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ICC Cricket World Cup - Part 3

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Post by LondonTiger Fri 21 Jun 2019, 2:26 pm

First topic message reminder :

Table

Australia8141.00
India7110.85
New Zealand8110.57
England8101.00
Pakistan89-0.80
Sri Lanka88-0.93
Bangladesh77-0.13
South Africa85-0.08
West Indies83-0.36
Afghanistan80-1.42
Remaining Pool Fixtures

Tue, Jul 2 
10:30 Bangladesh vs India (Edgbaston)

Wed, Jul 3 
10:30 England vs New Zealand (Riverside Ground)

Thu, Jul 4 
10:30 Afghanistan vs West Indies (Headingley)

Fri, Jul 5 
10:30 Bangladesh vs Pakistan (Lord’s)

Sat, Jul 6 
10:30 India vs Sri Lanka (Headingley)
13:30 Australia vs South Africa (Old Trafford)




Knock Out Fixtures


To Follow


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Post by Duty281 Thu 27 Jun 2019, 2:24 pm

268/7. Dhoni and Pandya have probably propelled India to a safe score.

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Post by eirebilly Thu 27 Jun 2019, 2:27 pm

That should be enough for India.

I cant describe just how much I dislike that Cottrell celebration though.
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Post by KP_fan Thu 27 Jun 2019, 2:29 pm

India huffed, puffed, scampered and finished with what I think is a defendable total.
No one knows whats par any more in this world cup......as pressure is playing a huge role.

The pitch has spin, some nibble for seamers, uneven bounce....but India's batting has started turning into jelly.....under pressures of
a- world cup situations
b- knowledge that they have no batting after No.7...so they play within themselves trying to conserve wickets.

Next game I think we need Dhoni to bat at 4, Jadhav 5, Bring Pant in at 6 and Bhuvi has to play to give some batting at 8......unless Shami picks another 4-fer today


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Post by Pal Joey Thu 27 Jun 2019, 2:29 pm

Gooseberry wrote:
Pal Joey wrote:
Gooseberry wrote:
robbo277 wrote:
KP_fan wrote:
robbo277 wrote:
There is a not insignificant chance that NZ will miss out on the semi-finals, .

Hope & love for your national sides can create more delusion than induced by "substance use"
Good luck everybody

More just pointing out possible permutations.

If I were taking drugs this early on a Thursday morning I'd probably be in a field in Somerset, not posting on a cricket forum.

I think he was making snide remarks about Hales, who's more likely being equally bitter and smugly satisfied in a gutter outside a Nottingham nightclub. Assuming hes not been arrested.

I wouldn't worry too much, Goose. Stokes is just a phone call away... Wink


If only we had well behaved players like Warner eh! 


Without bothering to scroll back a few pages has anyone read Kimbers article on England vs left arm pace men. Much more telling than the "flat track bullies" theory (though that has limited merit too, along with a failure to cope with the pressure and having to carry Vince and Moeen).

TL/DR England averaged 20 runs better against right arm seamers than left armers at the world cup. This is nothing new.

No. You can keep reading those articles... for what they're worth to you.
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Post by KP_fan Thu 27 Jun 2019, 2:33 pm

Duty281 wrote:268/7. Dhoni and Pandya have probably propelled India to a safe score.

Ha Ha
Look how the high and mighty considering 330 a stroll in the park couple of weeks back....are now finding 260 odd enough Cool
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Post by eirebilly Thu 27 Jun 2019, 2:41 pm

On England,

I do not think that they are a flat track bully side, they are much more than that. What they lack though, is mental strength as a group. I would say that only Root and Stokes have the mental strength required to perform in a world cup. The rest, including Morgan, are not strong enough. Teams like India and Australia are masters of tournaments as they have a greater mental strength.


Great team, just do not do the continued pressure of a world cup.
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Post by jimbohammers Thu 27 Jun 2019, 2:43 pm

I would have thought after choosing to bat first India would have been loking at least 300. West Indies well in the game here.

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Post by eirebilly Thu 27 Jun 2019, 2:47 pm

It does not appear to be an easy track to be fair.

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Post by Duty281 Thu 27 Jun 2019, 2:50 pm

KP_fan wrote:
Duty281 wrote:268/7. Dhoni and Pandya have probably propelled India to a safe score.

Ha Ha
Look how the high and mighty considering 330 a stroll in the park couple of weeks back....are now finding 260 odd enough Cool

That's because I also assess the qualities of the teams involved, not just the conditions. Would 268 be enough if the Windies had been the ones making the score? Or if India were playing Australia or England? Probably not.

But is it enough when you're up against the garbage West Indies batting line-up? Probably.

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Post by eirebilly Thu 27 Jun 2019, 3:05 pm

Gayle looks very watchful out there. Very lucky not to play on in the first over.

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Post by wisden Thu 27 Jun 2019, 3:18 pm

Suprised Hope didn't open with Ambris at 3

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Post by eirebilly Thu 27 Jun 2019, 3:20 pm

Gayle never looked comfortable. Gone now, India strike early.
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Post by KP_fan Thu 27 Jun 2019, 3:24 pm

Duty281 wrote:
KP_fan wrote:
Duty281 wrote:268/7. Dhoni and Pandya have probably propelled India to a safe score.

Ha Ha
Look how the high and mighty considering 330 a stroll in the park couple of weeks back....are now finding 260 odd enough Cool

That's because I also assess the qualities of the teams involved, not just the conditions. Would 268 be enough if the Windies had been the ones making the score? Or if India were playing Australia or England? Probably not.

But is it enough when you're up against the garbage West Indies batting line-up? Probably.

I will be counting us 80-20 if we can put 268 runs on Sunday
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Post by eirebilly Thu 27 Jun 2019, 3:27 pm

KP_fan,

I have long wondered what your MO is on this site. You clearly have a great understanding of the game and I do enjoy reading your insights yet you feel the need to intentionally wind people up. Why is that?
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Post by Duty281 Thu 27 Jun 2019, 3:29 pm

KP_fan wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
KP_fan wrote:
Duty281 wrote:268/7. Dhoni and Pandya have probably propelled India to a safe score.

Ha Ha
Look how the high and mighty considering 330 a stroll in the park couple of weeks back....are now finding 260 odd enough Cool

That's because I also assess the qualities of the teams involved, not just the conditions. Would 268 be enough if the Windies had been the ones making the score? Or if India were playing Australia or England? Probably not.

But is it enough when you're up against the garbage West Indies batting line-up? Probably.

I will be counting us 80-20 if we can put 268 runs on Sunday

You do that. It wouldn't actually alter the reality of the situation.

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Post by eirebilly Thu 27 Jun 2019, 3:32 pm

Shami strikes again. The Windies will be lucky to get within 100 runs of India today it seems.
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Post by robbo277 Thu 27 Jun 2019, 3:40 pm

After 8 overs West Indies have 17 runs off the bat, including 2 boundary fours. Can't recall any twos, but that's at least 37 dot balls. These are good bowlers and you have to be watchful, but you can't just allow them to bowl at you like this. No wonder they've lost wickets.

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Post by VTR Thu 27 Jun 2019, 3:43 pm

Looks like another middling score is going to be comfortably defended. Those worries of every match being 400 plays 350 seem a long time ago!

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Post by KP_fan Thu 27 Jun 2019, 3:44 pm

eirebilly wrote:KP_fan,

I have long wondered what your MO is on this site. You clearly have a great understanding of the game and I do enjoy reading your insights yet you feel the need to intentionally wind people up. Why is that?

One of my secondary objectives is to represent the view of the "unrepresented" sides on this board.

As the normal arguments tend to by heavily pro-Eng to the extent of being delusional & hyperbolic sometimes.
Winding up they might "appear" to be to some as they go against the flow.
However in retrospection most of the the points I made in last 2 or 3 weeks are now facts...and most media & commentators now also hold similar views.

I am not a Russian spy conspiring to knock Eng out thru my posting here as one of my friends here suspects Very Happy

My Primary objective still remains to observe cricket and say it as I see it...with a special liking to make predictive calls.
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Post by eirebilly Thu 27 Jun 2019, 4:28 pm

This looks very much like its done and dusted. I would be surprised to see West Indies make 200 from here.
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Post by eirebilly Thu 27 Jun 2019, 4:34 pm

Yep, 4 down and all over. I may revise my 200 and say the Windies will be lucky to get 150...
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Post by Nathaniel Jacobs Thu 27 Jun 2019, 4:40 pm

Top class bowlers are worth twice as much as top class batsmen. In India’s case not only do they have Kohli - probably throw Rohit in there as well - but they have four world class bowlers as such they don’t need to score 330-360

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Post by eirebilly Thu 27 Jun 2019, 4:46 pm

Probably throw in Rohit, PROBABLY?
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Post by Nathaniel Jacobs Thu 27 Jun 2019, 4:52 pm

eirebilly wrote:Probably throw in Rohit, PROBABLY?

Wink

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Post by Nathaniel Jacobs Thu 27 Jun 2019, 4:53 pm

98-5, captain holder out. Brathwaite what you got in you?

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Post by Nathaniel Jacobs Thu 27 Jun 2019, 5:06 pm

107-7, bumrah gets Brathwaite via a worldie catch from Dhoni. Allen first ball duck LBW.

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Post by Nathaniel Jacobs Thu 27 Jun 2019, 5:15 pm

112-8, Windies last hope Hetmyer goes and with him their WC hopes.

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Post by eirebilly Thu 27 Jun 2019, 5:17 pm

The Windies are fully roasted now, very disappointing from them but India are simply 2 or 3 classes above them.

I honestly cannot see them loosing in this World Cup. England need to hope that other results go their way and that they beat the Black Caps because right now, it looks like they are out.
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Post by Duty281 Thu 27 Jun 2019, 5:33 pm

eirebilly wrote:I honestly cannot see them loosing in this World Cup.

Wouldn't go quite that far. It was only on Saturday that Afghanistan pushed them very close.

Would agree, though, that they've been the best team in the tournament so far.

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Post by eirebilly Thu 27 Jun 2019, 5:35 pm

That was a one off Duty and in fairness to Afghanistan, it was probably their biggest the match they wanted to win more.


I think that its only the Aussies that can ask questions of this Indian team.
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Post by Nathaniel Jacobs Thu 27 Jun 2019, 5:53 pm

Pretty certain Kohli is still smarting losing the ODI series last summer, albeit neither Bumrah or Shami played back then through injury. I'm 100% certain the match on Sunday is the one Kohli wants to win most.

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Post by Nathaniel Jacobs Thu 27 Jun 2019, 5:54 pm

Also how valuable does that point New Zealand got for the rained off match vs India look. Could be priceless

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Post by VTR Thu 27 Jun 2019, 5:56 pm

India do look very good. Key for England is to bowl well with the new ball, Woakes has pretty much wasted it in a lot of games and Archer can get a bit carried away bowling short. Test match lines and keep it tight. India do have a bit of a tail, which is their only weakness.

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Post by eirebilly Thu 27 Jun 2019, 6:00 pm

Is Archer fit enough to play? I would rest him if not and bring in Curran. Swap either Ali or Rashid out for Plunket too.

Bite the bullet and call up Hales if Roy is not fit...
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Thu 27 Jun 2019, 6:12 pm

Nathaniel Jacobs wrote:Also how valuable does that point New Zealand got for the rained off match vs India look. Could be priceless

Yep could be the point that sees NZ through ultimately...

I actually think they’ve been pretty lucky this tournament. If Rahim doesn’t muck up a simple run out of Williamson and De Kock review a nick off Tahir again for Williamson they likely lose those two tight games against Bangladesh and South Africa. Certainly would be the weakest of the semi finalists imo (no matter who makes it out of England and Pakistan)
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Post by VTR Thu 27 Jun 2019, 6:23 pm

Good point re Archer and not sure on that. Late fitness test I suppose as they will want him playing. Hales isn't going to happen, but the whole affair has had an impact. We all said before the tournament it didn't matter if the openers didn't get injured, then what happens!

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Post by guildfordbat Thu 27 Jun 2019, 6:59 pm

VTR wrote:Good point re Archer and not sure on that. Late fitness test I suppose as they will want him playing. Hales isn't going to happen, but the whole affair has had an impact. We all said before the tournament it didn't matter if the openers didn't get injured, then what happens!

Yeah, Archer didn't look 100% right to me last time out. We want him playing but clearly he needs to be sufficiently fit. Regardless of any off-field issues with Hales, it needs to be recognised that he hasn't played any cricket since 12th May - he only has a contract with Notts for white ball games. A call up for him now would show signs of desperation and desperate acts rarely work for the best.

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Post by eirebilly Thu 27 Jun 2019, 7:06 pm

If not Hales then who Guildford? England simply cannot keep opening with Vince, he is a walking wicket and at least Hales has a proven track record. I see your point re the amount of games Hales has played but do not agree with it being a desperate act, I feel Vince was the desperate act.
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Post by Duty281 Thu 27 Jun 2019, 7:13 pm

I would like to see Curran come in for Archer if the latter isn't fit - the only problem with that is Curran hasn't played any cricket since May 27 (a low-intensity warm up against Afghanistan where he bowled three overs) and may be lacking sharpness.

In the most recent game at Edgbaston, Santner found prodigious turn off the pitch, so for that reason I would expect England to continue with both Moeen and Rashid in the side.

Fingers crossed Roy will be fit to play...reports currently indicating he will be.

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Post by KP_fan Thu 27 Jun 2019, 7:28 pm

-India's bowling levels were elevated in the last game and now going in a zone of it's own.....every one is threatening.....and look at Shami, a reticent man, who is one of few who speaks almost no English is daring the team management
" drop me if you can"

-Batting is under pressure......getting enuf probably for bowlers to defend but still worrying.

While Rahul has managed to replace Dhwan at top...Rahul himself is not looking replaced adequately at No. 4.
and so the moment 4 wicket fall...India is worried 6 down means no batting left..so they start batting extra cautiously....and leave  20 to 30 runs on the table.

-Can't bring bhuvi who bats well at 8....shami is too good
can't bring jadeja, for the USP of 2 wrist spinners in middle overs is broken if Kuldeep is taken out.

-Dhoni is batting well  holding an end so he can be moved upto-4, Jadhav-5 and bring Pant in at 6 and Pandya stays at 7.

Pant's downside is no lowers than Shankar but upside a lot higher....Shankar's upside of 5 overs of 125-130kph seam bowling seemingly not required.

The other worry is India-Pak are looking on course for a semifinal clash......while I personally would prefer to play NZ
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Post by Nathaniel Jacobs Thu 27 Jun 2019, 7:38 pm

If the pitch in Birmingham is going to offer sharp turn, I’d be tempted to roll the dice with Dawson instead of Ali.

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Post by Nathaniel Jacobs Thu 27 Jun 2019, 7:39 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:
Nathaniel Jacobs wrote:Also how valuable does that point New Zealand got for the rained off match vs India look. Could be priceless

Yep could be the point that sees NZ through ultimately...

I actually think they’ve been pretty lucky this tournament. If Rahim doesn’t muck up a simple run out of Williamson and De Kock review a nick off Tahir again for Williamson they likely lose those two tight games against Bangladesh and South Africa. Certainly would be the weakest of the semi finalists imo (no matter who makes it out of England and Pakistan)
The Kiwis are always that underdog side with the uncanny ability to somehow make the semifinals.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Thu 27 Jun 2019, 7:40 pm

As much as we’d like to see Hales come back, he isn’t. He was skating on thin ice after Bristol, and then coming upto the biggest tournament of his career he literally blew it (yes that’s a drug pun) and ultimately has ended up costing the team in more ways than we could have ever seen.
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Post by guildfordbat Thu 27 Jun 2019, 8:03 pm

eirebilly wrote:If not Hales then who Guildford? England simply cannot keep opening with Vince, he is a walking wicket and at least Hales has a proven track record. I see your point re the amount of games Hales has played but do not agree with it being a desperate act, I feel Vince was the desperate act.

Well done, Billy! You were just meant to marvel at my point about Hales and not ask what I would do instead! Wink

As you rightly push me, I would be tempted to adopt a softer approach with the first power play and push Root up to open with Bairstow. Try to have Root bat 30+ overs and then him and/or others properly go for it. Unless Vince bats lower down the order (and I'm not keen on even that given his current record), someone still needs to come in for him. I would seriously consider Dawson coming off the bench for the number 6/7 spot - he's a reliable performer in the county game and had a very good RL 50 just gone. Far from ideal, I grant you, but I can't think of anyone outside the current squad demanding a batting place. Phil Salt at Sussex is a young opener I've mentioned before but I don't think it's his time yet.

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Post by alfie Fri 28 Jun 2019, 1:22 am

guildfordbat wrote:
VTR wrote:Good point re Archer and not sure on that. Late fitness test I suppose as they will want him playing. Hales isn't going to happen, but the whole affair has had an impact. We all said before the tournament it didn't matter if the openers didn't get injured, then what happens!

Yeah, Archer didn't look 100% right to me last time out. We want him playing but clearly he needs to be sufficiently fit. Regardless of any off-field issues with Hales, it needs to be recognised that he hasn't played any cricket since 12th May - he only has a contract with Notts for white ball games. A call up for him now would show signs of desperation and desperate acts rarely work for the best.

I think England should have played Curran for Archer against Australia as he clearly wasn't 100% right. But having failed to do so I bet they aren't game to make a change now. Curran might have bowled the right length for the conditions but hearing Morgan talk they still seem to be in denial about their bowling tactics.

Vince needs to go. I would bring in Plunkett (they've won the three games he's played , just saying) and bat Woakes at three again with Root opening. Looks a longer tail (though not so if Curran played) but better bowling options. They need to restrict India - best chance of that being some early wickets to give India concerns about their own shortish batting order.

Actually more optimistic about this game as we approach it. Reckon England are due to have a good match ; and India - while impressive- do look a bit vulnerable with the bat. Perhaps the sudden death status of this match might inspire England ...

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Post by guildfordbat Fri 28 Jun 2019, 7:07 am

Hi Alfie -  I did also give thought to bringing in Plunkett but was concerned about that lenthening the tail too much. It then gives us eight bowling options (with Stokes and Root as 7th and 8th) which some might see as too many and a problem in itself. Admittedly, there are still the same number of bowling options with my suggestion of Dawson - he does though strengthen the batting, at least on paper.

Subject to how he is doing in the nets, I would still be inclined to play Dawson. Dependent upon the track and conditions, Plunkett could still come back in with Moeen making way.

Root opening (as I suggested) and Woakes at 3 (which I didn't although I quite like the idea) is what I would probably settle on. However, having to rearrange the top order for those positions at this relatively late stage of the tournament does not bode well even though it is necessary imo.

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Post by Gooseberry Fri 28 Jun 2019, 7:40 am

Looks like Bairstow has been following kpf on here
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/48794213

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Fri 28 Jun 2019, 7:45 am

Gooseberry wrote:Looks like Bairstow has been following kpf on here
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/48794213

Bairstow seems to have a habit of deciding the world is against him - did the same in Sri Lanka if people remember.

Comes across quite childish to me to be honest
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Fri 28 Jun 2019, 7:49 am

The idea any English fan wants the team to fail is beyond me - if anything I think we all want them to succeed a little too much!
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Post by Gooseberry Fri 28 Jun 2019, 8:11 am

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:
Gooseberry wrote:Looks like Bairstow has been following kpf on here
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/48794213

Bairstow seems to have a habit of deciding the world is against him - did the same in Sri Lanka if people remember.

Comes across quite childish to me to be honest


Well the actual Kevin Pietersen takes great delight in it. He must be doubled up in joy with South Africas failings too. Add in his mate Warnes teams doing well the pints of bitter must be flowing at his local (although Warnes had to sit down and shut up now the nice guy Australia and Warner are doing well). 
Bairstow does seem a bit insecure at times admittedly, but the way hes been messed around at times in all formats probably hasnt helped that. Really though these sorts of comments never play back well in the long run, winning does.

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