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The Ashes - official thread

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Post by Soul Requiem Sat 7 Sep - 23:49

First topic message reminder :

I don't understand why Buttler isn't hogging the strike here.

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler Thu 12 Sep - 23:43

Blimey

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Post by Duty281 Thu 12 Sep - 23:44

Toughest of the three but still should have been taken.

Root into his fourth innings...

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Thu 12 Sep - 23:46

Ever since they did that feature on Root batting better, he's played like a club cricketer
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Post by Afro Thu 12 Sep - 23:48

Carey is better than Paine at both.

Wade
Bancroft keeps I think?
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Post by compelling and rich Thu 12 Sep - 23:49

sooner rather than later here for root, looks all at sea

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Post by Soul Requiem Thu 12 Sep - 23:56

Afro wrote:Carey is better than Paine at both.

Wade
Bancroft keeps I think?
Hanscomb

He's got a very average first class record that is almost identical to Paine when you disregard test matches while he is the inferior wicketkeeper.

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler Thu 12 Sep - 23:56

Just been told that Burns has scored more runs this series than Cook did in any home Ashes

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Post by king_carlos Thu 12 Sep - 23:56

Too many of this England batting line-up use off drives as a forward defence and at times it just looks village. Seamers hang the ball up on a good to full length and our top order can't resist.

Come on Joe, knuckle down.

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Post by Pal Joey Thu 12 Sep - 23:59

Root has just passed Bradman... now on 7,000 runs Smile

btw, a house where the Don lived is up for sale... if anyone's interested.

Spoiler:
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Post by Dolphin Ziggler Fri 13 Sep - 0:06

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:Just been told that Burns has scored more runs this series than Cook did in any home Ashes

I’m sorry.

I blame Holding. He analysed Burns having improved on the short ball. And since they showed how much better Root was batting, he’s been dirt. Just do pieces on how bad Bairstow is, that makes him good again.

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Post by Duty281 Fri 13 Sep - 0:07

Burns v short ball = disaster.

Shame really as he looked in control until then. Two down and we're into the all-rounders and wicketkeepers section.

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Post by Gooseberry Fri 13 Sep - 0:13

Picking holes in burns when hes the most succesful top 3 bat we have has since cook is a bit rum IMO.

Sure theres areas he could improve but getting out to newish ball body line from an attack folk were describing as hands down the best in the world isn't that shameful.

Hes the least concern Englands top 7 should have right now.

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Post by Soul Requiem Fri 13 Sep - 0:17

Burns plays the short ball pretty well which seems to be half the problem, he gets more confident then gets out playing a short when he'd been leaving well.

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Post by Gooseberry Fri 13 Sep - 0:22

Scrolling back up....yeah people have this idea that Carey is a batsman keeper based on one innings at the world cup. It's not quite as exaggerated as the calls for leach to bat at two but the same sort of thing.
Paines place would be under scrutiny if he wasnt a winning captain. He only got in the side at all after years of being down the pecking order behind the likes of Neville out of desperation to find a wicket keeper and a senior player who wasnt associated with the sandpaper issues. From a leadership perspective hes done the job very well. As a keeper and as a batsman hes distinctly average, and with Australia acking quality all rounders ( although labuschange has some potential) it's hard to ballance a side with him in.
I'm not sure the competition for his spot is that strong though, Wade came into this series with a lot of batting form and failed. He and Bancroft are only part time keepers now.
Carey has to be a lot better to push Paine out of the captaincy.

I dont rate Paine. I dont think hes going to lose his place any time soon.

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Post by king_carlos Fri 13 Sep - 0:23

Burns has had a good series all things considered. 1.Burns and 4.Root should be set in stone for the NZ tour. What happens at 2 and 3 is anyone's guess!

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Post by Pal Joey Fri 13 Sep - 0:43

Perfect batting conditions now. Australia... you blew it! steam
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Post by Dolphin Ziggler Fri 13 Sep - 0:49

Interesting how much swing Marsh is getting in comparison to the rest of the attack. And he’s done Stokes, who has given him a wicket and I am tempted to ban PJ for that jinx Very Happy

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Fri 13 Sep - 0:50

Bounced out by Mitchell Marsh...jesus christ Ben
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Post by Dolphin Ziggler Fri 13 Sep - 0:50

Outrageous by Stokes really and he’s as annoyed with himself as everyone should be with him

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Post by Duty281 Fri 13 Sep - 0:51

Terrible shot. I love Stokes, but he hasn't half got out in some daft ways this summer.

Aussies on top. 350 is a long way off.

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Post by compelling and rich Fri 13 Sep - 0:52

oh for a England batting line up that didn't get itself out

imagine what smith will do on this pitch

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Post by VTR Fri 13 Sep - 0:52

England just can't help attacking. Hard to be too critical of Stokes after the summer he's had, but we desperately need a top 6 with two stroke players at most. Stokes is a stroke player, often playing within himself. He is nailed on top 6 for me but not alongside Denly, Bairstow and Buttler.

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Post by Pal Joey Fri 13 Sep - 0:54

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:Interesting how much swing Marsh is getting in comparison to the rest of the attack. And he’s done Stokes, who has given him a wicket and I am tempted to ban PJ for that jinx Very Happy

Sorry! Smile I really meant it.

btw, you're the 3rd highest point scorer today. 4th overall and rising.
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Post by king_carlos Fri 13 Sep - 1:01

VTR wrote:England just can't help attacking. Hard to be too critical of Stokes after the summer he's had, but we desperately need a top 6 with two stroke players at most. Stokes is a stroke player, often playing within himself. He is nailed on top 6 for me but not alongside Denly, Bairstow and Buttler.
4.Root
5.Stokes
6.Pope/Bairstow
7.Bairstow/Foakes

Either take the gloves off Bairstow and bring Foakes in or let Jonny keep the gloves and bring Pope in. Those are the best two options in the middle order in my opinion.

Once again does nothing to help the top 3 though.

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler Fri 13 Sep - 1:03

Pal Joey wrote:
Dolphin Ziggler wrote:Interesting how much swing Marsh is getting in comparison to the rest of the attack. And he’s done Stokes, who has given him a wicket and I am tempted to ban PJ for that jinx Very Happy

Sorry! Smile I really meant it.

btw, you're the 3rd highest point scorer today. 4th overall and rising.

Like the Aussies, I too dropped Root today. I’d be very happy if he punished me immensely

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Post by eirebilly Fri 13 Sep - 1:03

Siddle is the perfect bowler to give Bairstow some confidence.
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Post by eirebilly Fri 13 Sep - 1:16

I thought the selection of Marsh was a massive mistake but he has bowled very well and is getting some movement.

The Marsh's are some cricket dynasty in Australia.
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Fri 13 Sep - 1:42

52 overs bowled by tea...is not great.
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Post by eirebilly Fri 13 Sep - 1:44

169-3 at tea is a very good score for England. Thought that they may be a bit better this test now that the pressure is slightly off.
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Post by Duty281 Fri 13 Sep - 1:55

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:52 overs bowled by tea...is not great.

It often baffles me. Over-rates in county cricket are, almost always, more than fine. What is it about the step up to test cricket that makes the game slow down so much?

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Post by eirebilly Fri 13 Sep - 1:57

Only bowling 4-6 overs of spin in the first 52 overs may account for the slow over rate somewhat.
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Post by Soul Requiem Fri 13 Sep - 1:57

Duty281 wrote:
Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:52 overs bowled by tea...is not great.

It often baffles me. Over-rates in county cricket are, almost always, more than fine. What is it about the step up to test cricket that makes the game slow down so much?

Simple answer is it gives a depleted mainly three man pace attack more time to recover.

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Post by Duty281 Fri 13 Sep - 1:58

This is the best pitch and best overhead conditions I've seen all summer. 350 is the minimum needed. Root has been gifted chance after chance - he must go big from here.

And laughable to note that today's opening partnership of 27 is the highest such partnership all series!

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Post by eirebilly Fri 13 Sep - 2:07

I am not complaining about the score as I think England have done very well but I cant help but feel the Aussies would be going at over four runs an over in these conditions.
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Post by Dolphin Ziggler Fri 13 Sep - 2:16

Marsh looking very effective.

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Post by guildfordbat Fri 13 Sep - 2:18

eirebilly wrote:I am not complaining about the score as I think England have done very well but I cant help but feel the Aussies would be going at over four runs an over in these conditions.

And Paine had the opportunity for his team to try.

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Post by eirebilly Fri 13 Sep - 2:18

Pressure is building now. Something has to give...
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Post by Dolphin Ziggler Fri 13 Sep - 2:18

And Cummins gets Root. England will be short of 300 here

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Fri 13 Sep - 2:18

Cummins gets Root with an absolute seed.
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Post by eirebilly Fri 13 Sep - 2:18

My bad...
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Post by Duty281 Fri 13 Sep - 2:21

Amazing ball after a good spell of pressure. Amazing consistency from Cummins in this series - just once in eight innings this series has he failed to take three wickets or more. He's on for at least a 3-fer again!

170/4. Not much batting to come.

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Post by Gooseberry Fri 13 Sep - 2:22

At risk of repeating myself . .look at the score, add two wickets, take them off again because england are rubbish without that handicap.

But everything will be fine if Burns stops getting g out to short balls.

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Post by Soul Requiem Fri 13 Sep - 2:27

That's the series in a microcosm, Root has gone past 50 four times in the series but not gone on yet, an all too familiar problem and compare that to Smith who has gone three times so far.

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Post by eirebilly Fri 13 Sep - 2:32

Bairstow has not scored since tea. He is not looking that comfortable either.
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Post by Gooseberry Fri 13 Sep - 2:36

As for Stokes ..he will be remembered in this Ashes series for that in ings which won a test match in p a way only he really can. I mean it was incredible.
It will be forgotten that the rest of the time hes failed with the bat and largely been ineffective and expensive with the ball.
I kknow theres a theory he can bat at 3 but I cant help feeling hes way too inconsistent to deliver what England need at the moment from that position.
And that's another reason why I'd rather have Ppe or Bairstow sans gloves making up the top 6 ahead of Buttler who is way too much of a luxury player.
To be a good batting side they need players who can average 40 plus. In lieu of those existing some cone can reliably get 30's and occasionally more but rarely less than 20 would give something for Stokes to do his magic around and take some pressure off Root who looks like hes carrying the weight of top 8 on his shoulders.
Burns is about there with the bare minimum. Bairstow is capable of it. Denly and Buttler ...ones just not good enough the other was bought in to bat 7 and change games with blazing cameos. We just dont need that when 300 is a struggle first up.


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Post by Dolphin Ziggler Fri 13 Sep - 2:36

Marsh tears England apart and Frak this England team

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Post by Soul Requiem Fri 13 Sep - 2:36

This really is a rotten batting line up, please no more Bairstow.

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Post by Soul Requiem Fri 13 Sep - 2:38

Gooseberry wrote:As for Stokes ..he will be remembered in this Ashes series for that in ings which won a test match in p a way only he really can. I mean it was incredible.
It will be forgotten that the rest of the time hes failed with the bat and largely been ineffective and expensive with the ball.
I kknow theres a theory he can bat at 3 but I cant help feeling hes way too inconsistent to deliver what England need at the moment from that position.
And that's another reason why I'd rather have Ppe or Bairstow sans gloves making up the top 6 ahead of Buttler who is way too much of a luxury player.
To be a good batting side they need players who can average 40 plus. In lieu of those existing some cone can reliably get 30's and occasionally more but rarely less than 20 would give something for Stokes to do his magic around and take some pressure off Root who looks like hes carrying the weight of top 8 on his shoulders.
Burns is about there with the bare minimum. Bairstow is capable of it. Denly and Buttler ...ones just not good enough the other was bought in to bat 7 and change games with blazing cameos. We just dont need that when 300 is a struggle first up.


Stokes is currently averaging over 53 in this series.

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Post by Duty281 Fri 13 Sep - 2:38

Selfish review from Bairstow, that was absolutely stone dead. Make that five batsmen who have got starts and five batsmen who haven't kicked on to a big score. Impressed with how Marsh has done today.

This is trouble now. Just two wickets from the tail.

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Post by Gooseberry Fri 13 Sep - 2:39

SR I see Root still being one if the nailed on best performing batsmen despite his struggles being a bigger issue than his lack of centuries.
I mean sure it would be nice if he made 100 but if someone else could pass 50 as well you kinda get the same end product.

It's fair to say though that austrlias top talents have absolutely smashed this series, whereas englands have just done ok to well. Aus have a similar number if passengers to England, but cummins and Smith have made them look a class apart.

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