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Pro 14 2019/2020 Season

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Pro 14 2019/2020 Season - Page 13 Empty Pro 14 2019/2020 Season

Post by Welshmushroom on Thu 04 Jul 2019, 2:15 pm

First topic message reminder :

From a Dragons fan perspective looking ahead into the new season and which sides I would like to catch early in the Pro14 due to players having gone to the World Cup.

Obviously Hill, Dee & Moriarty will be big misses for us during this period. I think we may have Wainwright available (if they end up picking Shingler to cover Lock/Blindside). Think Brown probably wont make the cut either.

So hopefully our starter lineup will look like this:
1. Bevington 2. Hibbard 3. Brown/Fairbrother 4. Nansen 5. Screech 6. Wainwright 7. Griffiths 8. Evans
9. Williams 10. Davies 11. Rosser 12. Dixon 13. Morgan 14. Howells 15. Williams

Now looking at the other sides in the competition it would be great if we could catch some of the league powerhouses early. My Breakdown of the other teams:-

1. Scarlets - Look weak in the front 3. Possibly a weakness at outside centre as well. Would imagine they will be playing Asquith at 12 during this period. McNicholl will probably be the star man on this team opening rounds.

2. Blues - On paper even without the internationals they look a seasoned well rounded team. Probably dangerous for any team in the league during the opening rounds. Halaholo is my star man pick but the entire Blues 8 are extremely experienced (although I don't rate Gill much). Also unclear if Ellis will recover from injury or if he will end up parachuted into Wales WC Squad. If not he will just add to that fairly experienced pack.

3. Ospreys - Will have a fairly competitive pack assuming Bradley doesn't make the cut for the World Cup. The real weakness for them is in the backline. At 9 currently they will be playing rookies and 13 potentially as well unless they opt to play Hook at 12 and move Allen to 13. Giles will probably end up on the wing as well and while he has potential - defensively they may struggle against experienced backlines. That said they probably have enough upfront to power over most teams in the league. Star Man will be Bradley Davies if he doesn't make the world cup.

4. Munster - Probably going to missing around 11 players on World Cup duty. To me Tighthead and at 8 they look particularly weak. To me the backline also looks a little short on quality although granted they do have some potential in the backline.Personally I would like to catch them at Rodney Parade early. I'm still not sure away would be a banker for us. Reckon their key man will be Bleyendaal in the opening part of the season for his experience.

5. Leinster - Now I don't know if they still have the rule of not being able to select 2 non irish players in their starting 15's or if they are allowed exceptions in the early part of this season. Even taking into consideration that they can start Fardy, Gibson-Park, Lowe and Tomane the real problem for them is in the pack. They look seriously underpowered and inexperienced. They probably are hoping Smidt doesn't take Ruddock to the WC. Personally getting these in R2 or R3 away would be perfect. I think we can take them early doors before the return of their internationals. Star Man: Lowe

6. Ulster - For me probably the biggest Irish threat early. Only place they might be a little short on experience will be at 5 and 14. Pack on paper looks extremely strong and along with Cardiff both these sides should be fairly confident into the early rounds. Star Man: McCloskey
Would like to avoid these early doors altogether.

7. Connacht - Not really disrupted to much for internationals like us. Good experienced team. Always going to be dangerous at home. Star Man: Roux Another side I would like to see us avoid early doors but if we have to a home draw that wouldn't be the worst fixture start for us.

8. Edinburgh - Cockerill has done a amazing job with them. Surely even he can't cover 14 players at the world cup. Still managed to assemble a big pack for this period though so it's clear they wont be beaten upfront easily. 9, 10 and 15 look like the real problem area for him. Getting them at home would suit me fine. Star Man: Socino

9. Glasgow - Probably losing at least 13 players if not more. They still have a lot of experience in that squad. On paper probably have to much for us home or away. If we have to though a home draw would be better. Star Man: Lee Jones

10. Treviso - Backline looks very experienced for the league. Upfront a different story altogether. Can see them taking a bit of a battering upfront early doors. Star Man: Ioane
Don't mind if we get them early home or away

11. Zebre - Same story with them. Losing key personnel to the WC. Upfront looks very inexperienced. Backline will also be inexperienced. Can they get Boni back in time for the start of the season. The Centre was a powerhouse before his long term injury and would also have made the Italian squad if he wasn't out of action. Star Man: Walker (reckon he's going to surprise a few in the Pro14)

12. Kings - Not going to be missing any internationals. But they still lack quality for compete at this level. No signings of note in the off season. Could be a long season for them again? Personally I expect us to beat them home and away. Would be a waste to draw them during the World Cup period. Star Man: Catrakilis

13. Cheetahs - Same story as the Kings. To many lost star after their first season in the Pro14. They do have a better record than the kings and at home they will win games. Prefer to not draw them either in the opening rounds. Star Man: Nche

How do you fancy your teams chances and what teams would you like to draw early or avoid during the World Cup?



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Post by profitius on Mon 31 Aug 2020, 9:20 am

Watched Connacht vs munster. All I can say is at least I watch the recording so I could skip through all the stoppages. The remote control needs new batteries after that. Connacht were up for the fight and munster were very sloppy with the ball even for munster's standards.
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Post by RiscaGame on Wed 02 Sep 2020, 11:05 am

Today we have the usual suspects noticing the neutral refs on offer for the semis Laugh

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Post by RugbyFan100 on Wed 02 Sep 2020, 11:07 am

Sean Fitzpatrick on the Pro14:

Looking at South Africa, rather than four more of their teams joining the Pro14, maybe they should revive the Currie Cup to what it was 20 years ago. It needs to be simple and I don’t see a Pro18 working. Going up and down to South Africa is easier than going to New Zealand, but it’s still 12 hours on a plane and in terms of fans in stadiums there won’t be too many people going to South Africa and vice versa.

We’ve got some amazing products - the Lions, Wales, England, New Zealand, Australia, South Africa, European rugby, Super Rugby… The key is to get windows in place, then drop in products. And it doesn’t have to be the same every year.

What we need is for the best players to be able to play every game for their club. At the moment you have Scarlets playing in the Pro14 on a Friday night and then Wales playing in Cardiff on the Saturday. You’ve got 15 players not playing in the Pro14 and it’s devaluing the product.

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Post by profitius on Wed 02 Sep 2020, 10:56 pm

RugbyFan100 wrote:Sean Fitzpatrick on the Pro14:

Looking at South Africa, rather than four more of their teams joining the Pro14, maybe they should revive the Currie Cup to what it was 20 years ago. It needs to be simple and I don’t see a Pro18 working. Going up and down to South Africa is easier than going to New Zealand, but it’s still 12 hours on a plane and in terms of fans in stadiums there won’t be too many people going to South Africa and vice versa.

We’ve got some amazing products - the Lions, Wales, England, New Zealand, Australia, South Africa, European rugby, Super Rugby… The key is to get windows in place, then drop in products. And it doesn’t have to be the same every year.

What we need is for the best players to be able to play every game for their club. At the moment you have Scarlets playing in the Pro14 on a Friday night and then Wales playing in Cardiff on the Saturday. You’ve got 15 players not playing in the Pro14 and it’s devaluing the product.


If the SA sides joined then teams would travel there twice per season on average. Its a bit different than having to travel to Australia, NZ, Japan and Argentina throughout the season which also have different timezones.


Sure it would be great if SA could prosper with the currie cup alone and the prowhatever stayed within Europe but the reality is if joining forces helps both parties then it could do more good than harm. Super rugby was a massive success in the early years.


And if he wants teams playing their best 15 every week then they'll need to cut 40% of all matches from the calender. Would fans prefer to see that or the current situation of rotating players? Id prefer the latter.
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Post by mikey_dragon on Wed 02 Sep 2020, 11:53 pm

I’d prefer the latter too but not everyone can afford that sort of squad. Shifting towards a global season helps everyone but I wouldn’t want that at the expense of the 6N.

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Post by BigGee on Thu 03 Sep 2020, 7:14 am

i am not sure SF really understands the Pro 14 model yet nor how important iit is in sustsining professional rugby for the smaller countries in the northern hemisphere.


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Post by Brendan on Thu 03 Sep 2020, 11:48 am

The statement can be summed up as follows

NZ thought that their S8 would be the best thing ever.  Australia said no, SA said NZ have left SR and are responsible for the legal issues.  Argentina have said nothing other than unofficially sacking all their players.

Now that it looks like Australia are going alone and doing a champions cup type tournament on top of their own league. NZ competition isn't looking so healthy now as a NZ league won't get the same tv deal in Australia as a joint competition would have.  A champions cup tv deal will not sell as well if it's just the Pacific Ocean Nations.

SA believe that they don't have the ability to go it alone (maybe to insulate from politics) and sustaining 6-8 teams isn't financially viable, see Kings.

NZ is now panicked as they may be stuck with just their teams playing 8 games against each other and then the top teams then playing the best from the Pacific Leagues.  On the other hand their rivals are about to be linked to Europe either though the Pro14 or Champions Cup or both.  And that they might also play in the 8 Nations instead of going to the RC this year which would reduce attendances and TV deals if it is just going to be the other 3.

You would wonder if the NZRU did with their TV deal what the PRL did with BT and now having spent the money might not get it. It seems a bit suspious that they got their biggest TV deal (even bigger than SA) and then suddenly came out and said they want to change SR.

SA joining the Pro14 brings in the most income for their teams, gives them people at the table that will support their European Cup entry which would mean more money.  Doing the Currie Cup does not seem to be viable as far as the SARU are concerned.

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Post by Old Man on Thu 03 Sep 2020, 12:24 pm

Problem with SARU is they aren’t saying much of anything, at this point there are only rumours.

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Post by RugbyFan100 on Tue 08 Sep 2020, 5:11 pm

Interesting comments from Scarlets chairman today:

"CVC are looking to bundle the TV rights for the Gallagher Premiership, PRO14 and European rugby. That will be a sliding doors moment in the history of the game. They will do that and hallelujah from everyone else’s perspective because they will do a better job.

They will look to maximise revenue and they won’t be doing that by denying people a good quality product.

You look at Formula One now since CVC’s involvement, with the calibre of the teams, the personalities, the sponsorship deals, the TV coverage. It’s a very different sport from when we were kids growing up watching it.

Q: What would you like to see in terms of the structure of the season and the competitions the Scarlets play in?

A: I agree with David Buttress on the product. We have to get it right.

What I would like to see is a more logically structured season, the internationals playing more games for the clubs, more clearly defined tournaments, more competition between north and south and better quality rugby.

If you look at the Scarlets, we have got 15 boys in the elite Welsh 38. My three kids are casual fans, as an example. If I bring them to Parc y Scarlets and Jonathan Davies, Ken Owens and Liam Williams are not playing, I am in trouble.

People need to be able to show up on a Saturday and watch a meaningful game with the top squad playing, whether that is in a PRO16 with South African sides, a British & Irish League or a global club competition."


https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/meet-new-man-helm-scarlets-18897073

Hopefully the first steps to a British and Irish League.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Tue 08 Sep 2020, 6:30 pm

I get what he’s saying about the structure of the season, meaning that if we alter it then we could see internationals play more often for the Regions; but are Owens, Davies and Williams the best examples to use? Are the latter two even playing against Toulon?

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Post by Pot Hale on Tue 08 Sep 2020, 10:54 pm

Altering the season won't necessarily mean test players play more matches for their clubs. Unless the number of test matches and European matches reduces and/or the number of minutes that players allowed play are changed. These vary from country to country.
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Post by mikey_dragon on Tue 08 Sep 2020, 11:00 pm

Yeah but I thought that was to be introduced too, if we’re to have this ‘global season’? It’s mainly England and France flogging their squads, which the rest of us try and keep up with.

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Post by Brendan on Wed 09 Sep 2020, 9:56 am

Only way fans will be guaranteed to see their internationals playing at home is if we lose 10+ games a season or coaches choose to only play internationals for home games.

SR has 16 games Europe has minimum of 27 for the pro14 or 32 for the T14.  Even SR doesn't play it's best players ever game especially in WC years.

Also what club is going to give up 5 home games of 6-8k (in wales) for an extra 2k for your other 8 games (you would need an extra 4-5 per game).  And then also take a hit on the size of your TV deal.

Champions Cup should see the best players in your squad playing but even those games don't get a big increase in a season (unless you are Leinster and Munster). Scarlets had 8.4k for the Pro 14and 7.8k for the Champions Cup for the 18/19 season.

Fans want to see winning teams not internationals.  Leinster bring a case in point were regardless of who they put out the fans still come.

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Post by Brendan on Wed 09 Sep 2020, 10:06 am

Just to show the difference

In 17/18 Scarletts had an increase in attendance not because they had more internationals on show but because they actually believed they could compete for the tournaments

17/18
Pro14 - Finalist (9.0k)
Chap Cup - Semi Final (12.0k)

18/19
Pro14 - 4th in Conference (8.4k)
Chap Cup - 3rd in group (7.8k) (them and Leicester finished on 1 win, Racing and Ulster on 5 wins)

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Post by RugbyFan100 on Wed 09 Sep 2020, 11:13 am

https://twitter.com/MattSouth7/status/1303635792204566534

Very Happy Very Happy

Joke league

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Post by Brendan on Wed 09 Sep 2020, 11:22 am

RugbyFan100 wrote:https://twitter.com/MattSouth7/status/1303635792204566534

Very Happy Very Happy

Joke league

You mean they are resting a 35 year old player on the wane who is an international for the 25 year old international who deserves to be there and would get into nearly ever other team in the league.

It's like Porter v Furlong, their two backrow etc.

Tell us why Ross Bryne is a bad pick to start the Final. He has started alot of big games so don't see a problem

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Post by RugbyFan100 on Wed 09 Sep 2020, 11:28 am

Brendan wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:https://twitter.com/MattSouth7/status/1303635792204566534

Very Happy Very Happy

Joke league

You mean they are resting a 35 year old player on the wane who is an international for the 25 year old international who deserves to be there and would get into nearly ever other team in the league.

It's like Porter v Furlong, their two backrow etc.

Tell us why Ross Bryne is a bad pick to start the Final.  He has started alot of big games so don't see a problem

Ask the jourunalist why this is a 'bad look for the league', you won't digest anything I say.

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Post by Brendan on Wed 09 Sep 2020, 11:51 am

Sexton and Byrne is like O'Gara and Sexton back in the day. Sexton isn't what he use to be and has the name. Byrne does just as well but doesn't have his 10 years of experience behind him. Byrne has 508 points for Leinster and 87 appearances. He isn't some nobody that people don't know.

He has performed well in the league and Leinster will not be weaker with him in. He has played in plenty of champions cup games and will perform well.

Maybe Leinster should play Rob Kearney instead of Jordan Lamour or maybe bring back O'Driscol for that blow in Henshaw. And Cullen can put himself in the team instead of Ryan.

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Post by RiscaGame on Wed 09 Sep 2020, 12:40 pm

I can see why people would think it would cheapen the league though.

Whilst Sexton is starting to decline now (possibly) and Byrne is experienced, who do you think they are likely to start with in the Champions Cup, no matter how Byrne plays?

Really, they could've played Byrne in the semi too and then it might've been less of a chance for people to take issue with it.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Wed 09 Sep 2020, 1:12 pm

RugbyFan100 wrote:https://twitter.com/MattSouth7/status/1303635792204566534

Very Happy Very Happy

Joke league

International for international.

One of them is likely to break.

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Post by Brendan on Wed 09 Sep 2020, 1:17 pm

When you have possibly there 1st and second choice 10 in the country you are going to alternate.  Especially when one is stuck together with sticky tape.

What about VDF does he make the league look bad if he starts ahead of Levey or Doris and Conan.

Will the Final also be cheapened if Burns and Cooney don't start for Ulster.

I am sure certain agreements were made with Byrne to keep him at Leinster, especially after he missed out on a WC because he was only a second choice at provincial level.

I am sure Ulster would have taken Byrne if offered.

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Post by RiscaGame on Wed 09 Sep 2020, 1:30 pm

It's not an issue for me, I can just see why people have highlighted it. I won't be watching anyway, so it won't make it less of a spectacle for me. I would be surprised if those who have taken issue with it, or even mentioned it will watch too.

Not many have that depth. Dragons would've, had they kept Tovey to understudy Sam Davies Wink

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Post by RugbyFan100 on Wed 09 Sep 2020, 1:35 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:https://twitter.com/MattSouth7/status/1303635792204566534

Very Happy Very Happy

Joke league

International for international.

One of them is likely to break.

Maybe Gaz. But this is undeniably a poor look for the league and broadcasters.

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Post by Brendan on Wed 09 Sep 2020, 1:38 pm

I say it jokingly but part in truth I am surprised that Leinster As haven't been suggested as a replacement team for Kings.

Every team has a few positions where first and second choice are very close. In the NH we seem to focus on the established player for much longer, in the SH especially in NZ you can go from starting AB to backup at your SR team and no one says anything other than he needs to improve.

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Post by Pete330v2 on Wed 09 Sep 2020, 3:49 pm

RugbyFan100 wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:https://twitter.com/MattSouth7/status/1303635792204566534

Very Happy Very Happy

Joke league

International for international.

One of them is likely to break.

Maybe Gaz. But this is undeniably a poor look for the league and broadcasters.

I fail to see why having the luxury of squad rotation without weakening the matchday squad looks poor for the league. If Sexton and McGrath are carrying knocks why risk them against an Ulster who aren't exactly firing on all cylinders despite the win at Edinburgh? . If we did have that luxury we'd be resting players too for a very difficult trip to Toulouse but we'll have to field as full strength a side as we can to have any chance of competing with the powerhouse that is Leinster, they on the other hand simply do not.

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Post by RugbyFan100 on Wed 09 Sep 2020, 4:28 pm

Pete330v2 wrote:

I fail to see why having the luxury of squad rotation without weakening the matchday squad looks poor for the league.

I'll help you - It might be because The Star player who has been voted World Player of the Year is being rested in a league final, and being saved for a quarter final in another competition.

Now ask yourself if that would happen in the final of Top 14 or the Gallagher Premiership. After you've asked yourself that, have a think on why the Top14 and the Premiership are able to command broadcast revenues tens of millions in excess of the Pro14.

But you won't. You''ll just ignore it and make an excuse for the Pro14.

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Post by Pot Hale on Wed 09 Sep 2020, 4:37 pm

Pete330v2 wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:https://twitter.com/MattSouth7/status/1303635792204566534

Very Happy Very Happy

Joke league

International for international.

One of them is likely to break.

Maybe Gaz. But this is undeniably a poor look for the league and broadcasters.

I fail to see why having the luxury of squad rotation without weakening the matchday squad looks poor for the league. If Sexton and McGrath are carrying knocks why risk them against an Ulster who aren't exactly firing on all cylinders despite the win at Edinburgh? . If we did have that luxury we'd be resting players too for a very difficult trip to Toulouse but we'll have to field as full strength a side as we can to have any chance of competing with the powerhouse that is Leinster, they on the other hand simply do not.

Agreed. Welsh fans and journalists seem to think Sexton is the star player of the PRO14 when clearly he is not. If anything, it is Ross Byrne who should be starting by default, and Sexton to step in if required. Similar with Rob Kearney and Jordan Larmour. James Ryan or Devin Toner. Connors vs V dF. Doris vs Ruddock.
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Post by RugbyFan100 on Wed 09 Sep 2020, 5:05 pm

Pot Hale wrote:
Pete330v2 wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:https://twitter.com/MattSouth7/status/1303635792204566534

Very Happy Very Happy

Joke league

International for international.

One of them is likely to break.

Maybe Gaz. But this is undeniably a poor look for the league and broadcasters.

I fail to see why having the luxury of squad rotation without weakening the matchday squad looks poor for the league. If Sexton and McGrath are carrying knocks why risk them against an Ulster who aren't exactly firing on all cylinders despite the win at Edinburgh? . If we did have that luxury we'd be resting players too for a very difficult trip to Toulouse but we'll have to field as full strength a side as we can to have any chance of competing with the powerhouse that is Leinster, they on the other hand simply do not.

Agreed.   Welsh fans and journalists seem to think Sexton is the star player of the PRO14 when clearly he is not.    If anything, it is Ross Byrne who should be starting by default, and Sexton to step in if required.    

Is Ross Byrne on a central contract then?

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Post by Pot Hale on Wed 09 Sep 2020, 5:11 pm

RugbyFan100 wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:
Pete330v2 wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:https://twitter.com/MattSouth7/status/1303635792204566534

Very Happy Very Happy

Joke league

International for international.

One of them is likely to break.

Maybe Gaz. But this is undeniably a poor look for the league and broadcasters.

I fail to see why having the luxury of squad rotation without weakening the matchday squad looks poor for the league. If Sexton and McGrath are carrying knocks why risk them against an Ulster who aren't exactly firing on all cylinders despite the win at Edinburgh? . If we did have that luxury we'd be resting players too for a very difficult trip to Toulouse but we'll have to field as full strength a side as we can to have any chance of competing with the powerhouse that is Leinster, they on the other hand simply do not.

Agreed.   Welsh fans and journalists seem to think Sexton is the star player of the PRO14 when clearly he is not.    If anything, it is Ross Byrne who should be starting by default, and Sexton to step in if required.     

Is Ross Byrne on a central contract then?

No, he's not. Has he played more PRO14 matches than Sexton this season?
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Post by RugbyFan100 on Wed 09 Sep 2020, 5:29 pm

Pot Hale wrote:

No, he's not.   Has he played more PRO14 matches than Sexton this season?  

Of course he has. The IRFU rests their best players in the league for the European games and test games. Which is why the pro14 a farcical competition.

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Post by LeinsterFan4life on Wed 09 Sep 2020, 5:40 pm

A 35 year old who has been held together by sticky tape since 2013 being dropped for an Irish international. Wow what a farce...

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Post by Pot Hale on Wed 09 Sep 2020, 5:41 pm

RugbyFan100 wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:

No, he's not.   Has he played more PRO14 matches than Sexton this season?  

Of course he has. The IRFU rests their best players in the league for the European games and test games. Which is why the pro14 a farcical competition.

They rest their players for test games?  News to me.    

All test players are subject to game and time management, wherever they're playing.

Byrne is the right selection for the final. And he merits it too.
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Post by RugbyFan100 on Wed 09 Sep 2020, 5:46 pm

Pot Hale wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:

No, he's not.   Has he played more PRO14 matches than Sexton this season?  

Of course he has. The IRFU rests their best players in the league for the European games and test games. Which is why the pro14 a farcical competition.

They rest their players for test games?  News to me.    

All test players are subject to game and time management, wherever they're playing.

Byrne is the right selection for the final.   And he merits it too.

OK

Was just making you a ware what the feeling outside Ireland is on this.

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Post by RiscaGame on Wed 09 Sep 2020, 7:08 pm

Pot Hale wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:

No, he's not.   Has he played more PRO14 matches than Sexton this season?  

Of course he has. The IRFU rests their best players in the league for the European games and test games. Which is why the pro14 a farcical competition.

They rest their players for test games?  News to me.    

All test players are subject to game and time management, wherever they're playing.

Byrne is the right selection for the final.   And he merits it too.

Feel sorry for Ulster, that they decided they needed Jonny for Munster, but can afford to bench him for little old Ulster Run

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Post by LeinsterFan4life on Wed 09 Sep 2020, 8:01 pm

RiscaGame wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:

No, he's not.   Has he played more PRO14 matches than Sexton this season?  

Of course he has. The IRFU rests their best players in the league for the European games and test games. Which is why the pro14 a farcical competition.

They rest their players for test games?  News to me.    

All test players are subject to game and time management, wherever they're playing.

Byrne is the right selection for the final.   And he merits it too.

Feel sorry for Ulster, that they decided they needed Jonny for Munster, but can afford to bench him for little old Ulster Run
Get the money on Ulster quick, Leinster are clearly throwing the game!

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Post by mikey_dragon on Wed 09 Sep 2020, 8:37 pm

RugbyFan100 wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:https://twitter.com/MattSouth7/status/1303635792204566534

Very Happy Very Happy

Joke league

International for international.

One of them is likely to break.

Maybe Gaz. But this is undeniably a poor look for the league and broadcasters.

Oh I do see why some would see it that way. Fact is Leinster are this good, it's on the rest of us to improve and that could help partially solve the issue that you (and some others) have with the league. It's hard to get what your point is sometimes, you move from one thing to the next.

Did you see Wales/Ospreys doing the same with AWJ?

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Post by Brendan on Thu 10 Sep 2020, 12:58 am

I always find this discussion of resting players a joke. Leinster are the strongest team in the league since the decline of Munster and Ospreys.

Since the playoffs were introduced in 09/10 season, Leinster have failed to make it to the final twice. This year is the 4th out of 11 that it will be an all Irish Final.

Since its inception in the Irish for not taking it seriously have dominated the league with 4 of the 7 winners being Irish. They also rarely don't have 2-3 teams in the top/last 4. Leinster have made it 16/19 times. Imagine if Leinster did take it seriously as some claim they don't. The 3 big Irish teams have also had 9 HC final appearances in that time, I won't count semis because Leinster and Munster had to many failures to counts.

01/02 Munster (w) Leinster (f) Glasgow Ulster
02/03 Munster (w) Neath (f) Ulster Cardiff
03/04 1 Scarlets 2 Ulster 3 Dragons 4 Celtic Warriors
04/05 1 Ospreys 2 Munster 3 Leinster 4 Dragons
05/06 1 Ulster 2 Leinster 3 Munster 4 Blues
06/07 1 Ospreys 2 Blues 3 Leinster 4 Scarlets (Ulster and Munster were 2 & 3 points off 4th)
07/08 1 Leinster 2 Blues 3 Munster Edinburgh
08/09 1 Munster 2 Edinburgh 3 Leinster 4 Ospreys
09/10 Osprey (w) Leinster (f) Glasgow Munster
10/11 Munster (w) Leinster (f) Ulster Ospreys
11/12 Ospreys (w) Leinster (f) Munster Glasgow
12/13 Leinster (w) Ulster (f) Glasgow Scarlets
13/14 Leinster (w) Glasgow (f) Munster Ulster
14/15 Glasgow (w) Munster (f) Ospreys Ulster
15/16 Connacht (w) Leinster (f) Glasgow Ulster
16/17 Scarlets (w) Munster (f) Leinster Ospreys
17/18 Leinster (w) Scarlets (f) Glasgow Munster
18/19 Leinster (w) Glasgow (f) Munster Ulster
19/20 Leinster (f) Ulster (f) Edinburgh Munster

Ireland all 4 = 0
Ireland 3/4 = 7
Ireland 2/4 = 10
Ireland 1/4 = 2
Ireland 0/4 = 0

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Post by RugbyFan100 on Thu 10 Sep 2020, 9:30 am

mikey_dragon wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:https://twitter.com/MattSouth7/status/1303635792204566534

Very Happy Very Happy

Joke league

International for international.

One of them is likely to break.

Maybe Gaz. But this is undeniably a poor look for the league and broadcasters.

Oh I do see why some would see it that way. Fact is Leinster are this good, it's on the rest of us to improve and that could help partially solve the issue that you (and some others) have with the league. It's hard to get what your point is sometimes, you move from one thing to the next.

Did you see Wales/Ospreys doing the same with AWJ?

Not in a final no. That would never happen if her was fit.

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Post by Irish Londoner on Thu 10 Sep 2020, 9:50 am

RugbyFan100 wrote:
Pete330v2 wrote:

I fail to see why having the luxury of squad rotation without weakening the matchday squad looks poor for the league.

I'll help you - It might be because The Star player who has been voted World Player of the Year is being rested in a league final, and being saved for a quarter final in another competition.

Now ask yourself if that would happen in the final of Top 14 or the Gallagher Premiership. After you've asked yourself that, have a think on why the Top14 and the Premiership are able to command broadcast revenues tens of millions in excess of the Pro14.

But you won't. You''ll just ignore it and make an excuse for the Pro14.

Sexton was World Player of the Year in 2018, he's now 35 and getting past his best years, it makes sense to put him on the bench and play Bryne instead - he can be a "finisher" as Eddie would have it. As an Ulster fan I'd prefer if he did play, on current form Byrne is the better player.

With regard to TV deals, weren't we told on here when the HEC was "reformed" that TV deals were about which countries had the most viewers rather than the quality of the rugby on show - and of course even then the only English team to thrive in the new competition is the one who was financially doped and cheated it's way to the Premiership title.

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Post by Pete330v2 on Thu 10 Sep 2020, 10:11 am

RugbyFan100 wrote:
Pete330v2 wrote:

I fail to see why having the luxury of squad rotation without weakening the matchday squad looks poor for the league.

I'll help you - It might be because The Star player who has been voted World Player of the Year is being rested in a league final, and being saved for a quarter final in another competition.

Now ask yourself if that would happen in the final of Top 14 or the Gallagher Premiership. After you've asked yourself that, have a think on why the Top14 and the Premiership are able to command broadcast revenues tens of millions in excess of the Pro14.

But you won't. You''ll just ignore it and make an excuse for the Pro14.

I don't need your help on this but you really need to educate yourself on a few things before you pontificate to others.

Sexton was world player of the year in 2018, he is far from that now and as far as out-halves on the Leinster squad go I as an Ulster fan would have preferred him to play, Byrne is in better form and shape currently.
Unlike the Top14 and Premiership the Irish provinces are duty bound by the IRFU to rotate players, giving centrally contracted players enforced rest periods in order that they don't burn out before their time. The IRFU also often call the shots on what position they play in but you've probably ignored all that. Do you even know that Sexton is fit to play? Is he carrying a knock/injury and therefore isn't going to be risked by Cullen as they strive for greater glory? Do you have these insights as you busy yourself 'helping' people with your extensive knowledge?
Lastly, if the Pro14 is farcical then why are you watching it or is your online name ironic in some way.

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian on Thu 10 Sep 2020, 12:39 pm

Brendan wrote:

01/02 Munster (w) Leinster (f) Glasgow Ulster
02/03 Munster (w) Neath (f) Ulster Cardiff
03/04 1 Scarlets 2 Ulster 3 Dragons 4 Celtic Warriors
04/05 1 Ospreys 2 Munster 3 Leinster 4 Dragons
05/06 1 Ulster 2 Leinster 3 Munster 4 Blues
06/07 1 Ospreys 2 Blues 3 Leinster 4 Scarlets (Ulster and Munster were 2 & 3 points off 4th)
07/08 1 Leinster 2 Blues 3 Munster Edinburgh
08/09 1 Munster 2 Edinburgh 3 Leinster 4 Ospreys
09/10 Osprey (w) Leinster (f) Glasgow Munster
10/11 Munster (w) Leinster (f) Ulster Ospreys
11/12 Ospreys (w) Leinster (f) Munster Glasgow
12/13 Leinster (w) Ulster (f) Glasgow Scarlets
13/14 Leinster (w) Glasgow (f) Munster Ulster
14/15 Glasgow (w) Munster (f) Ospreys Ulster
15/16 Connacht (w) Leinster (f) Glasgow Ulster
16/17 Scarlets (w) Munster (f) Leinster Ospreys
17/18 Leinster (w) Scarlets (f) Glasgow Munster
18/19 Leinster (w) Glasgow (f) Munster Ulster
19/20 Leinster (f) Ulster (f) Edinburgh Munster


Glory days.

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Post by RugbyFan100 on Thu 10 Sep 2020, 1:15 pm

Pete330v2 wrote:
Lastly, if the Pro14 is farcical then why are you watching it or is your online name ironic in some way.

Because unfortunately, that is the competition my team plays in.

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Post by RugbyFan100 on Thu 10 Sep 2020, 1:16 pm

Irish Londoner wrote:

Sexton was World Player of the Year in 2018, he's now 35 and getting past his best years, it makes sense to put him on the bench and play Bryne instead - he can be a "finisher" as Eddie would have it. As an Ulster fan I'd prefer if he did play, on current form Byrne is the better player.
.

So with Byrne the better player - I take it you are expecting Byrne to start ahead of Sexton if Leinster make it to the European semi final and final?

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Post by Irish Londoner on Thu 10 Sep 2020, 1:22 pm

RugbyFan100 wrote:
Irish Londoner wrote:

Sexton was World Player of the Year in 2018, he's now 35 and getting past his best years, it makes sense to put him on the bench and play Bryne instead - he can be a "finisher" as Eddie would have it. As an Ulster fan I'd prefer if he did play, on current form Byrne is the better player.
.

So with Byrne the better player -  I take it you are expecting Byrne to start ahead of Sexton if Leinster make it to the European semi final and final?

He might well do - assuming he comes out of the Ulster game uninjured. Leinster are lucky in that they have the resource to have two players of similar quality - do you go for the experience of Sexton or the youth of Byrne? Nice problem to have.

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Post by Brendan on Thu 10 Sep 2020, 1:22 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
Brendan wrote:

01/02 Munster (w) Leinster (f) Glasgow Ulster
02/03 Munster (w) Neath (f) Ulster Cardiff
03/04 1 Scarlets 2 Ulster 3 Dragons 4 Celtic Warriors
04/05 1 Ospreys 2 Munster 3 Leinster 4 Dragons
05/06 1 Ulster 2 Leinster 3 Munster 4 Blues
06/07 1 Ospreys 2 Blues 3 Leinster 4 Scarlets (Ulster and Munster were 2 & 3 points off 4th)
07/08 1 Leinster 2 Blues 3 Munster Edinburgh
08/09 1 Munster 2 Edinburgh 3 Leinster 4 Ospreys
09/10 Osprey (w) Leinster (f) Glasgow Munster
10/11 Munster (w) Leinster (f) Ulster Ospreys
11/12 Ospreys (w) Leinster (f) Munster Glasgow
12/13 Leinster (w) Ulster (f) Glasgow Scarlets
13/14 Leinster (w) Glasgow (f) Munster Ulster
14/15 Glasgow (w) Munster (f) Ospreys Ulster
15/16 Connacht (w) Leinster (f) Glasgow Ulster
16/17 Scarlets (w) Munster (f) Leinster Ospreys
17/18 Leinster (w) Scarlets (f) Glasgow Munster
18/19 Leinster (w) Glasgow (f) Munster Ulster
19/20 Leinster (f) Ulster (f) Edinburgh Munster


Glory days.
If Ryan builds on last year it doesn't take much to get it back. Apart from Zebre (who are building on the youth coming through in italy) and Kings (possibly RIP) there isn't much between 2 and 11th. Edinburgh in 3 years have finished in their Conference 3rd, 5th and 1st due little changes in results.

All Dragons need to do is improve a little and they could finish in the playoffs. It's not that long ago they couldn't win away from home this coming season they have as good a chance as Blues and Ospreys being the second best Welsh team.

Connacht in 14/15 finished 7th on 50pts with 10 wins1 draw and 5 LBPs. In 15/16 they finished 2nd on the table with 15 wins and 5 LBPs, effectively turning the previous LBPs into wins. The thing that seems to be killing Dragons at the moment is their points scoring. If they fix that they will get more TBPs which will also lead to more wins.

If the players play as the team their 23 should be a match for most teams

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Post by Brendan on Thu 10 Sep 2020, 1:28 pm

Irish Londoner wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:
Irish Londoner wrote:

Sexton was World Player of the Year in 2018, he's now 35 and getting past his best years, it makes sense to put him on the bench and play Bryne instead - he can be a "finisher" as Eddie would have it. As an Ulster fan I'd prefer if he did play, on current form Byrne is the better player.
.

So with Byrne the better player -  I take it you are expecting Byrne to start ahead of Sexton if Leinster make it to the European semi final and final?

He might well do - assuming he comes out of the Ulster game uninjured. Leinster are lucky in that they have the resource to have two players of similar quality - do you go for the experience of Sexton or the youth of Byrne? Nice problem to have.

The year that Sexton played in the HC final v Leicester he started off the season as an AIL player and third choice at Leinster so played little (under RugbyFan management he would only have played AIL till the injury). One injury later he as getting more Pro12 matches to build him up. Injury to Contipomi and he was playing in the biggest game of Leinster's History. If he had of stayed in the AIL Leinster would have lost that finsl

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Post by Pete330v2 on Thu 10 Sep 2020, 1:50 pm

RugbyFan100 wrote:
Pete330v2 wrote:
Lastly, if the Pro14 is farcical then why are you watching it or is your online name ironic in some way.

Because unfortunately, that is the competition my team plays in.

So let me get this straight, the Pro14 is farcical because Leinster are able to rotate players whenever it suits because they have suitable backup throughout, even for a final?

Hold on, I get it now, are you like those F1 fans that claim Mercedes are ruining F1 ? You are aren't you?

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Post by RiscaGame on Thu 10 Sep 2020, 2:01 pm

Brendan wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
Brendan wrote:

01/02 Munster (w) Leinster (f) Glasgow Ulster
02/03 Munster (w) Neath (f) Ulster Cardiff
03/04 1 Scarlets 2 Ulster 3 Dragons 4 Celtic Warriors
04/05 1 Ospreys 2 Munster 3 Leinster 4 Dragons
05/06 1 Ulster 2 Leinster 3 Munster 4 Blues
06/07 1 Ospreys 2 Blues 3 Leinster 4 Scarlets (Ulster and Munster were 2 & 3 points off 4th)
07/08 1 Leinster 2 Blues 3 Munster Edinburgh
08/09 1 Munster 2 Edinburgh 3 Leinster 4 Ospreys
09/10 Osprey (w) Leinster (f) Glasgow Munster
10/11 Munster (w) Leinster (f) Ulster Ospreys
11/12 Ospreys (w) Leinster (f) Munster Glasgow
12/13 Leinster (w) Ulster (f) Glasgow Scarlets
13/14 Leinster (w) Glasgow (f) Munster Ulster
14/15 Glasgow (w) Munster (f) Ospreys Ulster
15/16 Connacht (w) Leinster (f) Glasgow Ulster
16/17 Scarlets (w) Munster (f) Leinster Ospreys
17/18 Leinster (w) Scarlets (f) Glasgow Munster
18/19 Leinster (w) Glasgow (f) Munster Ulster
19/20 Leinster (f) Ulster (f) Edinburgh Munster


Glory days.
If Ryan builds on last year it doesn't take much to get it back.  Apart from Zebre (who are building on the youth coming through in italy) and Kings (possibly RIP) there isn't much between 2 and 11th.  Edinburgh in 3 years have finished in their Conference 3rd, 5th and 1st due little changes in results.

All Dragons need to do is improve a little and they could finish in the playoffs. It's not that long ago they couldn't win away from home this coming season they have as good a chance as Blues and Ospreys being the second best Welsh team.

Connacht in 14/15 finished 7th on 50pts with 10 wins1 draw and 5 LBPs.   In 15/16 they finished 2nd on the table with 15 wins and 5 LBPs, effectively turning the previous LBPs into wins.  The thing that seems to be killing Dragons at the moment is their points scoring.  If they fix that they will get more TBPs which will also lead to more wins.

If the players play as the team their 23 should be a match for most teams

Dragons problem will always be keeping their game changers fit. Hewitt, Jordan Williams and others missed fair chunks of last season, so it's no real surprise when our backline doesn't really fire and we don't score when we create moments. I am pretty confident that we have one of the highest error counts in the league and I would wager that most of them would be in the "redzone" too. It will be interesting to see how Gordon Ross changes our attack, as we are too reliant on individual players making things happen (like the two I mentioned).

I loved Ceri Jones as forwards' coach, so was surprised to see our pack as almost the worst performing at winning scrums and particularly lineouts, so if we get that right too we will obviously improve. Our first choice team would be a match for most, especially at home. We just need to make international windows count more and not have results such as losing to Benetton and expecially Zebre at home.

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Post by RugbyFan100 on Thu 10 Sep 2020, 4:42 pm

Pete330v2 wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:
Pete330v2 wrote:
Lastly, if the Pro14 is farcical then why are you watching it or is your online name ironic in some way.

Because unfortunately, that is the competition my team plays in.

So let me get this straight, the Pro14 is farcical because Leinster are able to rotate players whenever it suits because they have suitable backup throughout, even for a final?


No, the pro14 is farcical for a huge number of reasons.

One of rugby's most recognizable players being rested for the final is just going to make the league more farcical. It's not the sole reason, which I don't think anybody claimed.

Just trying to help you understand what some think of the league, it's credibility and why the top broadcasters don't really want anything to do with it.

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Post by RugbyFan100 on Thu 10 Sep 2020, 4:43 pm

Irish Londoner wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:
Irish Londoner wrote:

Sexton was World Player of the Year in 2018, he's now 35 and getting past his best years, it makes sense to put him on the bench and play Bryne instead - he can be a "finisher" as Eddie would have it. As an Ulster fan I'd prefer if he did play, on current form Byrne is the better player.
.

So with Byrne the better player -  I take it you are expecting Byrne to start ahead of Sexton if Leinster make it to the European semi final and final?

He might well do .

It'll be interesting to see which of them starts in the top European competition then.

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