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Post by Gooseberry on Tue 06 Aug 2019, 8:21 am

First topic message reminder :

SR that's not how mental fatigue works.
Also Stokes had a long break last year ...which he came back from err ...mentaly fatigued. Buttler and Bairstow haven't had that luxury.

But anyway it's not a case of "attitude" , ask Trott and Trescothick.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Thu 15 Aug 2019, 2:30 pm

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:Rory “The Cat” Burns.

Denly did well today. Hard position to come into, pressure on him individually too, scores well, done by good bowling.

The questions are more on Roy, and it feels somewhat like there’s extra pressure on Denly because Roy is deemed to be potentially very good there and his failures then get blamed on Denly taking his potential spot.

Luckily for Roy and Denly, Burns is scoring runs again, which is good for their average
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Post by Duty281 on Thu 15 Aug 2019, 2:30 pm

Buttler won't last long, poor fellow. Footwork and head movement all over the shop. Burns showing some tenacity once again.

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Post by robbo277 on Thu 15 Aug 2019, 2:31 pm

Burns has 33% of our runs in the Ashes so far. If he can make 167 in our 501 this knock to keep that average up, that would be great.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Thu 15 Aug 2019, 2:34 pm

So after having two regulation chances dropped, Burns goes to an absolute screamer at short leg and suddenly England are back in a bit of bother.
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Post by Duty281 on Thu 15 Aug 2019, 2:34 pm

Cummins' brilliant short-pitched bowling gets a reward. Such an exquisite catch at short leg - one of the best we'll see all series.

116/4 and two new batsmen at the crease. Eeek.


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Post by Nathaniel Jacobs on Thu 15 Aug 2019, 2:34 pm

That was a ridiculous catch

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Thu 15 Aug 2019, 2:36 pm

I was watching this time, so it’s not actually me getting these wickets. Great catch, some extra grip in Bancroft’s hand there.

The Burns/Denly/Roy triumvirate is out for 83. They’ll be disappointed.

Stokes and Buttler in and I fear for England now. 250 seems a long way away

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Post by alfie on Thu 15 Aug 2019, 2:36 pm

Burns gone now...brilliant reflex grab by Bancroft clap

He might not be able to buy a run but he's done the job for Australia in the close catching positions.

Bit of trouble now for England : 116/4. Need a partnership...

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Post by compelling and rich on Thu 15 Aug 2019, 2:37 pm

what a catch that was, didn't realise it had hit his hand and re caught it until the replays

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Post by alfie on Thu 15 Aug 2019, 2:42 pm

Cummins at Stokes immediately with the short stuff...

Stokes unlikely to take a backward step so could be a lively period coming up .

Lyon on. Wonder if Jos will try to take him on ? Has been a decent run rate so far and they won't want to get tied down ; but with four wickets gone already...

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Post by Beer on Thu 15 Aug 2019, 2:48 pm

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:
The Burns/Denly/Roy triumvirate is out for 83. They’ll be disappointed.


A tad, yes. But they made 69 more than Joe Root. When you consider the amount of scrutiny they are under, and Root is chucking scores in like that, it's worrying the selectors can't see where the weak link is.

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Thu 15 Aug 2019, 2:53 pm

Jos not in any form and goes softly

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Post by Duty281 on Thu 15 Aug 2019, 2:54 pm

Duty281 wrote:Buttler won't last long, poor fellow. Footwork and head movement all over the shop.

No surprise. Don't think a rest would be the worst idea for Buttler, in truth. Well-deserved wicket for Siddle.

This session is extended by 30 minutes (tea at 16:10), so a half-decent chance of Australia bowling England out before the interval.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Thu 15 Aug 2019, 2:57 pm

Duty281 wrote:
Duty281 wrote:Buttler won't last long, poor fellow. Footwork and head movement all over the shop.

No surprise. Don't think a rest would be the worst idea for Buttler, in truth. Well-deserved wicket for Siddle.

Wouldn't disagree with that hugely...he wasn't in great nick with the bat in the world cup, and looks even more out of nick in the red ball stuff so far.

Bairstow somehow isn't out first ball...teetering on disaster here
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Post by alfie on Thu 15 Aug 2019, 2:57 pm

Oh dear...

Aussies right on top now. Fair play to them they've bowled really well...justified the call to insert England.

And England don't have Sam Curran to save them either Smile

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Post by compelling and rich on Thu 15 Aug 2019, 2:58 pm

don't forget our "strong middle order" has been backed up with a long tail. just need one of them to stick around. hopefully stokes

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Post by Duty281 on Thu 15 Aug 2019, 2:58 pm

Odds on Bairstow getting his stumps rearranged? 1/1,000.000

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Post by eirebilly on Thu 15 Aug 2019, 2:58 pm

Bairstow already looks a bit dodgy...
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Thu 15 Aug 2019, 3:02 pm

The good news is there is early turn here, so Leach is gonna have conditions to prove himself at least...
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Post by alfie on Thu 15 Aug 2019, 3:07 pm

eirebilly wrote:Bairstow already looks a bit dodgy...

He's probably not brimming with confidence at the moment...

Batting not looking too easy at the moment. Movement for the fast bowler , spin for Lyon. Aussies feeling good about sending England in , I think .

We will see later if England can exert similar pressure on the Australian lineup.

They're going to have to ! Stokes gone to Lyon...ouch.

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Post by Soul Requiem on Thu 15 Aug 2019, 3:07 pm

This is terrible, the team looks shot having played a bit of slog it cricket this year.

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Post by Duty281 on Thu 15 Aug 2019, 3:08 pm

Lyon completely outclassing Stokes and gets what is merited. 4 wickets for 36 runs - a good old English collapse in full cry.

Now, where's the rain? England need bucketloads and bathtubs of the stuff.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Thu 15 Aug 2019, 3:09 pm

So pre series the plan for England to win was really swing for Anderson up top, middle/lower order firing and Root re-finding his feet...along with Moeen continuing his form from last summer.

Fair to say, it has not gone to plan so far...

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Post by eirebilly on Thu 15 Aug 2019, 3:11 pm

200 is looking a long way away now... England's will have a job to do in the final session to try and get early Aussie wickets.
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Post by compelling and rich on Thu 15 Aug 2019, 3:11 pm

its fairly obvious that these lot can hit a ball around well when its not doing anything, but they really are terrible when the ball does anything. even in the world cup format they struggled with the bat in anything other than on flat roads

we need to stick around for the day in best batting conditions and bowl at the aussies tomorrow in overcast conditions. sadly cant see it. today will be the easiest batting will get this test match and were still awful

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Post by Soul Requiem on Thu 15 Aug 2019, 3:13 pm

Here's hoping Archer really is the second coming.

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Post by guildfordbat on Thu 15 Aug 2019, 3:14 pm

Only been watching since 2 o'clock. Enjoyed Cummins' battle with Roy - one good clever bowler full of pace up against one less skillful but mightily gutsy batsman.

I've also now read through all your posts today. Very pleased by your comments about the umpires - ie nothing said at all. I did express the hope in the last test that Chris Gaffaney would bring some order to the proceedings - still a long way to go but pleased the talk so far is about the play and the players.

Meanwhile, Siddle doing what Siddle does and England struggling at 142/6 ....

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Post by alfie on Thu 15 Aug 2019, 3:16 pm

Credit due to Australia for excellent bowling and good attack plans.

But yes , very disappointing from England. There just doesn't seem to be the same belief there at the moment , that they show in White ball cricket.
Which is slightly odd as they are largely the same players. Have to think most of this is mental. Certainly this is not Cook Strauss Trott Pietersen Bell Collingwood Prior. But I think they are collectively playing well under their ability at present.

How much is down to WC hangover is anyone's guess ; but they need to snap out of it quickly.

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Post by VTR on Thu 15 Aug 2019, 3:17 pm

This series is going to be an absolute hammering, strangely though I am not really bothered as England were no way ready for this series.

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Post by robbo277 on Thu 15 Aug 2019, 3:18 pm

In the last two tests England have played the team batting first has gone on to win despite having been:
85 all out (Eng vs Ire)
122-8 (Aus vs Eng)

Not over yet.

Also, Jofra.

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Post by Gooseberry on Thu 15 Aug 2019, 3:19 pm

Buttler is not a test batsman either is he. England really do have a problem to to bottom.
It's a bit unfair to wtitebthem all off as flat track bullies though, there are players who have made good centuries in tough tests ( and tbf I'd even include Mo in that) and are clearly better than they have been producing lately. The two that stand out for that are Root and Bairstow.
England have long had a collective panic mode they've tended to hit and it does seem the intensity of all those must win WC matches has left a lot of them scrambled. Any coincidence that Burns is doing OK but dont play in that?
It's hard to see how they get back in this series from here, Smiths smug face is going to be unbearable

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Post by Duty281 on Thu 15 Aug 2019, 3:19 pm

alfie wrote:Credit due to Australia for excellent bowling and good attack plans.

Yep, for all the justifiable criticism directed at England, the Australian four have all bowled excellently to clearly established plans and have been duly rewarded for their efforts so far.

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Post by Gooseberry on Thu 15 Aug 2019, 3:21 pm

Archer the new Flintoff who was the new Botham who was the second coming of christ.
Let's not mention Craig White.

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Post by alfie on Thu 15 Aug 2019, 3:22 pm

guildfordbat wrote:Only been watching since 2 o'clock. Enjoyed Cummins' battle with Roy - one good clever bowler full of pace up against one less skillful but mightily gutsy batsman.

I've also now read through all your posts today. Very pleased by your comments about the umpires - ie nothing said at all. I did express the hope in the last test that Chris Gaffaney would bring some order to the proceedings - still a long way to go but pleased the talk so far is about the play and the players.

Meanwhile, Siddle doing what Siddle does and England struggling at 142/6 ....

Hi guildford

Think you meant Cummins v Burns Smile Roy didn't fire a shot , I'm afraid.

I have really warmed to Burns. He had a fair slice of luck today. But he's - at the moment ! - top score again for England ; and he really puts a value on his wicket...

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Post by compelling and rich on Thu 15 Aug 2019, 3:22 pm

extras good chance of being second highest scorer for us in this one


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Post by Soul Requiem on Thu 15 Aug 2019, 3:24 pm

Now that we've won the world cup it's time to give the players a choice, you either play test cricket or limited overs, unless you're a Root type the two are no longer compatible.

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Post by alfie on Thu 15 Aug 2019, 3:26 pm

VTR wrote:This series is going to be an absolute hammering, strangely though I am not really bothered as England were no way ready for this series.

Looks pretty grim but I'm not hoisting the white flag yet. Australia (apart from Smith) aren't any special batting side. A lot can happen in a session or two...

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Thu 15 Aug 2019, 3:27 pm

alfie wrote:
VTR wrote:This series is going to be an absolute hammering, strangely though I am not really bothered as England were no way ready for this series.

Looks pretty grim but I'm not hoisting the white flag yet.  Australia (apart from Smith) aren't any special batting side.  A lot can happen in a session or two...

Lets hope Woakes/Bairstow repeat their feat of last summer batting together at Lords...
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Post by eirebilly on Thu 15 Aug 2019, 3:28 pm

Woakes and Bairstow to both make 50's and England AO for 290?

I would take that from here.
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Post by compelling and rich on Thu 15 Aug 2019, 3:31 pm

Soul Requiem wrote:Now that we've won the world cup it's time to give the players a choice, you either play test cricket or limited overs, unless you're a Root type the two are no longer compatible.

we wouldn't have a test side, theres is barely any 4 day cricket played and all the money for players is in the shorter format.

it isn't just us either, this aus batting line up is poor minus smith. the aussies will win this series because they have smith, better spin option and have bowled better

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Post by Duty281 on Thu 15 Aug 2019, 3:34 pm

eirebilly wrote:Woakes and Bairstow to both make 50's and England AO for 290?

I would take that from here.

I'd take 250 from here, maybe even 225. Can't expect an awful lot from Archer/Broad/Leach (although Archer has a more than credible FC batting average).

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Post by robbo277 on Thu 15 Aug 2019, 3:34 pm

The next 30 overs should be cash in time. Set batsman going after tired returning bowlers. Our rate has been good and if we had set batsman we could be adding 120 in this period before the second new ball. As it is we have 7 and 8 starting up and, while they're capable with the bat we don't have that much behind them.

Just need to eek out as many as we can and give ourselves something to bowl at. Smith did it with worse support in the first test, but we don't have Steve Smith at the crease.

If we can get to the 80 over mark with 260 or so on the board and give ourselves a few overs at Australia before a premature close in terms of overs (because of the over rate), then that would be a good recovery from here and, considering we were inserted, not the worst day.

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Post by eirebilly on Thu 15 Aug 2019, 3:36 pm

A big let off for Bairstow there.
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Post by Soul Requiem on Thu 15 Aug 2019, 3:50 pm

Mitchell Johnson comes across very well on commentary, much better than McGrath who struggles to hide his smugness.

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Post by alfie on Thu 15 Aug 2019, 3:52 pm

Apart from the two drops ...and one set of overthrows ...the Australian fielding has been brilliant. A lot of very well timed shots have been cut off today - really helps to keep the batsmen under pressure when they get no reward for their good strokes.

And as mentioned before , their planning for each batsman has been first class. Something England really need to do much better. So far they seem to have about half a dozen plans for Smith - none of which work. (And they change them too often anyway). Plans for Head and Wade - if they have them ? - weren't too evident in the second innings at Edgbaston.

180 up . Seems a minor success Smile

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Post by eirebilly on Thu 15 Aug 2019, 3:52 pm

How many more warnings do the Aussies need about standing too deep at slips?
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Post by eirebilly on Thu 15 Aug 2019, 3:57 pm

Much better from Bairstow. The 50 partnership is up, very much needed partnership.
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Post by alfie on Thu 15 Aug 2019, 3:58 pm

Soul Requiem wrote:Mitchell Johnson comes across very well on commentary, much better than McGrath who struggles to hide his smugness.

Agreed. He seems a genuinely nice chap...(not to say McGrath isn't !) And his comments have been considered and fair.

In truth , the "nasty fast bowler" thing always seemed like a manufactured persona ... Never was convincing even with the tattoos Smile

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Thu 15 Aug 2019, 4:01 pm

The Aussies have bowled excellently, their use of reviews however...abysmal.
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Post by eirebilly on Thu 15 Aug 2019, 4:03 pm

That could be one of the worst reviews I have seen...
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