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Glasgow and Edinburgh banter thread no. 23 - New season, new thread

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Post by BigGee on Mon 09 Sep 2019, 5:34 pm

First topic message reminder :

Well a new season is probably time to start off a new thread.

2 weeks to the start of the season and both sides with one more pre season game to go. A lot of unknowns this season again, due to the number of players away with Scotland and other countries for the WC.

For Glasgow, can they continue their general excellence that took them on a fantastic end of season run to the Pro 14 Final, where they just fell short. It might be their last campaign under Dave Rennie, so can they go one better?

Edinburgh also have questions to ask, the main one being whether they can ever pass the ball past the FH and how soon before their wingers are likely to go blue from hypothermia? On a more positive note though, they may finally be playing in Mini Murrayfield by autumn 2020. So only one more year to bear playing in the library!

Good luck to both teams for the coming season, though Edinburgh are more likely to need it than Glasgow!

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Post by BigGee on Mon 30 Dec 2019, 1:51 pm

https://twitter.com/WorcsWarriors/status/1211373891106607107


Little Duncy took a nasty headhunter tackle in his game against London Irish on Saturday. The guy who dished it out got a straight red.

Worcester notched up another win with Duncy adding 13 points including a try, his good form continues down south.

Alan Dell made his first start of the season I think and did not distinguish himself either, picking up a yellow for flying into a ruck. Hopefully he will get more starts and settle down a bit, our LH situation means we need him fit and firing.

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Post by funnyExiledScot on Mon 30 Dec 2019, 4:49 pm

The FH cover could be handy. Jackson can obviously play there when Hastings goes off, but I've been fairly impressed by Jackson at 15. I didn't think it would work, but he's done a very respectable job at the back.

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Post by funnyExiledScot on Mon 30 Dec 2019, 4:52 pm

Weir has done really well down south. We have a paucity of options at 10, and his good form is certainly helpful. He's only 28, so has a good 5 or so years left in him - a Scottish Andy Goode!!

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Post by BigGee on Mon 30 Dec 2019, 5:00 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:The FH cover could be handy. Jackson can obviously play there when Hastings goes off, but I've been fairly impressed by Jackson at 15. I didn't think it would work, but he's done a very respectable job at the back.

Jacko has been a solid stand in and does the basics well, but lacks any x factor at this stage in his career. So much of Glasgow's game in recent years has been about counter attacking, particularly from loose kicking. It is just not happening this season, I don't think we have scored a single try BP yet. I think that this may well be Jacko's last season, along with a few others in the Glasgow squad. We supposedly have a few talented youngsters in the academy and at some stage this season, it would surely be worth giving them a chance to see if they may be up to it.

At least the new guy will get the chance to clear the decks and bring some of his own players in. I imagine recruitment is going to largely sit with him from here on in.

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Post by EWT Spoons on Tue 31 Dec 2019, 8:23 am

funnyExiledScot wrote:Weir has done really well down south. We have a paucity of options at 10, and his good form is certainly helpful. He's only 28, so has a good 5 or so years left in him - a Scottish Andy Goode!!

Are you suggesting Weir for Glasgow or Scotland FES?

If Scotland, he's not really needed, as Finn will play every minute for Scotland unless injured and Hastings is the backup option. I appreciate if something happens to either of them there is a gap, but Weir doesn't fit with our style of play. He's also largely been poor to down right awful when playing for Scotland in the past. I appreciate players can improve, but I think he's a decent club player and nothing more.

If Glasgow, then maybe, but he also doesn't suit their current style of play (might change when Rennie moves on), and he's wanted where he is, so why would he come back to a club who already deemed him surplus to requirements.

What this conversation does highlight is that we need another 10 to come through. Jaco qualifies in 2020 (same time as Duhan I think), but it would be good to see a young Scottish lad getting some chances at Edinburgh, but I'm not sure who that would be. Baggott is SQ but he's not really getting a look in, after that, I'm not sure. Same at Glasgow as well i guess, they've got Hastings, but who is coming through behind him?

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Post by RDW on Tue 31 Dec 2019, 8:27 am

VDW came in December as a mid season injury replacement so he won't qualify until 2021 6N.

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Post by EWT Spoons on Tue 31 Dec 2019, 8:58 am

I don't know when he entered the country, but he signed in November and made his debut in November, so there's a chance he will be qualified in time for the NZ game, however he's unlikely to debut against the ABs

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Post by BigGee on Tue 31 Dec 2019, 9:20 am

I would say Weir is very much our third choice atm and is only one injury away from the match day squad.

I would not judge him on his last few years in Scotland or on his performances in a poor Scottish team. He looks a much more rounded and better player now and he would do a job if needed.

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Post by jimbopip on Tue 31 Dec 2019, 9:58 am

Gee, Meatball always looked a well rounded player. Hence the name..

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Post by BigGee on Tue 31 Dec 2019, 10:18 am

jimbopip wrote:Gee, Meatball always looked a well rounded player. Hence the name..

Good job he does have a bit of ballast around him and that he was not a good few inches taller or that Samoan would have decapitated him on Saturday!

Duncy and GL are my wife's two favourite Scottish players, she just loves the little guys and the Italian mother in her would just like to feed them up a bit, all day long.

He would be an even more rounded player if she had her way!

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Post by tigertattie on Tue 31 Dec 2019, 3:08 pm

I rate Meatball.

He played with some utterly herroneous centres (Pete Horne, Nick De Knock-on) and lets not forget he's also had some slow slow ball to work from also from the 9 and pack.

Warriors of the Worcs variety seem to rate him and he's reall steering them in the right direction of the prem table this season.

If Hastings has another case of the Yips come 6Ns time, Meatball could easily be on the bench over him. Even if Hastings is playing well, Wee Duncy wil be in the squad as I think laidlaow was seen as a back up 10 also and that blocker is now gone. Rhubarb could be considered there too but with Hogg and Blairhorn (then Maitland) at 15, I can't see Jackson getting the nod for a squad place.
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Post by jimbopip on Tue 31 Dec 2019, 6:19 pm

Tigertattie, I always rated Wee Duncy. His problem was that he got caught in the dialectic; he was never as steady as Desperate Dan and never as mercurial as as Rhuaridh the Gin Peddler. I just don't think Toonie believes he can play "the fastest rugby in the world" without a Finn/Haircut type at 10. This is the coach who having made that decision chose to play Finn outside Frodo The Ponderous.furious Frodo had many, very many, great qualities but no-one could ever accuse him of rapidity.

I hear a rumour that NoMaits is about to return to Scotstoun, home of the underperforming Once And blah blah. It would make sense; he could finally get to play full-back on a weekly basis.

Finally, I couldn't face food type sustenance till mid afternoon today: so then I microwaved the Turkey Curry leftover from yesterday (yes leftover leftovers) and washed it down with a rather suspect Olde Ale which has been gathering dust from last Chrimbo. What else would you have for breakfast on this day of days?

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Post by tigertattie on Tue 31 Dec 2019, 9:16 pm

Katsu I hope?

With chips?
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Post by funnyExiledScot on Wed 01 Jan 2020, 9:12 am

EWT Spoons wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:Weir has done really well down south. We have a paucity of options at 10, and his good form is certainly helpful. He's only 28, so has a good 5 or so years left in him - a Scottish Andy Goode!!

Are you suggesting Weir for Glasgow or Scotland FES?

All I'm saying is that I've moved from "I never want to see Weir in a Scotland jersey under any circumstances" to "if we lose Russell and Hastings, then Weir could do a job". The change is driven by his very respectable form in the Prem.

When Jaco qualifies, my sense is that he would overtake Weir.

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Post by NeilyBroon on Wed 01 Jan 2020, 10:31 am

Wee duncy plays with a lot of heart and has a surprising turn of pace for someone who looks like he's been compressed from 6 to 5 foot tall. On his current form I'd happily have him in the squad and wouldn't be too worried about him being on the bench. Given our recent performances I think we can't exactly be picky, yes Finn can be sensational but he can be just as meh, if not worse than Duncy on a bad day, Hastings is the same. Our world cup was appalling so we can't really get much worse than that.

If Toonie wants to keep his position I feel he'd be better rolling the dice a bit on older (but still not near retired) players as well as newbies, and that includes taking a chance on meatball, he's had a good few years to mature as a player and I think we're seeing that. Worcester aren't dominated very often anymore and he seems to have a pretty cool head and a good attitude. He's 28, not exactly ancient and arguably at peak flyhalf age.

Same applies to Scott who I think has been playing better than Johnson this season. Not just the 1872 but across the season. Someone mentioned before but he looked in the same form that he did with Gloucester, he deserves a call back, as does Bennett who is at least as good as Harris but with more potential for a wonder play. Again, Scott is 28/29 and Bennett is only past his mid 20s. Not exactly ancient.

This being said I'd still put Hutchinson ahead of Bennett who I'd currently have level with Jones, Russell still first choice and Hastings second etc but if Hastings or Finn have a crap 6Ns, what's the harm in trying Meatball again? This is the year we really have nothing to lose. Toonie's proved that if we try conservative selection tactics based on historical form or "experience" it bites us in the erse. Our pool is far too small to pick at tentatively.
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Post by TheMildlyFranticLlama on Wed 01 Jan 2020, 12:47 pm

Rob Robertson reporting that Jonny Gray is leaving Glasgow this summer!

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Post by NeilyBroon on Wed 01 Jan 2020, 1:04 pm

TheMildlyFranticLlama wrote:Rob Robertson reporting that Jonny Gray is leaving Glasgow this summer!

Can't help but feel a move would be good for him. He needs to develop his game and it's not happening with Glasgow or Scotland. Hopefully it's with a club that will use him well though.
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Post by funnyExiledScot on Wed 01 Jan 2020, 1:47 pm

That's a blow to Glasgow. They need to rebuild in the summer, but Jonny Gray is one of the players I'd have built the pack around, along with Scott Cummings. That's the makings of a very handy and balanced second row.

As noted, hopefully he'll go somewhere good, that will develop him further. He had stalled somewhat, although he still produces consistently high work rate number each game.

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Post by bsando on Wed 01 Jan 2020, 6:05 pm

Marfo signs with Ospreys until end of the season as injury cover. That is a great opportunity for him to vent some frustration at a lack of game time at Edinburgh. I will be watching with interest to see how he gets on.

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Post by BigGee on Wed 01 Jan 2020, 7:38 pm

Not altogether surprising that JG will move on, we probably did well to keep him last time around. I think as FES says, a move might not be a bad thing for him on a personal level as he seems to have plateaued as a player at Glasgow now.

Question is where does this leave Glasgow, that would be our 3rd WC player to leave in three years and they really need to do something to stop the rot on this one. I can just imagine that the warriors forum is in complete melt down just now.

JG is not necessarily the end of the world but some of the money saved on Hoggy, Finn and him needs to be ploughed back into the team and some good news on the signing front would be a good thing. The Naka, will he won't he saga might help that along if it goes the right way. maybe a longer contract than 6 months might sweeten the pill.

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Post by BigGee on Wed 01 Jan 2020, 9:00 pm

BBC saying it is going to be Exeter for JG

Probably not the worst move in the world, some familiar faces and he won't get flogged as badly as at other clubs with their more sympathetic management.

They are rapidly becoming our team to support in the Premiership though!

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Post by RDW on Wed 01 Jan 2020, 9:02 pm

Exeter would be an excellent move - probably the best we could hope for

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Post by tigertattie on Wed 01 Jan 2020, 9:27 pm

Good fit for him as Exeter are old school and build their game around the pack, using them to strangle the opposition to then launch their backs at them when they’ve whacked a few haymakers out.

Blow for Glasgow though.

Dare I say it.

Dare I???

Could Glasgow be looking at a first choice lock pairing next season of Cummings and Naka???
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Post by Tramptastic on Wed 01 Jan 2020, 9:32 pm

I still think the Naka signing will only be to the end of the season, on a reduced pay from his usual fee, will give him time to sort out a contract with another big spending french club.

I reckon Glasgow might be looking at signing Richie Gray who has stated a desire to come home to Scotland with his young family - might GW be losing one Gray but signing another?

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Post by BigGee on Wed 01 Jan 2020, 9:39 pm

The Naka signing, that everyone predicts is going to happen, seems to be taking a long time to be officially announced. Maybe they are negotiating a longer than 6 month contract and that might be slowing things down a bit.

I need a bit of hope to cling to at the moment.

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Post by jimbopip on Wed 01 Jan 2020, 10:50 pm

Tom English also states that Naka is a done deal. Perhaps the deal was dependent on Jonny moving to free up his wages.
Anyhow, we are losing an exceptional lock...and signing an exceptional lock. If Naka is only six months we could still see Richie Gray next season.

Will Jonny front up against Exeter in two weeks time?

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Post by funnyExiledScot on Wed 01 Jan 2020, 11:49 pm

RDW wrote:Exeter would be an excellent move - probably the best we could hope for

Absolutely. Right at the top of my wish list. Baxter knows how to produce great forwards.

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Post by funnyExiledScot on Wed 01 Jan 2020, 11:53 pm

Naka could have a few years left in him if managed well. Hopefully Glasgow can convince him to sign longer term.

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Post by bsando on Thu 02 Jan 2020, 8:29 am

JG to Exeter packing down beside Skinner will be excellent for Scotland. Skinner is arguably second choice lock after JG at moment despite GG playing a lot of rugby in 2019. A good signing for Exeter and a good move for Gray, Glasgow will miss him though.

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Post by RDW on Thu 02 Jan 2020, 8:47 am

Judging by Glasgow's social media it looks like nakarawa is about to be announced.

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Post by RDW on Thu 02 Jan 2020, 8:50 am

https://www.glasgowwarriors.org/news/nakarawa-set-for-scotstoun-return

He's back!

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Post by BigGee on Thu 02 Jan 2020, 9:08 am

Well some good news at last, maybe if he settles, he may stay longer.

I wonder what kind of shape he is in, not having played for a good while? To be honest though, it is during the 6N window that we are going to be needing him the most, so we can spend a few weeks getting him up to speed.

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Post by tigertattie on Thu 02 Jan 2020, 9:12 am

RDW wrote:https://www.glasgowwarriors.org/news/nakarawa-set-for-scotstoun-return

He's back!

Subject to medical and visa

FES will tell you to remember the small print.

Visa shouldnt be an issue with him being from a commonwealth country, but who knows with Old Nigel Farage still knocking about, anything is possible.
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Post by RDW on Thu 02 Jan 2020, 9:12 am

As I said previously I can't imagine he'll be in good shape. Even of he has been doing his own training in Fiji there's a huge difference between that and full-time professional conditioning needed for Pro rugby.

As you say it's a month until the 6N so he's got time to get up to speed. He should be flying for the end of season run in.

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Post by BigGee on Thu 02 Jan 2020, 9:27 am


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Post by BigGee on Thu 02 Jan 2020, 9:37 am

Interesting that leone is arriving in Glasgow today, so the deal was clearly done a good while ago, probably before xmas. It is a shame that the JG story leaked out before it was announced which has actually meant it is not quite the triumph that it might have been.

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Post by tigertattie on Thu 02 Jan 2020, 11:03 am

Here. No one has thought about what this could mean for Sam Skinner. Could he be looking at moving to 6 for Exeter or could he be looking at a bench spot, or moving on???
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Post by BigGee on Thu 02 Jan 2020, 11:35 am

tigertattie wrote:Here. No one has thought about what this could mean for Sam Skinner. Could he be looking at moving to 6 for Exeter or could he be looking at a bench spot, or moving on???

He plays 6 for them as often as he plays second row already.

I'd be surprised if they wanted to move him on, he is young will be a part of their team going forward. There are others in the Exeter pack who are a bit longer in the tooth. They need a full squad if they are to compete with the big boys.

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Post by BigGee on Thu 02 Jan 2020, 11:40 am

Apparently Nick Grigg is also in danger of moving on at the end of this season, Wasps and La Rochelle amongst others who fancy him.

To be honest, much as I like NG as a player, someone who is fully comitted and will be a great club player for whoever he goes to, it would not be the end of the world. We have two other good 13s Jones and Steyn, both younger and probably better.

I imagine he would get a good payrise at one of those clubs and if it is on offer, then he should take it.

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Post by funnyExiledScot on Thu 02 Jan 2020, 1:31 pm

Agreed on Grigg. Nothing wrong with his commitment, but he sits behind Jones and Steyn, and I'm sure the Weegies can find a young cheaper Scot to develop as 3rd choice.

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Post by tigertattie on Thu 02 Jan 2020, 1:46 pm

Grigg will be a good find for a club

He's an internationalist now but realistically wont be plaing that many international games going forward so will be avilable to the club a good bit.
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Post by BigGee on Thu 02 Jan 2020, 4:05 pm

Rory Hughes heading down to Leceister for the rest of the season on loan. I am not very confident that we will be seeing him back again for next season.

I think this is the begining of the clear out.

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Post by RDW on Thu 02 Jan 2020, 4:25 pm

Looking at the pictures of Leone arriving in Glasgow he certainly looks like he's been enjoying his time in Fiji!

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Post by BigGee on Thu 02 Jan 2020, 4:30 pm

Yes i though the same, he is going to be in his own peivate hell once the conditionets get hold of him!

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Post by tigertattie on Thu 02 Jan 2020, 11:20 pm

What is going on at Glasgow?

All these players legging it.

If they don’t stem this flow of players exiting stage left they could be in a spot of bother.

I know they need to rebuild but to use the old business adage, it’s about evolution no revolution.

If Glasgow are going to go on a rebuilding exercise and look to bring through a raft of youth players then I hope the warrior nation are prepared for the long haul as Glasgow could be looking at almost starting again from scratch.

I suppose where there is risk there is possible reward
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Post by bsando on Fri 03 Jan 2020, 8:52 am

I think there will be a bunch of new signings for next season. I saw somewhere Glasgow had missed out on signing a decent SA flanker they had been tracking for a while, so they're probably working hard behind the scenes to secure some decent players for 2020-2021.

It would be nice to see some younger players stepping up and evolving like you say Tattie. I remember seeing Dunbar turn out for Glasgow for the first time and what an impact he had. Younger players are not stepping up when given a chance as seen by the results this year so far. It seems inevitable that Warriors will miss out on playoffs this season and won't qualify out of their European group. A shame, but hopefully jut a blip for Warriors and not a deeper rooted problem.

Immediate problems for 2020-2021 seem to be the lack of an outright FB, a better backup 10, a JG replacement Lock, a big ball carrying no.8, a decent BR poacher and probably a better winger.

Also, the 2nd leg of the 1872 cup was a contrast of youth vs a slightly ageing squad. Graham and DVDM vs DTH and Tagive, Kinghorn vs Jackson, Ritchie vs Harley, Watson vs Gibbins and Wilson. Edinburgh have all the up and coming players at the moment aside from perhaps Jamie Dobie, Cummings and McDowall (who has been a bit flat this season).

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Post by BigGee on Fri 03 Jan 2020, 9:14 am

One small boost for Glasgow in their upcoming match against Exeter. Harry Williams their England TH, got a two week ban for his part in the punch up Exeter had against Sarries, for running in off the bench and getting involved.

Not the brightest of moves, even for a prop and so he will miss out.

No complaints from us, we need all the help we can get!

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Post by EWT Spoons on Fri 03 Jan 2020, 9:15 am

I wonder if this (in theory) Glasgow clear out is part of Glasgow trying to rebalance the squad. According to Kevin Millar (does a lot of Scottish rugby stats etc on twitter, worth a follow) Glasgow have 9 full time players more than Edinburgh. Maybe they over stretched themselves for during the WC/Pro14 challenge, and now need to have a bit of cull to balance the books.

Could be way off, and Edinburgh are just operating with a much smaller squad due to preference, but there is a lot of players leaving Glasgow and not a lot of replacements coming in (so far at least).

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Post by BigGee on Fri 03 Jan 2020, 9:33 am

I think a squad re-balancing is required by Glasgow and is part of what we are beginning to see.

Our squad has historically been larger as we have been contributing a lot more players to Scotland for many years now. That should be less of an issue now that Edinburgh have improved and more of our top players are choosing to move away from Scotland to play.

It is not just purely in terms of numbers that we are imbalanced at Glasgow, we are also overstocked in certain positions, such as centre, hooker and as Dobie emerges scrum half. This means that good players are not getting the game time they need. There are several players kicking around the Glasgow squad that are really not playing at all. Players like Hughes, Kelly, Smith, Nairn. I don't suppose any of them are on big money but it does all add up.

I would be happy for a slightly leaner squad, with maybe the chance for some academy or Super 6 players to step up and fill the gaps. Dobie aside, no youngsters are getting their chance this season. We keep getting told that McLean, Smith, Skyes and Davidson are all prospects, well give them an opportunity then.

Getting involved in a dogfight for a playoff place is not helping their cause I guess and maybe it will change during this 6N window or if and when we can't make the playoffs.

I can see why players like Grigg might be looking to move though and why we are allowing others like Hughes to go off and try their luck elsewhere.

A slightly smaller but higher quality squad is likely where we need to be heading going into the Wilson era. I don't have a huge issue with going away from a big name coach either. There has been speculation about Rennie's future ever since he has been with us and that has probably told in the end, both on him and the players. He was never going to be a long term appointment, we knew that right from the beginning.

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Post by BigGee on Fri 03 Jan 2020, 10:42 am

https://www.scottishrugby.org/news/six-nations-u20-training-squad-announced

Scotland u20 squad for this years 6N

Notable absentee is Jamie Dobie, who it seems is being full on integrated into the pro game and with talk of him heading off on the summer tour with the full squad. Expect to see more of him in a Glasgow shirt this 6N period when price and Horne will be away.

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