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Gallagher Premiership 2019/20

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Gallagher Premiership 2019/20 - Page 7 Empty Gallagher Premiership 2019/20

Post by LondonTiger on Thu 17 Oct 2019, 2:07 pm

First topic message reminder :

Table

Pos
Team
Played
Won
Drawn
Lost
For
Against
Pts Difference
Bonus
Points
1
Northampton Saints
7
5
2
0
194
146
48
3
23
2
Exeter Chiefs
6
4
2
0
142
97
45
4
20
3
Gloucester Rugby
7
3
4
0
149
121
28
6
18
4
Bristol Bears
7
3
3
1
157
165
-8
4
18
5
Bath Rugby
7
4
3
0
139
145
-6
1
17
6
Worcester Warriors
7
4
3
0
122
144
-22
1
17
7
Sale Sharks
7
3
4
0
144
105
39
5
17
8
Harlequins
7
3
3
1
158
169
-11
3
17
9
London Irish
7
2
4
1
128
179
-51
2
12
10
Wasps
7
2
5
0
134
191
-57
3
11
11
Leicester Tigers
7
1
5
1
118
191
-76
0
6
12
Saracens
6
5
1
0
158
87
71
-32
-13


Bath
Last Season - 6th

Players in: Lewis Boyce (Prop), Christian Judge (Prop), Will Stuart (Prop), Mike Williams (Utility Forward), Josh McNally (Second Row), Ollie Fox (Scrum Half)
Promoted from Academy: Miles Reid, Will Vaughan, Sam Nixon, Tom de Glanville, Will Britton, Jack Davies, Tom Doughty, Levi Davis promoted (X Factor permitting)

Players Out: Dave Attwood (Second Row), Paul Grant (Back Row), Luke Charteris (Second Row), James Wilson (Utility Back), Kahn Fotuali'i (Scrum Half), Jacques van Rooyen (Prop), Jack Wilson (Wing), Cooper Vuna (Wing), Anthony Perenise (Prop), Michael van Vuuren (Hooker), Max Lahiff (Prop)


Bristol Bears
Last Season - 9th

Players in: Dave Attwood (Second Row), Nathan Hughes (Back Row), Nicky Thomas (Prop), Max Lahiff (Prop), Tyrese Johnson-Fisher (Wing)
Promoted from Academy: Sam Bedlow, John Hawkins, Toby Fricker

Players out: Nick Haining (Back Row), George Smith (Back Row), Nick Fenton-Wells (Back Row), Joe Latta (Second Row), Tusi Pisi (Fly Half), Sione Faletau (Prop), Jack Lam (Back Row)


Exeter Chiefs
Last Season: Runners Up

Players in: Stuart Hogg (Full Back), Will Witty (Second Row), Tom Price (Second Row), Stan South (Utility Forward), Jannes Kirsten (Utility Forward), Jacques Vermeulen (Utility Forward)

Players out: Santiago Cordero (Wing/FB), Tom Lawday (Back Row), Moray Low (Prop), Ollie Atkins (Second Row), Mitch Lees (Second Row)


Gloucester
Last Season: 3rd

Players in: Joe Simpson (Scrum Half), Jamal Ford-Robinson (Prop), Chris Harris (Centre), Corne Fourie (Prop)
Promoted from Academy: Charlie Chapman, Alex Seville, Alex Craig, Ciaran Knight, Tom Seabrook, Henry Walker

Players out: Paddy McAllister (Prop), Gareth Denman (Prop), Kyle Traynor (Prop) Tom Savage (Second Row), Gareth Evans (Back Row), Ben Vellacott (Scrum Half), Henry Purdy (Centre/Wing)


Harlequins
Last Season 4th

Players in: Santiago Garcias Botta (Prop), Martin Landajo (Scrum Half), Michele Campagnaro (Centre), Scott Baldwin (Hooker), Stephan Lewies (Second Row), Glen Young (Second Row), Will Evans (Flanker), Simon Kerrod (Prop), Tom Lawday (Back Row), Travis Ismaiel (Wing), Veriniki Goneva (Wing), Tevita Cavubati (Second Row)

Players out: Alofa Alofa (Utility Back), George Merrick (Second Row), Lewis Boyce (Prop), James Horwill (Second Row), Josh Ibuanokpe (Prop), Tim Visser (Wing), Charlie Walker(Wing), Demitir Catrakilis (Fly Half), Mat Luamanu (Back Row), Luke Wallace (Flanker), Stan South (Second Row), Dave Ward (Hooker), Dave Lewis (Scrum Half), Ben Glynn (Second Row)


Leicester Tigers
Last season 11th

Players in: Jordan Taufua (Back Row), Noel Reid (Fly Half/Centre), Calum Green (Second Row), Jaco Taute (Centre), Tomas Lavanini (Second Row), Nephi Leatigaga (Prop), Charlie Clare (Hooker), Joe Thomas (Centre), Johnny McPhillips (Fly Half), EW Viljoen (Utility Back), Hanro Liebenberg (Back Row), Jordan Coghlan (Back Row)
Promoted from Academy: Tom Hardwicke, Joe Heyes, Sam Lewis, Jordan Olowefela, Tommy Reffell, Sam Aspland Robinson, Harry Simmons, Ben White

Players out: Matt Toomua (Centre), Mike Williams (Utility Forward), Graham Kitchener (Second Row), Mathew Tait (Utility Back), Will Evans (Flanker), Tom Varndell (Winger), James Voss (Second Row), Matt Smith (Centre), Gareth Owen (Centre), Michael Fitzgerald (Second Row), Brendon O'Connor (Back Row), Valentino Mapapalangi (Back Row), Fred Tuilagi (Back Row), Leonardo Sarto (Wing),  Joe Ford (Fly Half), David Feao (Prop), David Denton (Back Row), Ross McMillan (Hooker), Campese Ma'afu (Prop), Charlie Thacker (Centre)


London Irish
Last Season: Promoted

Players in: Allan Dell (Prop), Nick Phipps (Scrum Half), Curtis Rona (Wing), Sean O'Brien (Back Row), Sekope Kepu (Prop), Paddy Jackson (Fly Half), Waisake Naholo (Wing), Adam Coleman (Second Row), Ruan Botha (Second Row), Steve Mafi (Utility Forward), George Nott (Utility Forward)

Players Out: Josh McNally (Second Row), Ian Keatley (Fly Half), Brendan McKibbin (Centre), Mike Coman (Back Row), Tommy Bell (Utility Back), Topsy Ojo (Wing), Fergus Mulchrone (Centre), Luke McLean (Full Back), Sebastian de Chaves (Second Row), Ofisa Treviranus (Back Row), Greig Tonks (Utility Back),  Napolioni Nalaga (Wing), Sam Twomey (Second Row), Filo Paulo (Second Row), Manasa Saulo (Prop)


Northampton Saints
Last Season: 4th

Players in: Matt Proctor (Utility back), Owen Franks (Prop), Ryan Olowofela (Wing), Henry Taylor (Scrum Half), Michael van Vuuren (Hooker)
Promoted from Academy: Ehren Painter, Fraser Dingwall,  James Grayson,  Alex Mitchell,  Alex Moon

Players Out: Luther Burrell (Centre), Jamal Ford-Robinson (Prop), James Craig (Utility Forward), James Haskell (Back Row), Dominic Barrow (Second Row), Nafi Tuitavake (Wing), Ken Pisi (Centre)


Sale Sharks
Last Season: 7th

Players in: Jake Cooper-Woolley (Prop), Robert du Preez (Fly Half), Akker van der Merwe (Hooker), Lood de Jager (Second Row), Coenie Oosthuizen (Prop), Dan du Preez (Utility Forward), Jean-Luc du Preez (Back Row), Simon Hammersley (Full Back), Mark Wilson (Back Row)

Players Out: Andrei Ostrikov (Second Row), Mark Jennings (Centre), Alexandru Țăruș (Prop), Johnny Leota (Centre),  Paolo Odogwu (Wing), James O'Connor (Utility Back), Josh Strauss (Back Row), George Nott (Utility Forward)


Saracens
Last Season: Champions

Players in: Elliot Daly (Utility back), Rhys Carré (Prop), Jack Singleton (Hooker), Josh Ibuanokpe (Prop)
Promoted from Academy: Alistair Crossdale, Dominic Morris

Players out: Christopher Tolofua (Hooker), Sione Vailanu (Back Row), Hayden Thompson-Stringer (Prop), David Strettle (Wing), Henry Taylor (Scrum Half) Dominic Day (Second Row), Marcelo Bosch (Centre), Schalk Burger (Back Row)


Wasps
Last Season: 8th

Players in: Malakai Fekitoa (Centre), Jeffery Toomaga-Allen (Prop), Ben Vellacott (Scrum Half), Matteo Minozzi (Utility back), Sione Vailanu (Back row), Biyi Alo (Prop), Paolo Odogwu (Wing), Zach Kibirige (wing)
Promoted from academy:  Will Porter,  Callum Sirker,  Sam Spink,  Tom Willis,  Tim Cardall,  Gabriel Oghre,  Owain James, Jacob Umaga

Players out: Jake Cooper-Woolley (Prop), Nathan Hughes (Back row), Will Stuart (Prop), Elliot Daly (Centre), Joe Simpson (Scrum half), Willie le Roux (Full Back), Michele Campagnaro (Centre), Kearnan Myall (Second Row), Gabiriele Lovobalavu (Centre), Matt Mullan (Prop)


Worcester Warriors
Last Season 10th

Players in: Graham Kitchener (Second Row), Jono Kitto (Scrum Half), Melani Nanai (Wing), Ed Fidow (Wing)
Promoted from Academy: Andrew Kitchener,  Ted Hill

Players out:  Bryce Heem (Wing), Josh Adams (Wing), Darren Barry (Second Row), Wynand Olivier (Centre), Dewald Potgieter (Back row), Jack Singleton (Hooker), Jonny Arr (Scrum half), Carl Kirwan (Back row), Luke Baldwin (Scrum Half), Ben Te'o (Centre), Alafoti Fa'osiliva (Back row)


Last edited by LondonTiger on Sun 29 Dec 2019, 2:04 pm; edited 10 times in total

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Gallagher Premiership 2019/20 - Page 7 Empty Re: Gallagher Premiership 2019/20

Post by Khouli Khan on Mon 16 Dec 2019, 6:42 am

formerly known as Sam wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:If Tigers do go down then you should sack Murphy and replace him with Jim Mallinder.

No thanks we don't want Voldemort.

Murphy's days are numbered.

I wouldn't necessarily have an issue with Jim Mallinder as DoR, he could only be an improvement. The problem Tigers have, is they keep hiring ex-players as DoR. It clearly hasn't worked - but no doubt we'll get the old spin about 'searching the world for the best person' etc....

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Post by yappysnap on Sun 22 Dec 2019, 9:05 pm

Good win for Quins on the weekend coming back from 17-0 down at 20mins to then win with a tbp. Just need to play for the full 80 and we'll hopefully challenge the middle of the table.

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Sun 22 Dec 2019, 9:24 pm

Khouli Khan wrote:
formerly known as Sam wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:If Tigers do go down then you should sack Murphy and replace him with Jim Mallinder.

No thanks we don't want Voldemort.

Murphy's days are numbered.

I wouldn't necessarily have an issue with Jim Mallinder as DoR, he could only be an improvement. The problem Tigers have, is they keep hiring ex-players as DoR. It clearly hasn't worked - but no doubt we'll get the old spin about 'searching the world for the best person' etc....

The problem wasn't the hiring a consultancy firm to search the world for a shortlist of potential candidates the problem was certain members of the board deciding to ignite said list and accept an application from Matt O'Connor. Now there is an argument over which board members were in favour and which weren't I've heard Ben Kay was against the appointment but who knows.

The shortlist was rumoured to be Van Graan, Ackerman or Wayne Smith/John Plumtree can't remember which. Bit late now as Van Graan and Ackerman have been snapped up by other clubs and won't fancy moving to us, Plumtree has just accepted a job with the ABs and Smith is in part retirement as a DOR in Japan. A board with no vision couldn't take the risk, they'd tried it with Loffreda and got burned then they tried it with Meyer and stumbled into a lucky situation. Everything after that has helped feed the slow decline.

Mallinder has a good rugby brain but is he the man to give us a hard edge and develop a winning mentality? I'm not sure. Borthwick is the rumoured appointment and that should be a good one but I'm worried we'll need more.

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Post by Gooseberry on Mon 23 Dec 2019, 9:29 am

formerly known as Sam wrote:
Khouli Khan wrote:
formerly known as Sam wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:If Tigers do go down then you should sack Murphy and replace him with Jim Mallinder.

No thanks we don't want Voldemort.

Murphy's days are numbered.

I wouldn't necessarily have an issue with Jim Mallinder as DoR, he could only be an improvement. The problem Tigers have, is they keep hiring ex-players as DoR. It clearly hasn't worked - but no doubt we'll get the old spin about 'searching the world for the best person' etc....

The problem wasn't the hiring a consultancy firm to search the world for a shortlist of potential candidates the problem was certain members of the board deciding to ignite said list and accept an application from Matt O'Connor. Now there is an argument over which board members were in favour and which weren't I've heard Ben Kay was against the appointment but who knows.

The shortlist was rumoured to be Van Graan, Ackerman or Wayne Smith/John Plumtree can't remember which. Bit late now as Van Graan and Ackerman have been snapped up by other clubs and won't fancy moving to us, Plumtree has just accepted a job with the ABs and Smith is in part retirement as a DOR in Japan. A board with no vision couldn't take the risk, they'd tried it with Loffreda and got burned then they tried it with Meyer and stumbled into a lucky situation. Everything after that has helped feed the slow decline.

Mallinder has a good rugby brain but is he the man to give us a hard edge and develop a winning mentality? I'm not sure. Borthwick is the rumoured appointment and that should be a good one but I'm worried we'll need more.

Im not sure Meyer was lucky, wasnt it him that bought in houghaard who we ended up paying wages after he left just to get rid of him? That he scooted after such a short period probably stung Tigers again after the Lofredda mess too. From what I remember Cockerill getting the job was against what much of the board wanted with a push for another "global name" despite him winning stuff in the early days.
The Murphy decision too seems to have been largely forced on the board by circumstance and a desire to "plug the leaks" rather than seeking a bounce effect by rushing into appointing yet another new name from completely outside. Possibly as well a lack of candidates they felt comfortable with at short notice, and quite possibly a lack of finances to commit to the sort of big contract they'd need for a name theyd hope to be permanent.
I was surprised when they gave Murphy a permanent contract, and it does seem to have been a mistake. Borthwick as you say seems like a really positive appointment, but too little too late? And not at a high enough level to impact things like recruitment and the overall shape and morale of the squad.

The decision to appoint MOC is absolutely the big screw up and point of confusion as you say. Whilst he can be seen as a victory for the "ex tiger insider" camp he was also a coach coming in with a big reputation from elsewhere and some level of respect outside Tigers, and not an ex player. I certainly dont see Tigers having had a problem in appointing ex players in top roles in recent years, Cockerill did a pretty good job and forced his way into that role, Murphy is the only other one for a long time. The bigger burns have come form MOC and Lofredda. Going for outsiders has worked no better than promoting from within.

But I do feel they are in a position now where they need to be looking outside and burn them all. Things have got so bad that maintaining the Tigers dressing room culture seems like a bad idea rather than a good one, the culture is broken. Hopefully Borthwick can bring some of the Saracens stand up attitude.

On paper Tigers have the players to keep them up. They aren't bringing their best to the pitch right now. The positive is that they are still only 2 points behind "Coventry", and sending them down would be very satisfying. Plus its increasingly likely they wont be missing so many players to England this 6 nations.

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Post by LondonTiger on Mon 23 Dec 2019, 10:49 am

I think he means we stumbled into a lucky situation with Meyer's unexpected departure.

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Mon 23 Dec 2019, 3:11 pm

LondonTiger wrote:I think he means we stumbled into a lucky situation with Meyer's unexpected departure.

👆

We lucked out that Cockers stepped up and did so well. The start of our problems came when we appointed him as DOR though. As a head coach he was ideally suited but as a DOR he lacked long term vision, everything was about the next game instead of succession planning etc.

Now we are stuck in the opposite position where we have a head coach who has a good long term vision but can't get it right at game day. Borthwick should help and will replace Bakewell, if Ford goes as well then we should be dropping a big cheque on Tony Brown's desk and asking whether a couple of years in Europe would interest him. Hopefully shared experiences in Japan can help convince him.

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Post by Gooseberry on Mon 23 Dec 2019, 4:24 pm

Gotcha...agreed on that.

Would things have been different if they'd gone with Back and Key all those years ago?

Who knows, but I dont think we can pin the decline and that turning into a deep crisis on appointing from within, and certainly not a blind faith in it.

What seems more clear is that sorting out the mess isnt going to happen through Murphy, as good a bloke and great a player as he was. Last of the links back to the true club era really might need to go, its sad but his time has overseen a prolonged period of inexcusably bad results and under performance.

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Post by Rugby Fan on Sat 28 Dec 2019, 12:57 am

Nizaam Carr's winning try for Wasps against Bristol filmed from the stands.

https://twitter.com/TamminenJuha/status/1210695815133564934

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Post by Rinsure on Sat 28 Dec 2019, 12:03 pm

Amazing how much difference one win can make to the table. Wasps leap up to 11 points, and Worcester v Irish at Sixways this afternoon has a very different feel to it; the losers will be nervously looking over their shoulder.

Tigers at a busy HQ for the Big Game against 'Quins looks like a tall order for the strugglers. That said, I'd love Tigers to win to keep the gap to Sarries as wide as possible (but as a Wasps fan, I like the distance, thank you very much!).

Talking of Sarries, looking forward to the game tomorrow. Exeter with a chip on their shoulder, and a Sarries side which looks suspiciously expensive... Whistle

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Post by king_carlos on Sat 28 Dec 2019, 4:40 pm

Big blow for Quins to lose Campagnaro given their injuries in the centre.

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Post by king_carlos on Sat 28 Dec 2019, 4:43 pm

I know the Beaudan Barrett 'kick pass' is all the rage these days but a lot of Prem fly-halves get a penalty advantage and pointlessly dink the ball away in hope more than expectation knowing it will come back for the penalty.

Ford did it then. Yes it led to 3 points but I can't help thinking Tigers would have been better off keeping the ball in hand, playing out some phases with the advantage and trying to build the momentum they had started to gain.

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Post by king_carlos on Sat 28 Dec 2019, 4:59 pm

If Tigers could convert their scrummaging penalties into consistent attacking platforms through the line-out then they would be able to grind out victories whilst playing poorly.

The line-out is consistently killing us. Thankfully we've got another chance here having won a penalty from the Quins scrum that resulted from a Tigers line-out being turned over.

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Sat 28 Dec 2019, 5:04 pm

Ref then allowed Quins to come through and drive the player before he hit the floor. Another turnover ensues.

Quins look dangerous as individuals, we'll need to be careful.

Kalamafoni HIA failed after clashing with Ford. Bit of a blow.

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Post by king_carlos on Sat 28 Dec 2019, 5:04 pm

If Tigers line-out was functioning then we'd be way ahead here. As it stands I actually think we are lucky to be 3-6 up courtesy of two Ford penalties.

Quins look much better with ball in hand. Chisholm has been very good at the back along with Ibitoye, Goneva and Murley looking dangerous.

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Post by king_carlos on Sat 28 Dec 2019, 5:06 pm

Sam Lewis saved a try there through his impressive pace alone. 5 metre scrum for Quins though.

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Sat 28 Dec 2019, 5:08 pm

Lewis very good.

Why have we got the smallest players on the pitch defending the 10/12 channel at a 5m scrum. Surely the logical thing would have been to push Ford out to 13 and shuffle the centres in one.

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Post by tigertattie on Sat 28 Dec 2019, 5:09 pm

That’s why I’m not a pro rugby player.

If that’s was me facing Lasike I’d have just waved him through.

Stuff trying to tackle that one on one
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Post by king_carlos on Sat 28 Dec 2019, 5:13 pm

Eastmond has offered very little in defence since the tightening of tackle laws exposed his poor technique.

It still feels like Eastmond is picked in the hope that him and Ford will magically recreate their partnership from Bath's run to the final.

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Sat 28 Dec 2019, 5:14 pm

To be fair Eastmond does ok. The initial hit takes away a lot of the Lasike momentum. Smith does well to hold onto the ball long enough to ensure that Ford can't step across and help so when Lasike doesn't go down he can force his way over. Needed a second man in to help finish the job.

Why are we attacking from so deep? Get closer to the line and distribute it's far too easy to defend at the minute.

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Post by king_carlos on Sat 28 Dec 2019, 5:19 pm

Bad sides tend to give away penalties and points in batches. One penalty becomes two very quickly, one score becomes two just as quickly. That's what Tigers have done in the last 5 minutes of the half.

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Sat 28 Dec 2019, 5:22 pm

Attack is absolutely shocking. All deep, all off 9 and 10. Just so easy to defend, especially when it's in one and two. Get a few pick and goes to pull the Quins defence in and then move it wider. What the hell do we pay Mike Ford for?

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Post by king_carlos on Sat 28 Dec 2019, 5:22 pm

formerly known as Sam wrote:To be fair Eastmond does ok. The initial hit takes away a lot of the Lasike momentum. Smith does well to hold onto the ball long enough to ensure that Ford can't step across and help so when Lasike doesn't go down he can force his way over. Needed a second man in to help finish the job.

Why are we attacking from so deep? Get closer to the line and distribute it's far too easy to defend at the minute.

Good execution from Quins but all too simple at this level. Lasike is a big unit but he's hardly Manu or de Allende in terms of effectiveness.

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Post by tigertattie on Sat 28 Dec 2019, 5:29 pm

As a neutral, I’m just delighted that flatmam has finally removed that moustache
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Post by formerly known as Sam on Sat 28 Dec 2019, 5:31 pm

king_carlos wrote:
formerly known as Sam wrote:To be fair Eastmond does ok. The initial hit takes away a lot of the Lasike momentum. Smith does well to hold onto the ball long enough to ensure that Ford can't step across and help so when Lasike doesn't go down he can force his way over. Needed a second man in to help finish the job.

Why are we attacking from so deep? Get closer to the line and distribute it's far too easy to defend at the minute.

Good execution from Quins but all too simple at this level. Lasike is a big unit but he's hardly Manu or de Allende in terms of effectiveness.

How effective do you need to be from 2m out when you can barrel at speed into someone 5 stone lighter than you? You only have to make a couple of metres.

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Post by king_carlos on Sat 28 Dec 2019, 5:47 pm

formerly known as Sam wrote:
king_carlos wrote:
formerly known as Sam wrote:To be fair Eastmond does ok. The initial hit takes away a lot of the Lasike momentum. Smith does well to hold onto the ball long enough to ensure that Ford can't step across and help so when Lasike doesn't go down he can force his way over. Needed a second man in to help finish the job.

Why are we attacking from so deep? Get closer to the line and distribute it's far too easy to defend at the minute.

Good execution from Quins but all too simple at this level. Lasike is a big unit but he's hardly Manu or de Allende in terms of effectiveness.

How effective do you need to be from 2m out when you can barrel at speed into someone 5 stone lighter than you? You only have to make a couple of metres.

Evidently not very. My 4G broke down on the train I'm watching from so I'm now onto radio commentary and naturally missed Eastmond's intercept try having criticised him earlier!

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Post by king_carlos on Sat 28 Dec 2019, 5:49 pm

Ford is very good at ripping the ball in contact. I'm surprised sides haven't become more wise to protecting to ball around him.

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Post by king_carlos on Sat 28 Dec 2019, 5:51 pm

Ross Chisholm has been fantastic for Quins today. Really stepping up in Brown's absence.

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Sat 28 Dec 2019, 6:03 pm

Nice try from the rolling maul and then stupid penalty from kick off.

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Post by king_carlos on Sat 28 Dec 2019, 6:23 pm

Scrum in our own 22 with Marler on the tighthead. This should be a penalty followed by a prime opportunity to get the line-out functioning further up the field...

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Sat 28 Dec 2019, 6:25 pm

Ref bottles the scrum let's Quins drop it 5m from Tigers line and then lie all over the ball. Disappointing, otherwise I think the refs been very good. Should have been a penalty to clear our lines there.

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Sat 28 Dec 2019, 6:26 pm

Then blows up despite second still on the clock? Unless the match day clock differs from the TV of course.

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Post by yappysnap on Sat 28 Dec 2019, 6:27 pm

What a useless ref.

Poor quality game and a disappointing result all in all.

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Post by king_carlos on Sat 28 Dec 2019, 6:27 pm

Tigers fortunate to get 2 points from that after how poor they were ball in hand.

With that level of scrum dominance Tigers should be running away with matches. The line-out once again killed us.

Quins were impressive ball in hand.

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Sat 28 Dec 2019, 6:33 pm

yappysnap wrote:What a useless ref.

Poor quality game and a disappointing result all in all.

I felt we got away with a couple I felt your boys got away with a couple. Consistent at least.

If Tigers want to win these games we need to score team tries and not wait for individual magic. Great to finally see a working rolling maul, of we'd done that in the first half we'd have put Quins away.

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Post by king_carlos on Sat 28 Dec 2019, 7:05 pm

Now caught up on the 30 minutes that I followed on the radio commentary.

Taufua has been fantastic impetus for the pack in open play. His power in the contact and carrying lines are a notch above our other forwards. Genge and Lavanini are also noticeable in that area, showing their international pedigree. I hope Lewis, Reffell and Taufua continue in the back row against Bristol with Thompson hopefully fit to come onto the bench.

Had the Collier sinbinning happened a scrum earlier I wonder whether Genge would have been kept on to target Marler on the tighthead side.

The abject line-out once again stunted the chance to turn scrum dominance into points consistently. We got a good maul try at the end but in the scheme of things with the penalties we had it's still so poor.

I thought Ben White once again looked better coming off the bench than he has as a starter. With Harrison playing his last game (if selected of course) next weekend that will be a very important barrier for White to overcome.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Sat 28 Dec 2019, 8:33 pm

Hat trick for LRZ? Well I guess he could get a call up after all.

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Post by yappysnap on Sat 28 Dec 2019, 8:38 pm

Quins just lacked physicality and composure. We had chances but you never felt confident they'd use them, and even when leading the boys never looked confident.

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Post by yappysnap on Sat 28 Dec 2019, 8:39 pm

Our scrum as well was disastrous

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Post by king_carlos on Sat 28 Dec 2019, 8:59 pm

yappysnap wrote:Our scrum as well was disastrous

Baldwin having neck surgery is a big blow to be fair. He's a very solid hooker. With Marler, Sinckler, Collier and Botta the scrum should never struggle that much though regardless of how good a job Boris Stankovich has done coaching the Tigers scrum.

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Post by king_carlos on Sat 28 Dec 2019, 9:01 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:Hat trick for LRZ? Well I guess he could get a call up after all.

Rees-Zammit is a brilliantly exciting talent. He's definitely one of the quickest wings in the Prem. The other two who spring immediately to mind are May and Thorley. All three of them have come through the Gloucester set-up interestingly with May and Rees-Zammit both attending Hartpury College.

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Sat 28 Dec 2019, 9:02 pm

yappysnap wrote:Quins just lacked physicality and composure. We had chances but you never felt confident they'd use them, and even when leading the boys never looked confident.

I think physicality in the loose was pretty good, your defence held up well. Set piece was your undoing. Lineout got you ball but your rolling maul was somehow worse than ours. Scrum should not have been an issue for you but you got creamed. Your props are good enough technicians in that department and you had plenty of weight behind them, they were a little lucky not to concede a couple more penalties.

Quins were a little to kick ball away, they made yards ball in hand (once they stopped dropping it in contact in the second half). I thought if you'd played a little less ping pong and ran the ball more you might have got more reward.

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Sat 28 Dec 2019, 9:05 pm

king_carlos wrote:
Taufua has been fantastic impetus for the pack in open play. His power in the contact and carrying lines are a notch above our other forwards. Genge and Lavanini are also noticeable in that area, showing their international pedigree. I hope Lewis, Reffell and Taufua continue in the back row against Bristol with Thompson hopefully fit to come onto the bench.

If the backrow is to start with what finished next week then we need Spencer back in the second row. We looked a little short of a physical carrier. Spencer and Lavanini combined very well Vs Chiefs until Spencer got a knock, I'd like to see them try and bully Bristol in the tight next weekend. Given the size of the Bristol backrow ours will have to be up for the tackle count because it'll be a tough afternoon.

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Post by LondonTiger on Sat 28 Dec 2019, 9:08 pm

king_carlos wrote:Tigers fortunate to get 2 points from that after how poor they were ball in hand.

With that level of scrum dominance Tigers should be running away with matches. The line-out once again killed us.

Quins were impressive ball in hand.

Just got home from the game. Think that is two Quins/Tigers "Big Matches" I have been to (cannot remember a 3rd) and both were draws.

Last time we dominated and Quins stole the win, but this time we were very lucky. Outside the scrum we were pretty rubbish. Our defensive organisation was again shoddy, but this time our tackling held up better than usual.

We have to beat Brizzle next week.

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Post by king_carlos on Sat 28 Dec 2019, 9:15 pm

formerly known as Sam wrote:
king_carlos wrote:
Taufua has been fantastic impetus for the pack in open play. His power in the contact and carrying lines are a notch above our other forwards. Genge and Lavanini are also noticeable in that area, showing their international pedigree. I hope Lewis, Reffell and Taufua continue in the back row against Bristol with Thompson hopefully fit to come onto the bench.

If the backrow is to start with what finished next week then we need Spencer back in the second row. We looked a little short of a physical carrier. Spencer and Lavanini combined very well Vs Chiefs until Spencer got a knock, I'd like to see them try and bully Bristol in the tight next weekend. Given the size of the Bristol backrow ours will have to be up for the tackle count because it'll be a tough afternoon.

I'm not Spencer's biggest fan but he's been next best of our locks after Lavanini. That's really indicative of the issue in the second row more than anything though. I'd be interested to see the stats but from viewing all the games I'd say the line-out is marginally more solid with Green playing. Either way it's abject though. Green's form has fallen off a cliff since pre-season.

Reffell is possibly the most consistent defender in the squad and Lewis topped the tackle count today so they are suited to lots of tackling around the fringes. Taufua has been a menace in defence as well.

I thought Polota-Nau had one of his more positive impacts after coming on. Meanwhile I felt that Tom Youngs, who has been in good form this season, was fairly anonymous apart from one good turnover disrupting the maul. The scrum was excellent but that seemed more down to Genge and Cole doing a number on Sinckler and Marler. Youngs has been in solid form but the guaranteed selection of players for merely being solid is part of the issue realistically.

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Sun 29 Dec 2019, 8:14 am

I think Lewis was particularly useful, he added some real speed to the pack (good try saver) and his defence was good. There was one particular tackle were Goneva showed a bit of footwork and Lewis read it like a book and put him into touch, we've seen many more senior pros be left grabbing at thin air when Nicky starts stepping.

Reffell needs to get over the ball quicker, he's in the right position but isn't reacting quick enough. One thing we really lacked was the ability to regularly slow the Quins ball down or turn it over. Oh the plus side our discipline was good but Bristol play a very high tempo game and we will have to find away to slow them down.

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Post by TightHEAD on Sun 29 Dec 2019, 10:54 pm

Well played Exeter, nice game to come home too after a busy two weeks in Aus.
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Post by WELL-PAST-IT on Mon 30 Dec 2019, 1:19 pm

Lawes had the best game I can remember him having in recent times Saturday, tackled like a demon, made a lot of very hard yards, caught everything that was thrown near him in the lineout.

Reinach got MotM, but Lawes was at the core of everything, bodes well for England in the 6N.

Francis was also very good at 12, defensively very sound, despite multiple changes due to injuries all around him.

We seem to have a lot of young 10/15s around at the moment, Furbank had to step in for Biggar for the second half, never seen him at 10 before; completely different play style but very effective. He is just so quick over 15-20m, if Gloucester left just a smiggin of a gap, he was through before they could react. Reminded me of, dare I say, it Barry John. no effort, just ghost through holes nobody else could see. Time will tell if he can live up to my billing.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Mon 30 Dec 2019, 2:27 pm

Is Rhys Carre more of a regular in the Saracens 23 now? Always seems to be on the bench.

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Post by yappysnap on Mon 30 Dec 2019, 11:23 pm

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:Lawes had the best game I can remember him having in recent times Saturday, tackled like a demon, made a lot of very hard yards, caught everything that was thrown near him in the lineout.

Reinach got MotM, but Lawes was at the core of everything, bodes well for England in the 6N.

Francis was also very good at 12, defensively very sound, despite multiple changes due to injuries all around him.

We seem to have a lot of young 10/15s around at the moment, Furbank had to step in for Biggar for the second half, never seen him at 10 before; completely different play style but very effective. He is just so quick over 15-20m, if Gloucester left just a smiggin of a gap, he was through before they could react. Reminded me of, dare I say, it Barry John. no effort, just ghost through holes nobody else could see. Time will tell if he can live up to my billing.

You're not prone to hyperbole about the odd Ssints prospect or two are you Well-Past-It...

Good to hear that Lawes is in form he's very handy for England

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Post by LondonTiger on Tue 31 Dec 2019, 7:00 pm

I really rate Lawes as a player. Just wonder if, at international level, he needs to be playing with a hard nosed physical lock.

He is very much a modern lock, sort of a 5.5.

He is also someone who naturally is much lighter than his playing weight, which perhaps explains his relative lack of oomph in scrums and tight exchanges.

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