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The Ashes - official thread

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri 26 Jul 2019, 12:05 pm

First topic message reminder :

Seeing as this starts next week, I'll kick it off - the Aussies have selected their 17 man squad


Australia's Ashes squad: Tim Paine (c), Cameron Bancroft, Pat Cummins, Marcus Harris, Josh Hazlewood, Travis Head, Usman Khawaja, Marnus Labuschagne, Nathan Lyon, Mitchell Marsh, Michael Neser, James Pattinson, Peter Siddle, Steven Smith, Mitchell Starc, Matthew Wade, David Warner.

Main takeaway there is no specialist spinner selected behind Lyon, with Neser included suggests they don't anticipate many, if any, spinning wickets...
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Post by Gooseberry on Thu 01 Aug 2019, 8:49 am

As for Archer I think it wouldve been a risk simply not worth taking for this test. He has been playing through injury for some time and went straight to rehab after. hes only been back with the squad for a few days and hadn't touched a red ball for months. He would be coming in short of peak physical fitness even if fully recovered from the injury. 

To chuck such an inexperienced bowler in under those circumstances would be really risky both to the team and his long term future. You only have to look at the first innings of the Ireland game to look at the effects of asking world cup players to jump straight into a test still with a hangover. 

Its also not the pitch hes needed on. There should be plenty of movement and the middling pacers quite effective. A sunny day at Lords can be very different, and its those flat days where England have often lacked the x factor bowler. 

We dont know how he was bowling in whatever limited nets he got of course, but i suspect if he was at absolute peak and nailing every ball on the spot at 93mph with swing then the selection may have been different. But its pretty likely hes easing back in and concentrating on relearning how to bowl the lines and lengths for test cricket. 

Who he comes in for, if he does, is debatable and may come down to a number of factors including Andersons fitness. Don't rule out Sam Curran either, if Woakes does struggle hes a natural replacement for the same role with bat and ball in home conditions and also offers a point of difference to the attack. I certainly don't see Broad as indispensable, he was only been Englands 4th best bowler in home tests last summer and that was when Anderson had a quiet time.

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Post by Soul Requiem on Thu 01 Aug 2019, 9:00 am

Gooseberry wrote:
Who he comes in for, if he does, is debatable and may come down to a number of factors including Andersons fitness. Don't rule out Sam Curran either, if Woakes does struggle hes a natural replacement for the same role with bat and ball in home conditions and also offers a point of difference to the attack. I certainly don't see Broad as indispensable, he was only been Englands 4th best bowler in home tests last summer and that was when Anderson had a quiet time.

24 wickets at a shade over 18 is a quiet time?

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Post by eirebilly on Thu 01 Aug 2019, 9:42 am

Today is the day all. Been waiting for this for some time. Its a very formidable Aussie squad so the task is going to be tough.

I am not so upset that Archer is not in the team as there is more than enough proven bowlers to cover for him and he, himself, is unproven with the red ball at test level.
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Thu 01 Aug 2019, 10:15 am

Reports at the ground this morning suggest both Starc AND Hazlewood miss out. Siddle, Cummins, Pattinson to be the pace bowling lineup
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Post by Soul Requiem on Thu 01 Aug 2019, 10:17 am

Gotta say no Starc is a big relief and seeing Siddle in the team doesn't send the same shivers down the spine... watch him take 10 across the match for nothing now.

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Post by Duty281 on Thu 01 Aug 2019, 10:17 am

Looks like it'll be a win-the-toss-and-bat-first kinda day. Which spells trouble if it's Root who wins said toss!

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Reports at the ground this morning suggest both Starc AND Hazlewood miss out. Siddle, Cummins, Pattinson to be the pace bowling lineup

Seems odd to select Siddle, hard worker though he undoubtedly is, ahead of Starc and Hazlewood.

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Post by Gooseberry on Thu 01 Aug 2019, 10:22 am

Duty281 wrote:Looks like it'll be a win-the-toss-and-bat-first kinda day. Which spells trouble if it's Root who wins said toss!

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Reports at the ground this morning suggest both Starc AND Hazlewood miss out. Siddle, Cummins, Pattinson to be the pace bowling lineup

Seems odd to select Siddle, hard worker though he undoubtedly is, ahead of Starc and Hazlewood.

With no allrounder they just couldnt really play 3 out and out quicks unless Lyon was going to bowl most of the day. Siddles likely seen as the guy most able to make use of the conditions too. Perhaps a bigger surprise over Hazelwood given theyd already been clear that Pattinson and Cummins were ahead of Starc.

Two of the best bowlers fast bowler at the world cup left on the bench for this one. Both sides seem to think theres going to be plenty of movement off the pitch.

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Post by Gooseberry on Thu 01 Aug 2019, 10:29 am

Could be a bit of rain later, certainly more dark cloud. So there should be help for seamers right through the day. Friday looks like it might be the best weather we get, possibly the best time to bat.

This really has been a rotten summer.

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Post by Duty281 on Thu 01 Aug 2019, 10:32 am

Great toss for England to lose. This gives them a chance.

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Post by VTR on Thu 01 Aug 2019, 10:34 am

Let's remember it's but a week since England were terrorised by the 75mph nibblers of Tim Murtagh, so I can see the sense in the Siddle pick!


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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Thu 01 Aug 2019, 10:36 am

VTR wrote:Let's remember it's buy a week since England were terrorised by the 75mph nibblers of Tim Murtagh, so I can see the sense in the Siddle pick!

And Siddle *always* does well against England.
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Post by Duty281 on Thu 01 Aug 2019, 10:37 am

11/8 on Australia to win this test - quite generous. Anything north of 300 in this innings and England are cooked.

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Post by VTR on Thu 01 Aug 2019, 10:38 am

He does have a habit of producing. I think I read somewhere, maybe even on here, that the Aussies think they lost the last Ashes due to Starc and Co allowing England to score quickly, so they want a control option. Not sure I buy that personally, getting bundled out for a hundred odd then fifty in the next Test were where is was lost!

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Post by alfie on Thu 01 Aug 2019, 10:40 am

Word that Siddle would play has been building here for a few days...I agree with Goose he's seen as the reliable workhorse , allows Pattinson to bowl in bursts ; and don't forget he took a bunch of wickets on the last tour when finally picked at the end of the series.
He's had a bit of a resurgence lately after a quiet year or two. But I think he is probably a little underrated in England.

I am a bit surprised to see Starc falling down the pecking order though. Fitness doubts ?

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Post by guildfordbat on Thu 01 Aug 2019, 10:46 am

Whilst Starc would have been one of the first names on my Australian teamsheet, I can understand the liking for Siddle. He's a proven competitor who generally keeps it tight and knows English conditions (including the ball) best of all those in their attack from his successful periods with Essex.

In his autobiography, Pietersen rated Siddle the most difficult of all the bowlers he faced, particularly emphasising his persistence together with the occasional subtle variation. That probably speaks for Siddle's quality although does suggest he's close to his ''sell by'' date. There again, I said similar about Murtagh shorly before the start of the Ireland test.

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Post by Gooseberry on Thu 01 Aug 2019, 10:48 am

There was talk of Starc having slipped down the order in all formats ahead of the world cup, but he kind of shut that one down pretty quickly (no pun).

Aus to bat first. No great shock even if its not going to be plain sailing. I do agree that if they can get a half decent score here then England will be under a hell of a lot of pressure to win this. Id peg Aus as marginal favourites.

The betting odds here always tend to over favour england.

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Post by guildfordbat on Thu 01 Aug 2019, 10:53 am

alfie wrote:Word that Siddle would play has been building here for a few days...I agree with Goose he's seen as the reliable workhorse , allows Pattinson to bowl in bursts ; and don't forget he took a bunch of wickets on the last tour when finally picked at the end of the series.
He's had a bit of a resurgence lately after a quiet year or two.  But I think he is probably a little underrated in England.  

I am a bit surprised to see Starc falling down the pecking order though. Fitness doubts ?

Certainly not on the county circuit though, Alfie. (Hadn't seen your post when I posted my last one.)

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Post by Duty281 on Thu 01 Aug 2019, 10:55 am

Terrible rendition of Jerusalem. A huge Australian flag that doesn't look like an Australian flag brought out. Some tedious national anthems. Numbers on the shirts look horrific. Grey skies.

What a start.

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Post by Soul Requiem on Thu 01 Aug 2019, 10:55 am

Eurgh numbers on test shirts censored

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Post by compelling and rich on Thu 01 Aug 2019, 10:59 am

Duty281 wrote:Terrible rendition of Jerusalem. A huge Australian flag that doesn't look like an Australian flag brought out. Some tedious national anthems. Numbers on the shirts look horrific. Grey skies.

What a start.

anthems weren't much better

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Post by Duty281 on Thu 01 Aug 2019, 11:07 am

I thought Australians always walked? That's why they gave Broad so much stick, once upon a time, right?

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Post by compelling and rich on Thu 01 Aug 2019, 11:08 am

should have had warner already

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Post by Nathaniel Jacobs on Thu 01 Aug 2019, 11:11 am

Will the standard of umpiring ever improve? Supposedly ICC 'elite panel'...

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Post by eirebilly on Thu 01 Aug 2019, 11:14 am

The problem there was that Bairstow has a history of poor reviews and as such Root did not have much faith in his call.
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Post by eirebilly on Thu 01 Aug 2019, 11:15 am

Both Anderson and Broad bowling very well so far.
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Post by Nathaniel Jacobs on Thu 01 Aug 2019, 11:16 am

eirebilly wrote:The problem there was that Bairstow has a history of poor reviews and as such Root did not have much faith in his call.
But it's still a poor decision no? These umpires are getting paid £150,000 per year you'd think they'd get the basic ones correct

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Post by Duty281 on Thu 01 Aug 2019, 11:16 am

What a stupid review.

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Post by Soul Requiem on Thu 01 Aug 2019, 11:16 am

A review based upon knowing they missed out on getting Warner earlier, Root is pretty terrible in that respect.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Thu 01 Aug 2019, 11:16 am

Duty281 wrote:What a stupid review.

They were even saying "looks high" as they reviewed it!
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Post by eirebilly on Thu 01 Aug 2019, 11:17 am

Poor review...
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Post by Soul Requiem on Thu 01 Aug 2019, 11:17 am

Nathaniel Jacobs wrote:
eirebilly wrote:The problem there was that Bairstow has a history of poor reviews and as such Root did not have much faith in his call.
But it's still a poor decision no? These umpires are getting paid £150,000 per year you'd think they'd get the basic ones correct

Basic one?

Nobody thought it was out on first viewing and you're now basing it on more information coming to light.

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Post by alfie on Thu 01 Aug 2019, 11:18 am

England not doing well on reviews so far ! Missed the Warner tickle and then wasted an lbw that always looked likely to fail on height.

Got him now though !

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Post by Nathaniel Jacobs on Thu 01 Aug 2019, 11:18 am

Soul Requiem wrote:
Nathaniel Jacobs wrote:
eirebilly wrote:The problem there was that Bairstow has a history of poor reviews and as such Root did not have much faith in his call.
But it's still a poor decision no? These umpires are getting paid £150,000 per year you'd think they'd get the basic ones correct

Basic one?

Nobody thought it was out on first viewing and you're now basing it on more information coming to light.
I have ears as does the umpire

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Post by eirebilly on Thu 01 Aug 2019, 11:19 am

Got him this time Very Happy
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Post by Soul Requiem on Thu 01 Aug 2019, 11:20 am

So any noise is automatically a nick? All the commentators thought it was bat hitting the ground.

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Post by Duty281 on Thu 01 Aug 2019, 11:20 am

Didn't cost much, either way. Broad nailing the full length - Anderson could do with bowling a touch fuller from the other end.

Oh dear, it was missing. Hectic first 20 minutes.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Thu 01 Aug 2019, 11:21 am

Broad bowling at 87-89 mph here
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Post by eirebilly on Thu 01 Aug 2019, 11:23 am

Ooh very lucky in the end for Broad.
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Post by king_carlos on Thu 01 Aug 2019, 11:24 am

England fans pictured waving sandpaper as Warner walks off. Even if the players are 'letting it go' the barmy army were unlikely to miss out on the fun!

A really poor review followed up by the vital opening breakthrough. Anderson and Broad are bowling excellently here. England could really do with getting crack at Smith early on in this opening session.

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Post by alfie on Thu 01 Aug 2019, 11:25 am

eirebilly wrote:The problem there was that Bairstow has a history of poor reviews and as such Root did not have much faith in his call.

Is that true though ? I've heard it said : but not seen stats to back it up...my own feeling is he's probably got better as his general keeping has improved. I'd say he is like most keepers : sometimes overexcited ; but generally a fair judge.

Ha ! Warner would have got away had he reviewed his lbw ! Thought it looked a bit leg side myself to be honest .

Guess errors even out sometimes Smile

Not sure how Bancroft has avoided nicking one so far...

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Post by eirebilly on Thu 01 Aug 2019, 11:26 am

Surely its only a matter of time before one of these balls from Jimmy catches an edge. He is really bowling well.
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Post by eirebilly on Thu 01 Aug 2019, 11:29 am

I have just always thought that Bairstow was far too keen on reviewing Alfie. He would review every question for me.
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Post by Gooseberry on Thu 01 Aug 2019, 11:31 am

Kind of start we expected, getting warner early is big for the series and keeps the personal pressure on him. If they get Smith and Bancroft this morning as well, which looks likely, its a very handy start. 
Suns out now so post new ball things might well calm down before the afternoon cloud.

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Post by eirebilly on Thu 01 Aug 2019, 11:37 am

And another. Bancroft gone now Very Happy
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Post by alfie on Thu 01 Aug 2019, 11:38 am

Was just about to say Bancroft had done well - with some luck - to get through these early overs...when Broad has him edging to Root .

Broad bowling well here : did anyone want him out of te team ? 'Course not Smile

17/2

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Post by Duty281 on Thu 01 Aug 2019, 11:39 am

Bancroft was starting to look good, but Broad has found the line of dreams.

Smith out to the middle in the opening hour. Huge part of this test match already.

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Post by Gooseberry on Thu 01 Aug 2019, 11:40 am

Having a go with the new ball at Smith is very tasty. Nice to hear the crowd give him such a polite and warm welcome.

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Post by alfie on Thu 01 Aug 2019, 11:42 am

Big few overs now...Smith in. Get him and you'd fancy rolling them.

Easier said than done though !

Root going to shuffle his bowlers : Woakes on now. He's coming off a good session against Ireland . Might be happy to see these conditions...

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Post by Duty281 on Thu 01 Aug 2019, 11:46 am

Broad on fire. Bordering on unplayable. Like his spell at the Oval in '09.

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Post by LondonTiger on Thu 01 Aug 2019, 11:53 am

eirebilly wrote:I have just always thought that Bairstow was far too keen on reviewing Alfie. He would review every question for me.

Bad record with reviews as a batter, both when victim and when advising, but good record as keeper.

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