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Silly Season Transfer Rumours 19/20

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Mon 22 Jul 2019, 12:56 pm

First topic message reminder :

Not a great position for Saints, captain and international level hooker looks likely so they've resorted to signing what is at best squad filler. Presumably Haywood and Fish will carry the bulk of the playing time.

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Post by BigGee on Thu 16 Jan 2020, 1:13 pm

Richie Gray to Glasgow for two years, a very good signing!

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Post by TightHEAD on Thu 16 Jan 2020, 1:23 pm

Jamie Roberts leaves Bath with immediate effect.
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Post by TightHEAD on Thu 16 Jan 2020, 1:23 pm

I guess our wingers might see the ball again!
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Post by king_carlos on Thu 16 Jan 2020, 1:44 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:Can we have Mallins up here please...we need a class 10. kiss Hug

I rate him so highly I'd be happy with Tigers offering him a decent contract then using Veainu on the wing a bit more. If Tigers are re-signing May and/or signing Ben Lam (another recent rumour) then it wouldn't fit cap wise though.

I believe Malins is keener on playing 10 but there's definitely an argument his pace and step is better utilised at 15. Players with the all round skills to be genuine threats running, kicking and passing are increasingly rare with modern defenses so strong.

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Post by GeordieFalcon on Thu 16 Jan 2020, 1:45 pm

Josh matavesi has joined bath with immediate affect from Falcons.

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Post by LondonTiger on Thu 16 Jan 2020, 1:46 pm

king_carlos wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:Can we have Mallins up here please...we need a class 10. kiss Hug

I rate him so highly I'd be happy with Tigers offering him a decent contract then using Veainu on the wing a bit more. If Tigers are re-signing May and/or signing Ben Lam (another recent rumour) then it wouldn't fit cap wise though.

I believe Malins is keener on playing 10 but there's definitely an argument his pace and step is better utilised at 15. Players with the all round skills to be genuine threats running, kicking and passing are increasingly rare with modern defenses so strong.

Malins reminds me of Goode (but quicker). Saracens always intended to play Goode at 10 but selected him at 15 to get experience, but he failed to shine the season he started as the 10 and iirc Farrell came in. Big issue for Malins is that his goal kicking is very flaky - so a kicker would be needed elsewhere if he played 10.

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Post by LondonTiger on Thu 16 Jan 2020, 1:47 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:Josh matavesi has joined bath with immediate affect from Falcons.

Roberts off too South Africa and Matavesi down to Bath. Each getting a downgrade in location Run


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Post by WELL-PAST-IT on Thu 16 Jan 2020, 1:48 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:
formerly known as Sam wrote:Thompkins hasn't long signed a new long term contract. I doubt Sarries would opt to release him a 24 year old with a decent injury record when they've got Barritt at 33 and Taylor at 30 both with worse injury records and both in international player money.

I wonder if we'll see Lozowski trialled at 15 to see if he's a viable option. He's played on the wing effectively and at flyhalf.

In which case Sarries might see his worth, unless he's unhappy about being 2nd fiddle for so long which dented his international ambitions, until now. Blues seem set to try again anyway, so the lad has options whilst he is sitting in a good position right now.  

With Tompkins looking to re-invent himself as Welsh and therefore if successful likely to be away for large parts of the season, they may change their minds about who they keep.

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Post by propdavid_london on Thu 16 Jan 2020, 1:52 pm

Heard that Dombrant has re-signed with Quins.

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Post by king_carlos on Thu 16 Jan 2020, 2:11 pm

LondonTiger wrote:
king_carlos wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:Can we have Mallins up here please...we need a class 10. kiss Hug

I rate him so highly I'd be happy with Tigers offering him a decent contract then using Veainu on the wing a bit more. If Tigers are re-signing May and/or signing Ben Lam (another recent rumour) then it wouldn't fit cap wise though.

I believe Malins is keener on playing 10 but there's definitely an argument his pace and step is better utilised at 15. Players with the all round skills to be genuine threats running, kicking and passing are increasingly rare with modern defenses so strong.

Malins reminds me of Goode (but quicker). Saracens always intended to play Goode at 10 but selected him at 15 to get experience, but he failed to shine the season he started as the 10 and iirc Farrell came in. Big issue for Malins is that his goal kicking is very flaky - so a kicker would be needed elsewhere if he played 10.

When judging young goal kickers I always remember a really interesting chat from Jon Callard at a rugby club dinner a few years back. He basically said that with younger players he judges them on how naturally they can strike a ball, then the rest (set-up, mindset, reading conditions, training ethic, etc) can be coached.

Malins isn't the best goal kicker but he strikes a ball very well. George Ford I think is a good example of a guy who was a natural kicker/striker of the ball but not a natural goal kicker. He had his share of off-days but his goal kicking now is fantastic. Along with his leadership and game management his kicking arguably kept Tigers in the Prem last season.

Sam Costelow is in that process as well I think. He strikes the ball brilliantly but I remember a couple of seasons back seeing him have a few tough days off the tee. His accuracy is coming with experience though and as he strikes the ball beautifully he should have a decent range. I just hope Tigers tie Sam and Tommy Reffell to Tomas Francis style long-term contract with rolling extensions because I'd be surprised if both don't develop into internationals.

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Post by Collapse2005 on Thu 16 Jan 2020, 4:15 pm

LondonTiger wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:Josh matavesi has joined bath with immediate affect from Falcons.

Roberts off too South Africa and Matavesi down to Bath. Each getting a downgrade in location Run


Interesting to see how Roberts gets on. He is only 33, probably has a year left in the tank.

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Post by BigGee on Thu 16 Jan 2020, 5:02 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:Josh matavesi has joined bath with immediate affect from Falcons.

Roberts off too South Africa and Matavesi down to Bath. Each getting a downgrade in location Run


Interesting to see how Roberts gets on. He is only 33, probably has a year left in the tank.

He does not seem in any great rush to kick start the medical career! He has been declining as a player for several years now and I am surprised he has not called it a day already.

A super rugby season in the sun will likely be his last call and maybe the timing works out better with whatever else he has got lined up for his post rugby career.

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Thu 16 Jan 2020, 6:53 pm

Wow Stormers fans going from DeAllende to Jamie Roberts. That'll be a shock for them. Similar size but current abilities are not in the same league. Big Jamie has been a bust for Bath and they'll no miss him though Matavesi isn't really much of an improvement.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Thu 16 Jan 2020, 8:37 pm

Roberts usually does well with a good platform which is something you imagine an SA team could give him. He'll get over the gainline and create space for others - also a good finisher. He doesn't offer much more than that. In the form I seen from him recently I thought he might just be a better option than Parkes right now, but Hadleigh has better hands and is a constant fixture now so what can ya do.

When looking at the centre options I don't imagine he'll be playing for the Lions either, but he could be playing against them.

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Post by GeordieFalcon on Fri 17 Jan 2020, 10:08 am

formerly known as Sam wrote:Wow Stormers fans going from DeAllende to Jamie Roberts. That'll be a shock for them. Similar size but current abilities are not in the same league. Big Jamie has been a bust for Bath and they'll no miss him though Matavesi isn't really much of an improvement.

Hes a frustration Sam. I liken him to Billy Twelvetrees. He actually has a fantastic skill set (great tactical kicking game, line breaking ability and size, a fh passing game)...you just rarely see the full game consistently. He should be absolutely bossing games...running the show from 12...but just doesnt do it.
Hence why hes been playing for us and not a top prem, French or Celtic side.

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Post by LondonTiger on Mon 20 Jan 2020, 1:14 pm

Scarlets looking to sign Sam Costelow from Leicester, though I thought he signed a decent length of contract last year.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Mon 20 Jan 2020, 1:52 pm

He would be a good signing for Scarlets and I think he could flourish there - does he play 10 and 15? Ideally they need a NWQ winger of a high standard too.

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Post by LondonTiger on Mon 20 Jan 2020, 2:53 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:He would be a good signing for Scarlets and I think he could flourish there - does he play 10 and 15? Ideally they need a NWQ winger of a high standard too.

Primarily 10, but can cover 9 & 15 to a degree.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Mon 20 Jan 2020, 3:16 pm

A bit of a utility then. I wonder if Asquith is leaving, he’s their current utility.

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Post by LondonTiger on Mon 20 Jan 2020, 4:45 pm

Oh he is very much a 10, rather than a utility back. Just able to cover those positions according to the blurb. Never seen him covering either position I must admit.

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Mon 20 Jan 2020, 6:17 pm

If you sign Costelow he'll be your starting flyhalf inside two years. He's a serious talent and if Tigers haven't secured him to a long term deal they'll regret it. Perfect long term successor to George Ford.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Mon 20 Jan 2020, 6:52 pm

Makes me think, if they’re targeting him then the others are eyeing up Owen Williams.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Mon 20 Jan 2020, 6:59 pm

I think one of us would also do well to get Jonah Holmes. He may only be a short-term international but will be very good for a club. Fast player and can cover 15.

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Mon 20 Jan 2020, 8:47 pm

You would be doing well. Holmes signed a new deal before his Wales debut.

I thought Owen Williams would be moved straight into the Cardiff Blues 10 shirt?

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Post by yappysnap on Mon 20 Jan 2020, 9:19 pm

formerly known as Sam wrote:Wow Stormers fans going from DeAllende to Jamie Roberts. That'll be a shock for them. Similar size but current abilities are not in the same league. Big Jamie has been a bust for Bath and they'll no miss him though Matavesi isn't really much of an improvement.

He was so poor for Quins too, we had high hopes and in reality he was such a let down. Soft running lines and hands like shovels, just the very worst hands. Then injured every other week too.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Mon 20 Jan 2020, 9:37 pm

formerly known as Sam wrote:You would be doing well. Holmes signed a new deal before his Wales debut.

I thought Owen Williams would be moved straight into the Cardiff Blues 10 shirt?

How much longer does that run?

I think his best fit would be Dragons, maybe I’m biased... Cardiff have Jarrod Evans and academy graduate Ben Thomas who has seen game time at 10 and 12 this season. Their back-up centre Millard is a good little player. First choice centres are Halaholo and Lee-Lo. I was pretty sure they wouldn’t be in the market for more backs but then I found out they’d been chasing Tompkins for a while.

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Post by LondonTiger on Tue 21 Jan 2020, 9:03 am

Steve Borthwick finally confirmed as taking the Head Coach job at Tigers, with Murphy moving into the DoR role.

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Post by LondonTiger on Tue 21 Jan 2020, 9:27 am

Vincent Koch rumoured to be joining the Bulls.

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Post by BigGee on Tue 21 Jan 2020, 10:33 am

You wonder if a few of Sarries Southern hemisphere players might jump off for the Super rugby season.

I would imagine Skelton would be a prize back in Australia

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Post by lostinwales on Tue 21 Jan 2020, 10:42 am

BigGee wrote:You wonder if a few of Sarries Southern hemisphere players might jump off for the Super rugby season.

I would imagine Skelton would be a prize back in Australia


The Australians asked before the RWC and Skelton didn't want to go. Interesting times

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Post by mikey_dragon on Tue 21 Jan 2020, 11:39 am

lostinwales wrote:
BigGee wrote:You wonder if a few of Sarries Southern hemisphere players might jump off for the Super rugby season.

I would imagine Skelton would be a prize back in Australia


The Australians asked before the RWC and Skelton didn't want to go. Interesting times

Well he might have changed his mind now. I guess it depends if he wants more caps for the Wallabies, and with Folau out of the picture it frees up more cash for the ARU (I think?). I wonder how 'Aussie' Skelton feels?

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Post by lostinwales on Tue 21 Jan 2020, 11:47 am

mikey_dragon wrote:
lostinwales wrote:
BigGee wrote:You wonder if a few of Sarries Southern hemisphere players might jump off for the Super rugby season.

I would imagine Skelton would be a prize back in Australia


The Australians asked before the RWC and Skelton didn't want to go. Interesting times

Well he might have changed his mind now. I guess it depends if he wants more caps for the Wallabies, and with Folau out of the picture it frees up more cash for the ARU (I think?). I wonder how 'Aussie' Skelton feels?

Yes. Can't argue with that. Mind you he won't be the first antipodean player who has found life easier away from home. He seems in much better shape with Saracens than he was before

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Post by LondonTiger on Tue 21 Jan 2020, 3:14 pm

LondonTiger wrote:Vincent Koch rumoured to be joining the Bulls.

Sale Sharks also in the mix it seems.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Tue 21 Jan 2020, 3:38 pm

LondonTiger wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:Vincent Koch rumoured to be joining the Bulls.

Sale Sharks also in the mix it seems.

He would feel right at home up there.

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Post by king_carlos on Tue 21 Jan 2020, 6:15 pm

Various Sarries rumours I've heard:

Staying: Farrell, George, Isiekwe, Earl, Malins, Spencer, Wray, Lamositele

Rumoured to have been moving on anyway: Barritt (retiring), Wigglesworth, Rhodes, Figallo, Lewington, Clark, Woolstencroft

Rumoured to be considering leaving due to relegation: Koch (Bulls/Sale), Singleton, Skelton (Oz), Itoje, Kruis (Japan/Saints), Gallagher (Munster), Daly

Lozowski is rumoured to have re-signed but may have a relegation clause given he signed whilst this was ongoing.

Apparently Griffiths has offered Saints Kruis to try to keep Kpoku at Sarries but Saints aren't nibbling at it. I understand why with Lawes, Ribbans and Moon. They have line-out leaders but the potential of Kpoku is enormous.

I've heard little about the Vunipola bros beyond Billy to Tigers. I can't see that happening though as Tigers are already struggling to keep May whilst staying within the cap.

Cobus Wiese was linked with Sarries before the initial verdict was released. He'd be a very good signing for several clubs if no longer going to Sarries.

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Tue 21 Jan 2020, 8:18 pm

Rather than Billy I'd imagine Tigers would be more interested in Singleton or Woolstencroft. Billy would be very expensive and liable to international call ups and Lions selection. With Taufua, Liebenburg and Kalamafoni all big units in the backrow plus a host of young lads coming through the academy I'm not sure he'd be anything like a priority.

Mako wouldn't be required either as we've got Genge now on an international contract plus good solid backup options in Gigena and Bateman.

Itoje would be a brilliant partner for Lavanini in the row but again too expensive for our likely cap position. Gallagher would be a handy signing of we could get in before Munster but the draw of international rugby might be too tempting for him.

Most of the league would be keen on Lozowski if becomes available. He can legitimately play anywhere from 10 to 15. If we could get him in as a replacement for Eastmond that would be perfect. Can't see it though and he's being linked with Bath who must be eying him up as the long term replacement for Roberts.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Tue 21 Jan 2020, 8:49 pm

One of Itoje or Kruis has to be on their way to Bristol, surely.

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Post by king_carlos on Tue 21 Jan 2020, 10:21 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:One of Itoje or Kruis has to be on their way to Bristol, surely.

If they've signed Sinckler alongside Radrada and re-signing Charles Piatua then they will be edging towards the cap.

Attwood and Vui with Joyce and Holmes rotating in has given Bristol a lot of value for money as well.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Tue 21 Jan 2020, 11:28 pm

Is Sinckler confirmed? They could withdraw the Tips offer (rumoured to be 500k) and use that? Bristol’s lock options seem good enough but if they have high aspirations then they should probably get more england forwards.

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Post by king_carlos on Wed 22 Jan 2020, 12:00 am

mikey_dragon wrote:Is Sinckler confirmed? They could withdraw the Tips offer (rumoured to be 500k) and use that? Bristol’s lock options seem good enough but if they have high aspirations then they should probably get more england forwards.

Not confirmed yet but noise coming out of Quins is they can't afford what Sinckler is being offered elsewhere. A lot of Quins cap is tied up in Marler, Robshaw, Care and Brown. Marler was good value before coming out of international retirement. The other 3 are Quins legends but on the wane. Tough situation for them as a club.

Radrada and Piutau as marquees. Luatau and Hughes are on around £1m between them. Afoa, Thacker, Attwood and Vui will be earning good wages.

No doubt that Bristol will be interested in Sarries tight 5 forwards but they've offered big money elsewhere already by most rumours.

Vunipola x 2, Singleton, Kruis, Itoje, Daly, Taylor, Maitland, Tompkins, Lozowski. They are all Sarries first team squad players rumoured to be looking to move due to the scandal. Most sides will be interested. How many can fit them in the cap will be a different story.

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Post by king_carlos on Wed 22 Jan 2020, 2:32 am

Nick Auterac to Saints reported by BBC.

If Auterac can stay fit then there's still a very good player in there. He will be at best 3rd choice behind the elder Waller brother and Francois van Wyk. That's if the elder Franks brother is playing tighthead more with Paul Hill rumoured leaving.

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Wed 22 Jan 2020, 8:40 am

I'd expect a few of Sarries big names to go out in loan ala Mark Wilson as opposed to just leave. Someone like Thompkins who has a long term contract with the club could go on loan to Wales for a year to help his new international aspirations. Rumours Itoje and the Vunipolas might go to France on loan for a season.

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Post by BigGee on Wed 22 Jan 2020, 9:29 am

formerly known as Sam wrote:I'd expect a few of Sarries big names to go out in loan ala Mark Wilson as opposed to just leave. Someone like Thompkins who has a long term contract with the club could go on loan to Wales for a year to help his new international aspirations. Rumours Itoje and the Vunipolas might go to France on loan for a season.

Would that not mean they could not play for England next season though?

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Post by LondonTiger on Wed 22 Jan 2020, 9:39 am

BigGee wrote:
formerly known as Sam wrote:I'd expect a few of Sarries big names to go out in loan ala Mark Wilson as opposed to just leave. Someone like Thompkins who has a long term contract with the club could go on loan to Wales for a year to help his new international aspirations. Rumours Itoje and the Vunipolas might go to France on loan for a season.

Would that not mean they could not play for England next season though?

Maybe, but if Saracens still held their contract till the season after at least then I guess that may count as exceptional circumstances.

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Post by LondonTiger on Wed 22 Jan 2020, 9:53 am

LondonTiger wrote:
BigGee wrote:
formerly known as Sam wrote:I'd expect a few of Sarries big names to go out in loan ala Mark Wilson as opposed to just leave. Someone like Thompkins who has a long term contract with the club could go on loan to Wales for a year to help his new international aspirations. Rumours Itoje and the Vunipolas might go to France on loan for a season.

Would that not mean they could not play for England next season though?

Maybe, but if Saracens still held their contract till the season after at least then I guess that may count as exceptional circumstances.

From Times:

There is no decision yet on whether Saracens players could keep playing for England if they move to a foreign club on loan next season.

The RFU has an agreement that all England players must play for an English club, barring “exceptional circumstances”. “Anything to do with exemptions and exceptional circumstances is a bit hypothetical at this stage,” Bill Sweeney, the RFU chief executive, said. “The first time we need to consider things like that are the autumn internationals.”

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Post by BamBam on Wed 22 Jan 2020, 10:03 am

You'd hope that the decision was made in the immediate term rather than being dragged out until the AIs. The players and the England coaching staff need certainty asap, definitely before the summer tour squad is named at the very least

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Post by GeordieFalcon on Wed 22 Jan 2020, 10:09 am

king_carlos wrote:Nick Auterac to Saints reported by BBC.

If Auterac can stay fit then there's still a very good player in there. He will be at best 3rd choice behind the elder Waller brother and Francois van Wyk. That's if the elder Franks brother is playing tighthead more with Paul Hill rumoured leaving.

Dissapointing whats happened to him. Where is he going. Maybe a club with a real good scrum coach could revitalise him.

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Wed 22 Jan 2020, 10:27 am

GeordieFalcon wrote:
king_carlos wrote:Nick Auterac to Saints reported by BBC.

If Auterac can stay fit then there's still a very good player in there. He will be at best 3rd choice behind the elder Waller brother and Francois van Wyk. That's if the elder Franks brother is playing tighthead more with Paul Hill rumoured leaving.

Dissapointing whats happened to him. Where is he going. Maybe a club with a real good scrum coach could revitalise him.

He badly needs that. Saints really have sidelined him for a while. Unless he gets out there and finds a club desperate to have him and that suits his style of rugby he's wasting his career. Bristol or Quins would be good options for a mobile tighthead but neither have notable scrum coaches though Afoa might be a handy short term mentor at Bristol.

Bath have just recruited two tightheads otherwise he would have been good there working under Hatley. Stankovitch at Tigers is probably the best scrum coach in the league but options at tighthead are pretty good here. Cole hasn't got that many years left though and we are getting rid of Cortes in the summer. So might be a goer though there's no guarantee of game time and we have young Joe Heyes doing a good job.

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Post by bluestonevedder on Wed 22 Jan 2020, 10:28 am

These are surely the conversations that the RFU need to begin having with EJ. 

The RFU will want England players playing the highest level of club rugby, which will mean they'll have to go on loan to clubs outside the premiership as most can't afford them. If they head overseas then by the current letter of the selection policy, they won't be able to be selected. I imagine that we will see some flexibility in the selection policy next season to accommodate this sudden outflux of players from the prem and into foreign leagues. 

Alternatively, and thinking outside of the box, the RFU might want the players to go down to the championship. They'll play less, with more chance to recover, and arguably could bring their best to the England camp.

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Post by BamBam on Wed 22 Jan 2020, 10:38 am

bluestonevedder wrote:These are surely the conversations that the RFU need to begin having with EJ. 

The RFU will want England players playing the highest level of club rugby, which will mean they'll have to go on loan to clubs outside the premiership as most can't afford them. If they head overseas then by the current letter of the selection policy, they won't be able to be selected. I imagine that we will see some flexibility in the selection policy next season to accommodate this sudden outflux of players from the prem and into foreign leagues. 

Alternatively, and thinking outside of the box, the RFU might want the players to go down to the championship. They'll play less, with more chance to recover, and arguably could bring their best to the England camp.

I disagree massively with the additional recovery argument. The step up from even the Prem to international is substantial, let alone the Championship. Given Eddie has shown that he barely regards Prem form as massively important in his selections, I can't imagine he would want some of his key players having a relative armchair ride in the Championship then needing to step up to international intensity


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