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England's Winter

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Post by LondonTiger on Mon 16 Sep 2019, 2:22 pm

First topic message reminder :

New Zealand

T20 Internationals

Friday November 1st - Christchurch
Sunday November 3rd - Wellington
Tuesday November 5th - Nelson
Friday November 8th - Napier
Sunday November 10th - Auckland

Squad
Eoin Morgan (Middlesex) captain
Jonny Bairstow (Yorkshire)
Tom Banton (Somerset)
Sam Billings (Kent)
Pat Brown (Worcestershire)
Sam Curran (Surrey)
Tom Curran (Surrey)
Joe Denly (Kent)
Lewis Gregory (Somerset)
Chris Jordan (Sussex)
Saqib Mahmood (Lancashire)
Dawid Malan (Middlesex)
Matt Parkinson (Lancashire)
Adil Rashid (Yorkshire)
James Vince (Hampshire)


Tests

Wednesday November 20th - Tauranga
Thursday November 28th - Hamilton

Squad
Joe Root (Yorkshire) captain
Jofra Archer (Sussex)
Stuart Broad (Nottinghamshire)
Rory Burns (Surrey)
Jos Buttler (Lancashire)
Zak Crawley (Kent)
Sam Curran (Surrey)
Joe Denly (Kent)
Jack Leach (Somerset)
Saqib Mahmood (Lancashire)
Matthew Parkinson (Lancashire)
Ollie Pope (Surrey)
Dominic Sibley (Warwickshire)
Ben Stokes (Durham)
Chris Woakes (Warwickshire)



South Africa

Tests

Thursday 26th December - Centurion
Friday January 3rd - Cape Town
Thursday January 16th - Port Elizabeth
Friday January 24th - Johannesburg

Squad
TBC


ODI
Tuesday 4th February - Cape Town
Friday 7th February - Durban
Sunday 9th February - Johannesburg

Squad
TBC



T20 Internationals

Wednesday 12th February - East London
Friday 14th February - Durban
Sunday 16th February - Centurion


Sri Lanka

March 7th - Warm up 1, Katunayake (3 day)
March 12th - Warm up 2, Colombo (3 day)
March 19th - 1st Test, Galle
March 27th - 2nd Test, Colombo


Last edited by LondonTiger on Tue 03 Dec 2019, 9:15 am; edited 2 times in total

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Post by jimbohammers on Mon 28 Oct 2019, 4:41 pm

Billings as vice captain.. My word, talk about 'jobs for the boys' , not sure how get constantly gets selected for England.
Great to see Pat Brown getting a chance, also interesting to see how Parkinson goes


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Post by LondonTiger on Tue 29 Oct 2019, 6:32 am

Well after setting what looks like a decent target England are well and truly mashed. CurranT only bowler to go at a reasonable RR.

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Post by Gooseberry on Tue 29 Oct 2019, 9:22 am

Its so far from a first choice side as to make these games almost pointless. They may as well have badged this as a Lions tour. NZ fans should feel a bit short changed.

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Post by LondonTiger on Tue 29 Oct 2019, 9:33 am

Gooseberry wrote:Its so far from a first choice side as to make these games almost pointless. They may as well have badged this as a Lions tour. NZ fans should feel a bit short changed.

Yeah, this is largely designed to be a talent spotting exercise - only problem so far being that it is established players who have come to the fore in these warm ups.

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Post by Duty281 on Tue 29 Oct 2019, 11:17 am

Dearest England, stop using Denly as a bowler.

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Post by JDizzle on Tue 29 Oct 2019, 12:26 pm

Perfect knock from Gregory, that is the role he has to make his own this series. Just please don’t bowl him!

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Post by Gooseberry on Tue 29 Oct 2019, 3:54 pm

LondonTiger wrote:
Gooseberry wrote:Its so far from a first choice side as to make these games almost pointless. They may as well have badged this as a Lions tour. NZ fans should feel a bit short changed.

Yeah, this is largely designed to be a talent spotting exercise - only problem so far being that it is established players who have come to the fore in these warm ups.

Which woiuld be fine if they were using players who talents needed spotting, but  Denly Vince an Billings we already know are England B team players at best

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Post by king_carlos on Tue 29 Oct 2019, 4:06 pm

Duty281 wrote:Dearest England, stop using Denly as a bowler.
Hopefully in the T20is we will see Rashid and Parkinson used in tandem. They could be a dangerous partnership.

1.Bairstow
2.Banton
3.Malan
4.Morgan (c)
5.Denly
6.Billings (wk)
7.Gregory or S Curran
8.T Curran or Jordan
9.Rashid
10.Mahmood or Brown
11.Parkinson

I hope we see a rough order such as that. Gregory or Sam used as the finisher at 7. Parkinson and Rashid given time bowling as a partnership.

It's a big series for Morgan in many ways. In the last 2 years leading up the World Cup he hasn't played a huge amount of T20 cricket outside the blast. Plus he is captaining a side without most its stars. Big series for the skipper.

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Post by Gooseberry on Wed 30 Oct 2019, 3:57 pm

king_carlos wrote:
Duty281 wrote:Dearest England, stop using Denly as a bowler.
Hopefully in the T20is we will see Rashid and Parkinson used in tandem. They could be a dangerous partnership.

1.Bairstow
2.Banton
3.Malan
4.Morgan (c)
5.Denly
6.Billings (wk)
7.Gregory or S Curran
8.T Curran or Jordan
9.Rashid
10.Mahmood or Brown
11.Parkinson

I hope we see a rough order such as that. Gregory or Sam used as the finisher at 7. Parkinson and Rashid given time bowling as a partnership.

It's a big series for Morgan in many ways. In the last 2 years leading up the World Cup he hasn't played a huge amount of T20 cricket outside the blast. Plus he is captaining a side without most its stars. Big series for the skipper.


He hasnt but not many of what youd expect to be the core side have, and he did show he can still hit at the required rate against Afghanistan! 
Of the senior batsmen its really Root whos place is questionable, he even said so himself not long back. 

I really dont see the T20 side form being massively different in makeup from the 50 over world cup one currently. Theres definitely a chance for another spinner to step in, and a seamer for Plunkett (T Curran  and Jordan being the lead contenders)  but its hard to imagine Bairstow, Roy, Morgan Buttler, Stokes, Rashid, Archer not being in a first XI and Root, Woakes and Mo will all be well in the mix. Theres a fair few games to be played between now and the world cup, hopefuly some of them with something much more like a first choice squad.

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Post by king_carlos on Wed 30 Oct 2019, 5:12 pm

Gooseberry wrote:
king_carlos wrote:
Duty281 wrote:Dearest England, stop using Denly as a bowler.
Hopefully in the T20is we will see Rashid and Parkinson used in tandem. They could be a dangerous partnership.

1.Bairstow
2.Banton
3.Malan
4.Morgan (c)
5.Denly
6.Billings (wk)
7.Gregory or S Curran
8.T Curran or Jordan
9.Rashid
10.Mahmood or Brown
11.Parkinson

I hope we see a rough order such as that. Gregory or Sam used as the finisher at 7. Parkinson and Rashid given time bowling as a partnership.

It's a big series for Morgan in many ways. In the last 2 years leading up the World Cup he hasn't played a huge amount of T20 cricket outside the blast. Plus he is captaining a side without most its stars. Big series for the skipper.


He hasnt but not many of what youd expect to be the core side have, and he did show he can still hit at the required rate against Afghanistan! 
Of the senior batsmen its really Root whos place is questionable, he even said so himself not long back. 

I really dont see the T20 side form being massively different in makeup from the 50 over world cup one currently. Theres definitely a chance for another spinner to step in, and a seamer for Plunkett (T Curran  and Jordan being the lead contenders)  but its hard to imagine Bairstow, Roy, Morgan Buttler, Stokes, Rashid, Archer not being in a first XI and Root, Woakes and Mo will all be well in the mix. Theres a fair few games to be played between now and the world cup, hopefuly some of them with something much more like a first choice squad.
Agreed on all that. Root has played very little T20 cricket in reality. It will take something special from Banton, Billings, Malan or Vince to steal a march on the established batsman though.

Mo's T20 performances for Worcester were stupendous after being dropped from the Test side. His overall record in T20 makes very nice viewing as well.

Parkinson should have a good shot as a wicket taker in the middle overs. Especially with England's attacking nature in shorter forms.

Tymal Mills is the potential wild card for the World Cup offering his pace and left-arm angle.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Thu 31 Oct 2019, 10:19 am

Denly has suffered a training injury, which likely means the XI will be

1. Bairstow
2. Banton
3. Malan/Vince
4. Morgan (c)
5. Billings (wk)
6. Gregory
7. S Curran
8. T Curran or Jordan
9. Rashid
10. Brown
11. Parkinson

Been reported Brown will make his debut - so imagine Mahmood misses out. Denly's injury probably means you can play Gregory and Sam Curran.

Wonder if we might see only one of Parkinson and Rashid, with both Tom Curran and Jordan playing. Probably the only selection decision left now
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Post by Gooseberry on Thu 31 Oct 2019, 10:25 am

That's a horribly short batting line up

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Post by jimbohammers on Thu 31 Oct 2019, 6:19 pm

Is it? For a 20 over game? Seems to be enough there for me. Personally see Sam Curran as a batsman who can bowl a bit now.

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Post by JDizzle on Thu 31 Oct 2019, 9:38 pm

I don't think Banton is playing is he? Otherwise they would have announced he was making his debut along with Curran and Brown. Guess him or Gregory makes it now Denly is injured though.

Bairstow
Malan
Vince
Morgan
Billings
Banton/Gregory (Would have been Denly)
SCurran
TCurran
Jordan
Rashid
Brown

That'd be my guess. Same logic on Parkinson as Banton, unless they are waiting to see the pitch before making a final call. Bairstow scored 104 off 60 at the Hagley Oval in 2018, so guessing it is one of the grounds with baby boundaries so two leggies might be bold.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri 01 Nov 2019, 4:09 am

Hopefully they don’t make Gregory pay his match fees for that Smile

Solid performance otherwise. All the bowlers did a nice job and a solid batting performance, comfortable win to start the series.
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Post by Gooseberry on Fri 01 Nov 2019, 7:28 am

Having a player listed as batting at 7 who doesnt get to bowl.....hmmm

Notable that the two bowlers who stood out were the two already established in the squad, and the runs came from the senior bats too. Only really Vince you can say enhanced his position, but frankly I just dont see him as a player who would improve Englands first choice XI over someone like Root.
Its players like Banton we need to see stepping up and showing the potential to be special and improve Englands squad options.
A comfortbale win from the B team but not much gained from what feels like a rather pointless series despite the world cup being less than a year away.

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Post by Soul Requiem on Fri 01 Nov 2019, 7:54 am

jimbohammers wrote:Is it? For a 20 over game? Seems to be enough there for me. Personally see Sam Curran as a batsman who can bowl a bit now.

Yet still hasn't scored a century in any form of the game.

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Post by Gooseberry on Fri 01 Nov 2019, 8:17 am

Soul Requiem wrote:
jimbohammers wrote:Is it? For a 20 over game? Seems to be enough there for me. Personally see Sam Curran as a batsman who can bowl a bit now.

Yet still hasn't scored a century in any form of the game.

Id also add that Billings isnt top 5 material for me. Thats what prompted the short comment as much as the two bowlers at 6/7. Add to that Bantons hardly convincing as an opener and Vince has a poor track record internationally on paper, it was a really weak batting line up for a team that has such strength there usually. 

The first choice side would have Stokes Buttler as 5 6. I'd buy Gregory or Curran at 7 if either of them were good enough to bowl 4 overs at the top level, but nothing in their careers to date suggests they are good enough for that. Picking one was pushing it, both makes its a miracle England won so comfortably IMO and took a career best score from Vince, that was his first 50 in T20s and hes only got one in ODIS too. 

Its not bad to have those players available if their are injuries (or arrests) to key players like Stokes, but they shouldn't be batting number 6 for England as a regular thing in any format.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri 01 Nov 2019, 8:30 am

Gooseberry wrote:Having a player listed as batting at 7 who doesnt get to bowl.....hmmm

Notable that the two bowlers who stood out were the two already established in the squad, and the runs came from the senior bats too. Only really Vince you can say enhanced his position, but frankly I just dont see him as a player who would improve Englands first choice XI over someone like Root.
Its players like Banton we need to see stepping up and showing the potential to be special and improve Englands squad options.
A comfortbale win from the B team but not much gained from what feels like a rather pointless series despite the world cup being less than a year away.

Wouldn't really call this a pointless series - this is a chance for a lot of outsiders to make a real case for slots in the squad for the World Cup, and we've seen both in cricket and rugby how crucial the backups can be in a relatively long tournament.

I'd suggest we know what the best XI likely is (and I'd say it looks pretty strong myself); Roy, Bairstow, Buttler, Root, Morgan, Stokes, Ali, Woakes, Jordan, Archer, Rashid - but finding out who will be our backup bats (likely only two of Vince/Malan/Banton/Billings makes it?), backup all rounder (likely one of Gregory/Sam Curran/Tom Curran) and then if guys like Mahmood/Brown/Parkinson are worth taking as backups, or can maybe even challenge a Woakes/Rashid who've struggled with injury is important.

Thought Brown looked good, and being given the final over shows they already have some confidence in him. The Currans bowled nicely up top too, and Jordan has really turned into an excellent T20 performer.
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Post by guildfordbat on Fri 01 Nov 2019, 9:57 am

Recorded the game and just watched it all now (without knowing what happened). A good and efficient England performance.

For his handling of the bowlers - and their consistent contribution was key - and his own runs, I would have narrowly given the MotM to Morgan over Vince. No real issues though with JimboH's man getting the award - he gets a lot of stick and deserves a day in the sun.

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Post by Gooseberry on Fri 01 Nov 2019, 11:38 am

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:
Gooseberry wrote:Having a player listed as batting at 7 who doesnt get to bowl.....hmmm

Notable that the two bowlers who stood out were the two already established in the squad, and the runs came from the senior bats too. Only really Vince you can say enhanced his position, but frankly I just dont see him as a player who would improve Englands first choice XI over someone like Root.
Its players like Banton we need to see stepping up and showing the potential to be special and improve Englands squad options.
A comfortbale win from the B team but not much gained from what feels like a rather pointless series despite the world cup being less than a year away.

Wouldn't really call this a pointless series - this is a chance for a lot of outsiders to make a real case for slots in the squad for the World Cup, and we've seen both in cricket and rugby how crucial the backups can be in a relatively long tournament.

I'd suggest we know what the best XI likely is (and I'd say it looks pretty strong myself); Roy, Bairstow, Buttler, Root, Morgan, Stokes, Ali, Woakes, Jordan, Archer, Rashid - but finding out who will be our backup bats (likely only two of Vince/Malan/Banton/Billings makes it?), backup all rounder (likely one of Gregory/Sam Curran/Tom Curran) and then if guys like Mahmood/Brown/Parkinson are worth taking as backups, or can maybe even challenge a Woakes/Rashid who've struggled with injury is important.

Thought Brown looked good, and being given the final over shows they already have some confidence in him. The Currans bowled nicely up top too, and Jordan has really turned into an excellent T20 performer.


I suppose it just feels like this is a bit of a phoney war, and for me (as Ive mentioned previously several times) they maybe havent got the right fringe candidates here, and it might've been better as a proper Lions fixture. I guess there is value for the players in terms of getting used to flying to this side of the world and conditions and climate arent a mile off those in Aus. 

Don't disagree fundamentally with your first XI but Id say Tom Curran pushes Jordan hard for a first choice spot and would be in as back up seamer rather than all rounder. It might be only one spare batsman that makes it (you missed Denly off the list although again I go back to my "wrong fringe candidates" comment) as per the 50 over squad to allow for the third spinner in the squad or an additional seamer. 

As it stands now my 15 would be the XI you posted, TCurran (the new Plunkett), Malan (the new Hales), Sam Curran (the new Willey...wow), and a tin of custard (knowing England they will cycle through 20 fringe players over the coming series then pick Dawson to carry drinks as per the last two ICC world cups!). Plenty of time for people to stick hands up (not outside nightclubs please). Id love to see Hales find his form again and earn back the trust of England, but it felt like the problem became a genuine rift there and even if hes back to is best England wont be rushing to have him back as they were with Stokes. 

Just checked the squad from 2016 and Bairstow wasnt in it but Reece Topley was. Looking back at his record in the format its not as surprising as it seems now, its only after that he really put in some good performances and over all his international average is pretty poor. But given just how much hes grown as an ODI bat and his stint in the last IPL he looks to be an absolute no brainer pick. Which leaves England with two keepers who deserve to be in ahead of Billings...yet still we keep flogging that horse and make him vice captain off the back of one innings in the windies.

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Post by Jetty on Sat 02 Nov 2019, 2:41 am

Woakes hasn't played T20s for England for 4 years. Jordan not played ODIs for 3 years. They decided Woakes for ODIs and Jordan for T20s.

Archer Wood Jordan Rashid, I think are definites

Would like to see Rashid and Parkinson bowling together rather than Denly as the 2nd spinner. Warm up games 5-0-60-0.

Denly now injured and misses out on the rest of the T20s. Bairstow and Vince will be hoping to get a chance in the Tests if Denly hasn't recovered even though it's a different format.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sat 02 Nov 2019, 9:02 am

Ankle ligament damage for Denly - doesn’t sound hugely promising for the tests!

Looks like we might get to see both Crawley and Sibley after all
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Post by JDizzle on Sun 03 Nov 2019, 1:50 am

As I was saying, don’t let Gregory bowl! CDG out first ball...

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Post by Gooseberry on Sun 03 Nov 2019, 8:00 am

Jordan very much stepped up but otherwise a bit of a pasting for England. Very little from the new boys again sadly

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sun 03 Nov 2019, 8:58 am

Not many cricket matches are gonna be won when you drop 5 catches in 20 overs. Abysmal fielding performance by england
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Post by JDizzle on Sun 03 Nov 2019, 12:31 pm

Some seriously brain dead batting from England too. Tiny square boundaries and England had 4 (?) batsmen I think caught at long off or long on. Whereas there was one Brown over where CDG was just plinking him 2 yards over the tiny square boundaries! Not easy grounds for young bowlers to make their debuts, just wish England’s batting was a bit smarter.

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Post by guildfordbat on Sun 03 Nov 2019, 1:42 pm

Very sloppy from England. Poor in thought and play.

I know some of you guys are supportive of Brown - and tbf you've probably seen more of him than me - but I'm going to take some convincing that he'll shine at international level. At domestic level, he's done well with his variations against county batsmen but I'm fearful his lack of pace will let him down against stronger opponents. He needs to have a standard delivery to hang his variations on and I'm not sure what he does have currently is good or threatening enough.

The short square boundaries today didn't help Brown but he didn't help himself either by apparently not giving any thought to that!

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Post by JDizzle on Sun 03 Nov 2019, 2:17 pm

There is some local bias in me hoping Brown does well, as I do have a soft spot for Worcs. But if you look at the elite T20 seamers, Archer, Bumrah, Starc, Rabada etc. there is not much guile there! They just have the raw pace to trouble batsman and execute their yorkers well.

Tye is probably the guy most similar to Brown, and if that is the best careers he can have... it’s not a massively high ceiling.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Mon 04 Nov 2019, 11:52 pm

Sounds like Banton and Parkinson to make their debuts tonight - proper ground this, possibly the most stunning in NZ in terms of backdrop.

Probably not going to make much of it, so hope they catch today!
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Tue 05 Nov 2019, 7:17 am

Fair to say Mahmood’s first two games could’ve gone better - not really sure why Parkinson only got 2 overs but he got 4...and he’s only hitting around 135kph - which isn’t the pace he was advertised as really bowling.

Sam Curran bowled nicely again - he’s having a good series with the ball.
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Post by JDizzle on Tue 05 Nov 2019, 8:11 am

Saqib was hitting 140 in the first game he bowled iirc. Not watched the bowling from last night yet. Apparently there was a strong wind so comms reckoned England might have only wanted to bowl Parkinson from one end and just ran out of time.

Banton only got 18, but he looked the business. Picked a 147kph Ferguson ball up for a big six over mid wicket off the front foot which is always lovely to see - especially off a guy that quick. Got out scooping in the end, which you can’t kill him for as it is his shot... But he might not have needed to do it in the PP when there are plenty of gaps over the top anyway.

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Post by Gooseberry on Tue 05 Nov 2019, 8:32 am

Bantons scored just 35 runs out of three innings on this tour so far, he needs to do a bit more than look the business to change that talent into a place in the squad. Competing with Roy and Bairstow for an openers spot is a tough act. 

Both Vince (who KP laughed at for getting picked ahead of Luke Wright in 2015!) and Malan are doing a lot more to put their hands up for spare batsmen places. Malan might even pressure Roots spot, off his 8 T20i's hes now averaging 44 at 146 which is better than any of the other England bats by a margin albeit off a small number of games. 

Cant speak on the quality of his bowling but Currans figures with the ball are no more than decent on the tour, and his only success with the bat (28 n/o) came in a warm up. neither he nor Gregory are looking like genuine Stokes understudies or specialist finishers or first choice bowlers. I guess he probably will make the squad all the same because they will want a left arm option, and theres time for him to improve in the format.

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Post by JDizzle on Tue 05 Nov 2019, 9:58 am

Banton has played one proper T20 though? Course he needs some runs, but looking at home at international level and against 145+ bowling is something lots of England batsman have struggled with recently! The warm up games are an irrelevance really.

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Post by Duty281 on Tue 05 Nov 2019, 10:06 am

It was a very bright start by Banton, good to see.

Anyway I went to sleep with victory assured and woke up with defeat confirmed. Ah well. Roll on the tests, not these silly T20s.

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Post by Afro on Tue 05 Nov 2019, 11:10 am

Gooseberry wrote:Bantons scored just 35 runs out of three innings on this tour so far, he needs to do a bit more than look the business to change that talent into a place in the squad. Competing with Roy and Bairstow for an openers spot is a tough act. 


Banton is only 20, off his first proper season as an established regular for Somerset and they are building up for the World Cup next October. It isn't necessarily about the runs he scores in these first few games. Its about bringing him into the fold and seeing how he looks (on and off the field) and whether he fits with what they want, over a long period
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Post by Gooseberry on Tue 05 Nov 2019, 12:50 pm

In terms of being able to get a world cup squad spot then scoring some runs with his country would be a requisite youd think 20 or not.
Theres only 11 matches left scheduled before the cup starts, and the last series of 3 youd think would be played as warm ups by players already selected.
The remaining two fixtures of this series are pretty important for the kids if they are going to get into the mix, there wont be many other opportunities come their way when the more established players start coming back in.
It's absolutely because they are building for a world cup in only 11 months time that players need to be doing more now than just showing they can turn up for breakfast and pay attention in meetings ( KP).
I guess I am a bit spoiled by England playing 4 years with a 50 over side that barely changed and kept winning in the build up to that world cup, but it does feel to me like the debutants ( aside from curran) needed to be producing the goods if they are going to get in the world cup mix rather than being shelved for a year.
If the bowling that got Banton really was that fearsome then that just makes Malans contribution all the more impressive.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Tue 05 Nov 2019, 1:34 pm

A piece of news re: Banton for Somerset fans amongst us - sounds like he's going to pickup an IPL deal this next season
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Post by Afro on Tue 05 Nov 2019, 1:48 pm

I heard the other day that MI and CSK had both enquired after him. Not surprised. He has a bit of Jos about him, in that he hits 360 degrees and seems to do it effortlessly at times.

Also at the BBL with Heat, so might be able to learn a few tricks from ABdV
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Post by JDizzle on Tue 05 Nov 2019, 1:55 pm

Contracts in the BBL and interest from the IPL? But Goose said we should bin him off cause he only scored 18 in his first T20 International. Wink

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Post by Afro on Tue 05 Nov 2019, 2:00 pm

I'd be happy if he didn't have the contracts with IPL and BBL, nor that he played for England.

The more time spent at Somerset the better as far as I am concerned
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Post by Gooseberry on Tue 05 Nov 2019, 2:34 pm

JDizzle wrote:Contracts in the BBL and interest from the IPL? But Goose said we should bin him off cause he only scored 18 in his first T20 International. Wink

I didnt say he should be binned off, just needs to actually perform to get into the squad when everyones available. As for IPL contracts being the mark of top class England star Billings has played in the last 4 and even Harry Gurney got a contract last year. He may well turn out to be a star but the competition for batting spots will be incredibly tight, and Malans making a good case for himself in an England shirt.

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Tue 05 Nov 2019, 3:20 pm

Goose is actually arguing very fairly. If it was about looking good before getting out for poor scores then James Vince would be test number one. He's just starting, no one is writing him off, but the point is that there's some real competition up there and he isn't going to be able to cement a place on potential

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Post by Afro on Tue 05 Nov 2019, 3:25 pm

I'm not arguing with Goose. I think he is right, but it is too early to judge and also that it is more than about the first few scores. Its whether he learns from them.

Buttler's first 6 T20i innings were 13, 3, 7, 7, 0*, 6, and his first 6 ODI scores 0, 14, 21, 3, 14, 2.

But he showed enough of what he could do, and that he was learning in those games that they stuck with him. You can't learn without playing the games
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Post by JDizzle on Tue 05 Nov 2019, 3:42 pm

I just think it’s a pointless argument to have when he’s played one T20I for England. He’s a player who could play certainly two formats for years to come and who looked at ease playing 90+ bowling. Maybe it is just me, but my initial reaction to seeing someone come in on debut and play a few of shots he did isn’t ‘well, he needs some runs’ after one innings! He might not make the WT20 squad, but there was flashes of huge potential.

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Post by Pal Joey on Tue 05 Nov 2019, 10:01 pm

Yes, he definitely looked very comfortable out there yesterday. If only he didn't try to play that silly shot (at that moment). We should have been seeing a 2-1 England lead now. They were killing it up until Morgan got out.
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Post by guildfordbat on Wed 06 Nov 2019, 12:26 am

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Sounds like Banton and Parkinson to make their debuts tonight - proper ground this, possibly the most stunning in NZ in terms of backdrop.

Probably not going to make much of it, so hope they catch today!

Yes, for sure - absolutly stunning setting. My wife and I went on an organised tour of NZ last year and spent one day a few miles from Nelson. I'd already fallen in love with the ground having seen it on tv and planned to visit there even though no cricket was on. Sadly, torrential rain and floods that day and the night before put the mockers on that! Rolling Eyes Sad I can't recommend NZ highly enough - wonderful country and people.

Better in the field from England today - Tom Curran's catch was excellent - and just about ok with the ball although a few too many wides and no balls. However, our batting looked as if it was always going to be light and so it proved.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Thu 07 Nov 2019, 11:14 pm

So Bairstow’s needed break from test cricket lasted long
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Post by LondonTiger on Fri 08 Nov 2019, 6:51 am

Dawid Malan surely making a case for inclusion in the full T20 team

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Post by JDizzle on Fri 08 Nov 2019, 7:18 am

Phew. Who do leave it out is a question for another day, but that is great striking from Malan.

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