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England's Winter

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Post by LondonTiger Mon 16 Sep 2019, 2:22 pm

First topic message reminder :

New Zealand

T20 Internationals

Friday November 1st - Christchurch
Sunday November 3rd - Wellington
Tuesday November 5th - Nelson
Friday November 8th - Napier
Sunday November 10th - Auckland

Squad
Eoin Morgan (Middlesex) captain
Jonny Bairstow (Yorkshire)
Tom Banton (Somerset)
Sam Billings (Kent)
Pat Brown (Worcestershire)
Sam Curran (Surrey)
Tom Curran (Surrey)
Joe Denly (Kent)
Lewis Gregory (Somerset)
Chris Jordan (Sussex)
Saqib Mahmood (Lancashire)
Dawid Malan (Middlesex)
Matt Parkinson (Lancashire)
Adil Rashid (Yorkshire)
James Vince (Hampshire)


Tests

Wednesday November 20th - Tauranga
Thursday November 28th - Hamilton

Squad
Joe Root (Yorkshire) captain
Jofra Archer (Sussex)
Stuart Broad (Nottinghamshire)
Rory Burns (Surrey)
Jos Buttler (Lancashire)
Zak Crawley (Kent)
Sam Curran (Surrey)
Joe Denly (Kent)
Jack Leach (Somerset)
Saqib Mahmood (Lancashire)
Matthew Parkinson (Lancashire)
Ollie Pope (Surrey)
Dominic Sibley (Warwickshire)
Ben Stokes (Durham)
Chris Woakes (Warwickshire)



South Africa

Tests

Thursday 26th December - Centurion
Friday January 3rd - Cape Town
Thursday January 16th - Port Elizabeth
Friday January 24th - Johannesburg

Squad
TBC


ODI
Tuesday 4th February - Cape Town
Friday 7th February - Durban
Sunday 9th February - Johannesburg

Squad
TBC



T20 Internationals

Wednesday 12th February - East London
Friday 14th February - Durban
Sunday 16th February - Centurion


Sri Lanka

March 7th - Warm up 1, Katunayake (3 day)
March 12th - Warm up 2, Colombo (3 day)
March 19th - 1st Test, Galle
March 27th - 2nd Test, Colombo


Last edited by LondonTiger on Tue 03 Dec 2019, 9:15 am; edited 2 times in total

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Post by LondonTiger Thu 19 Dec 2019, 5:04 pm

The original 3 have apparently worsened, while backroom staff have also succumbed

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Fri 20 Dec 2019, 8:29 am

Dom Bess and Craig Overton called upto the squad because of said illness.
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Post by Gooseberry Fri 20 Dec 2019, 8:49 am

Broad Archer and Leach are sitting out the A game,Denly is in. Very worrying and will leave England with some tough choices when it comes to the test side. Maybe leaving Broad out not a huge thing, and whilst Archer has struggled this winter hes very much seen as the trump card away from home. Also having Root Denly as part time spinners very much opens up the option of no specialist spinner if Leach hasnt bowled at all on tour.

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Post by LondonTiger Fri 20 Dec 2019, 9:00 am

Gooseberry wrote:Broad Archer and Leach are sitting out the A game,Denly is in. Very worrying and will leave England with some tough choices when it comes to the test side. Maybe leaving Broad out not a huge thing, and whilst Archer has struggled this winter hes very much seen as the trump card away from home. Also having Root Denly as part time spinners very much opens up the option of no specialist spinner if Leach hasnt bowled at all on tour.

It has been downgraded from a First Class match to a practice game, so the ill/new guys can be subbed in if ready.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Fri 20 Dec 2019, 5:49 pm

Decent day with the bat for england today - Denly with a hundred, Burns with a half century and Pope unbeaten with a half century. Stokes a half decent score, nothing much for Root or Sibley. Not a bad South Africa A side either
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Post by Gooseberry Sat 21 Dec 2019, 12:03 pm

Much needed confidence century for Pope, and Parkinson is roaring back with a very tidy 7 overs for 8 runs.

Positive signs for England, the batting looks as solid as it has for a long time with everyone having had a score in an england shirt recently. The bowling maybe still has some questions, no sign of Archer and the other illness victims yet. But overall some encouragement after the depths the test team has reached in 2019.

SA are at their own low point and it's an excellent opportunity to start the recovery.


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Post by Duty281 Sun 22 Dec 2019, 11:47 am

Tough day in the field for England, not helped by the continued absence of Broad, Archer and Leach.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Sun 22 Dec 2019, 12:22 pm

From reports it sounds like Broad might be back for the 1st test, Archer and Leach unlikely.

In that event, good that Anderson got through a fair chunk of overs again and seemingly bowled well. Appears to be over that calf issue
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Post by Duty281 Sun 22 Dec 2019, 2:30 pm

Between two evenly matched sides, losing Archer (even if Root doesn’t know how to bowl him) will be a massive blow. Leach not so much, but the options in reserve are hardly inspiring.

Should be a good series. Very close to call, wouldn’t be surprised whoever wins it. Bookmakers have England as narrow favourites (5/4 on England; 6/4 on South Africa).

Plenty of new players in the South African side to add an unknown quantity, and England generally have a pretty decent record in South Africa (presumably because the conditions aren’t too alien!).

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Post by VTR Sun 22 Dec 2019, 7:09 pm

Big injury blow for England as Bavuma is ruled out of the first Test. The guy who averages 31 after 39 Tests. Allows SA to bring in someone who might actually be decent, rather than picked on potential for 5 years!

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Post by Duty281 Sun 22 Dec 2019, 7:27 pm

Bavuma one of those classic players - he’s only got one test ton in his career and he got it against England!

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Post by JDizzle Sun 22 Dec 2019, 8:20 pm

The flattest pitch ever too - the Stokes 258 game I believe? For the Bavuma ton. Both teams racked up 600!

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Post by VTR Sun 22 Dec 2019, 9:57 pm

Yep indeed, a very poor record. To put it into context he has a Test average a touch lower than Ravi Bopara!

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Post by Gooseberry Mon 23 Dec 2019, 9:12 am

VTR wrote:Big injury blow for England as Bavuma is ruled out of the first Test. The guy who averages 31 after 39 Tests. Allows SA to bring in someone who might actually be decent, rather than picked on potential for 5 years!

Theres only two South Africans whove averaged over 28 this year. Its not like hes keeping Steve Smith or even Ravi Bopara out of the team. De bruyns averaging 19, and surely is ahead in line for the firing squad should there be players outside the previous squad demanding a place.
Also notable is Makrams slide in form. He started his career with 4 centuries in 6 moths, but is now 18 months without one and only passed 50 twice this year. His world cup experience and possibly a push to make him a more attacking player seems to have damaged him as a stalwart opener.

I can only see 4 clear picks for the top 7 in Makram (poor form/confidence), Elgar (never more than decent), Faf (good but no Smith and carrying the captaincy), and de Kock (good but also keeping). SAs batting is in every bit as much of a mess as Englands was. I see England as being a step ahead in rebuilding, and whilst there's a bunch of players ( Sibley, Pope and to some extent Burn and Denly) who are still short on test experience and scores they look more solid and confident as a unit than they have for a long time.

SA will start with an opening pair short on form an confident, no clear number 3 or 5 (possibly new caps?), and a huge question about number 7.


Leach missing out. Well its traditionally seamer friendly conditions in SA and England did talk about trying 5 seamers here anyway. But SA have been awful at playing spinners anywhere in the world for a long time now, and Mo was central to Englands success last time they toured here. So maybe a bigger deal than some are making out. It does allow England to stack their batting ever deeper though, if Archer misses out as well that means Woakes and Curran at 8 9 which is pretty ridiculous.

Taking 20 wickets with a kookabura remains key for England. SA have a soft batting line up, if they cant do it against this side then they really need to start cheating properly.

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Post by VTR Mon 23 Dec 2019, 4:06 pm

I get the point on there being worse players currently, but that just means more change is needed. If England had a middle order batsman averaging 30 after so long, we'd want him binned a la James Vince. Surely there comes a point where they accept for all the apparent talent, Bavuma just isn't cutting it.

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Post by Gooseberry Mon 23 Dec 2019, 4:16 pm

Vince averages 25 in tests but I get the point.

Bavuma might not be good enough, but the chances are whats in reserve is even more not good enough. I doubt SA will see it as a positive hes injured even if his place was only secure because they are so desperately short on batsmen and experience going into the series.
Bit like Denly ahead of the NZ tour I guess, England value him even though hes not very good and not done much in tests. Hes not good enough for a team wanting to be number one, but good enough for a team struggling desperately with the bat.

There was of course a time that everyone hated Ian Bell. Who averaged 40 in tests. Its all sort relative really to what others in the team around him are doing, and Bavuma is surrounded by failures. SA need a 3, 5 and 7 with Bavuma injured, thats a lot of spots for a struggling side who havent produced a good batsman in any format for some time (arguably Makram). Very reminiscent of England!


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Post by alfie Tue 24 Dec 2019, 8:29 am

Ah not long to go now...Not sure who is fit and healthy but maybe : Burns Sibley Denly Root Stokes Pope Buttler Woakes Curran Broad Anderson. . Though I would expect changes as the series progresses with a few of those having much to prove .

Unless Archer is 100% I wouldn't play him in this one after the flu : his bowling in NZ showed the effects of tiredness can render him rather ineffective and I'd sooner have him fit and properly rested for the remaining games . Wouldn't bother with a spinner either just yet. At least that would give a long batting lineup Smile



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Post by Dolphin Ziggler Tue 24 Dec 2019, 8:35 am

Could be without Stokes too. Will be at his father’s bedside in a Johannesburg hospital - he is in critical condition. Stokes misses practice today. Thoughts with him and his family

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Tue 24 Dec 2019, 8:38 am

Stokes potentially missing would throw a real spanner in the works - albeit of course, this issue is clearly more important than a game of cricket
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Post by Dolphin Ziggler Tue 24 Dec 2019, 9:52 am

He’s the best player, but in terms of balance, it’s likely the one time we can get away with it. Woakes and Curran are both likely to play to cover the illness absentees, which should leave four front line bowlers and then Root/Denly to bowl some part time spin.

Bairstow comes in to bat?

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Post by Duty281 Tue 24 Dec 2019, 11:33 am

Would think the most likely side England will go with is the one Alfie has put up, with the probable exception of Stokes out for Crawley or Bairstow, after the awful news about Stokes’ father.

Silverwood is saying the stats support an all-seam attack, but I wonder if he’s just unhappy with the quality of Leach’s replacements?

With the way England tend to start test series, and the disruption they've faced over the past week, I’ll be amazed if they win this one.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Tue 24 Dec 2019, 11:49 am

Rudolphin Ziggler wrote:He’s the best player, but in terms of balance, it’s likely the one time we can get away with it. Woakes and Curran are both likely to play to cover the illness absentees, which should leave four front line bowlers and then Root/Denly to bowl some part time spin.

Bairstow comes in to bat?

Woakes is ill and won’t train today. Might have to get one of the barmy army to play at this rate
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Post by Duty281 Tue 24 Dec 2019, 12:05 pm

The most contagious illness since swine flu.

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler Wed 25 Dec 2019, 8:25 am

Woakes, Leach and now Pope too ill to train today

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Post by Gooseberry Wed 25 Dec 2019, 2:46 pm

It is looking more like Stokes will be available though, and only Pope of the 3 ill was likely to start. The all seam strategy had been mooted before they even got here.
For Pope that leaves a big decision between Bairstow who's been rubbish in the warm ups or Crawley who seems like a surplus player.

If as looks likely Anderson Archer and Stokes are fit and included there is some logic in having the 5 bowlers. Curran offers the left arm variety, and those 3 are best used sparingly even when "fit to play".
Broad Archer and Anderson are yet to start a test together ( I think, I'm pretty sure I read that somewhere and it adds up)

Given the amount of gut rot tearing through England SA might be forgiven for not shaking hands at the end.

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Post by alfie Thu 26 Dec 2019, 6:17 am

SA playing their spinner , but can't see England gambling on either a health-impaired Leach or a debutant so the all pace attack seems set in stone for this match. Probably not a bad ground to employ it ; and as Goose says , they won't want to bowl Jimmy or Archer (presuming he's fit , or at least fitter than Woakes) into the ground.
Leaving team selection late and hoping no one else comes down with the dreaded plague this morning...

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler Thu 26 Dec 2019, 8:00 am

Good morning. Return of YJB and a place for Jofra Archer are the main bits of news.

Burns
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Denly
Root
Stokes
Bairstow
Buttler
Curran
Archer
Broad
Anderson

150 test caps for Jimmy

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Post by Duty281 Thu 26 Dec 2019, 8:05 am

Wicket first ball. Anderson, oh how we’ve all missed him.

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Post by alfie Thu 26 Dec 2019, 8:05 am

Dream start for Jimmy Smile

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Post by alfie Thu 26 Dec 2019, 8:09 am

Less so for Elgar... Not like him to go down so tamely . England will think their luck might be changing , perhaps.

Still NZ had Australia one down first over this morning and that didn't lead anywhere...will need to follow this one up to justify choosing to field.

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Post by Duty281 Thu 26 Dec 2019, 8:24 am

Don’t think I’d have bowled first on this. Gentle swing and otherwise good batting conditions. Quick outfield, too.

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Post by VTR Thu 26 Dec 2019, 8:32 am

Without knowing anything of the pitch or conditions, I let out a bit of a groan when I saw that England were bowling first. England don't exactly win that many away from home, and wins bowling first must be very few and far between.

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Post by alfie Thu 26 Dec 2019, 8:38 am

Not a lot of threat so far from the experienced England pair , since that initial wicket.
Pitch appears to be on the slow side though will be interesting to see how it looks when Archer has a go. Apparently SA wanted to bat first anyway and I've not seen anything yet to suggest that view was misguided. Any nerves in the dressing room from that first ball strike will have been settled by the way these two have gone about the early batting.

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler Thu 26 Dec 2019, 8:50 am

Curran gets an early one too. And the way those two seemed so easily settled, that’s quite big. 32-2

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Post by alfie Thu 26 Dec 2019, 8:52 am

Joe Root's day gets better as the introduction of Sam Curran does the trick...left arm angle and a nice catch by YJB . Markram had appeared to be settling in so a good one to get.
Archer into the attack now too. Makes sense to use them all in short spells today as it is a little warm...

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Post by alfie Thu 26 Dec 2019, 9:19 am

Both openers out in the first hour despite England not really bowling anything special...they will take that.
Not sure there is anything in this pitch to justify bowling first but they have made a start on the SA lineup and if they can use five seamers in short spells and hit their lengths consistently they have a chance to pressure an opponent with a fair bit of inexperience in its list.
Worth remembering that neither Broad nor Archer are long out of bed from the Bug ...and lacking match practice of course. And Jimmy is finding his way back from a nasty ongoing injury...no surprise that Curran has been the pick of the bowlers so far.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Thu 26 Dec 2019, 9:24 am

Always good to bowl first on a stonking hot day - not like South African pitches in recent years have often broken up and had a lot of uneven bounce as the game goes on....ah wait. Yes they do, quite often
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Post by Duty281 Thu 26 Dec 2019, 9:33 am

Really not understanding England here. They’ve bowled first on a good batting wicket. They’ve bowled it short around 40% of the time, negating what little swing they have to work with.

Fortunately, South Africa have gifted two wickets, so that’s nice. Like how Hamza is playing.

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Post by alfie Thu 26 Dec 2019, 9:42 am

Yes Hamza looks pretty handy. In earlier than he'd have liked but its turned out to be quite a nice pitch to bat on...certainly nicer than Root was apparently hoping...

Gone now ! My jinx power Smile

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Post by alfie Thu 26 Dec 2019, 9:45 am

Broad much better in this second spell and he's done the job his skipper wanted. Edge from Hamza well snapped up low by Stokes at second slip thumbsup

New boy Dussen up next...England will want one more before lunch now...

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Post by Duty281 Thu 26 Dec 2019, 10:22 am

Three cheap wickets in that session - South Africa will be furious. Not the deepest batting line up, either, so plenty for England to take heart from.

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler Thu 26 Dec 2019, 10:23 am

England have got 3 wickets down before lunch, which confounds the anger here. They’ll be happy.

Fascinating game of chess with Root’s bowlers. Anderson coming back from injury and a senior player, Broad and Archer both laid out with flu till recently, Stokes with his forever dodgy knee, and then little Sam who he seems to not have always had the most trust in.

He’d have to manage their spells efficiently without all that, what with the heat, but he’s also got to look after them thanks to a list of ailments.

Wonder what impact we’ll see from no true spin option. Could well have been another part of that choice to bowl.

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Post by Duty281 Thu 26 Dec 2019, 11:16 am

Curran’s golden arm again. South Africa in a bit of difficulty.

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Post by alfie Thu 26 Dec 2019, 11:21 am

Sam Curran getting the break again...

Anderson's tight spell after lunch building up the dots must have contributed to that error from Van Der Dussen. You'd have to say so far Root has gained good results from shuffling his bowlers. At 97/4 SA anything but comfortable.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Thu 26 Dec 2019, 11:22 am

Du Plessis decision - was there anything conclusive to overturn the infield decision? Not for me
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Post by Duty281 Thu 26 Dec 2019, 11:31 am

Looked like a gap between bat and ball for the Du Plessis appeal, so I was ok with it being overturned.

No matter as he’s gone now. Much better bowling from England after the break and the catches are sticking.

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Post by alfie Thu 26 Dec 2019, 11:33 am

Excellent bowling from Broad sees the back of du Plessis...another catch for Root - and another result from a bowling change thumbsup

111/5 and another debutant in to bat with really only Philander left in the shed after this pair...

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Post by alfie Thu 26 Dec 2019, 11:36 am

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Du Plessis decision - was there anything conclusive to overturn the infield decision? Not for me

Looked a pretty clear gap there ...I reckon the overturn was spot on. As Duty says rather irrelevant now...

De Kock not messing about , is he ? 18 off 12. But he needs some support...

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Post by Duty281 Thu 26 Dec 2019, 11:43 am

About a month ago, New Zealand turned 197/5 into 615/9 against England, so I’m not full of expectation just yet!

De Kock leading the counter attack. Seems to be striking it well.

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England's Winter - Page 13 Empty Re: England's Winter

Post by alfie Thu 26 Dec 2019, 11:47 am

197 a bit different from 111. But yeah , still a bit of work to do.

Broad looks very ready for a rest now : might we see Stokes after drinks ?

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England's Winter - Page 13 Empty Re: England's Winter

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