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Wasps 19/20

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Post by Rinsure on Tue 24 Sep 2019, 2:06 pm

First topic message reminder :

I'm going to try and do one of these to give me somewhere to vent about Wasps through this season...

So the squad is:

Biyi Alo, Jack Owlett, Kieran Brookes, Jeff Toomaga-Allen (tighthead-props)
Tom Cruse, Tommy Taylor, Gabriel Oghre, Ashley Johnson, Alfie Barbeary (hookers)
Ben Harris, Simon McIntyre, Tom West, Zurabi Zhvania (loosehead-props)
Tim Cardall, Marcus Garratt, James Gaskell, Charlie Matthews, Joe Launchbury, Will Rowlands, Theo Vukasinovic, Thibaud Flament, Myles Edwards, Levi Douglas (locks)
Nizaam Carr, Ben Morris, Alex Rieder, Brad Shields, Sione Vailanu, Jack Willis, Tom Willis, Thomas Young (back-rows)
Dan Robson, Will Porter, Ben Vellacott, Sam Wolstenholme (scrum-halfs)
Lima Sopoaga, Billy Searle, Jacob Umaga, Jimmy Gopperth (fly-halfs)
Juan de Jongh, Malakai Fekitoa, Michael Le Bourgeois, Sam Spink, Ross Neal, Ryan Mills, Will Simmonds(centres)
Callum Sirker, Josh Bassett, Zach Kibirige, Paolo Odogwu, Marcus Watson (wingers)
Owain James, Rob Miller, Matteo Minozzi (full-backs)

And the coaching staff consists of:

DoR: Dai Young Lee Blackett
Attack and backs coach: Lee Blackett
Assistant attack coach: Martin Gleeson
Forwards coach: Andy Titterrell
Defence coach: Ian Costello
Transition coach: Matt Everard


Last edited by Rinsure on Wed 19 Aug 2020, 8:45 am; edited 9 times in total

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Post by Rinsure on Tue 28 Jan 2020, 10:00 am

So, we had a good win away at Worcester, which was unexpected but welcome, and moved up the league as a result. Good stuff.

Jacob Umaga selected for England too, which was unexpected but welcome, and he'll benefit from the experience (having watched Quins at the weekend though, Marcus Smith was fantastic).

Rob Howley being linked with Wasps in a coaching role once he returns from his ban. Apparently he's one of three in the frame, and the position is "attack and backs coach", rather than a Head Coach role under Dai. Other names being bandied around (no idea how much truth there may be in any of these) include Alex Sanderson, Dave Walder and Joe Worsley. I think they would all add value, but the likelihood varies...

A refresh is definitely needed.

I also read we're being linked with a "big name fly-half". Hmmm. Searle is definitely leaving, and Sopoaga is surely going to move on, for both his and Wasps sake. That said, Umaga has made the shirt his, and we've got Gopperth and Miller who can cover - are we really going to spend big on another 10 to compete? Unless we're trying to get Cips back...

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Post by Rinsure on Tue 11 Feb 2020, 11:26 am

So with the two week premiership break out of the way, what better way to start game week than by sacking the DoR. There must be something in the timing, but I'm damned if I know what it is.

Well, the clamour for change has been growing with us underperforming last season and this, and Dai's paid the price. I said before that I'm not a fan of mid-season "football style" sackings, and given the safety net provided by the Saracens situation this season I'm surprised the change has been made now.

Lee Blackett is taking over on an interim basis as Head Coach, but it does beg the question of who is going to come in and improve Wasps: in Wasps’ last 46 games in all competitions, so that’s the Premiership Cup, European Challenge Cup, Heineken Champions Cup and the Gallagher Premiership, Wasps have won only 13 games, drawing once and losing 32.

Clearly not good enough, and we'll have to see what happens with the coaching team and any appointments.

Doesn't fill me with confidence for Saturday, though.

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Post by TheMildlyFranticLlama on Tue 11 Feb 2020, 1:25 pm

Weird announcement,
Director of Rugby Dai Young will be stepping back from first-team duties for an interim period.

So he's not actually leaving the club? He could in theory resume his duties at some point?

What's going on there then?

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Post by BigGee on Tue 11 Feb 2020, 7:20 pm

Seems a bit odd as Wasps have looked like they might be starting to turn things around a bit and the relegation pressure is off now.

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Post by Rinsure on Wed 12 Feb 2020, 8:21 am

So apparently it looks unlikely Dai will return to overseeing the first team. Some rumours it might be health related, others that he stood down, but the timing seems odd either way.

Coventry Live is reporting that the following are Paddy Power's odds on the replacement as DoR / Head Coach:

Rob Howley 4/1
Lawrence Dallaglio 5/1
Richard Cockerill 5/1
Lee Blackett 7/1
Michael Cheika 8/1
Joe Worsley 9/1
Joe Schmidt 12/1
Stuart Lancaster 16/1
Pat Lam 18/1
Andy Goode 20/1
Johan Ackerman 20/1
Ian McGeechan 20/1
Conor O’Shea 25/1
Matt O’Connor 25/1
Steve Hansen 33/1
Geordan Murphy 50/1
Warren Gatland 50/1
Jim Hamilton 100/1
Danny Cipriani 200/1

Well, some of those can be ruled out immediately, and the price associated with them is about right, or even too short on some of them.

Obviously there are some with Wasps connections at the top of the list. The Howley rumour has been doing the rounds for a while (along with all the related betting jokes), and LBND already has ties into the club as a director, but might have too much on with media etc (and a lack of coaching experience) to take the top job. Worsley would be good, lots of experience in France and a Wasps pedigree.

Who else? Cockerill might fancy coming home from Scotland; he was born in Rugby and played for Coventry - but would he take on Wasps so close to Leicester where he spent so long? Lee Blackett has the interim job, but I suspect Wasps will want a bigger name.

Cheika and Schmidt are currently between jobs (as far as I know), so might be available. Lancaster has done well with Leinster, and obviously had his England tenure too.

No idea, at the moment!

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Wed 12 Feb 2020, 9:25 am

By all accounts Cockerill is very happy in Edinburgh and his family are settled there.

Chieka and Schmidt would be extremely expensive so you'd assume given Wasps financial position that's a no go.

Howley or Worsley would be the most logical ones. Matt O'Connor laughing if you think things are bad now then he'll make it worse.

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Post by Guest on Wed 12 Feb 2020, 10:01 am

TheMildlyFranticLlama wrote:Weird announcement,
Director of Rugby Dai Young will be stepping back from first-team duties for an interim period.

So he's not actually leaving the club? He could in theory resume his duties at some point?

What's going on there then?

I would think it is just a formal way of the beginning of the end. Severence payments and all the rest of it can be worked out in due course.

The other alternative could be that he is taking time off for his health. For many years now I have looked at him and seen a very unfit man under a lot of professional stress. That has to take its toll and he could seriously do with taking a break for the rest of the season, developing some healthier attitudes around food, and losing about 6 stone. At the moment I'd be worried he's heading to a very early grave. Someone should help him to help himself in the free time he now has.

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Post by Gooseberry on Wed 12 Feb 2020, 10:57 am

To be fair it would be classic Cockerill to go to Coventry just to annoy Tigers die hards but frankly it doenst look like a smart move for anyone currently. His current job is a bigger and more stable one, it would take a huge pay hike to get him to move.  

The Dai Young situation does seem to be partly his own choice, probably stress/health related. It may also be partly a mutual decision, he hasnt really had the backing of the board with Wasps haemoraging big name players and in return ahsnt produced results on the pitch. I doubt he or the club would be too sad to part ways.

But unless something fundamentally changes Wasps arent going to be a massively tempting prospect for any big names currently. They've hit a bit of a brick wall after a couple of decent seasons and just dont have the finances to be a European force any time soon. 

Howley probably isn't a bad bet, if they are willing to overlook his "issues" hes not exactly in a position to be demanding huge wages or turning down offers like Wasps. For all the jokes and hatred of Weslh fans he does have a strong coaching CV. The issue though is does he have any qualification at all in a DoR  role? (no.)

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Post by lostinwales on Wed 12 Feb 2020, 12:09 pm

guestalt_physicality wrote:
TheMildlyFranticLlama wrote:Weird announcement,
Director of Rugby Dai Young will be stepping back from first-team duties for an interim period.

So he's not actually leaving the club? He could in theory resume his duties at some point?

What's going on there then?

I would think it is just a formal way of the beginning of the end. Severence payments and all the rest of it can be worked out in due course.

The other alternative could be that he is taking time off for his health. For many years now I have looked at him and seen a very unfit man under a lot of professional stress. That has to take its toll and he could seriously do with taking a break for the rest of the season, developing some healthier attitudes around food, and losing about 6 stone. At the moment I'd be worried he's heading to a very early grave. Someone should help him to help himself in the free time he now has.

Hoping he doesn't live up to his name

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Post by lostinwales on Wed 12 Feb 2020, 12:11 pm

I am confused in that I thought the move to Coventry was all about providing better financial foundations moving forward. Has this not worked out?

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Post by Rinsure on Wed 12 Feb 2020, 1:25 pm

From The Times. ......

Dai Young is stood down by Wasps amid tension over signings

Wasps are in a state of disarray following the club’s sudden decision earlier today to relieve Dai Young, the director of rugby, of his first-team duties, nominally for “an interim period”. The former Wales prop, 52, has been in charge at Wasps since 2011, overseeing the club’s move from London to Coventry five years ago, and senior players were understood to be shocked yesterday morning when they were told that Young would not be in charge for the Gallagher Premiership game away to Leicester Tigers on Saturday.

After a meeting of the club’s senior management, the news was broken to the first-team squad at Wasps’ training base that Young was stepping back from his role and that Lee Blackett, the attack coach, would be taking charge of the team this weekend. Young has not been dismissed from his position and the announcement to players was understood to be heavily loaded with legal terminology.

The director of rugby’s contract with the club runs until 2023 and paying off such a lengthy deal would be problematic for a club with considerable debts. Having finished eighth in the league last season, Wasps lie ninth in the Premiership table at present, suffering six defeats in their first nine matches.

A club statement said: “Director of rugby Dai Young will be stepping back from first-team duties for an interim period. Lee Blackett will step up to interim head coach. Further announcements will be made in due course.”

It is understood that tensions have been growing between Young and the club’s owners over the amount of money available for players next season. After the recent departures of a raft of internationals, including Elliot Daly, Nathan Hughes, Willie le Roux and Danny Cipriani, Wasps have been spending below the £7 million salary cap this season and Young had been finding it increasingly difficult to attract new signings.

The club’s ongoing struggle to secure a permanent training base has been another source of frustration, having camped in temporary accommodation at Broadstreet RFC since the move to Coventry in 2014, with the latest plan to move to a site in Henley-in-Arden in time for the start of next season.

Young joined Wasps from Cardiff Blues in 2011 and, three years later, with the club on the brink of going bust, he oversaw the move to the Ricoh Arena under the ownership of Derek Richardson, who had taken control a year earlier.

A period of success followed the move, with three consecutive top-four finishes from 2016-18 and a near miss in the 2017 Premiership final, when they were agonisingly beaten in extra time by Exeter Chiefs at Twickenham.

Last season saw them tumble out of the top four and there has been little sign of progress this season. Now Young’s future at the club is shrouded in uncertainty, with no indication of just how long his “interim” period away from the helm is likely to last.

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Post by Rinsure on Wed 12 Feb 2020, 1:32 pm

Reading between the lines, sounds like the lack of available funds to sign / retain talent, and to bring in the top level coaches approached (Edwards, Borthwick etc) has reached boiling point.

We can't sack Dai due to the payoff costs, so presumably our operating budget isn't enough for him to make any signings for next season - possibly for now on-the-market Sarries players, or other big names. Wasps have been noticeably quiet regarding new signings etc, while the likes of Bristol, Quins etc. are shouting about it.

However it plays out, Dai's a Wasps legend, and should be given the respect he merits.


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Post by SecretFly on Wed 12 Feb 2020, 1:44 pm

lostinwales wrote:
guestalt_physicality wrote:
TheMildlyFranticLlama wrote:Weird announcement,
Director of Rugby Dai Young will be stepping back from first-team duties for an interim period.

So he's not actually leaving the club? He could in theory resume his duties at some point?

What's going on there then?

I would think it is just a formal way of the beginning of the end. Severence payments and all the rest of it can be worked out in due course.

The other alternative could be that he is taking time off for his health. For many years now I have looked at him and seen a very unfit man under a lot of professional stress. That has to take its toll and he could seriously do with taking a break for the rest of the season, developing some healthier attitudes around food, and losing about 6 stone. At the moment I'd be worried he's heading to a very early grave. Someone should help him to help himself in the free time he now has.

Hoping he doesn't live up to his name

I hope he lives a long healthy life but I had to laugh at that.  Well spotted in context of guestalt's concerns.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Wed 12 Feb 2020, 7:50 pm

I also assumed it was the start of him leaving the role. It's something you could see coming tbh. He would find it difficult to pick up a head coach role after this.

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Post by lostinwales on Wed 12 Feb 2020, 8:19 pm

SecretFly wrote:
lostinwales wrote:
guestalt_physicality wrote:
TheMildlyFranticLlama wrote:Weird announcement,
Director of Rugby Dai Young will be stepping back from first-team duties for an interim period.

So he's not actually leaving the club? He could in theory resume his duties at some point?

What's going on there then?

I would think it is just a formal way of the beginning of the end. Severence payments and all the rest of it can be worked out in due course.

The other alternative could be that he is taking time off for his health. For many years now I have looked at him and seen a very unfit man under a lot of professional stress. That has to take its toll and he could seriously do with taking a break for the rest of the season, developing some healthier attitudes around food, and losing about 6 stone. At the moment I'd be worried he's heading to a very early grave. Someone should help him to help himself in the free time he now has.

Hoping he doesn't live up to his name

I hope he lives a long healthy life but I had to laugh at that.  Well spotted in context of guestalt's concerns.

It is an old joke unfortunately

Gareth Chilcott to Dai Young in the heat of battle: "do that again and you'll live up to your name."

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Post by propdavid_london on Thu 13 Feb 2020, 12:41 pm

formerly known as Sam wrote:By all accounts Cockerill is very happy in Edinburgh and his family are settled there.

Chieka and Schmidt would be extremely expensive so you'd assume given Wasps financial position that's a no go.

Howley or Worsley would be the most logical ones. Matt O'Connor laughing if you think things are bad now then he'll make it worse.
Worsley I am sure is on decent wedge already being a successful coach in France....Is it Bordeaux he is currently with?

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Thu 13 Feb 2020, 12:57 pm

propdavid_london wrote:
formerly known as Sam wrote:By all accounts Cockerill is very happy in Edinburgh and his family are settled there.

Chieka and Schmidt would be extremely expensive so you'd assume given Wasps financial position that's a no go.

Howley or Worsley would be the most logical ones. Matt O'Connor laughing if you think things are bad now then he'll make it worse.
Worsley I am sure is on decent wedge already being a successful coach in France....Is it Bordeaux he is currently with?

Left Bordeaux at the end of last season, went with Georgia to the RWC as an advisor and then joined Castres on a contract until the end of the season.

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Post by Rinsure on Mon 17 Feb 2020, 10:23 am

Worsley being reported as linked again, via Cov Live (but they quote Fissler and TRP): https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/sport/rugby/joe-worsley-wasps-dai-young-17756746

Lots of speculation, and the word is that there will be a statement from Wasps "early this week", although whether that will address any more than the Dai Young situation remains to be seen.

Clarity would be welcomed. We were dreadful on Saturday, although in the wind and rain it was very difficult conditions for both sides. The wind was so strong it was taking the top inch off pints of beer served at the outdoors bar!

Conditions aside, poor decision making and execution left us empty handed. Credit to Tigers, better side on Saturday.


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Post by Guest on Tue 18 Feb 2020, 12:11 pm

I wonder where this now leaves Dai Young. He would be welcome back in Wales but it would be a step down from Wasps.

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Post by GeordieFalcon on Tue 18 Feb 2020, 12:49 pm

Talk of Dave Walder in line for a role with Wasps...that would tie in with Flood getting a new 2 year deal with us....clearly as a player coach now.

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Post by Rinsure on Tue 18 Feb 2020, 1:15 pm

Statement from Wasps confirms Dai is leaving: https://www.wasps.co.uk/news/dai-young-to-depart-wasps/


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Post by mikey_dragon on Sun 23 Feb 2020, 10:12 pm

So what's the length of Rowlands' current contract? I think at least two of the welsh teams will be eager to sign him.

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Post by Rinsure on Mon 24 Feb 2020, 7:59 am

mikey_dragon wrote:So what's the length of Rowlands' current contract? I think at least two of the welsh teams will be eager to sign him.

I'm pretty sure it's up in the Summer. More or less resigned to losing him, and likely Thomas Young too, to one of the Welsh regions.

In other news - wow, what a performance against Sarries! Some serious champagne rugby, and high quality performance all around. Fekitoa and Kibirige were unplayable, with Umaga pulling the strings well. Made up for the last week in the wind and rain at Leicester!


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Post by mikey_dragon on Mon 24 Feb 2020, 7:44 pm

Hopefully, and he’d be an absolute steal. Even if he doesn’t make it as an international he will be a great club player. Interestingly he was approached by scarlets a couple years back but turned them down - stephen Jones then backs coach knew of him. Given Dai Young is Cardiff through and through it’s likely to be them, even if Dai doesn’t end up back at Cardiff. Hopefully Dragons make an attempt too though. 

Rowlands only had a brief cameo on the weekend but he looked pretty good. He’s one hell of a big lad.

I’m not sure if anyone wants or needs Young. Perhaps Ospreys, a good back-up for Tipuric - or a replacement if they’re actually losing him.

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Post by Rinsure on Thu 09 Apr 2020, 12:25 pm

Been a while since I've been on here - hope everyone is keeping well in these unusual times.

Statement on Prem Rugby website about the new coaching setup at Wasps.

Lee Blackett is Head Coach, there's no DoR, and we're bringing in a new S&C coach (Dan Baugh, our previous one leaving at the end of the season anyway) in Pete Atkinson, who looks to have a decent pedigree, and replacing Andy Titterell as forwards coach with Richard Blaze, who's currently at the RFU with the Red Roses.

All sounds promising. Bit surprised there's no-one coming in to oversee the club in a DoR position, especially with Blackett not having the depth of experience in the top flight, but it's an opportunity for new blood at the top of the club, so let's see how we go!

Can't argue with Blackett's results since Dai left - let's hope it continues in that vein!

No mention of defence coach, and Costello's position; my assumption at the moment is that he's staying in post.

All we need now is some rugby! Oh, the signing of Ryan Mills was a good one, very pleased with that too.

From the web statement:

Premiership Rugby wrote:

Wasps can confirm that current interim Head Coach, Lee Blackett, has been appointed as the club’s full-time Head Coach.

Blackett stepped up from his role as Attack & Backs Coach to take the first -team reins in mid-February and his impact was immediate, overseeing 3 wins from 4 games which helped propel the club back into contention for a top-four finish.

Joining Blackett as part of a new-look coaching team are Pete Atkinson and Richard Blaze.

Atkinson will become Head of Performance after the conclusion of his contract with the Italian Rugby Union. He has vast experience across a number of sports following highly successful spells with both Saracens and Leicester Tigers, as well as working at the English Institute of Sport and the ECB as their National Lead for Strength & Conditioning.

Currently at the RFU working with the England Women’s rugby team, Blaze will take up the role of Forwards Coach. Blaze joined England Rugby as part of the coach development agreement in November 2017, working with the England U20 team. He previously worked as Forwards Coach at Leicester Tigers, winning the Premiership title in 2012/13, having played for the club from 2007-10.

It has also been confirmed that current Forwards Coach Andy Titterrell will be leaving the club.

“The last few months have been fantastic, and I can’t thank the coaches, players, staff and supporters enough for the support they’ve given me. I’m really excited to have the chance to work with Pete and Richard as we prepare to get the team back playing again and hopefully deliver the success this club deserves.

“I’d also like to place on record my thanks to Andy for his time at Wasps. He’s a very popular member of the group and we wish him well in his next venture,” said Blackett.

Stephen Vaughan, Wasps Chief Executive, commented, “Since taking over as interim Head Coach in February, Lee’s impact has been extremely positive. The results on the pitch speak for themselves and he fully deserves the opportunity to lead the group. He is very driven, has good rugby intellect and is relishing working with the talented group we have. Lee sees growth in the squad, and we’re excited about the new additions to support him and how they will work together.

“Pete and Richard bring a wealth of experience with them, and their pedigree at elite level sport is unquestionable.

“We believe this new structure, which removes the need for a Director of Rugby, is the best fit for the club. I am confident that we have the right leadership team in place to take us forward and start the next chapter of our history.”

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Post by Rinsure on Tue 18 Aug 2020, 9:33 am

Alright everyone. Been a while, hope you lot are all safe and well.

So, we've got rugby back, and Wasps came out and hit their straps pretty well. A little rustiness evident, particularly in the first ten minutes or so, but once we started firing it was a pretty good performance all round the park.

Firstly, the defensive efforts were excellent. Set after set on our own line, and we kept Saints out well. Perhaps we've all been on Costello's case too soon, it looks like the systems seem to be embedding and working. Mitchell's try was sloppy work from Kibirige I thought, too slow / quiet when reloading around to the short side, needed to take players with him, be more urgent. Well taken though, can't argue. The rolling maul try we conceded was again well taken, exploiting Willis being in a bad position and driving through that channel. Overall though, defense was great - especially the hits by Fekitoa (okay, the second one was borderline) that really shifted momentum.

In attack? Slick, great lines, vision and awareness. The first try was a training ground special, lovely to watch. The last was sheer Wasps improv, great ambition, support and execution - especially from Sopoaga (of whom I have been pretty critical in the past) to cut in and offload to Robson.

The back row were incredible - all three. Wasn't sure about Shields at 8, but it worked. Launch and Rowlands were solid, and the front rows did their respective jobs pretty well too.

Losing Brookes to injury might have implications given the fixture congestion, but it was the best performance I've seen from Jeff T-A at Wasps, so that's encouraging too.

Home to Worcester on Friday night. Allez!

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Post by Rinsure on Tue 18 Aug 2020, 9:38 am

Plus: Flament off to Toulouse at the end of the season. Not a surprise, but disappointing. We've been linked with Jacques du Plessis, of Montpellier, who I'd take in a moment!

And: Fekitoa before the disciplinary commission today after his third YC of the season on Sunday. That's be a conundrum if he cops a ban.

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Tue 18 Aug 2020, 9:41 am

After that level of performance Vs Saints you've got to be feeling pretty confident about the game Vs Wuss. Wasps have got the backline to light up any game but questions have been over the forwards. I thought they looked good at the weekend actually. 

Fixture congestion probably not Wasps need without masses of depth up front but Worcester is very winnable and could mean that they sacrifice the mod week game? Aim for TBPs at the weekends?

Flament is off at the end of the 2019/20 season, not an area of strength for Wasps, you got an incomers?

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Post by Rinsure on Tue 18 Aug 2020, 9:54 am

formerly known as Sam wrote:After that level of performance Vs Saints you've got to be feeling pretty confident about the game Vs Wuss. Wasps have got the backline to light up any game but questions have been over the forwards. I thought they looked good at the weekend actually. 

The back row have been consistently good, losing Carr is a blow but Shields did a good job on Sunday. I'm not convinced that Vailanu has the fitness to last 60 (let alone 80), so think we need to strengthen there.

formerly known as Sam wrote:Fixture congestion probably not Wasps need without masses of depth up front but Worcester is very winnable and could mean that they sacrifice the mod week game? Aim for TBPs at the weekends?
The game after Wuss - the mid-week game - is Sale at the Ricoh. I'd be targeting that for a win; big top 4 clash. I'd be more inclined to go more "experimental" for the Wuss game.

formerly known as Sam wrote:Flament is off at the end of the 2019/20 season, not an area of strength for Wasps, you got an incomers?
See previous message, we're linked with du Plessis from Montpellier, who is a hybrid back row / lock, and also ticks the "big nasty" box I think we've needed for a while. Hoping we get that deal signed. We've brought in Myles Edwards from a T2 side in France (I forget who), who is a big unit, but I don't know much more about him than that. We've also got Levi Douglas on loan from Bath until the end of the season.

I think there's a lot to look at in the engine room. Rowlands is likely off to Wales at some point. Gaskell has been good but fragile. Matthews has gone to Japan. Launch is likely to be on Eng duty....


Last edited by Rinsure on Tue 18 Aug 2020, 10:19 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Levi Douglas, not Levi Burton. Who the hell is Levi Burton, anyway?)

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Tue 18 Aug 2020, 10:08 am

Levi Douglas formerly of Bath is off to the Championship isn't he? Playing for you guys in the hope of landing a better deal. He's a big unit I thought he'd maybe break through before now.

If you get du Plessis that'll be a major coup, he's got a big reputation in France and I can't imagine Montpellier really wanting to let him go. I also can't imagine his wages being insignificant. The big lump from France, Edwards, looks worth a punt as there's a lot of talent in the lower French leagues.

Problem with targeting the mid week game is that there's then a short turnaround for the next weekend for your big name players. I think most sides will be going for hybrid sides. Bit of an ask to have players play mid week then Saturday. Unless they are bench players.

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Post by Rinsure on Tue 18 Aug 2020, 10:15 am

formerly known as Sam wrote:
If you get du Plessis that'll be a major coup, he's got a big reputation in France and I can't imagine Montpellier really wanting to let him go.

Montpellier got slapped with a whopping EU3M fine for salary cap breaches, so they might be keener than you thought:

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/rivals-want-saracens-like-punishment-for-montpellier-despite-huge-fine-in-salary-cap-case


Last edited by Rinsure on Tue 18 Aug 2020, 10:16 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : various things, because I'm crap at this.)

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Tue 18 Aug 2020, 12:25 pm

That's the only reason I've not laughed off the connection. The French league love their massive and nasty forwards and he has another year to run on his contract. They might have to cut some but he might not be among those that they would ideally like to lose. New coach has already cleared out some of the older names for a younger squad.

"Arrivals: Enzo Forletta; Titi Lamositele; Yannick Arroyo; Florian Verhaeghe; Mickael Capelli; Alexandre Becognee; Cobus Reinach; Vincent Rattez; Alex Lozowski; Julien Tisseron
Departures: Johannes Jonker; Konstantine Mikautadze; Julien Bardy; Lucas de Coninck; Kevin Kornath; Kahn Fotuali'i; Enzo Sanga; Francois Steyn; Nemani Nadolo; Timoci Nagusa; Benjamin Fall"

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Post by Rinsure on Tue 18 Aug 2020, 1:06 pm

I'm not sure of the timeline between their signings and the fine, so it's possible they're still looking to make room - there's some decent names in their incomings there.

We shall see, I guess!

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Tue 18 Aug 2020, 1:46 pm

As a Wasps fan keep your fingers crossed, he'd be a monster signing. Exactly the kind of edge Wasps could do with in the tight five. At 27 you could tie him down to a long term deal and get some stability in an area which, as you say, Wasps are going to lose some talent. Launchbury isn't getting any younger and has international committments, Rowlands is off next summer as well as having international committments and Gaskell is made of glass. If Levi Douglas works out as well that would be a boost.

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Post by Rinsure on Wed 19 Aug 2020, 4:37 pm

Rinsure wrote:
And: Fekitoa before the disciplinary commission today after his third YC of the season on Sunday. That's be a conundrum if he cops a ban.

One match ban for Fekitoa. Misses Wuss, back for Sale.

He'd probably have had Friday off anyway. Bit of a result.

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Post by Rinsure on Thu 20 Aug 2020, 3:48 pm



So *full* rotation for the Wasps side to play Wuss on Friday night:

Wasps (First-team appearances)

15 Rob Miller (111)
14 Paolo Odogwu (6)
13 Michael Le Bourgeois (31)
12 Ryan Mills (1)
11 Marcus Watson (45)
10 Lima Sopoaga (40)
9 Ben Vellacott (1)
1 Simon McIntyre (166)
2 Tom Cruse (77)
3 Biyi Alo (11)
4 Tim Cardall (15)
5 James Gaskell (c) (113)
6 Ben Morris (27)
7 Gabriel Oghre (21)
8 Tom Willis (14)

16 Alfie Barbeary (1)
17 Tom West (25)
18 Jeff Toomaga-Allen (13)
19 Theo Vukasinovic (5)
20 Sione Vailanu (17)
21 Sam Wolstenholme (8)
22 Jacob Umaga (22)
23 Matteo Minozzi (10)

So, what to make of that? The back-row is.. experimental. Gabby Oghre hasn't, to the best of my knowledge, ever played open side flanker in a top flight game. He's mobile, and hooker to openside is a "thing", with AJ for Wasps, Singleton for England.... so it might work. He's good enough for it to. Good to see Tom Willis at 8, I wasn't sure he was fit. Ben Morris at 6 in a "second jackal" role, I assume.

The engine room looks lightweight to me, but the front row is anything but. I reckon it should be strong enough.

Halfbacks could be exciting, Vellacott is effectively a new signing, and Lima is finally finding he feet. The midfield is okay, I'd be more concerned if Olli Lawrence was playing for Worcester. The back three are decent, all challenging to play next week too, I would think.

Alfie Barbeary and Theo V. likely to make debuts off the bench. Exciting to see Barbeary being pushed, only just out of the Academy.

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Post by BigTrevsbigmac on Tue 25 Aug 2020, 6:51 am

Oghre was mom for me & very unlucky not to be involved tonight. Great crop of youngsters coming through. The quick turnaround is allowing these lads to get good game time experience early.

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Tue 25 Aug 2020, 9:52 am

Oghre probably needs a few days to recover. Playing two games within such a short space of time probably not the best for him, or any player really. Wasps have rotated pretty well, if they get another good result tonight their coaching team will be feeling really pleased.

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