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Chances of Khan/Brook happening??!!

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Chances of Khan/Brook happening??!! Empty Chances of Khan/Brook happening??!!

Post by smashingstormcrow on Thu 20 Jun 2019, 9:58 am

It's hard to say what Khan wants, when he talks such nonsense and often contradicts himself. In the space of a single day, he seems to be saying that "I don't really care" if Brook retires or not... then saying "In Britain it would be a huge fight"... and then "if the fight comes on the table I will take it"!!! But anyway, he seems much more receptive to the fight than he did a couple of years ago.

It seems that these two guys are no longer really even part of the conversation when it comes to the world's top Welterweights. They can either keep angling for fights against the likes of Crawford, Pacquiao, Porter... and lose... or just get on with it and fight each other for that final domestic showdown.

OK they're both shop-worn... but I'd like to see it. It's still a good match-up, with two entertaining fighters. It makes financial sense. It makes sporting sense (in that it would settle the argument for best British WW/LMW). It's what the fans want. There's genuine beef between them. Personally, I'm hopeful that we'll finally get to see this fight, maybe in December.

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Post by Just John on Thu 20 Jun 2019, 11:16 am

Don't particularly believe that there's still demand for this fight. Sky seem to keep making them relevant, but they're both shot, and well past their best. It was painful watching Brook vs Zerafa, and Khan looked terrible vs Vargas. Brook is the more desperate out of the two, seeing as Khan has already secured his future, with this £7m purse in Saudi Arabia.

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Post by smashingstormcrow on Fri 21 Jun 2019, 2:48 pm

I dunno, I think there's demand. The casual fans love a good domestic grudge match. And I'm interested in it myself... yes Amir appears to be past his peak, but I still enjoy watching him... with those fast hands, neat combinations... but lingering precariousness. And it can still be seen as a contest for the best British welterweight of their era, IMO.

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Post by Mr Bounce on Fri 21 Jun 2019, 10:59 pm

I personally couldn't give two hoots about it. Much like the Mayweather-Pacquiao fight it should have been made 5 years previously. Both have their virtues, both are not as good as they used to be and there are question marks over Khan's chin and Brook's vulnerability. Not interested.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Wed 26 Jun 2019, 3:25 pm

I agree with Mr Bounce...

Would have liked to have seen it in the past...But not that bothered now..

Shame.

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Post by smashingstormcrow on Wed 26 Jun 2019, 9:53 pm

Well, stop the press, because we're now getting the fight the fans have been asking for all along. Amir Khan vs Billy Dib - Australia's top featherweight!

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Post by Derbymanc on Thu 27 Jun 2019, 8:38 am

I thought Khan was fighting someone in Saudi Arabia?

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Post by smashingstormcrow on Thu 27 Jun 2019, 12:42 pm

Derbymanc wrote:I thought Khan was fighting someone in Saudi Arabia?

He is. He was supposed to be facing some Indian fighter that I'd never heard of, but he's now been replaced with the one and only Billy "The Kid" Dib.

I mean... to all intents and purposes, it's an exhibition. A showcase in the middle east, against an obviously overmatched opponent. But surely they could have done better than this rubbish.

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Post by aja424 on Sat 11 Jul 2020, 12:32 am

I can remember being really excited about Brook when he came onto the scene, I really enjoy watching his style of boxing. Too many bs fights, inactivity and injuries, and in a flash he is old and his career is as good as over. A damn shame imo.

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Post by 88Chris05 on Sat 11 Jul 2020, 1:59 am

Brook's career is a monument of mismanagement, largely stemming from his and Hearn's embarrassing obsession with Khan, which started the very moment Brook joined Matchroom in 2011. Khan was fighting at a much higher level and was the smaller man (still at 140 lb until 2013). Brook's priotory should have been proving himself against the better Welters and trying to make a major name for himself, rather than trying to piggy back off Khan's, who wasn't even in the same weight class at that point. Instead, that stuff seemed almost an afterthought. He'd been a professional for a full decade before he finally contested that world title against Porter, which admittedly was a very good win.

By this point I was more sympathetic about him chasing the Khan fight, because he was bringing something to the table and Khan had been brought back down a peg or two by the losses to Peterson (albeit he was jobbed) and Garcia, and a couple of other unconvincing performances even in victory. He couldn't claim to be operating on a higher level to Brook anymore, as he could from 2009-2013.

Problem is, Brook was still treating it as a 'Khan or nothing' situation. If it wasn't Khan, then he (or Hearn, more accurately) wasn't interested in anything too taxing or risky, hence some of the poor defences Brook had lined up after becoming champion. Does anyone really believe they couldn't have done any better than Dan, Gavin and Bizier for his first three defences? No doubting Brook's talent, but he somehow acquired quite the reputation for someone who fought and beat so few quality fighters, despite having ample time to do so.

I don't think for one second Hearn ever believed Brook had a prayer against Golovkin, but he simply knew at that point that the fans wouldn't swallow another poor defence for Brook. He saw it as a convenient out to satisfy the critics, and knew it was decent money for Kell, who in theory had nothing to lose as everyone knew it was mission impossible anyway. But it was a totally unnecessary beating which Brook didn't need to take, and hardly ideal preparation for Spence. I think it's fair to say that the Golovkin fight was another bad move for Brook which backfired. Did nothing much for his profile, confidence or record.

I was a fan of Brook for a while, but for me he became a little overrated on the back of a very thin resume, and I think he flattered to deceive at the highest level on the few occasions be got anywhere near there. The inactivity, diet of overmatched opponents and boring chasing of Khan (which persists to this day - who cares anymore?) all made me tire of Brook in the end, and I pretty much lost interest in his career around 2016.
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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Sat 11 Jul 2020, 8:16 am

Think if Brook hadn't fought GGG he beats Spence and becomes a Top 7 P4per.....Certainly believe the facial damage left a scar (pardon the pun)...

I give Brook a little more of a pass... GGG v Brook was Hearn's fault...Had a big PPV night optioned with GGG and realised Eubank didn't fancy it... So Brook jumped in to save it...Certainly took balls.

I blame Khan for Brook v Khan....The kid doesn't want to lose to a fellow Brit...Has the balls but his ego won't risk it..

Have time for Kell but I agree....Frankie Gavin types ruined a lot of prime potential.

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Post by 88Chris05 on Sat 11 Jul 2020, 12:43 pm

I agree that Khan, for whatever reason (personally I think a peak Khan beats Brook), wasn't bothered about the fight. From 2011-13 he was within his rights to say that he had bigger fish to fry than Brook and that Brook should have been concentrating on his own weight class, in which he still had it all to do, rather than trying to make a fight off a smaller guy's name.

By 2014 the balance of things between them had changed so I had no issues with Brook goading Khan and repeatedly calling him out then. But within a year of that it was becoming clear that Khan wasn't interesting in round robins with the other dangerous Welters out there and was all about chasing the big money (and undeserved) fights with Mayweather, Canelo etc. He was more interested in being a celebrity by that stage, rather than a prize fighter. Brook and Matchroom should have just cut their losses and moved on from Khan at that point - it's not as if they desperately needed him. Welterweight was full of good fights for them. Yet they persisted in making their whole career plan about Khan. Even with Khan in hibernation for two years after the Canelo loss they persisted with it.

Meanwhile, as aja424 points out, almost without anyone noticing Brook was quietly getting on in years and the big time has passed him by. He's become an afterthought, and much of it is his own (and his team's) doing.
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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Sat 11 Jul 2020, 12:57 pm

To be fair if he beat Spence....Chances are he would have fought Thurman and Manny by now and either become a legend or been a respected champion..

The loss to GGG and then Spence back to back pretty much stalled his career more than Khan...

While I agree he spent too much time on Khan his career was salvageable he just lost his biggest fights..

Fighting GGG was following in the great 147 tradition from Armstrong...Paret...Griffiths...Robbo...Leonard....Hearns...

Basilio...He got starry eyed and ambition isn't a vice.

But his injury did leave scars..

Spence was the key for Brook...It didn't fit the lock.

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Post by Mr Bounce on Sun 12 Jul 2020, 11:10 pm

Spence was unusual in that he was an IBF mandatory who was actually a pretty special fighter. I don't think there's any shame in Brook losing to him, but I agree that the Golovkin fight broke Brook. The Spence fight could have been more competitive, but it was that GGG beatdown which put the doubt in Brook's mind. I don't agree with Truss' reckoning on Brook - I think Spence beats Brook 9 times out of 10. Brook was half decent, just not top-step. Spence is closer to that.

With Khan I think his career started going downhill around the time he was cheated out of the Peterson fight. Some shocking goings on in that fight. He took Garcia lightly and with his suspect chin if Danny connected well it was goodnight. The Canelo fight was a wallet-filler - one he was very unlikely to win. He did look good in that fight initially, out-speeding the Mexican and leading on one of the 3 scorecards, but he was always going to be KO'd as soon as Alvarez found the target. Aside from the ridiculous fight against Dib and the fairly impressive destruction of Lo Greco, I feel he's done, certainly at the top table - Crawford showed us that.

A fight with Brook is the only thing that's left, really. But I don't want to pay to watch two fighters at the end of their careers looking like shells of their former selves.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Mon 13 Jul 2020, 8:54 am

Must have been someone else outboxing Spence and winning until his eye went..

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Post by Mr Bounce on Mon 13 Jul 2020, 8:06 pm

I always felt that Spence had the edge in that fight and knew exactly what he was doing. Bearing in mind he was fighting in his champion opponent's back yard, if you take away the knockdowns, it was close, but certainly not in Brook's favour as much as you reckon Truss. The pressure was getting to Brook and once the damage was done, it was curtains. I do rate Spence and I wish he and Crawford would fight, but neither party seems too bothered about getting it sorted.

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Post by 88Chris05 on Tue 14 Jul 2020, 1:17 am

Got to agree with Mr Bounce on this - I thought Spence beat Brook handily enough. Brook had his moments and showed that Spence can be countered and made to look a bit wild at times, and it was pretty close for about six rounds. But Spence had been on top for a couple of rounds before the eye gave out, for me. My main criticism of Brook is that he's always been a bit of a one-paced fighter and I think this fight is an indicator of that. He really struggled with Spence's physicality and inside fighting. Brook looked better when he tried to pick up the pace and initiate more exchanges, but he couldn't do it regularly enough. Spence also put in a lot of good body work which went unnoticed by the Sky team, and that's another area where Brook was a distinct second-best.

Without the busted eye, could Brook have pulled it off? Maybe, though I still have my doubts. But either way, Spence was having his first world title fight and had never gone deeper than eight rounds before, so was inexperienced in comparison to Brook. Given he had home advantage, if Brook was ever going to beat Spence, surely that would have been the occasion - and he didn't manage it, despite having those things in his favour. Again, I'm with Bounce on this. I think Brook just lost to a better fighter, and that fight was a pretty good indicator of where his abilities lie. Very good, but not good enough to be the cream of any particularly strong division. I have no idea what some of the Sky cronies were watching, I know that much.

That said, horrendous as they were, Sky weren't as bad there as they were for Bellew-Usyk. Lordy. I can still remember wanting to put my foot through the TV screen when Smith, in perfect seriousness, said that the knockout punch had come, "out of the blue." This despite it being one-way traffic for at least three rounds beforehand, and Bellew looking ragged and clearly hurt at least twice before. Not as great a fan of Malginaggi the commentator as a lot of others, but I've got to hand it to him for being the only guy willing to talk any sense that night. It was verging on cheerleading.
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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Tue 14 Jul 2020, 2:03 pm

Handily enough ??

Brook completely outboxed him tell his eye went...

After six....

Froch....Brook up.
Bellew...Brook 3 up..
"Americans behind us have Brook a few ahead"

I had Brook 5 up...Schooling.

All the judges had him ahead..

The eye went so did Brooks belt..

After his problems with GGG...Safe to say anyone would be spooked.


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Post by 88Chris05 on Tue 14 Jul 2020, 3:02 pm

Just not the fight I saw, Truss. I know the Sky team had Brook well in front for a while, as I've already said I don't take that too seriously as they had a very vested interest in doing so and I think they were making zero effort to be balanced or fair. Pretty sure Porter was in attendance and said he had it level after six, which is closer to the truth (can't give Brook anything after that point). Pretty sure there were another couple of dissenting voices which Sky mentioned who also didn't see this Brook masterclass, but that's by the by. I could just as easily cite the three judges' cards which all had Spence up at the time of the stoppage, two of them pretty clearly, which indicates they didn't see Brook dominating early on, either.

No doubt that Brook's eye was a tipping point which helped turn it decisively in Spence's favour, but I maintain he was in the ascendancy beforehand and I think the evidence suggests that Spence's superior power, body punching and conditioning down the stretch would have put him in a strong position to win even without the injury. In any case the injury was caused and then worsened by Spence consistently hitting the target.

I'm not bashing Brook, but with the experience and home town advantages he held I'd say that was his best chance to beat Spence, and he fell short. No shame in that and he lost to a quality fighter. I just don't think he was as unlucky as a lot of others seem to.
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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Tue 14 Jul 2020, 3:18 pm

I respect your opinion Chris....Just that you and bouncy I imagine are a little disappointed Khan v Brook didn't get made and are looking to eachother for confirmation bias..

I'm certainly guilty as charged often enough..

Fact is Brook was superb early against Porter.....Completely outboxed him..

I was shocked I both predicted and wanted Spence to win..

Porter's view was an outlier...Lost his value after Brook for a while..

Brook's performance before injury against a current top p4per in Spence was enough to show he wasn't finished by any extent...

Like I said he beats Spence he hasn't wasted his career and goes on to bettter things...He loses and it becomes a case of him wasting his career over Khan in your eyes..

Slim margins in my opinion and not a slam dunk.....GGG ruined Brook to a certain extent because of the facial damage and the mental baggage but I never saw Brook better than he was in the first six against Spence....He got unlucky.


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Post by Mr Bounce on Tue 14 Jul 2020, 4:38 pm

I'm not actually down on Brook. I just think he lost to the better fighter on the night, and like you say, the GGG injury was always in his head, and that played a big part. Just don't think he was quite good enough when it mattered.

At virtually any point in their careers, I think Brook beats Khan, but as stated somewhere up there ^^^^ at this point in their boxing life, I genuinely don't care anymore. It's like Bowe-Lewis and Hatton-Witter. The respective fans all have their favourites and the reasons for them. I don't think they'll fight but if they do, it'll be a PPV bag of sh** and it'll probably end controversially so nobody's happy.

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