Pro 14 2019/2020 Season

First topic message reminder :

From a Dragons fan perspective looking ahead into the new season and which sides I would like to catch early in the Pro14 due to players having gone to the World Cup.

Obviously Hill, Dee & Moriarty will be big misses for us during this period. I think we may have Wainwright available (if they end up picking Shingler to cover Lock/Blindside). Think Brown probably wont make the cut either.

So hopefully our starter lineup will look like this:
1. Bevington 2. Hibbard 3. Brown/Fairbrother 4. Nansen 5. Screech 6. Wainwright 7. Griffiths 8. Evans
9. Williams 10. Davies 11. Rosser 12. Dixon 13. Morgan 14. Howells 15. Williams

Now looking at the other sides in the competition it would be great if we could catch some of the league powerhouses early. My Breakdown of the other teams:-

1. Scarlets - Look weak in the front 3. Possibly a weakness at outside centre as well. Would imagine they will be playing Asquith at 12 during this period. McNicholl will probably be the star man on this team opening rounds.

2. Blues - On paper even without the internationals they look a seasoned well rounded team. Probably dangerous for any team in the league during the opening rounds. Halaholo is my star man pick but the entire Blues 8 are extremely experienced (although I don't rate Gill much). Also unclear if Ellis will recover from injury or if he will end up parachuted into Wales WC Squad. If not he will just add to that fairly experienced pack.

3. Ospreys - Will have a fairly competitive pack assuming Bradley doesn't make the cut for the World Cup. The real weakness for them is in the backline. At 9 currently they will be playing rookies and 13 potentially as well unless they opt to play Hook at 12 and move Allen to 13. Giles will probably end up on the wing as well and while he has potential - defensively they may struggle against experienced backlines. That said they probably have enough upfront to power over most teams in the league. Star Man will be Bradley Davies if he doesn't make the world cup.

4. Munster - Probably going to missing around 11 players on World Cup duty. To me Tighthead and at 8 they look particularly weak. To me the backline also looks a little short on quality although granted they do have some potential in the backline.Personally I would like to catch them at Rodney Parade early. I'm still not sure away would be a banker for us. Reckon their key man will be Bleyendaal in the opening part of the season for his experience.

5. Leinster - Now I don't know if they still have the rule of not being able to select 2 non irish players in their starting 15's or if they are allowed exceptions in the early part of this season. Even taking into consideration that they can start Fardy, Gibson-Park, Lowe and Tomane the real problem for them is in the pack. They look seriously underpowered and inexperienced. They probably are hoping Smidt doesn't take Ruddock to the WC. Personally getting these in R2 or R3 away would be perfect. I think we can take them early doors before the return of their internationals. Star Man: Lowe

6. Ulster - For me probably the biggest Irish threat early. Only place they might be a little short on experience will be at 5 and 14. Pack on paper looks extremely strong and along with Cardiff both these sides should be fairly confident into the early rounds. Star Man: McCloskey
Would like to avoid these early doors altogether.

7. Connacht - Not really disrupted to much for internationals like us. Good experienced team. Always going to be dangerous at home. Star Man: Roux Another side I would like to see us avoid early doors but if we have to a home draw that wouldn't be the worst fixture start for us.

8. Edinburgh - Cockerill has done a amazing job with them. Surely even he can't cover 14 players at the world cup. Still managed to assemble a big pack for this period though so it's clear they wont be beaten upfront easily. 9, 10 and 15 look like the real problem area for him. Getting them at home would suit me fine. Star Man: Socino

9. Glasgow - Probably losing at least 13 players if not more. They still have a lot of experience in that squad. On paper probably have to much for us home or away. If we have to though a home draw would be better. Star Man: Lee Jones

10. Treviso - Backline looks very experienced for the league. Upfront a different story altogether. Can see them taking a bit of a battering upfront early doors. Star Man: Ioane
Don't mind if we get them early home or away

11. Zebre - Same story with them. Losing key personnel to the WC. Upfront looks very inexperienced. Backline will also be inexperienced. Can they get Boni back in time for the start of the season. The Centre was a powerhouse before his long term injury and would also have made the Italian squad if he wasn't out of action. Star Man: Walker (reckon he's going to surprise a few in the Pro14)

12. Kings - Not going to be missing any internationals. But they still lack quality for compete at this level. No signings of note in the off season. Could be a long season for them again? Personally I expect us to beat them home and away. Would be a waste to draw them during the World Cup period. Star Man: Catrakilis

13. Cheetahs - Same story as the Kings. To many lost star after their first season in the Pro14. They do have a better record than the kings and at home they will win games. Prefer to not draw them either in the opening rounds. Star Man: Nche

How do you fancy your teams chances and what teams would you like to draw early or avoid during the World Cup?

Lousi is some player, hope he doesn’t lose his cool again and get banned. You can see he has a League and SR background from the off. 

Scarlets have their kiwi blueprint back and it’s good to watch, they just need to speed up play a bit and be a bit more clinical.

Another poor decision by the Blues coach in making Turnbull captain for this match.

They've looked very dangerous but equally Blues have been disappointing. Scarlets no.6 replacement for Thomson has had an incredible game. Talk about taking an opportunity!

Yep, Ed Kennedy from Aus is WQ. He was probably brought in as cover for Shingler. It might be too soon to believe Ed will be playing for Wales though. Have to agree that Blues looked awful. Their pack is powder puff.

Saw the Scarlets/Blues game, Scarlets were far superior. Reckon the man of the match should have gone to Mulvihill, he’s such a winner - for the opposition.

Blueschief wrote:Saw the Scarlets/Blues game, Scarlets were far superior. Reckon the man of the match should have gone to Mulvihill, he’s such a winner - for the opposition.

You know of PhilBB right? He seems to think everything is fine, but I’ve noticed he says this after every single Blues loss. Your coach can never get selection right, and rarely gets the tactics either. And there’s some very poor players at lock and hooker, a few of them are probably welsh prem standard.

Blues are a shambles, have been for a long time. We have a long track record of signing poor coaches and players. Needs a clear out, from the top down.

Will have to agree with that. A top down clearance would be good, then start over with some new coaches and just a couple new signings. It’s criminal for Cardiff and the WRU to not be properly utilising their resources (Blues international players).

Red all day for North.

mikey_dragon wrote:Red all day for North.

Just saw the replay of that, very clumsy challenge. Ref had no option really.

Looks like the Spreys will hold on despite being a man down for most of the match.

It has been another scrappy old game though, just like every other one this weekend other than Leinster v Munster

and even as i speak, the Drags spoon another one!

Embarrassing the amount of knock-ons. Shameful.

and somehow the Drags score at the death, conversion to win the game

I’ll take a draw at this point. Adam Jones (ref) has checked with the TMO too often.

Also not sure how Williams got MOTM, should probably be Hewitt.

A draw, probably fair

I think you just have to say that was the first game of the season and move on

Yeah hopefully. It won’t be easier than that for Dragons, Scarlets and Bristol are coming up.

Is it just me or did Leinster get away with repeated offenses in their 22 yesterday?

Reminded me of the way the AB’s don’t mind conceding penalties rather than tries.

That’s how Leinster and the ABs play. They give away 3 point and back their ability to score tries, which both are very good at.

Not a bad result overall, given my initial expectations. To be harsh on Sam Davies, he has missed some kicks again. They’re on his wrong side on the whole, but the one pen he missed from straight in front he should be getting.

Bound to be pretty error ridden. Derbies are pretty rough games anyway, made better by crowds. Take that away and factor in the fact it was the first game back and it’s never going to be a great game. Must be hard, when they’ve not really taken contact, because of the way they had to return to training etc.

Anyway, nice not to finish worst Welsh team and good to get some minutes in. Dragons will have to improve for the next two games and with added quality to come in (better backrow and backline), we will be better. Probably not good enough to really do much result wise, but there we go.

A fair amount of injuries for the first weekend back, suppose that's to be expected. Leinster v Munster was a bit more entertaining than I thought it was going to be considering it was the first game back for all of them. Didn't think Munster centres were up to much, all a bit of a muchness, Lenihan giving Farrell POTM the classic play of journo's playing to their agenda of getting 'their guy' into the green jersey.

Scrums, i don't remember there being much time wasted there. Mostly a good contest by both sides.

Toner yellow card, harsh on him, but the cumulative nature meant whoever infringed next was going to get it.

Munster 99 out of 99 on their own rucks. Were they putting too many people in there? Players being lazy and hiding the ruck meaning there weren't options out the line for the next phase.

5 offloads between both sides all game!

De Allende looked out of sorts, did more rucking than ball carrrying or defending

Thought De Allende was solid all game, could be a cracking signing for Munster. Shame about Snyman, he was dropped awkwardly on his ankle by his own players.

Old Man wrote:De Allende looked out of sorts, did more rucking than ball carrrying or defending

He was used as a decoy mainly. He attracts defenders so it makes sense to use him like that. His center partner, Farrell, had a good game and part of that was DDA's running lines. Farrell is even bigger than DDA and defenders usually target him but now they have 2 big centers to watch.

Perhaps, but going from the most ball carries for the Boks to very few in this match made me feel he was under utilised.

Perhaps part of the game plan, who knows?

Is Bristol hooker Byrne the one who kept having a stormer for Leinster earlier in the season?

*I might be getting him confused with Ronan Kelleher.

Not sure if it has been discussed elsewhere but looks like Southern Kings might be pulling out of the Pro14? Does this make way for some of the other franchises perhaps?

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/southern-kings-future-in-pro14-in-serious-doubt-following-latest-development-in-port-elizabeth/

mikey_dragon wrote:Is Bristol hooker Byrne the one who kept having a stormer for Leinster earlier in the season?

*I might be getting him confused with Ronan Kelleher.

That was Kelleher. Kelleher is good but he had a mare throwing at the weekend.

The Oracle wrote:Not sure if it has been discussed elsewhere but looks like Southern Kings might be pulling out of the Pro14? Does this make way for some of the other franchises perhaps?

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/southern-kings-future-in-pro14-in-serious-doubt-following-latest-development-in-port-elizabeth/

They should pack up.

Pro14 is a joke, everybody knows it. Time to pack it in and see what rises from the ashes.

RugbyFan100 wrote:Pro14 is a joke, everybody knows it. Time to pack it in and see what rises from the ashes.

How is it a joke?

profitius wrote:

The Oracle wrote:Not sure if it has been discussed elsewhere but looks like Southern Kings might be pulling out of the Pro14? Does this make way for some of the other franchises perhaps?

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/southern-kings-future-in-pro14-in-serious-doubt-following-latest-development-in-port-elizabeth/

They should pack up.

We knew this was coming, I thought it old news? As Biltong said they're a political set-up and they're gash. It would be a shame if we lose Cheetahs even if we do get the big 4 Franchises.

RugbyFan100 wrote:Pro14 is a joke, everybody knows it. Time to pack it in and see what rises from the ashes.

Well don't watch it and go crawl back into your cave then.

profitius wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:Pro14 is a joke, everybody knows it. Time to pack it in and see what rises from the ashes.

How is it a joke?

Barely any away fans. Fixtures all over the place. Only 4 or 5 teams competitive. Premier sports awful. Pro 12. Pro14. Pro13. Pro16 in 2022. No stability. Pathetic league.

mikey_dragon wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:Pro14 is a joke, everybody knows it. Time to pack it in and see what rises from the ashes.

Well don't watch it and go crawl back into your cave then.

I'm watching it less and less. It feels like a chore now. And I'm a season ticket holder of one of the teams in it.

The Oracle wrote:Not sure if it has been discussed elsewhere but looks like Southern Kings might be pulling out of the Pro14? Does this make way for some of the other franchises perhaps?

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/southern-kings-future-in-pro14-in-serious-doubt-following-latest-development-in-port-elizabeth/

Conflicting information coming from journalists in SA.

Firstly the Kings have closed for the season, which means if we do have a currie cup late this year, they won’t be part of it.

there are also ru ours tat four teams in Pro16 is a reality, but again nothing from the horses mouth.

there is also a rumour we will only have five franchises, yet no place to go for the fifth franchise and Nothing on Griquas and Pumas.


I would guess so far nothing is a certainty.

RugbyFan100 wrote:

profitius wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:Pro14 is a joke, everybody knows it. Time to pack it in and see what rises from the ashes.

How is it a joke?

Barely any away fans. Fixtures all over the place. Only 4 or 5 teams competitive. Premier sports awful. Pro 12. Pro14. Pro13. Pro16 in 2022. No stability. Pathetic league.

I've noticed the same thing in the Prem. Barely any home fans either, complete shambles.

If the Southern Kings pull out, I see little reason to keep the Cheetahs in to create a Pro13. They would be a bizarre appendage, the travel costs of travelling out for one off games don't really make sense. It would be best to go back to a Pro12.

To be honest, with the problems likely to arise around travelling this year, it might be best if all the SA sides sit this season out and we can hopefully get things sorted out for the following year.

It is going to be hard enough to travel to Italy this year, let alone SA.

The Kings have not been a success, but the Cheetahs definitely have added something to the competition.

I am not against having SA teams in the league, but they need to be competitive, if the big boys are to come in, then that will be a given really and could create some great games.

For the purpose of balancing out the league, can we get rid of the other weaker team (Ospreys) and just play a Pro 12 for a while?

RugbyFan100 wrote:

profitius wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:Pro14 is a joke, everybody knows it. Time to pack it in and see what rises from the ashes.

How is it a joke?

Barely any away fans. Fixtures all over the place. Only 4 or 5 teams competitive. Premier sports awful. Pro 12. Pro14. Pro13. Pro16 in 2022. No stability. Pathetic league.

You're naming all the bad parts. There are also plenty of good things about the league. 4 or 5 competitive teams? Most teams are actually competitive. You could argue kings, dragons and zebre drag standards down but Dragons have made some big signings.

The NH needs the Pro 14 to be credible but suspect just as the SH became disillusioned with conferences, that may well be repeated up here.

From an outside perspective when established internationals only play a handful of league games and perhaps none away from home, fans very quickly see where priorities lie. Who wants to pay tickets for that?
When the biggest team squad in the league can remain unbeaten using mainly second and third string squad players, that is simply not healthy for a league. It is not that teams' fault but it speaks volumes on the league.

NZ running away with Super Rugby has conversely created a commercial issue as fans from the other two countries (who make it commercially viable), switch off. In the french and english leagues, team dominance rises and then falls, as the competition is brutal and players vie for test experience, which makes the difference in those leagues, if you can keep them fit !

As centrally controlled entities the status quo and also bigger priorities for Test rugby, will probably never change and that leaves NZ in a quandary. It is not difficult to see the same scenario playing out in the Pro14.

mikey_dragon wrote:Is Bristol hooker Byrne the one who kept having a stormer for Leinster earlier in the season?

*I might be getting him confused with Ronan Kelleher.

Kelleher had a great start to the season so easy to confuse. Byrne would have had solid cameo displays last season. His brother is a prop for Leinster (Byrne that is), and is very handy around the park so they tended to get a lot of commentator reference (2 of the front row being increases the number of mentions, "solid carry by byrne", "drive by byrne", etc.).

He should be a good prospect though. I'd say he's a better front row prospect leaving Leinster than say Marty Moore leaving Leinster for Wasps a number of seasons back. Far more potential.

Did he play at the weekend, how did he do?

Another one gone (Cheetahs). Pro 12 now. Who knows what Pro it will be by the end of the week.

This was always going to happen, but people on here just ganged up on me and shouted me down.

I am still adamant that the decision to move the competition to a lesser known pay per view broadcaster was the worst decision the league could ever have made. The leagues popularity has taken a massive nose dive since it's been on Premier Sports.

But hey ho, life still goes on.

LordDowlais wrote:This was always going to happen, but people on here just ganged up on me and shouted me down.

I am still adamant that the decision to move the competition to a lesser known pay per view broadcaster was the worst decision the league could ever have made. The leagues popularity has taken a massive nose dive since it's been on Premier Sports.

But hey ho, life still goes on.

I think most people would prefer it on free-to-air TV, but what’s this got to do with the SARU’s financial woes?

thebandwagonsociety wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:Is Bristol hooker Byrne the one who kept having a stormer for Leinster earlier in the season?

*I might be getting him confused with Ronan Kelleher.

Kelleher had a great start to the season so easy to confuse.  Byrne would have had solid cameo displays last season.  His brother is a prop for Leinster (Byrne that is), and is very handy around the park so they tended to get a lot of commentator reference (2 of the front row being increases the number of mentions, "solid carry by byrne", "drive by byrne", etc.).

He should be a good prospect though. I'd say he's a better front row prospect leaving Leinster than say Marty Moore leaving Leinster for Wasps a number of seasons back. Far more potential.

Did he play at the weekend, how did he do?

Didn’t see a lot of him but he seems to make the Bristol team most weekends. He’s mobile so fits their style of play. Ex Leinster man Conor Maguire is with Dragons for the foreseeable future, looked decent in his cameo. Leinster front-row depth is ridiculous.