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So... Ruiz vs Joshua II - How Will It Go??

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Post by Mr Bounce on Tue 03 Dec 2019, 5:24 pm

So the biggest heavyweight boxing upset in years gets its re-run this weekend. How do we all think it's going to go? Does Ruiz have AJ's number? Was it a blip? Does AJ have a better battle plan? Or is he "done" at the top table?

Here's how I see it: AJ had spent ages preparing for the massive cheating frame of Miller, and instead got a guy he thought he could easily thump out of there. He didn't do his homework. What he didn't take into consideration was that not only could Ruiz Jr bang a bit, but his boxing ability was much underrated, especially in the close exchanges. AJ knocked him down and when he went in for the kill, he got careless and forgot about useful stuff such as defence. Once Ruiz landed THAT punch, Joshua was scrambled and it was no real surprise that he couldn't recover.

One punch can change anything in heavyweight boxing - ask Luis Ortiz. In my eyes Joshua will have been working heavily on his defence and boxing from range. We all know that Joshua can bang quite a bit, he just has to use the right arsenal. He's done well to invoke the knowledge of Wladimir Klitschko, a master of fighting at range whilst protecting his suspect chin. I am expecting a long range fight from Joshua, keeping Ruiz's shorter frame at bay for longer periods, shoving the jab in his face and frustrating him. If it all goes according to plan, I think this bout could end up being like Lewis vs Tua, with the shorter fighter unable to put a big punch on his taller and rangier opponent. Don't be surprised to see AJ playing it safe - with good reason.

Ruiz of course will want to repeat what's happened before and may try to rush in and land one after a clinch. He can't win from range but he can certainly win a firefight - they both can. It's a fascinating rematch. Each fighter has something to prove. My only worry is that Ruiz has taken Joshua lightly as it may end in a painful early bath for him.

My prediction is that AJ will avenge his loss and in some style, which of course means that Ruiz will KO him again...  Whistle  boxing

What do you reckon??

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Tue 03 Dec 2019, 5:50 pm

Douglas v Holyfield...

Previously underachieving non entity reverts to type and rolls over after having one great night..

But still like Douglas he will have plenty of bucks to enjoy after..


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Post by Herman Jaeger on Tue 03 Dec 2019, 5:59 pm

Underestimating the Mexican pride there a bit Truss. And if he wins carves out a little niche for himself in the history of the sport

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Post by rapidringsroad on Tue 03 Dec 2019, 7:44 pm

I am going with you Mr Bounce, I think Joshua will do like Patterson did to Johannsen in the late 50s and get an impressive win. As to what he does after that, I'm making no predictions only that Wilder will stop Fury if they ever meet again. I have been wrong before though, so I'm not betting the farm on it.

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Post by Soul Requiem on Tue 03 Dec 2019, 8:17 pm

AJ easy within 4 rounds.

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Post by smashingstormcrow on Wed 04 Dec 2019, 11:09 am

AJ to fight conservatively and defensively... Ruiz to repeatedly try to get inside, but AJ won't engage. Similar to the Parker fight. AJ controls the ring and jabs his way to a 4-5 point margin.

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Post by rodders on Thu 05 Dec 2019, 11:49 am

smashingstormcrow wrote:AJ to fight conservatively and defensively... Ruiz to repeatedly try to get inside, but AJ won't engage. Similar to the Parker fight. AJ controls the ring and jabs his way to a 4-5 point margin.

Yes I think for all the talk from Hearn and Joshua about KOing Ruiz, I think the weight loss points to Joshua's team planning for a 12 round fight.

I think they will try and keep the fight at distance and not engage due to Ruiz as he has the advantage with his fast hands and possibly better chin....

I think either Joshua on points or a Ruiz KO if he can connect.
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Post by Steffan on Thu 05 Dec 2019, 3:48 pm

While I would love Ruiz to beat Joshua again I think it will be revenge for AJ this time

But Ruiz in good shape so hopefully he can knock him out

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Post by EdWoodjr on Thu 05 Dec 2019, 6:29 pm

Ruiz by KO or stoppage @ 5/2 ? Worth a tenner.

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Post by Mochyn du on Thu 05 Dec 2019, 6:46 pm

Whilst everyone is predicting a long range jab fest by Joshua, I'm not all that convinced about his jab. I was surprised how he hardly used it in the first fight and kept his left arm so low. He gets away with it against slower opponents, but Ruiz is mobile with fast hands. Could see another upset if Ruiz hasn't enjoyed the good life too much since the first fight.

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Post by Mr Bounce on Fri 06 Dec 2019, 2:09 pm

https://fightnews.com/ruiz-outweighs-joshua-by-46-pounds/63122
Have to say I am with Truss. 280+lbs at his height has no place in a title fight. As Hagler said: "It's difficult to get up to go training when you're sleeping in silk sheets"

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Post by TwisT on Fri 06 Dec 2019, 2:10 pm

Thoughts on Ruiz coming in at 15lbs heavier than the last fight? I thought he would be between 18-19st

Is he hoping that one punch is all he needs, so trying to get as much power behind it as possible?

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Post by Steffan on Fri 06 Dec 2019, 4:27 pm

Come on Ruiz. You can do it again

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Post by No name Bertie on Fri 06 Dec 2019, 6:39 pm

Tragedy struck following the weigh in - Ruiz mistook Joshua for a burrito.

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Post by Mochyn du on Fri 06 Dec 2019, 8:40 pm

I never saw the weigh in. Looks like Ruiz just dined out on his win, literally. Joshua by one sided 5th round TKO.

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Post by No name Bertie on Fri 06 Dec 2019, 9:14 pm

A few people are saying that Ruiz doesn't respect Joshua, thinks he is a robot, and thinks he will be able to walk through Joshua's punches to knock him out again. Ruiz says in the first fight he didn't see the punch that floored him (a left hook) but it didn't affect his senses. Then afterwards took Joshua's best punch (the right) which he did see and was able to quickly shake off to land his punches and it was his left hook that scrambled Joshua balance and then a right hook on the top of Joshua's head that floored him for the first time. After that Ruiz was in control of the fight.

However coming in over a stone heavier for this fight is very disappointing and against everything that Ruiz said in the lead up to this fight - that he will be training harder than ever and will likely come in a few pounds lighter than in the previous fight.

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Post by Just John on Sat 07 Dec 2019, 9:47 pm

AJ boxing at range, being cautious, but totally in control. Ruiz being made to look extremely ordinary, and getting frustrated. AJ at least eight or nine rounds up atm, just needs to keep behind the jab, and finish the job

Dull fight, but tactically a masterclass from AJ.

Unanimous decision victory for AJ

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Post by Soul Requiem on Sat 07 Dec 2019, 10:11 pm

To quote George Foreman, he just made an ordinary fighter look like an ordinary fighter.

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Post by LondonTiger on Sat 07 Dec 2019, 10:12 pm

Just John wrote:AJ boxing at range, being cautious, but totally in control. Ruiz being made to look extremely ordinary, and getting frustrated. AJ at least eight or nine rounds up atm, just needs to keep behind the jab, and finish the job

Dull fight, but tactically a masterclass from AJ.

Unanimous decision victory for AJ

Poor from Ruiz, dominant from Joshua.

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Post by rapidringsroad on Sat 07 Dec 2019, 10:17 pm

A win is a win and even if it wasn't an exciting fight it was a convincing win. What now for Joshua?

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Post by Steffan on Sat 07 Dec 2019, 10:22 pm

rapidringsroad wrote:A win is a win and even if it wasn't an exciting fight it was a convincing win. What now for Joshua?
Finish the Trilogy with Ruiz

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Post by No name Bertie on Sat 07 Dec 2019, 10:37 pm

Ruiz has a granite chin and cannot be knocked out (at least by Joshua).
Joshua has a vulnerable chin and can be knocked out.

Joshua's game plan was to slim down, jab with a few one punch power shots, and move.
Ruiz's game plan ... was to knock out Joshua again ... but then why add another stone to his already lardy self?

I would like to see Ruiz fight Deontay - granite chin versus freakish one punch power.  I would rate Ruiz chances of beating Deontay, but only if he properly trains and loses weight.

Well done to Joshua he has improved his boxing skills, ringcraft, energy management and stamina.
Unprofessional and a wasted opportunity from Ruiz for adding an extra stone to his already excessive weight.  Maybe he is content with his one win wonder and the multi-millions of pounds he has earned for these two fights with Joshua.

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Post by Mr Bounce on Sat 07 Dec 2019, 11:11 pm

Joshua had a game plan of jab, move, occasional power shot, repeat. Ruiz had a game plan of EAT EVERYTHING whilst "training", then try to hit Joshua on the top of the head in a clinch. And that was it.

AJ looked gunshy (with good reason I guess), but got the job done without looking desperately vulnerable or particularly impressive. Is the WBO his next mandatory?? If so, that's Usyk, which could be interesting. He won't outbox him...

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Post by Steffan on Sun 08 Dec 2019, 12:21 am

It wasn't the best fight to be fair but that's how it goes

Imagine all the English and Mexicans who paid to go over and watch it

They can't even have a beer afterwards to forget about it

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Post by Atila on Sun 08 Dec 2019, 1:31 am

I didn't see the fight but congrats to Joshua, I'm glad he won. Ruiz, should be ashamed of himself. He was fat in their first fight and fatter this time. Obviously he's lacking something in the discipline department. Now he says he wants a third fight. What guarantees do we have that he's not going to show up even fatter the next time?

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Post by No name Bertie on Sun 08 Dec 2019, 7:37 am

In his post fight press conference and in defeat Ruiz said he was proud he was able to eat Joshua's best punches.

But he feels he maybe partied too hard, didn't take this fight and Joshua too seriously, started his training too late, didn't listen to his trainer or his dad, did too much of his training on his own, should have kept his weight down.  His trainer Manny Robles was sat next to him and was stony faced.

Ruiz said his game plan was to knock Joshua out, but found Joshua moved too quickly, and his extra weight and lack of fitness meant he couldn't keep up with Joshua, and when he did land - it would only be for a couple of punches, and not the volley of punches he normally delivers.

Joshua in this fight had loads of energy, he was bouncing around all the time on his toes, his movement was great.  If he could match that movement with a little more skill in the exchanges and a little more intensity in the engagement then he would become the complete package.  I don't think Ruiz is the type of opponent that can be knocked out, too much of a thick skull, granite chin, a bull neck.  That's why I think a Ruiz vs Deontay fight would be intriguing.

For Joshua I would like to see him fight Ortiz next but he has to defend his WBO belt against Usyk (WBO mandatory challenger) and he has to defend his IBF belt against Pulev (IBF mandatory challenger) or face losing them.  I think Joshua would have too much athleticism and power for Usyk at this stage of Usyk's fledgling heavyweight career.

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Post by Soul Requiem on Sun 08 Dec 2019, 1:13 pm

Hopefully that's the end of Ruiz at world level, have no time at all for guys who can't properly prepare for the biggest fight of their career. Losing is one thing but eating and partying your career away is something else.

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Post by Just John on Sun 08 Dec 2019, 1:28 pm

Agree, Ruiz has put paid to any kind of trilogy. Ruiz’ conditioning was embarrassing, showcasing a lack of responsibility, and completely disrespected the position of being the HW champion. Looking back on it, AJ did a job, but Ruiz is a complete bum, who should never of been given this platform in the first place. Wouldn’t surprise me to see Ruiz retire, given the pay day he’s received.

As for AJ, I’d expect Hearn to start milking his champion again. The route looks like the IBF defence against, Pulev, and then, Usyk. No chance Hearn puts Joshua anywhere near Wilder or Fury. They might even sneak in Dillian Whyte again, just as a fall back option.

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Post by Soul Requiem on Sun 08 Dec 2019, 1:39 pm

I don't think fighting Fury is any worry for AJ, the lack of knockout power makes him an attractive proposal and I think he's good enough technically to get through enough to force a stoppage. Wilder is there to be knocked out but he can end things with one punch so think that will be left to fester for a while.

Pulev and Usyk next year followed by one of the above I think is an acceptable path to take, not a lot can be done about mandatory defences.

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Post by Atila on Sun 08 Dec 2019, 2:49 pm

Worse than Ruiz cheating himself, he cheated the ticket paying public and the Saudis who put up an enormous amount of cash to stage this fight. He's got a name now, so I'm sure that won't be the last we hear of him but if he wants a third fight, he should have to earn it.

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Post by Herman Jaeger on Sun 08 Dec 2019, 5:12 pm

How many rounds do you think Joshua would last with Dubois?

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Post by Soul Requiem on Sun 08 Dec 2019, 5:16 pm

Herman Jaeger wrote:How many rounds do you think Joshua would last with Dubois?

How ever many rounds it takes him to knock him out.

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Post by Herman Jaeger on Sun 08 Dec 2019, 5:35 pm

I’d be surprised if it went past four could even be a demolition job first two rounds

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Post by Soul Requiem on Sun 08 Dec 2019, 6:08 pm

Bit foolish to think that Dubois can live with AJ based on beating a bunch of quite literal journeyman.

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Post by Herman Jaeger on Sun 08 Dec 2019, 6:13 pm

Bit foolish to call Gvozdyk CLEARLY the best light heavyweight in the world

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Post by Soul Requiem on Sun 08 Dec 2019, 6:23 pm

If you can find where I said that then be my guest until then ssshhh.

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Post by Herman Jaeger on Sun 08 Dec 2019, 6:29 pm

I think Usyk will get to him first

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Post by Herman Jaeger on Sun 08 Dec 2019, 8:07 pm

Soul Requiem wrote:Bit foolish to think that Dubois can live with AJ based on beating a bunch of quite literal journeyman.

Do you fancy me?

You literally can’t leave me alone

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Post by Herman Jaeger on Sun 08 Dec 2019, 8:22 pm

what A weirdo

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Post by Soul Requiem on Sun 08 Dec 2019, 9:47 pm

A weirdo is someone who corrects you? Or is a weirdo someone who replies to themselves?

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Post by Steffan on Sun 08 Dec 2019, 10:40 pm

Herman Jaeger wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:Bit foolish to think that Dubois can live with AJ based on beating a bunch of quite literal journeyman.

Do you fancy me?

You literally can’t leave me alone
Do you want him to fancy you?

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Post by Herman Jaeger on Sun 08 Dec 2019, 10:43 pm

Sorry to disappoint you Stefan but no

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Post by Derbymanc on Mon 09 Dec 2019, 9:37 am

Why can't you just stick to the bloody boxing.

Great performance by AJ, had a gameplan and stuck to it. You don't have to knock out every opponent and when your facing someone that your not sure can be knocked out but who can definitely hurt you then you have to change it up. Movement looked good, didn't gas at all and Ruiz has only himself to blame. Should have thrown everything at Joshua in the 10th or 11th (last round is nearly always too late), he might have knackered himself out completely but at least he could say he left it all in there.

Dubois couldn't touch AJ at the moment, I know it's tough for the HW's to get decent fights as the talent pool is slim but let him step up before we even have that conversation.
Not interested in a trilogy with Ruiz Jr, as someone else said who knows what state he'd come in at.
Fury and Wilder won't be done yet as they're fighting in Feb (apparently) but both are fights that have to be made in the future if he really wants to cement his legacy. Quite happy for now to see AJ face his mandatories and hopefully get one of the big fights halfway through or near the end of next year.

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Post by smashingstormcrow on Mon 09 Dec 2019, 10:44 am

The fight went exactly as I thought it would, and I thought it was a strong, mature, professional performance. I think the lighter weight suited him, he moved fairly well (although poor head movement compared with Fury, for instance), and seemed calm and fresh throughout. Of course we would have all liked to see him follow up some of his power shots, but realistically I never expected that to happen. This fight was all about rediscovering his boxing brain, restoring his confidence, being smart and not letting his opponent into the fight at all. On those criteria, it was note-perfect. Couldn't have asked for more.

I hope he doesn't put the weight back on, because I suspect that he still carries plenty of power. Timing and speed are just as important for finding that KO punch.

The obvious questions... would fighting on the outside, move-jab-clinch work against Wilder? Maybe, but it would be a very tense twelve rounds. We pretty much know it wouldn't work against Fury.. would AJ be able to turn into the aggressor? Cut off the ring and force the fight?

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Post by Soul Requiem on Mon 09 Dec 2019, 3:13 pm

Pulev would be the perfect fight for AJ right now, carries enough of a name to make it reasonably marketable, doesn't possess knockout power and is fairly durable. Not at all interested in a Usyk fight, the size difference is such that I'd fully expect a blow out within three rounds, he doesn't have the power of a Haye to make the Heavyweights cautious.

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Post by Herman Jaeger on Mon 09 Dec 2019, 3:31 pm

Very dangerous fight Usyk for Joshua they were never going to fight him before Pulev Usyk could make him look very ordinary

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Post by Mr Bounce on Mon 09 Dec 2019, 4:48 pm

I think the trouble with Usyk is we haven't seen how he deals with a big heavyweight shot. It won't be like taking a shot from Gassiev or Breidis - it's going to hurt. I have no doubt of Usyk's boxing ability, but at some point he's going to take one on the chin or temple. And we don't know what will happen.

Pulev will be first (he's been waiting for longer than Whyte FFS!) and I really don't think it'll be too much of a hardship for AJ. I just hope that the WBA don't try and force Trevor Bryan on us...

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Post by smashingstormcrow on Tue 10 Dec 2019, 10:51 am

I don't think Usyk is really dangerous for Joshua. Usyk probably won't have much luck fighting him at range, and he probably won't want to fight him on the inside either - with his presumed lack of power, and danger of getting overwhelmed and exhausted in the clinches.



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Post by Herman Jaeger on Tue 10 Dec 2019, 11:46 am

Will Usyk be big enough at heavyweight against the giants that’s the interesting question

Who can say they know the answer to that but he’s a welcome addition to the division

I thought Joshua looked a little uncertain on the inside a couple of times against Ruiz and Ruiz is no inside fighter.  As for at range well isn’t Usyk supposed to be quicker and slicker than Joshua so why is it a given that Joshua outboxes him?

Let’s just hope we get to see the fights and all in quick succession

Dubious probably beats em all though

Herman Jaeger

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Post by Soul Requiem on Tue 10 Dec 2019, 11:55 am

Herman Jaeger wrote:Will Usyk be big enough at heavyweight against the giants that’s the interesting question

Who can say they know the answer to that but he’s a welcome addition to the division

I thought Joshua looked a little uncertain on the inside a couple of times against Ruiz and Ruiz is no inside fighter.  As for at range well isn’t Usyk supposed to be quicker and slicker than Joshua so why is it a given that Joshua outboxes him?

Let’s just hope we get to see the fights and all in quick succession

Dubious probably beats em all though

I do enjoy your blind appraisal of fighters sometimes, have you actually watched Dubois this time and if so which opponent did he look so good against?

Soul Requiem

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