PGA Tour: The FedEx Play-Offs: Notes from the Ballwasher

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Post by kwinigolfer on Tue 06 Aug 2019, 6:56 pm

First topic message reminder :

1).Whatever anyone thinks about the 2018/2019 schedule, the fact remains that the PGA Tour's efforts to monopolise the year's golfing calendar culminate these next three weeks in the FedEx Play Offs and, at latest count, 121 of the 125 leading FedEx Points earners over the past 10 or 11 months get to play for $gazillions.

2).I'm inclined to agree with Eamon Lynch writing in GolfWeek that it would be nice if the PGA "Tour worried about what golf fans want to see, and not football fans".
But money talks and has usurped sports in every corner of the world so why should golf be any different? Perhaps FedEx will deploy their immense resources somewhere else one day, but for now we're stuck with this year's schedule.
Or at least until they decide that the NFL's "Pre Season" should also take precedence and the FedEx Play-Offs will occur before, or perhaps simultaneously with, The Open Championship?

3).FedEx Champ Justin Rose has already lamented the changes and clearly other leading pros are reviewing their seasons in light of the "compressed" series of big events.
The one comment that should resonate with the Tour is Jack Nicklaus's reflection of what made the Tour what it is, the series of "community" events staged around the country, and which are slowly being superseded by the series of mega tournaments thru'out the year - it's not clear yet whether the smaller events, and last week's stop in Greensboro could be a case in point, have regressed from "endangered species" to potentially "extinct", but the threat is there.
And, what an irony that the Tour incessantly trumpets the "charitable contributions" generated by the Tour (which helps protect the Tour's tax status), but renders expendable those events, especially in Texas, which annually makes the largest of those contributions.

4).But this is America, or at least the Big Tour, and it is what it is.

5).The Play-Offs have lost a tournament since last year, and the "Northern Trust" will now be shared by the Boston and New York markets, which in itself reminds one how ludicrous it is that NYC only gets half a Tour event per year.
125 golfers qualify for the Northern Trust, and the leading 70 in FedEx Points at close of play Sunday advance to Medinah in Chicago and the "BMW".
Then 30 move on to Hotlanta, whose event has morphed into a handicap tournament which is just about the most absurd thing in sporting history. Almost as bad as ending football games on penalties. (Rumours here that the NRA plans to take the Tour Championship over and initiate a shotgun start.)

6).I won't try to explain the handicap system as I still can't wrap by brain around it, but suffice it so say that pgatour.com describes it as offering "more drama, simplicity". You be the judge.

7).The big FedEx beneficiaries over the years have mostly been the usual suspects, but worth noting their accumulated "bonus pool" goodies nevertheless. The Top 12 have all piled up $10mil or more. $K:
28,275: Woods
15,900: McIlroy
15,247: Furyk
14,665: Spieth
14,508: Rose
13,758: Stenson
12,298: Snedeker
11,645: Horschel
11,475: Bill Haas
11,272: Singh
11,145: Thomas
10,557: Dustin Johnson
Followed by Stricker, Mickelson, Kuchar, Donald, Day.

7).Among those named above, it is quite possible that Messrs Haas and Donald will reappear, not in these Play-Offs but in the KFC series which begins on Thursday week for the leading 75 "Korn Ferry" players and #126 to #200 on the FedEx Points table. I wonder if Alex Noren will participate?

8).With 55 golfers destined to be eliminated after the Northern Trust, their next chance to tee it up on Tour will be the second week in September, in West Virginia's Greenbrier Resort. Followed by:
Sanderson Farms, Jackson, Mississippi
Safeway, Napa Valley, California
Las Vegas
Houston
Far East limited field money grabs
Bermuda (opposite field event the same week as the WGC in China)
Mayakoba, Mexico
RSM, Sea Island, Georgia

9).Sergio Garcia tees it up this week, needing a good result to move on. I'll defend Sergio to the hilt until he goes over the edge, which he seems to have done temperamentally these past few months. Will he sit himself down and take a time out, a la 2010? Or will the Tour do it for him? Both the European and PGA Tours need to be more transparent about discipline and hopefully the European Tour will publish any sanctions against Sergio and, also, of course, Thorbjorn Olesen.  

10).Off for a couple of days of tennis, a little easier for me to figure out than these Play-Offs.

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Post by kwinigolfer on Mon 19 Aug 2019, 11:13 pm

[quote="GPB"]???

Cink is not playing in KFF.

Should have guessed Kuchar, and forgot R.Jones.
Would have fumbled towards Cink (still shown as playing the KFC as far as I can see), Duval, Mize, Schiederjans etc. You mean you didn't win it?

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Post by GPB on Mon 19 Aug 2019, 11:52 pm

kwinigolfer wrote:2010 roty?
Can't imagine I would have got worked up about it, though Rickie (who, somewhat typically, didn't win in 2010) would probably be an annual recipient of the TV-and-advertisers-love-me-and-don't-care-if-I-hardly-ever-bring-home-the-W award.

I am not about to go through the archives, but I do remember a lot of accusations of jingoism and xenophobia by members of this board about Rickie winning the RoY over Rory in 2010.

My response then (and now) was:

a. Andres Romero and Marc Leishman won the 2008 and 2009 RoY's
b. Rory, as already a World Class player in 2010, should not have even been in the running for RoY. He was exempt for any tournament he wanted to play (except ToC) and was never vulnerable to the "Shuffle"

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Post by kwinigolfer on Tue 20 Aug 2019, 1:05 am

Ha!
I was definitely against Leishman winning - think I thought that Chris Kirk should have.
Regardless . . . . . . . who really cares?

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Post by GPB on Tue 20 Aug 2019, 1:28 am

I could quote a "Chicago" song, but since I think they mostly s*ck, I won't

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Post by super_realist on Tue 20 Aug 2019, 8:14 am

GPB wrote:
kwinigolfer wrote:2010 roty?
Can't imagine I would have got worked up about it, though Rickie (who, somewhat typically, didn't win in 2010) would probably be an annual recipient of the TV-and-advertisers-love-me-and-don't-care-if-I-hardly-ever-bring-home-the-W award.

I am not about to go through the archives, but I do remember a lot of accusations of jingoism and xenophobia by members of this board about Rickie winning the RoY over Rory in 2010.

My response then (and now) was:

a.  Andres Romero and Marc Leishman won the 2008 and 2009 RoY's
b.  Rory, as already a World Class player in 2010, should not have even been in the running for RoY.  He was exempt for any tournament he wanted to play (except ToC) and was never vulnerable to the "Shuffle"

I think it was because Fowler at the time hadn't even won a raffle as a pro. How could you award a Rookie of the Year (stupid award anyway) to someone who had never won anything? It's like giving a Top Scorer of the Year to a goalkeeper.

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Post by GPB on Tue 20 Aug 2019, 2:28 pm

super_realist wrote:

I think it was because Fowler at the time hadn't even won a raffle as a pro. How could you award a Rookie of the Year (stupid award anyway) to someone who had never won anything? It's like giving a Top Scorer of the Year to a goalkeeper.

To clarify, your vote (if you had one) would go to either Cameron Champ, Adam Long, Martin Trainer, Matt Wolff, or Collin Morikawa rather than Sungjae Im who is in the Tour Championship this week?

Basically you are saying that "Winning is the only thing that Matters". I disagree.

And Rickie should have absolutely should have won the RoY in 2010 over Rory. Because Rory was only a "rookie" because he had not been a member of the PGATour before. He was a Top 10 OWGR player beginning in Jan 2010. A Top 10 player should not be a rookie. That is like saying Justin Thomas would be eligible for the Henry Cotton EuropeanTour RoY should he join the Eurotour in 2020.

Thank you for your editorial comment on RoY as a stupid award.

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Post by Shotrock on Tue 20 Aug 2019, 2:33 pm

I distinctly remember the "outrage" at Rory now winning the ROY award back then. Selective memory for so many!

So let me get this straight Super ... you should ONLY win a ROY award if you won an event that Rookie year?

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Post by super_realist on Tue 20 Aug 2019, 3:04 pm

I'm sure Hovland will probably win this year, but as he's not won a tournament, he shouldn't win the award.
What's the point in the award anyway?

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Post by kwinigolfer on Tue 20 Aug 2019, 3:22 pm

US Presidents Cup Team:

Automatic qualifiers:
Koepka, Thomas, DJ, Cantlay, Schauffele, Simpson, Kuchar, BDeC.
Next four:
Finau, Woodland, Fowler, Reed.

Captain Woods reckons he might still choose himself with a Captain's Choice. Definition of delusional.
I reckon he'll be persuaded to stick with those "next four" in the rankings, which leaves Woods, Mickelson, Spieth and others out of the mix.

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Post by super_realist on Tue 20 Aug 2019, 3:36 pm

Woods is as stupid as his balloon face looks.

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Post by pedro on Tue 20 Aug 2019, 3:40 pm

By definition the ROY award presumes there’s only one important golf Tour in the world. Maybe it’s time to revise the criteria.

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Post by Shotrock on Tue 20 Aug 2019, 3:47 pm

By that logic, the only single tournament one needs to win to be the "Champion Golfer of the Year" is the British Open.

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Post by kwinigolfer on Tue 20 Aug 2019, 3:51 pm

That would be The Open Championship, surely??!!

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Post by GPB on Tue 20 Aug 2019, 4:35 pm

Stop Calling me Shirley!

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Post by GPB on Tue 20 Aug 2019, 4:56 pm

Whats the point of winning a Best Picture Oscar?

The European Tour has a Rookie of the Year, named for Henry Cotton. All the mainstream North American Sports have Rookie of the Year. NBA, NHL, NFL, MLB. The NFL has two, an offensive RoY and defensive RoY.

Hovland will not win the RoY. He was never a PGATour member in the 2018-19 year. And if he gets a 2019-20 PGATour Card, he will not be eligible for RoY as he played too many PGATournaments in the the 2018-19 season.

Hovland could however, win the Henry Cotton RoY on the EuroTour.

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Post by super_realist on Tue 20 Aug 2019, 5:02 pm

Exactly, I can't stand those stupid award ceremonies.

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Post by GPB on Tue 20 Aug 2019, 5:55 pm

super_realist wrote:Exactly, I can't stand those stupid award ceremonies.

Can't you just ignore those type of things rather than sh*tt*ng all over it?

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Post by super_realist on Tue 20 Aug 2019, 6:00 pm

Like you ignore when I mention 9C or stupid American forenames?

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Post by GPB on Tue 20 Aug 2019, 6:49 pm

In case you don't realize it, in those situations, you are doing the thread sh*tt*ng. You must be a big hit at parties.

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Post by super_realist on Tue 20 Aug 2019, 6:58 pm

GPB wrote:In case you don't realize it, in those situations, you are doing the thread sh*tt*ng.  You must be a big hit at parties.

I simply said that the ROY was a stupid and pointless award and you're the one who came out all butthurt. I would imagine it's you who is probably the big hit at parties, like an over-sensitive millennial.

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Post by GPB on Tue 20 Aug 2019, 7:28 pm

If I think a movie is stupid & pointless, I get up, and quietly leave, so I don't disturb the people who might be enjoying the show.

I have no interest in F1 racing, and I don't go into those forums and say this sport is stupid and pointless.

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Post by Davie on Tue 20 Aug 2019, 7:54 pm

super_realist wrote:
I simply said that the ROY was a stupid and pointless award and you're the one who came out all butthurt. I would imagine it's you who is probably the big hit at parties, like an over-sensitive millennial.

A massive Americanism surely? Don't you usually come out foaming at the mouth when Brits use stupid Americanisms? Doh

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Post by pedro on Tue 20 Aug 2019, 8:51 pm

GPB wrote:
 All the mainstream North American Sports have Rookie of the Year.  NBA, NHL, NFL, MLB.  The NFL has two, an offensive RoY and defensive RoY.
.
Yes but those sports don’t have rival tours / leagues who generate and develop world class players on their own. All the best players go to America much earlier than the case is in golf.

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Post by kwinigolfer on Tue 20 Aug 2019, 8:55 pm

kwinigolfer wrote:US Presidents Cup Team:

Automatic qualifiers:
Koepka, Thomas, DJ, Cantlay, Schauffele, Simpson, Kuchar, BDeC.
Next four:
Finau, Woodland, Fowler, Reed.

Captain Woods reckons he might still choose himself with a Captain's Choice. Definition of delusional.
I reckon he'll be persuaded to stick with those "next four" in the rankings, which leaves Woods, Mickelson, Spieth and others out of the mix.

Great headline on golfchannel.com:
"Commish": "Everyone would love to see Woods play Prez Cup, but no pressure."
No, course not.

And who out of Woodland, Finau, Fowler and Reed do you tell can't play because we want a bit of cheap PR?
When all Tiger's apparently been doing since Augusta is prepping for a lucrative Skins Game, plus played like a total turd in Paris last year, saying he was too tired. When Finau, Fowler and Reed were, sorry Davie, bustin' their asses for the Team - of which ETW was a Vice Captain after all.

And, no doubt Jason Day will be an Els pick for the Internationals despite the fact that he's admitted he never did much more than go through the motions at previous PC's.
Pity it's not in South Africa - and exactly why isn't it? - and then Ernie would be under no pressure to pick such a self-obsessed sick note.

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Post by GPB on Tue 20 Aug 2019, 10:28 pm

Kwini, I think you know the reason but just in case you don't.

Not a good reason or excuse, but the time difference does not work well between South Africa and USA.

Australian daylight is Prime Time Golf for the USA. Late Afternoon Evening

South African Daylight is the early hours of the USA..

Its all about the Benjamins!

Thats part of the reason why there hasn't been a West Coast Ryder Cup in over 60 years. A 6 pm West Coast time Conclusion would be 2 am in GB&I on Sunday Night Monday Morning. On a school night


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Post by kwinigolfer on Tue 20 Aug 2019, 10:57 pm

GPB wrote:Kwini, I think you know the reason but just in case you don't.

Not a good reason or excuse, but the time difference does not work well between South Africa and USA.

Australian daylight is Prime Time Golf for the USA.  Late Afternoon Evening

South African Daylight is the early hours of the USA..

Its all about the Benjamins!

Thats part of the reason why there hasn't been a West Coast Ryder Cup in over 60 years.  A 6 pm West Coast time Conclusion would be 2 am in GB&I on Sunday Night Monday Morning.  On a school night


Don't worry GPB, I hear what you say, my Aussie-based brother is earmarked for marshalling on the course.
But it's more grist to the mill of the Presidents Cup being run for and by the USA, screw the rest, screw the competition. Which is just about non-existent, the Asians don't care, Day couldn't give a toss. It's basically Duke vs Winthrop. Which, gets great ratings I'm sure. But it's hardly sport.

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Post by pedro on Wed 21 Aug 2019, 12:06 am

He won’t pick Reed.
My guess: Fowler, Finau, Phil (if he wants) and someone starting with Wood

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Post by GPB on Wed 21 Aug 2019, 12:08 am

The PGATour did start the event and it subsidizes it.

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Post by ralphjohn69 on Wed 21 Aug 2019, 12:43 am

GPB wrote:The PGATour did start the event and it subsidizes it.

And it's a complete waste of time that no-one really cares about; think we've done this before, jog on.

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Post by robopz on Wed 21 Aug 2019, 3:11 am

ralphjohn69 wrote:
GPB wrote:The PGATour did start the event and it subsidizes it.

And it's a complete waste of time that no-one really cares about; think we've done this before, jog on.
I don't believe any of the events on any of the tours are a waste of time, Presidents Cup included.  Somebody cares or they wouldn't exist. There's a bunch of events worldwide I don't care for either, but I respect them, because the fabric of golf worldwide is the collection of all the events, not just some of them.  There's something for everybody, and everything appeals to somebody,, but everything isn't for everybody. And that's just fine. Enjoy what you're like, ignore the rest. I'm sure a bunch of people are ignoring my favorites too...

I just wish the Presidents Cup would be more competitive. My suspicion is if the Internationals would just upset and pound the Americans this year, the event would grow exponentially in popularity. Part of that is nobody wants to see the year after year after year walk over... But the other part of it is the rest of the world seems to really enjoy seeing American butts kicked, regardless the sport. And I guess that's okay too...

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Post by super_realist on Wed 21 Aug 2019, 8:13 am

Davie wrote:
super_realist wrote:
I simply said that the ROY was a stupid and pointless award and you're the one who came out all butthurt. I would imagine it's you who is probably the big hit at parties, like an over-sensitive millennial.

A massive Americanism surely? Don't you usually come out foaming at the mouth when Brits use stupid Americanisms? Doh

Precisely why I used it Davie. When talking to an American, use words their simple brains can understand.

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Post by super_realist on Wed 21 Aug 2019, 8:15 am

GPB wrote:If I think a movie is stupid & pointless, I get up, and quietly leave, so I don't disturb the people who might be enjoying the show.

I have no interest in F1 racing, and I don't go into those forums and say this sport is stupid and pointless.

Yet you repeatedly prove that you don't do that. I've actually asked why you bother replying to posts on bible thumping yank golfers, stupid names and 9C, but you keep replying as if it's your duty to defend them as a "fellow American".

I'm not "disturbing the show" by making ONE statement that ROY is a pointless and useless award, but you're replying with the indignation as if I've just shagged your mum. It's one comment in a sea of comments, and if you practiced what you preached (thought you might like that one) then why aren't you just ignoring such a comment? If you hadn't replied to it, I probably wouldn't have bothered to say anything else, but it was you who kept it going.

If you mean I should just leave any topic unless I have something positive to say or any real interest in it, Why? Why shouldn't I put in my tuppence worth? What's it got to do with you? Are you the one who decides what tone should be taken with every topic like some sort of topic Nazi? No, so wind it in, and if you don't like what I say, do what you advise others to do and keep quiet. No one is making you reply.

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Post by kwinigolfer on Wed 21 Aug 2019, 4:07 pm

Interesting looking leaderboard:

https://www.pgatour.com/leaderboard.html

Who d'ya fancy?

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Post by GPB on Wed 21 Aug 2019, 4:09 pm

ralphjohn69 wrote:
GPB wrote:The PGATour did start the event and it subsidizes it.

And it's a complete waste of time that no-one really cares about; think we've done this before, jog on.

I disagree, if no one cared about it, it would not exist any more. Like the Wentworth Match Play. I think that is a European Jingoistic Point of view,

And FWIW, there is bunch of people in Australia and South Africa and Korea that don't give a Rats Bum about the Ryder Cup.

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Post by GPB on Wed 21 Aug 2019, 4:11 pm

super_realist wrote:
GPB wrote:If I think a movie is stupid & pointless, I get up, and quietly leave, so I don't disturb the people who might be enjoying the show.

I have no interest in F1 racing, and I don't go into those forums and say this sport is stupid and pointless.

Yet you repeatedly prove that you don't do that. I've actually asked why you bother replying to posts on bible thumping yank golfers, stupid names and 9C, but you keep replying as if it's your duty to defend them as a "fellow American".

I'm not "disturbing the show" by making ONE statement that ROY is a pointless and useless award, but you're replying with the indignation as if I've just shagged your mum. It's one comment in a sea of comments, and if you practiced what you preached (thought you might like that one) then why aren't you just ignoring such a comment? If you hadn't replied to it, I probably wouldn't have bothered to say anything else, but it was you who kept it going.

If you mean I should just leave any topic unless I have something positive to say or any real interest in it, Why? Why shouldn't I put in my tuppence worth? What's it got to do with you? Are you the one who decides what tone should be taken with every topic like some sort of topic Nazi? No, so wind it in, and if you don't like what I say, do what you advise others to do and keep quiet. No one is making you reply.

You just don't understand that you are a Debbie Downer

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TfE93xON8jk

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Post by kwinigolfer on Wed 21 Aug 2019, 4:25 pm

robopz wrote:
ralphjohn69 wrote:
GPB wrote:The PGATour did start the event and it subsidizes it.

And it's a complete waste of time that no-one really cares about; think we've done this before, jog on.


I just wish the Presidents Cup would be more competitive. My suspicion is if the Internationals would just upset and pound the Americans this year, the event would grow exponentially in popularity. Part of that is nobody wants to see the year after year after year walk over... But the other part of it is the rest of the world seems to really enjoy seeing American butts kicked, regardless the sport. And I guess that's okay too...


Trouble is, robo, that some of the Internationals just don't care. Jason Day obviously the most high profile, taking his cue from ETW at the Ryder Cup presumably, but some of the International Team from the last Royal Melbourne action only turned up the day before it started. One or two of them had never met before. Much better in S.Korea though, when the South Africans came to play.
And the rules, format and venues are very much the PGA Tour's choice.
Do you see any significant change this year?
No? Thought not!

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Post by McLaren on Wed 21 Aug 2019, 4:27 pm

Is there a tenner for lowest gross this week?
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Post by pedro on Wed 21 Aug 2019, 4:40 pm

At least it gives JT the opportunity to choke before it all starts.

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Post by GPB on Wed 21 Aug 2019, 8:12 pm

McLaren wrote:Is there a tenner for lowest gross this week?

The player that shoots the lowest gross score for the week will be very well compensated.

He may not win, but he will be well compensated.

Just remember, there have been several PGATour events where the player that shot the best score did not win the tournament. In the old International tournament that started in the 1980's had a structure where the Points were reset after each round. It was a modified Stableford Scoring.


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Post by pedro on Wed 21 Aug 2019, 8:28 pm

The same goes for The Barracuda. Fewest shots may not win.

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Post by wiretapper on Thu 22 Aug 2019, 11:50 am

It's Fed-Ex Cup Final weekend, the Super Bowl of golf. Are we all excited?

Laugh

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Post by kwinigolfer on Thu 22 Aug 2019, 11:56 am

wiretapper wrote:It's Fed-Ex Cup Final weekend, the Super Bowl of golf. Are we all excited?

Laugh


More like the Grand National, with JT carrying top weight.

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Post by wiretapper on Thu 22 Aug 2019, 12:16 pm

Kwini OK

To be honest, despite my moaning I'm still going to watch it

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Post by McLaren on Thu 22 Aug 2019, 12:20 pm

Does winning the tour championship still count towards pgat wins?
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Post by I'm never wrong on Thu 22 Aug 2019, 12:40 pm

Good question Mac. This is what Robo said in an earlier post, so I think that means yes. Bit strange that.

robopz wrote:PGA Tour will award the TOUR Championship and FedEx Cup trophy on LOW NET scoring... Meanwhile the OWGR will allocate winners and other finish points based on LOW GROSS

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Post by pedro on Thu 22 Aug 2019, 12:47 pm

I'm never wrong wrote:Good question Mac. This is what Robo said in an earlier post, so I think that means yes. Bit strange that.

robopz wrote:PGA Tour will award the TOUR Championship and FedEx Cup trophy on LOW NET scoring... Meanwhile the OWGR will allocate winners and other finish points based on LOW GROSS
It's a bit strange since they also seem to have a separate prize fund of $9m for the TC. And since final FEC and TC positions are same same, it doesn't really make sense. Then why not just lump it all together? Tax reasons maybe? Stats?

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Post by I'm never wrong on Thu 22 Aug 2019, 1:40 pm

Pedro, it appears there ISN'T any money for the Tour championship. I've copied the below from the PGA Tour website.

The entire bonus pool for this year’s FedExCup race is a record $70 million. That includes $10 million for the Wyndham Rewards Top 10, which was rewarded to the top players in the FedExCup standings at the end of the regular season. Brooks Koepka earned $2 million for taking first place in that competition.

First place in the FedExCup has increased from $10 million to $15 million. The runner-up will earn $5 million. Every player who makes it to East Lake will earn at least $395,000. Eight players will earn at least $1 million in FedExCup bonus money.

Every player who qualified for the FedExCup Playoffs will earn at least $100,000, while Nos. 126-150 in the final FedExCup standings all earn $70,000.

The FedExCup bonus money is the only money given for a player’s finish at East Lake. There is no longer a purse for the TOUR Championship. FedExCup bonus money is not considered part of a player’s official earnings for the season.

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Post by pedro on Thu 22 Aug 2019, 1:43 pm

thumbsup INW

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Post by I'm never wrong on Thu 22 Aug 2019, 1:50 pm

Found this:-

1: $15 million
2: $5 million
3: $4 million
4: $3 million
5: $2.5 million
6: $1.9 million
7: $1.3 million
8: $1.1 million
9: $950,000
10: $830,000
11: $750,000
12: $705,000
13: $660,000
14: $620,000
15: $595,000
16: $570,000
17: $550,000
18: $535,000
19: $520,000
20: $505,000
21: $490,000
22: $478,000
23: $466,000
24: $456,000
25: $445,000
26: $435,000
27: $425,000
28: $415,000
29: $405,000
30: $395,000

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Post by McLaren on Thu 22 Aug 2019, 2:04 pm

What is slightly weird (and no one mention that fcking stableford, we get the point) is that there will be a player who shot the lowest 72 hole strokeplay score in A PGAT event with a win missing in their career wins stat.
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