority, either.

That said, I'm going to stick to rugby now!

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Post by TightHEAD on Tue 11 Jun 2019, 3:12 pm

What a society we live in whereby trial by media and hearsay is taken more seriously than a court of law finding someone not guilty when presented with the facts.

I don't know him, maybe he is a little **** but surely he gets another chance?
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Post by Collapse2005 on Tue 11 Jun 2019, 3:28 pm

Aside from a colourful message in a private chat and an unsubstantiated accusation there isn't a lot to suggest he is a terrible person. No worse than a large section of players in my view anyway.

I would nearly say the recent antics of the two former Leinster players are worse.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Tue 11 Jun 2019, 4:37 pm

Out of interest is there a majority of support for Jackson et all in Ireland?

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Post by Collapse2005 on Tue 11 Jun 2019, 4:46 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Out of interest is there a majority of support for Jackson et all in Ireland?

Hard to tell. As with most western countries there is a large cohort of unemployed gender studies students who have nothing better to do with their time than to protest over matters they don't really understand nor in many cases do they want to understand they simply want to believe that there is something noble to protest about as is their want having just completed a degree in a subject that qualifies them for little else.

They tend to make the most noise while privately I'm sure a significant portion of the population think he should be left alone to get on with his life.

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Post by clivemcl on Tue 11 Jun 2019, 5:07 pm

Of you think there aren't plenty of 'objectionable' people across all pro sporting teams, you live in a fantasy land.

The unfortunate thing here is that an accusation alone is enough to get you taken to court and all your private messages read out to the public. And then in the end, after your private chat has been uncovered to the world (ruining your career), and it was determined there was no evidence of your guilt, you won't get so much as an apology for the invasion of privacy.

And despite the ruining of somebodies career and invasion of privacy without evidence there is also nobody holding to account those in the world who still quite publicly claim him to be 'guilty'.

For me, the system should either not be allowed to name those charged or at least not make public the trial details until the jury decision is made. If guilty, all details released, if not guilty, media band remains.

But of course, in 2019 we apparently still can't trust juries and judges not to be biased towards the male, and that's why it's all public so every top dick and harry can make their own judgements and cherry pick which ever parts of the trial they want to support their view.

It's just not right.

I don't like what he was involved in, nor do I like his messages or language, but I don't believe it was right for the public to hear it all based on so little.

There are many like Jackson and much worse in whatever sports team you follow. I guarantee it.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Tue 11 Jun 2019, 5:08 pm

Ah. The silent majority etc vs the educated!

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Post by Brendan on Tue 11 Jun 2019, 5:32 pm

Back to the rugby are Irish in danger of not having enough EQ players to get the RFU payment or did they just not have alot of foreigners to begin with. Most of the players signed seem to be starters who will be available for all their games (no boosting with academy players during the internationals)

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Post by Collapse2005 on Tue 11 Jun 2019, 5:44 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Ah. The silent majority etc vs the educated!

You set a low bar if you consider a gender studies student as educated in this context. How about a judge?

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Post by SirBurger on Tue 11 Jun 2019, 5:51 pm

Brendan wrote:Back to the rugby are Irish in danger of not having enough EQ players to get the RFU payment or did they just not have alot of foreigners to begin with.  Most of the players signed seem to be starters who will be available for all their games (no boosting with academy players during the internationals)

EQ payments are not significant. I think it is based over all three competitions though, so imagine we will be under for Premiership games, but then try and use the cup matches to up the average. If we miss out on the payments but stay in the league it will probably be a price worth paying.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Tue 11 Jun 2019, 6:01 pm

Just a joke collapse. Theres plenty of highly educated people who would want people to accept rulings and welcome people back to continue their lives as if nothing happened.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Tue 11 Jun 2019, 6:03 pm

What's your anticipated match day squad then burger.

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Post by The Great Aukster on Tue 11 Jun 2019, 6:14 pm

Who is complaining about Jackson going to LI - have they received bundles of letters from disgruntled fans?
Has the fire on social media been lit and fanned by Diageo?
Have LI invoked a bigger sponsorship clause conditional on promotion?
Could Cash Converters and Diageo both have been looking for a way out of their contracts?

Given the context it is ironic that it all comes down to how much bang you get for your buck.

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Post by LeinsterFan4life on Tue 11 Jun 2019, 6:28 pm

I'm sorry, but do people actually believe these companies have some sort of moral code that they follow? This is nothing more than great advertising for these companies.I had never heard of cash converters before but from looking on LI fans forum they are delighted they are gone which just shows what kind of a company they are.

Also Connacht have serious egg on their face now that they refused to let Sevu Reece to the club. Nobody is talking about his past (which is far worse than both Olding and Jackson) and he's now being lined up by the ABs.

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Post by Heaf on Tue 11 Jun 2019, 6:33 pm

LI state they separated from Cash Converters before PJ was signed so if that's true it appears they may be being deliberately misleading about the circumstances in an attempt to take the moral high ground to divert attention from their morally questionable business/interest rates ... personally I'm glad to see the back of them.

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Post by SirBurger on Tue 11 Jun 2019, 6:35 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:What's your anticipated match day squad then burger.

Think I did this a few pages ago, but best 23 on paper (not my preferred 23) is probably:

1. Dell
2. Matu'u
3. Kepu
4. Coleman
5. Botha
6. Ioane
7. O'Brien (big if)
8. Rogerson

9. Phipps
10. Jackson
11. Loader
12. Hepetema
13. Rona
14. Naholo
15. Veitokani

Bench: Porecki, Hobbs-Awoyemi, Hoskins, Van der Merwe, Tuisue, Meehan, Myler, Parton/Stephenson

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Tue 11 Jun 2019, 6:41 pm

So can they field that with the 2 foreigner rule? Or is it going to be heavy rotation.

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Post by SirBurger on Tue 11 Jun 2019, 9:07 pm

As far as I am aware, all of them are Kolpak covered due to various passport arrangements.

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Post by yappysnap on Wed 12 Jun 2019, 12:46 am

How many academy players there? Genuinely curious, will fans be happy to see their club lose its identity and become a barbarians side if it means they do well, or would fans prefer more academy players and EQ players but potential worse results?

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Post by Margin_Walker on Wed 12 Jun 2019, 5:58 am

There will actually be more academy graduates in the senior squad next year than we've had in s long time. Flown under the radar a bit but 7 have been promoted from the academy for next season (Loader, Parton, Brand, Williams, Atkins, Curtis-Harris, Cooke). Would expect a few of those to break through and receive a decent amount of GP gametime next season, before making their debuts for Bath in 2020.

We lose our best English players every summer. Even this summer we lost McNally who will leave a big hole in the squad. I'm willing to take a punt on a few big name foreigners to attempt to break that cycle.


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Post by No 7&1/2 on Wed 12 Jun 2019, 7:23 am

Fair enough couldn't find anywhere which said New Zealand and Australia were kolpac.

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Post by Margin_Walker on Wed 12 Jun 2019, 7:44 am

NZ and Aus aren't kolpak, but the players in question would have family ties to countries that are (enough to get a passport). Coleman (Tonga), Naholo (Fiji) etc. Having international caps for another country doesn't impact this.

For example even Ben Franks wasn't classed as a foreigner when he was with us as he had an English mother.

Not sure if Phipps has an English grannie knocking around. He's the only one I wouldn't be sure on

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Wed 12 Jun 2019, 8:10 am

Ah. Makes sense then.

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Post by SecretFly on Wed 12 Jun 2019, 9:02 am

It's a bit like six degrees of separation - find a concept that lets everyone claim a 'playability' loophole.

...incidentally, which makes the idea that NZ and Aus are outside kolpac, yet have the British Monarch as their Head of State, a might weird in a funny way. The warped world of crazy politics continues into and through sport.

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Post by SirBurger on Wed 12 Jun 2019, 9:18 am

yappysnap wrote:How many academy players there? Genuinely curious, will fans be happy to see their club lose its identity and become a barbarians side if it means they do well, or would fans prefer more academy players and EQ players but potential worse results?

Having supported Irish for 11 or 12 seasons, the one thing I can say is that the only period where we have had any success in retaining our top academy talent for more than one or two seasons is when we had international stars. You need success to allow these guys to break through and then keep their place in the side. If the likes of Kepu, Coleman and Naholo can keep us safe then it will be a better environment for these young lads to make their name. Personally, I don't feel like we owe England anything. I am a club fan first and international fan second. Of course, it is nice if we produce England talent, but we are the "Exiles" and I am just as happy seeing us pluck a relative unknown from the pacific islands and allow him to earn a few quid and help out his family back home.

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Wed 12 Jun 2019, 10:40 am

Margin_Walker wrote:NZ and Aus aren't kolpak, but the players in question would have family ties to countries that are (enough to get a passport). Coleman (Tonga), Naholo (Fiji) etc. Having international caps for another country doesn't impact this.

For example even Ben Franks wasn't classed as a foreigner when he was with us as he had an English mother.

Not sure if Phipps has an English grannie knocking around. He's the only one I wouldn't be sure on

I remember when Mauger signed for Tigers in order to get him in and not count towards the foreign rule there was some family tree work done and he had a Haitian mother/grandmother who was able to claim French citizenship through some convoluted scheme and so he was able to as well.

Tigers were also over the moon when Argentine loosehead Marcos Ayerza married his Spanish girlfriend and could claim Spanish citizenship.

I guess the legal advisors make a lot of money out of this fun and games.

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Post by Margin_Walker on Wed 12 Jun 2019, 11:09 am

Yep, it's all good fun. You really have to go out if your way to actually fall into the 'foreign' player classification.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Wed 12 Jun 2019, 11:17 am

Highlights again how difficult it is to bring in rules for competitions. Presumably a majority of prl clubs have agreed to this rule but theres some/all who realise they have no intention of keeping to the spirit?

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Post by Irish Londoner on Thu 13 Jun 2019, 9:57 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:Highlights again how difficult it is to bring in rules for competitions. Presumably a majority of prl clubs have agreed to this rule but theres some/all who realise they have no intention of keeping to the spirit?

So like the Salary Cap rules then ? :-)

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Post by SecretFly on Thu 13 Jun 2019, 10:43 am

Oh we is gonna keep to the spirit okay.  We like the spirit of it all...and all...  ; but we ain't gonna be tied to the laws of the spirit, coz it's against our human rights as carbon based units of Planet Earth.

So from next season, we're going to play 18 players per game, + 18 subs.  Other teams can do what they feel suits them.  If they want to stick to the rule of 15 players on the field, we'll support their right to do so

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Thu 13 Jun 2019, 10:50 am

Exactly Irish.

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Post by LondonTiger on Thu 13 Jun 2019, 10:57 am

SecretFly wrote:Oh we is gonna keep to the spirit okay.  We like the spirit of it all...and all...  ; but we ain't gonna be tied to the laws of the spirit, coz it's against our human rights as carbon based units of Planet Earth.

So from next season, we're going to play 18 players per game, + 18 subs.  Other teams can do what they feel suits them.  If they want to stick to the rule of 15 players on the field, we'll support their right to do so

Oi, do not exclude Transhumans from this debate.

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Post by bluestonevedder on Thu 13 Jun 2019, 2:23 pm

By all accounts it is Sean O'Brien who has recently been on the war path and has been in front of the IRFU committee.

https://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/leinster-rugby/irish-star-sean-obrien-in-probe-by-irfu-amid-allegations-of-incident-in-pub-38195392.html

You can find out what the incident was pretty easily, but let's just say it won't wash away easily.

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Post by SecretFly on Thu 13 Jun 2019, 2:27 pm

It's been out awhile, bluestone..... I mean the story not the..... I ... I ..mean ...he put it away when he was finished. At least he had the decency to do that much.

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Post by bluestonevedder on Thu 13 Jun 2019, 2:45 pm

SecretFly wrote:It's been out awhile, bluestone..... I mean the story not the.....  I ... I ..mean ...he put it away when he was finished.  At least he had the decency to do that much.

Bet he didn't wash his hands though!

The IRFU have done well to keep it under wraps. I imagine if this was an England player it would be everywhere.

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Post by Collapse2005 on Thu 13 Jun 2019, 2:45 pm

bluestonevedder wrote:By all accounts it is Sean O'Brien who has recently been on the war path and has been in front of the IRFU committee.

https://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/leinster-rugby/irish-star-sean-obrien-in-probe-by-irfu-amid-allegations-of-incident-in-pub-38195392.html

You can find out what the incident was pretty easily, but let's just say it won't wash away easily.

Can you imagine how many people would be out protesting if he had done what he did to a woman? He didn't though so it will all blow over fairly quickly.

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Post by Collapse2005 on Thu 13 Jun 2019, 2:45 pm

bluestonevedder wrote:
SecretFly wrote:It's been out awhile, bluestone..... I mean the story not the.....  I ... I ..mean ...he put it away when he was finished.  At least he had the decency to do that much.

Bet he didn't wash his hands though!

The IRFU have done well to keep it under wraps. I imagine if this was an England player it would be everywhere.

Haha. He definitely didn't.

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Post by Pete330v2 on Thu 13 Jun 2019, 2:53 pm

bluestonevedder wrote:
SecretFly wrote:It's been out awhile, bluestone..... I mean the story not the.....  I ... I ..mean ...he put it away when he was finished.  At least he had the decency to do that much.

Bet he didn't wash his hands though!

The IRFU have done well to keep it under wraps. I imagine if this was an England player it would be everywhere.

Can English players not aim then?

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Post by bluestonevedder on Thu 13 Jun 2019, 3:20 pm

Pete330v2 wrote:
bluestonevedder wrote:
SecretFly wrote:It's been out awhile, bluestone..... I mean the story not the.....  I ... I ..mean ...he put it away when he was finished.  At least he had the decency to do that much.

Bet he didn't wash his hands though!

The IRFU have done well to keep it under wraps. I imagine if this was an England player it would be everywhere.

Can English players not aim then?

Not at all- terrible aim. Rumour has it EJ has requested that they all sit down when they go now.

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Post by SecretFly on Thu 13 Jun 2019, 4:48 pm

bluestonevedder wrote:

The IRFU have done well to keep it under wraps. I imagine if this was an England player it would be everywhere.

Yes, a good quality condom has many uses.  A bit late for O'Brien but now I think they'll be mandatory  kit for boy's nights out in future.  Blue and yellow of course for a bit of free advertising.

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Post by Cyril on Thu 13 Jun 2019, 5:34 pm

What did he do?

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Post by Collapse2005 on Thu 13 Jun 2019, 5:41 pm

He got drunk and peed on someone in a bar.

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The Sponsors and Advertising Discussion Thread - Page 2 Empty Re: The Sponsors and Advertising Discussion Thread

Post by Cyril on Thu 13 Jun 2019, 5:53 pm

Lovely! Laugh

Cyril

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The Sponsors and Advertising Discussion Thread - Page 2 Empty Re: The Sponsors and Advertising Discussion Thread

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