Glasgow and Edinburgh banter thread no. 23 - New season, new thread

by **BigGee** Mon 09 Sep 2019, 5:34 pm

First topic message reminder :

Well a new season is probably time to start off a new thread.

2 weeks to the start of the season and both sides with one more pre season game to go. A lot of unknowns this season again, due to the number of players away with Scotland and other countries for the WC.

For Glasgow, can they continue their general excellence that took them on a fantastic end of season run to the Pro 14 Final, where they just fell short. It might be their last campaign under Dave Rennie, so can they go one better?

Edinburgh also have questions to ask, the main one being whether they can ever pass the ball past the FH and how soon before their wingers are likely to go blue from hypothermia? On a more positive note though, they may finally be playing in Mini Murrayfield by autumn 2020. So only one more year to bear playing in the library!

Good luck to both teams for the coming season, though Edinburgh are more likely to need it than Glasgow!

by 123456789. Mon 25 Nov 2019, 3:10 pm

I've a slightly more philosophical attitude toward the Huw Jones rumours. Evidently things are not working for him at Glasgow, and by extension Scotland. There is obviously an issue, either personal or professional, between him and Rennie. If it continues in this way for much longer Scotland risk losing their best centre of the professional era without a tangible reason. I think a Joe Marchant type deal would perhaps be best. A chance for him to regain his mojo and return to the fold under a different coach. With Russell gone, Hogg gone and Seymour getting on a bit then Jones really ought to become the star of the Glasgow backline.
For Scotland we can get by with Johnson and Hutchinson, maybe even Harris for the Six Nations. Of course an on form Jones would be best but that does not seem likely at the moment.

by **NeilyBroon** Mon 25 Nov 2019, 7:08 pm

In other news, shrek is a real life local hero!
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/50549007

by tigertattie Mon 25 Nov 2019, 9:35 pm

NeilyBroon wrote:In other news, shrek is a real life local hero!
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/50549007

What an utter legend

“He legged it like usain bolt

He’s got a great turn of phrase. He needs to become a pundit one day. Him and Peter Wright on the same pundit team would be comedy gold.

I bet he went in to make sure there was no Katsu chicken curry burning.

by **NeilyBroon** Mon 25 Nov 2019, 10:16 pm

My favourite was "I'm just glad it wasn't my tumble drier and having to replace it for 300 quid after being told off by my wife"

by **George Carlin** Tue 26 Nov 2019, 5:59 am

Presumably he had to draw on every last shred of Ayrshire awesomeness to be that heroic.

by bsando Tue 26 Nov 2019, 2:00 pm

Hutchinson is staying at Saints, contract length hasn’t been disclosed. Probably best for him to stay there he’s tearing it up.

by **RDW** Tue 26 Nov 2019, 2:23 pm

Good on him - he'll hopefully be on decent money now as he's established himself as a key player for them. Can't see him moving to Scotland any time soon.

by funnyExiledScot Tue 26 Nov 2019, 4:56 pm

Happy for him to stay there. Saints are moving in the right direction and he is core to what they do. Anyway, both Scottish sides have tidy options at 13, even if Glasgow are ruining Jones (ruining players used to be exclusive to Edinburgh!!).

by Hazel Sapling Tue 26 Nov 2019, 6:28 pm

Already too many centres in Scotland. Leaves Hutchinson to try and convince Fraser Dingwall to return to the Scottish fold if he comes good.

How is the Super 6 going? Has it raised standards?

by jimbopip Tue 26 Nov 2019, 7:38 pm

Gee, I'm at home tomorrow so I'll do a thread for Saturday's match if that's ok.

Got home tonight to find herself had made katsu chicken curry. Yahoo

"Its delicious but what's this white stuff?"
"That's rice, you've had it before."
"Shrek has chips with his....and he saved Usain Bolt from a burning building. "
She gave me A LOOK, the milk in my tea curdled.

When I switched the puter on to post this the search history read CARE HOMES FOR THE BEWILDERED , ESSEX

I am somewhat concerned.

by funnyExiledScot Wed 27 Nov 2019, 9:07 am

Well at least she's looking at local care homes. That's nice. Hold onto that.

by tigertattie Wed 27 Nov 2019, 11:46 am

funnyExiledScot wrote:Well at least she's looking at local care homes. That's nice. Hold onto that.

You haven't seen the go fund me page!!!

Send Jimbo to a run down "care" home that used to be a PoW camp in the hills of vietnam .com

by **BigGee** Wed 27 Nov 2019, 12:29 pm

tigertattie wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:Well at least she's looking at local care homes. That's nice. Hold onto that.

You haven't seen the go fund me page!!!

Send Jimbo to a run down "care" home that used to be a PoW camp in the hills of vietnam .com

I'd choose Vietnam over parts of Essex any day!

by tigertattie Wed 27 Nov 2019, 8:33 pm

Any techy/music types that can recommend a good Bluetooth speaker? It’s about time I got rid of thon big hifi in the spare room

by king_carlos Wed 27 Nov 2019, 9:24 pm

tigertattie wrote:Any techy/music types that can recommend a good Bluetooth speaker? It’s about time I got rid of thon big hifi in the spare room

I've got a Sonos speaker at home and it's great. Looks great and good sound quality. Pricey but I've had it a good few years now and it works exactly the same as new despite a few flat moves.

If you're wanting something portable then JBL are a reliably good brand. They have a wide range of sizes/prices and are near enough indestructible - working in a kitchen I once saw one dropped in a stock pot, fished back out, dried under heat lamps and still work!

by **RDW** Wed 27 Nov 2019, 9:26 pm

Aye JBL are good - I've got a small JBL flip for playing round the flat and it sounds great and not expensive.

by **BigGee** Thu 28 Nov 2019, 12:32 am

https://www.606v2.com/t69277-glasgow-warriors-v-leinster-saturday-30th-november#3870517

Sorry Jim, was not sure if you were going to do it or not, so banged it out as a little bit of downtime on a night shift!

Feel free to do this next one

by **RDW** Thu 28 Nov 2019, 12:03 pm

https://www.606v2.com/t69278-munster-v-edinburgh#3870608

Hamish is back!

by **RDW** Thu 28 Nov 2019, 1:44 pm

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/50586730

Typical honest Cockers interview!

by **BigGee** Thu 28 Nov 2019, 2:56 pm

https://www.theoffsideline.com/tom-galbraith-southern-knights/

Nice interview with Tom Gailbraith, who had a year with Edinburgh a few years back, without ever getting a game, largely due to injury so it seems.

It shows how hard it can be for a young player to break through and how hard it can be when it does not work out.

Good to see him enjoying his rugby again with the Southern Knights.

by **BigGee** Thu 28 Nov 2019, 3:03 pm

RDW wrote:https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/50586730

Typical honest Cockers interview!

He really is box office for the Journos, who else gives an interview like that these days!

by Hazel Sapling Fri 29 Nov 2019, 3:52 pm

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/50604554

He has returned

by jimbopip Fri 29 Nov 2019, 4:04 pm

Hazel Sapling wrote:https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/50604554

He has returned

What does that mean for Alex Allan? Shocked

by **BigGee** Sun 01 Dec 2019, 11:49 am

Not a question I ever though I would find myself asking, but do we think that Rennie will actually see out the season with Glasgow?

It just is not happening at the moment and maybe it would make more sense all round to bring Wilson straight in after the 6N is over, so that at least he can get a head start for next year.

It might be better all round!

by bsando Sun 01 Dec 2019, 12:49 pm

Possibly, but still hard to tell if it is proper panic stations yet. What seems pretty clear is Glasgow could do with a better 10 after Hastings and a replacent for Hogg at FB. DTH, Seymour, Matawalu are all in the closing stages of their careers now and that’s before even looking at the pack.

If I were to predict Glasgow’s final standing in the Pro 14 this season I’d say 5th or 6th currently and missing out on the champions cup.

In terms of the Pro14, two very tough inter city derby games coming up soon which could see Glasgow tumble down the rankings. If they can get two wins against La Rochelle then perhaps that will give them a big confidence boost going forwards in the Pro14? They really need to stop the rut though and play with a bit more composure.

by **RDW** Sun 01 Dec 2019, 12:58 pm

Similar to Edinburgh I think a season in the Challenge Cup would be no bad thing - takes some of the pressure off Wilson allowing him to rebuild the squad.

by **BigGee** Sun 01 Dec 2019, 1:10 pm

The squad certainly needs some rebuilding

Swinson, Fusaro, Horne P, Seymour, DTH, Niko in particular all seem to be passed their best and a few others look like they msy never quite make the grade.

I would still be surprised if we don't Euro qualify though. Cheetahs can't qualify, which could be our saving grace

by **BigGee** Sun 01 Dec 2019, 3:28 pm

The Rugby Paper suggesting Glasgow might be after Gary Graham.

Probably a good move for both parties. We need an abrasive forward and it puts him back into the international frame.

I would be happy with that one

by **BigGee** Sun 01 Dec 2019, 4:02 pm

https://scrummagazine.com/its-my-lifetime-goal-to-represent-scotland-says-former-scotland-u20s-and-gloucester-lock/

Interview with Alex Craig

by tigertattie Sun 01 Dec 2019, 7:25 pm

Glasgow need more than Graham to fix that pack.

Jonny Gray has stagnated. He’s completely lacking physicality and he’s just too nice. Glasgow need a couple of forwards that basically want to hurt their opposition.

Cummings is a prospect but even he lacks in that killer instinct.

The Glasgow props are just units. There’s no bite to them.

The back row, while mobile, is softer than the skin on FES’s hands.

Hastings is a 10 that loves a platform. The Glasgow forwards just aren’t going that platform.

Usually I strut about saying how much looking forward to Glasgow getting humped in the 1872 games but this year, for the sake of Scottish rugby, I hope they at least put in a challenge.

It really is a massive fall from grace for the once (but on current showing, never again future) champions.

by Pot Hale Sun 01 Dec 2019, 7:37 pm

BigGee wrote:The squad certainly needs some rebuilding

Swinson, Fusaro, Horne P, Seymour, DTH, Niko in particular all seem to be passed their best and a few others look like they msy never quite make the grade.

I would still be surprised if we don't Euro qualify though. Cheetahs can't qualify, which could be our saving grace

This. If Glasgow can't Euro-qualify because Dragons, Ospreys and Zebre are better than them, then the problem is definitely not Rennie. The other conference is a lot tighter and I can see Cardiff and Benetton both coming back into the mix for qualifying spots.

Cheetahs are looking better this year and could definitely push you for a quarter-final spot in the Championship though, as things stand. Mind you, Ulster have a mid-season brain fart occasionally so it could all look a bit different by end January.

by Hazel Sapling Sun 01 Dec 2019, 8:10 pm

Well, Glasgow had another terrible performance. That Leinster team was there for the taking in the first half and we let them back into it.

For me, P Horne missing that easy kick at 5-0 and Leinster stormed down the field and got 3 points of their own was the start of the end. It was a 6 point swing and gave Leinster confidence. P Horne was the one who knocked on to give Leinster possession for the second try though I may be harsh on that one.

Taking a wider picture, the squad building at Glasgow has been poor in 2019. If H Jones is not a starter, why did we break the bank to stop him leaving? Ashe, Smith, Davidson and Nairn have also been underutilised if not completely ignored. Rennie should have noticed by now that we don't have a Currie Cup or Mitre Cup type provincial competition that young players can grow in. They have to be given game time during the season and waiting til the Six Nations to blood them is not a great place to be.

Rennie's coaching has been conservative this season around the half backs. He left Thomson on when he was having a nightmare against Newport to the point that he has not played since. Today, P Horne started struggling and he left him at 10 the entire game when he could have changed him for Jackson. He keeps selecting Frisby who has been awful rather than the young gun Dobie. His reluctance to recognise players are struggling in key positions and making an adjustment has really hurt us.

There is still 15 games still to go in the league and the key slate for Europe is the next two weeks. A lot can change, but it has been a gutting first third of the season.

by bsando Mon 02 Dec 2019, 8:56 am

P Horne better at 10 for easier fixtures in my opinion. Against Leinster at home it seems a bit of a weird selection, he's not a brilliant 10 really as we have seen countless times. Selections in general have been pretty sloppy so far this season for Glasgow but hopefully it's been a learning curve for Rennie and he'll have a better idea of which combinations work best now.

2 wins against La Rochelle would be a huge boost to the Glasgow confidence though so let's see how they go next weekend with Hastings and Horne well rested.

by **BigGee** Mon 02 Dec 2019, 9:36 am

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/non-selection-thing-was-the-hardest-he-just-said-youre-in-a-competitive-position

Alex Dunbar interview. The situation sounds eerily similar to what is going on with Huw Jones at the moment. It does bring DR man management skills into question!

by tigertattie Mon 02 Dec 2019, 12:15 pm

BigGee wrote:https://www.rugbypass.com/news/non-selection-thing-was-the-hardest-he-just-said-youre-in-a-competitive-position

Alex Dunbar interview. The situation sounds eerily similar to what is going on with Huw Jones at the moment. It does bring DR man management skills into question!

Aye its a bit of head scratcher.

I just do not see what the hype is with Rennie. I see no improvement from Glasgowm in fact they seem to have regressed under him. I really do think that if after the 6Ns Glasgow are still sitting around 4th in their conferance, Wilson will be moved over early and DR put on gardening leave.

Dunbar was the centre first on the team sheet and it was a case of deciding to to play along side him. Jones was the same two seasons ago but DR seems to have broken both of them.

I think the 6Ns could be too soon, but could we really see a centre pairing in the Summer Tour of Dunbar 12 and Jones 13 if thier club coaches pick them and they get a run of games.

For me Hutchinson is the only centre playing with any degree of consitent form (yet hes still not getting a look in from his royal tombola-ness)

by **BigGee** Mon 02 Dec 2019, 12:28 pm

I think if is a bit unfair to say we have gone backwards under DR if you look at ghe whold 3 years.

It is fair to say that we peaked last year though and he has now got a team that has gone past its best. He needs to take some responsibility for that though, as recruitment has been poor over both his seasons here and ghe team has certainly not evolved under his stewardship.

Maybe he was lulled into a fslse impression in that our squad team was winning well when the international players were away and thought more of them might step up.

For whatever reason they hsve not this time around and s general malaise has set in, probably not helped by the uncertainty about his future.

If it csrries on like yhis, then st somd point in the spring, we need to cut our loses.

by Tramptastic Mon 02 Dec 2019, 12:33 pm

BigGee wrote:https://www.rugbypass.com/news/non-selection-thing-was-the-hardest-he-just-said-youre-in-a-competitive-position

Alex Dunbar interview. The situation sounds eerily similar to what is going on with Huw Jones at the moment. It does bring DR man management skills into question!

Ah you beat me to it, posted pretty much the same thing over on the 6N thread!

I can understand Rennie not backing Dunbar if Dunbar was injured all the time but by the sounds of it, Dunbar just wasnt given a chance! And as you say, sounds eerily similar to Huw Jones

To be fair, last season McDowall and Steyn were playing incredibly well together but this season Rennie has persisted with Grigg who is just not the same standard at all. I'd of much rather Rennie kept Dunbar and offloaded Grigg

If you were a prem or French club, who would you much rather sign? A seasoned International class pro who's the, defensively, best centre in Scotland OR bang average Grigg?

by **RDW** Mon 02 Dec 2019, 12:36 pm

I think there's a bit of alternative history being talked about here, as it's worth remembering Dunbar was injured a hell of a lot during this period, and would often come back then get injured again. Yes I'm sure there were period where he was fit and just wasn't getting played, but that was a big part in why he didn't play much for Rennie. In the meantime the likes of Johnson stepped into his injured shoes and took their opportunity.

by **BigGee** Mon 02 Dec 2019, 12:52 pm

Dunbar was pushing 30 and on a big contract and probably not great value for it in truth over that last season in particular.

At the time I was of the opinion that it was probably right to let him go, but now seeing the Jones saga, I am not quite so sure.

by Tramptastic Mon 02 Dec 2019, 1:00 pm

There's no doubting Dunbar had competitors and was a bit of a risk with a history of injuries.

However, Dunbar left/was booted out and has since, apparently, been picked consistently for Brive and he feels like he's playing well. Bennett was also let go by Rennie and has since found form at Edinburgh. Huw Jones was Bennetts replacement at Glasgow and rarely gets picked, he might also be getting a shove.

Compare those 3 centres: Dunbar, Bennett and Jones

Compare some of Rennies preferred centres: P Horne, Johnson and Grigg

... I know which 3 I'd rather have on the books

by **BigGee** Mon 02 Dec 2019, 1:22 pm

To be fair, all 3 of Bennett, Jones and Dunbar have been pretty injury prone.

We have seen a few flashes from Bennett this season, but hard to say he is consistently back at his level of the last WC. Playing in the Edinburgh backline of course, rarely gives him that opportunity.

Johnson was and still is playing well. One of the few Glasgow players to maintain his reputation atm

by tigertattie Mon 02 Dec 2019, 2:48 pm

Of course Glasgow have regressed under Rennie.

This year they have gone backwards. By quite a large amount too. It's alomst like he had one eye on being an international coach all this time and as things were moving forward with Oz, he's completely lost focus with Glasgow.

by Anglobraveheart Mon 02 Dec 2019, 7:39 pm

I feel similar to those who doubt DR. He effectively froze Dunbar out which made no sense 12 months ago, when he'd played in the AI's.
The same tactic, goodness knows why? Appears to be being employed with HJ
DR appears to have favoured Grigg, Horne senior, Gibbons and Wilson without much compromise.
His rotation has beggared belief at times in that he will rotate out the quality players, almost looking for the 2nd and 3rd choices to play themselves into form. He's then picked the 2nd/3rd choicers regularly until the form is dragged out of the quality players.
He also appears to flog the steady internationals. As noted above, his player management and comms seem poor.
Nick Grigg is a plucky little club player, but he is in no way first choice, and barring multiple injuries, should not play international against tier 1 opposition. Ditto Horne senior (who I have a lot of respect for) but he too should not be near the national side, and is not a stand off.
As for back row, we need to bring on the youngsters. Wilson and Gibbons are not the future.
If DR went early, I wouldn't be disappointed. There seems to be disharmony at Scotstoun, and I fear that the team togetherness and spirit will not return until DR has departed.
Something just isn't right.
And to cap it all, can I just ask, "Nick Frisby, really? Why?"

by **RDW** Tue 03 Dec 2019, 8:50 am

Rennie comes across as a really decent bloke who clearly cares for his players, and I'm sure the feelings are reciprocated. I wonder if that has led to things getting a bit too cosy though similar to Townsend at Scotland - who is providing the big stick?

Conversly Cockers has come in and everyone's terrified of him - I feel that's the kind of character Glasgow need. Wilson is just going to be more of the same so maybe they can get an assistant to really put the players on edge.

by tigertattie Tue 03 Dec 2019, 9:19 am

RDW wrote:Rennie comes across as a really decent bloke who clearly cares for his players, and I'm sure the feelings are reciprocated. I wonder if that has led to things getting a bit too cosy though similar to Townsend at Scotland - who is providing the big stick?

Conversly Cockers has come in and everyone's terrified of him - I feel that's the kind of character Glasgow need. Wilson is just going to be more of the same so maybe they can get an assistant to really put the players on edge.

Maybe he is a decent bloke. No idea.

Whats caused this slump for the weeg though? Is it purely down to knowing that DR was in talks (and now going) with the ARU? Was he missing training sessions to fly over to Oz to arrange his contract? Have the players felt he's not 100% focused on Glasgow and he's always had one eye on his move into international coaching? Has DR's lack of focus transferred to the players?

He doesnt stike me as the kind of guy that would do something half hearted intentionally but I can't see any other reason for it.

by **BigGee** Tue 03 Dec 2019, 9:34 am

I imagine Rennie has got a pretty scary side as well. He apparently lambasted the team after the poor loss to Saracens in the euro quarters, calling them a bunch of imposters. That seemed to galvinise them for the rest of the season when they went on the great run that took them to the final.

I don't think it is a lack of commitment either on his part, I am sure that he is putting the work in but the players don't seem to be able to rise to it this time.

That may be because they don't have anything left in the tank to give, the run to the final and for some of them, the WC campaign, seems to have emptied them completely.

Some of his selections don't seem to be helping, in the players seem to be getting frozen out and not getting a fair chance and others seem guaranteed to play, no matter what their form is. No new players have come in to really put any pressure on some of the incumbants either. He has to take responsibility for that, but maybe, knowing that he is moving on and he has know that for some time in all honesty, he does not feel that he should be the one to bring the new players in!

If that is the case, then the sooner Wilson gets in and takes over the reins the better!

by Tattie Scones RRN Tue 03 Dec 2019, 9:56 am

The coach is not the problem here. It wouldn't matter who they got in. Glasgow's issue at the moment is they have too many sh!te players getting regular game time e.g. Wilson, Horne (P) etc. They need to get rid and invest in 2-3 very large and hard forwards and bring some youngsters in. Write this season off and build for next year. Target a CC place but forget the playoffs. Scrap the current CC too as they need to concentrate on that top 6 place instead.

by bsando Tue 03 Dec 2019, 10:05 am

I guess when he was at Chiefs and dropped a player a pretty decent replacement took their place. Upcoming centres in Scotland will see what happened to Bennett, Dunbar and Jones etc and hopefully take heed. You have to be performing and if not performing, working your guts out and never taking your place for granted.

I think Dunbar lost out more from bad luck really, a series of unfortunate injuries and lack of game time hitting at a later stage in his career. If he was desperate for Scotland honours again, sacrificing decent pay in France to stay in Scotland playing in the Super 6 might have been a better call.

by tigertattie Tue 03 Dec 2019, 10:25 am

bsando wrote:I guess when he was at Chiefs and dropped a player a pretty decent replacement took their place. Upcoming centres in Scotland will see what happened to Bennett, Dunbar and Jones etc and hopefully take heed. You have to be performing and if not performing, working your guts out and never taking your place for granted.

I think Dunbar lost out more from bad luck really, a series of unfortunate injuries and lack of game time hitting at a later stage in his career. If he was desperate for Scotland honours again, sacrificing decent pay in France to stay in Scotland playing in the Super 6 might have been a better call.

Nah, you wont get a look in if you are playing in the Super 6. You need to be playing top flight rugby to stand a chance of intenrational honours. If that top flight is in France, a la Gray or Laidlaw, then while a bit more difficult, at least you are playing against a good standard of opposition.

Look at Blair Cowan, he stayed with LI when they went down and he fell off the radar. By no means is he the best 7 that Scotland can call on, but he's not as bad as Luke Hamilton who while playing for Edinburgh did get international caps.

by bsando Tue 03 Dec 2019, 10:57 am

tigertattie wrote:
bsando wrote:I guess when he was at Chiefs and dropped a player a pretty decent replacement took their place. Upcoming centres in Scotland will see what happened to Bennett, Dunbar and Jones etc and hopefully take heed. You have to be performing and if not performing, working your guts out and never taking your place for granted.

I think Dunbar lost out more from bad luck really, a series of unfortunate injuries and lack of game time hitting at a later stage in his career. If he was desperate for Scotland honours again, sacrificing decent pay in France to stay in Scotland playing in the Super 6 might have been a better call.

Nah, you wont get a look in if you are playing in the Super 6. You need to be playing top flight rugby to stand a chance of intenrational honours. If that top flight is in France, a la Gray or Laidlaw, then while a bit more difficult, at least you are playing against a good standard of opposition.

Look at Blair Cowan, he stayed with LI when they went down and he fell off the radar. By no means is he the best 7 that Scotland can call on, but he's not as bad as Luke Hamilton who while playing for Edinburgh did get international caps.

Well I guess we'll see how he gets on at CA Brive. Many good players have watched their international careers disappear in France though so in my opinion he's got a tough battle ahead.

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