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Who will take over the Labour party

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Who will take over the Labour party Empty Who will take over the Labour party

Post by Muscular-mouse on Sun 15 Dec 2019, 1:54 pm

The favourite is sir Keir Starmer. Others in the mix are Emily Thornberry and Angela Raynor, Rebecca Long-Bailey , .

I think Clive Lewis would be a good choice, he was in the army before and seems very genuine. Out of those putting their names into the hat I would go with Starmer. A well spoken modern politician who is very similar to Corbyn in his policies but very different so people won't view him as corbyn mk2.

Sadiq Khan's name has been mentioned but whilst he is hugely popular in London I don't think his support spreads out to the rest of the UK. As painful as it sounds as this is 2019, I think his religion would stop people voting for him. You only have to go onto his twitter to see the racist abuse he suffers daily.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/sadiq-khan-reads-out-racist-tweets-in-powerful-video-a3788486.html

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Post by Duty281 on Sun 15 Dec 2019, 2:31 pm

As far as I know, only Members of the Westminster Parliament are eligible to be Labour leader, so that rules out Khan straight away.

There’s only two people who I can see having a positive impact for Labour - Starmer and Cooper. But the next Labour leader will almost certainly be a non-London woman, so that rules out Starmer, and Cooper is unlikely to run.

So it will likely be either Long-Bailey or Rayner, both utterly dismal choices that personify how low the Labour Party has sunk. Nandy could be a good outside bet, as she fits the criteria whilst always talking a good game about folks in t’North.

Jess Phillips has also been touted, but given she’s disliked by most of the membership this appears to be very unlikely.

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Post by Muscular-mouse on Sun 15 Dec 2019, 6:48 pm

Duty281 wrote:As far as I know, only Members of the Westminster Parliament are eligible to be Labour leader, so that rules out Khan straight away.

There’s only two people who I can see having a positive impact for Labour - Starmer and Cooper. But the next Labour leader will almost certainly be a non-London woman, so that rules out Starmer, and Cooper is unlikely to run.

So it will likely be either Long-Bailey or Rayner, both utterly dismal choices that personify how low the Labour Party has sunk. Nandy could be a good outside bet, as she fits the criteria whilst always talking a good game about folks in t’North.

Jess Phillips has also been touted, but given she’s disliked by most of the membership this appears to be very unlikely.

Starmer is the bookies favourite. I think whichever one that wins there would be a media character assassination campaign against them just like the one against Brown, Miliband and Corbyn.

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Post by Luke on Mon 16 Dec 2019, 10:25 am

Depends which way the party want to go.
If they want a moderate who can appeal to the centralists and more floating voters, whilst not losing any more of there core support than personally Stamer is that man.
If they want to carry on from Corbyn than can see it being Phillips or Rayner.
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Post by JDizzle on Mon 16 Dec 2019, 7:51 pm

They’d pick Phillips to carry on from Corbyn?! She hates his guts!

Long Bailey and Rayner have cut a deal so RLB runs for leader and Rayner for deputy. It’s easy to say that RLB is the continuity candidate and will cruise in cause of how left wing the membership is, but for all his faults, Corbyn knew how to fire up the membership - not sure RLB has that ability... Might be a foolhardy prediction, but don’t see her as the clear cut favourite the bookies do.

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Post by Samo on Tue 17 Dec 2019, 6:28 am

If they elect RLB they can kiss goodbye to any chance at winning an election for atleast another decade. The party needs a new direction because this one hasnt worked. Starmer or Phillips for me.

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Post by Duty281 on Tue 17 Dec 2019, 9:47 am

JDizzle wrote:They’d pick Phillips to carry on from Corbyn?! She hates his guts!

Long Bailey and Rayner have cut a deal so RLB runs for leader and Rayner for deputy. It’s easy to say that RLB is the continuity candidate and will cruise in cause of how left wing the membership is, but for all his faults, Corbyn knew how to fire up the membership - not sure RLB has that ability... Might be a foolhardy prediction, but don’t see her as the clear cut favourite the bookies do.

Yes I saw that. With the membership full of deluded Corbyn supporters, RLB/Rayner are going to be hard to stop. Will guarantee Labour out of office for another decade if it happens...could even end the Labour Party as a whole.

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Tue 17 Dec 2019, 9:50 am

I like Jess Phillips and at least know of a few Tory voters who find her honest, refreshing and the kind of politician who would make them consider voting Labour

But the Momentum Mentals have found pictures of her in conversation with Rees-Mogg and decided she's a Tory

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Post by Soul Requiem on Tue 17 Dec 2019, 9:56 am

Duty281 wrote:
JDizzle wrote:They’d pick Phillips to carry on from Corbyn?! She hates his guts!

Long Bailey and Rayner have cut a deal so RLB runs for leader and Rayner for deputy. It’s easy to say that RLB is the continuity candidate and will cruise in cause of how left wing the membership is, but for all his faults, Corbyn knew how to fire up the membership - not sure RLB has that ability... Might be a foolhardy prediction, but don’t see her as the clear cut favourite the bookies do.

Yes I saw that. With the membership full of deluded Corbyn supporters, RLB/Rayner are going to be hard to stop. Will guarantee Labour out of office for another decade if it happens...could even end the Labour Party as a whole.

Johnson will fancy his chances of following in Thatchers footsteps and being PM for a whole decade.

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Post by BamBam on Tue 17 Dec 2019, 10:08 am

I'd like to see Starmer or Phillips come through as leader, but would lean towards Starmer. Once this Brexit nonsense has gone through, I think Starmer is the man to take apart Johnson's bluster on a weekly basis at PMQs - the way he ripped Steve Barclay a new one during one of the Brexit debates has stuck with me.

A lot of people seem to be saying that he's too London and won't energise the northern base, but the northerners voted for Johnson so that can't be their only criteria. If Labour had a leader tearing strips off the PM every week, it would surely energise all potential Labour voters

I don't expect it to happen though, the left will just vote through one of their own, the thought of Long-Bailey being the leader of the opposition is quite terrifying but she's the bookies favourite

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Post by BamBam on Tue 17 Dec 2019, 10:10 am

Muscular-mouse wrote:
Duty281 wrote:As far as I know, only Members of the Westminster Parliament are eligible to be Labour leader, so that rules out Khan straight away.

There’s only two people who I can see having a positive impact for Labour - Starmer and Cooper. But the next Labour leader will almost certainly be a non-London woman, so that rules out Starmer, and Cooper is unlikely to run.

So it will likely be either Long-Bailey or Rayner, both utterly dismal choices that personify how low the Labour Party has sunk. Nandy could be a good outside bet, as she fits the criteria whilst always talking a good game about folks in t’North.

Jess Phillips has also been touted, but given she’s disliked by most of the membership this appears to be very unlikely.

Starmer is the bookies favourite. I think whichever one that wins there would be a media character assassination campaign against them just like the one against Brown, Miliband and Corbyn.

Definitely right on the media. Might as well let the editors of the Sun and Mail pick the leader, they might have a short period of leeway in that case

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Fri 03 Jan 2020, 12:00 pm

Phillips.....Regarded as a Narcissist...Loved or hated. No chance..

Cooper....Too Vanilla..Battered by Corbyn in 2015....No chance.

Thornberry...Struggle to get on the ballot...Her window of opportunity has passed...All over the place trying to get traction...No chance.

Nandy....Won't be forgiven by lefties for running Smith's campaign in 2016....Slight chance if Starmer falters and there is a bigger than expected argument for a Woman non lefty.

Bailey....Should be hers to lose but she is a real charisma-less lightweight...Finish 2nd if Lavery can't qualify.

Lavery....Finish 2nd if he gets on the ballot....Adored by the left but has to win on the first ballot and won't...Bailey will split the lefty vote.

Starmer....Should win...Acceptable with non-pure lefties and is a Centrist...

Lewis....Dark horse..

Starmer
Lavery
Bailey
Nandy
Lewis
Phillips..

Not sure Cooper will run..

Rayner or Butler for the Deputy slot.




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Post by lostinwales on Fri 03 Jan 2020, 1:10 pm

Cooper has dropped out already

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Fri 03 Jan 2020, 1:24 pm

Didn't know that....Maybe her time will come..

Losing two Leader fights in a row wouldn't be good.

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Post by BamBam on Fri 03 Jan 2020, 3:51 pm

Apparently Dan Jarvis is going to declare he's running, always thought he comes across well

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Post by Muscular-mouse on Sat 29 Feb 2020, 8:56 pm

Duty281 wrote:As far as I know, only Members of the Westminster Parliament are eligible to be Labour leader, so that rules out Khan straight away.

There’s only two people who I can see having a positive impact for Labour - Starmer and Cooper. But the next Labour leader will almost certainly be a non-London woman, so that rules out Starmer, and Cooper is unlikely to run.

So it will likely be either Long-Bailey or Rayner, both utterly dismal choices that personify how low the Labour Party has sunk. Nandy could be a good outside bet, as she fits the criteria whilst always talking a good game about folks in t’North.

Jess Phillips has also been touted, but given she’s disliked by most of the membership this appears to be very unlikely.

Looks like it is Starmer as I predicted.

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Post by SecretFly on Wed 11 Mar 2020, 8:38 am

Who DID take over the Labour Party?



Oh still pondering? March. Three months and counting. Milking this a bit aren't they.
Oh well, free few months extra publicity for the party - two birds with one stone, not to be overly sexist about it.

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Post by dyrewolfe on Wed 25 Mar 2020, 9:14 am

If anyone could have got me to switch allegiances it would have been Lisa Nandy. Seemed very down-to-earth. Talked a lot of sense...wasn't patronising or antagonistic, (or simply deluded), as many of the other candidates were. Recognised the need for the party to make some serious changes. Didn't peddle that ridiculous line that most people thought their last manifesto was great and it was Brexit's fault they lost.

Starmer will just be Corbyn Mk II.
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Post by lostinwales on Wed 25 Mar 2020, 10:54 am

dyrewolfe wrote:If anyone could have got me to switch allegiances it would have been Lisa Nandy. Seemed very down-to-earth. Talked a lot of sense...wasn't patronising or antagonistic, (or simply deluded), as many of the other candidates were. Recognised the need for the party to make some serious changes. Didn't peddle that ridiculous line that most people thought their last manifesto was great and it was Brexit's fault they lost.

Starmer will just be Corbyn Mk II.

Corbyn Mk II is is RLB (or 'Wrong Daily' as she's sometimes known). Same backers. Same near anonymity in everything she does.

Starmer has a brain and as a former attorney general has actual experience and achievements outside of politics. No idea how he'll turn out but these things alone gives some cause for hope.

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Post by dyrewolfe on Thu 26 Mar 2020, 9:23 am

lostinwales wrote:
dyrewolfe wrote:If anyone could have got me to switch allegiances it would have been Lisa Nandy. Seemed very down-to-earth. Talked a lot of sense...wasn't patronising or antagonistic, (or simply deluded), as many of the other candidates were. Recognised the need for the party to make some serious changes. Didn't peddle that ridiculous line that most people thought their last manifesto was great and it was Brexit's fault they lost.

Starmer will just be Corbyn Mk II.

Corbyn Mk II is is RLB (or 'Wrong Daily' as she's sometimes known). Same backers. Same near anonymity in everything she does.

Starmer has a brain and as a former attorney general has actual experience and achievements outside of politics. No idea how he'll turn out but these things alone gives some cause for hope.

Well the Blairs were both in the legal profession, so there is some precedent.

But however smart he might be, Starmer just doesn't seem to have much personality IMO. He might be a great leader / organiser, but he doesn't seem the type to connect with traditional Labour voters. Maybe he'd try to swing the party closer to the centre and grab as many Tory voters as possible?
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Post by No name Bertie on Thu 26 Mar 2020, 1:48 pm

Isn't this going to be decided by the labour membership - the millions of people who joined Labour after paying £3 (maybe that has gone up now) that made Corbyn leader.

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Post by No name Bertie on Thu 26 Mar 2020, 1:55 pm

ps What happened to the Liberal Democrats at the last election?  They were supposed to do well and the early polls indicated that they would do well and then it all fell apart.  Jo Swinson the party leader had been touted as a great party leader but things went wrong during the 2019 general election campaign and she lost her seat.

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Post by dyrewolfe on Tue 31 Mar 2020, 11:49 am

No name Bertie wrote:ps What happened to the Liberal Democrats at the last election?  They were supposed to do well and the early polls indicated that they would do well and then it all fell apart.  Jo Swinson the party leader had been touted as a great party leader but things went wrong during the 2019 general election  campaign and she lost her seat.

Just goes to show that being popular doesn't necessarily make you a good leader (though obviously there are exceptions - again Blair springs to mind).

Swinson never struck me as leadership material. Just another of those wet-behind-the-ears idealistic types. Not sure they have any good candidates at the moment.

Starmer is probably Labour's best hope. He's certainly got the intellect, but how savvy a political operator is he and can he connect with the voters? Nandy certainly comes across as pragmatic and a people person...but has she got the thick skin and determination to survive the pressure of being a party leader?

Politics is full of paradoxes.

You have to be single-minded & thick-skinned, as well as knowing how to operate in Westminster, to survive in the job. You also have to be prepared to compromise. You have to catch voters' imaginations, get them to listen to you and give them reasons to give you their vote, while also not promising more than you can deliver. You have to be empathetic and sensitive towards the public, while also being ruthless and prepared to get dirty towards your opponents. You also have to be prepared to make tough, unpopular decisions.

Thats a lot of stuff to juggle...and very few people do a good job of it.
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Post by MrInvisible on Tue 31 Mar 2020, 12:34 pm

Assuming it is indeed Starmer, I think when he is presented as leader next week, due to the wall-to-wall coronavirus coverage he will not suffer the same immediate character assassination that Miliband and especially Corbyn had from day 1 in much of the media on what were much slower news days when the media attack dogs could be unleashed.

Starmer's natural gravitas and serious demeanour is actually a better look for a leader of opposition than a charismatic charmer (which he isn't) at present.  Therefore he'll get the chance to grow into the role on his terms and electorate can see him first without as many pre-formed perceptions that Corbyn had to contend with.  Of course, Corbyn did have a lot of baggage.  I'm sure that people are already trying to get as much dirt as possible from Starmer's time as public prosecutor as possible.

In policy terms, I would like to see Starmer strongly making the case for government to amend their current dogmatic Brexit position in light of the forthcoming global slump, fighting for a transition period extension, protection for EU citizens (especially given that many of our NHS heroes are from EU countries!).  Given that Sunak has turned overnight by necessity into an interventionist free-spending chancellor, there is no need for Starmer to jettison the last Labour manifesto (the government nationalised the railways the other week!), but to trim some of the excesses from it.

Onto Swinson, she actually had potential to grow into her role over the longer term, but showed she was out of her depth with the hubris in 2019 and made a catastrophic error of judgement in allowing the government a general election on their terms, when she was still v inexperienced in the job.

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Post by Duty281 on Tue 31 Mar 2020, 2:20 pm

The problem for the next Labour leader is that they won't be in the position to fight for anything. Whether it's a transition extension or state-owned broadband. They have no leverage. They're vastly outnumbered in Parliament, so they have no power over the Tories there. They have atrocious polling numbers, so the Tories won't feel pressured to cave into any Labour demands or 'borrow' any Labour policies. They have nothing to fight with.

What the next Labour leader has to do is restore respectability to the party, because the disastrous tenure of Corbyn has dragged it to the gutter, eliminate (or at the very least, get control of) the extremist elements of the party, and build a sensible costed manifesto for the next General Election. Oh and build a proper shadow cabinet so it isn't filled with dismal people like McDonnell, Abbott and Rayner.

Labour will not win the next GE, but they have to build the ground work and foundations for giving the Tories a serious run in 2029. That starts with winning back council seats at a local level from 2021 onwards (Corbyn's tenure saw around 400 Labour councillors lost and around 13 councils lost control of).

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Post by No name Bertie on Wed 01 Apr 2020, 4:31 pm

Jeremy Corbyn was on the fringes of the labour party and when he took over Labour he took it to the fringes. Ed Miliband just turned out to be useless as a leader - he was nothing like his father nor his brother.

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Post by JDizzle on Wed 01 Apr 2020, 10:55 pm

I voted for Nandy in the end, with Starmer as second preference. It was a fairly uninspiring choice, but I feel Nandy is a better communicator than Starmer which tipped things her way for me.

Starmer looks likely to win though, and there is enough talent in the Labour Party still in Cooper, Nandy, Benn and a few others to put together a decent top table. No doubt he will have to ‘reach out’ to the left - but as long as that is only a position for RLB, and people like Burgon and slavery left far away that would be fine.

The biggest issues for Starmer to solve early should be fairly slam dunk issues - the biggest issues people had were the leader (sorted), Brexit (KS has made the right noises about just saying the argument is done, time to move on) and anti semitism - should be relatively straightforward to deal with being as he doesn’t tacitly encourage AS.


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Post by dyrewolfe on Mon 06 Apr 2020, 1:44 pm

I would have gone for Nandy too.

But they're saddled with Starmer now...who sounds like a Corbyn clone, with his apparent preference for nationalising industries, anti-Brexit stance (will fight to keep us in a customs union) and other very left-wing leanings.

A bit surprising as I thought he'd be more of a centrist. Think he'll come up against the same problems his predecessor did...and I don't see him getting people chanting his name at Glastonbury (when that returns).
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Post by Pr4wn on Mon 06 Apr 2020, 3:03 pm

Being anti-Brexit is not inherently left wing. It's also well known in the party that Starmer is far more of a centrist than Corbyn and his crew, hence them plumping for RLB who isn't even in the shadow cabinet.

Not sure what you're on about tbh.

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Post by Crimey on Mon 06 Apr 2020, 3:09 pm

It seems Keir Starmer has found himself in a weird position where supports on the left think he's basically Tony Blair and those in the centre think he's a younger Jeremy Corbyn.

I think he's quite clearly somewhere in the middle. As somebody who signed up as a member (always a Labour voter) to support Corbyn, I'm reasonably happy with Starmer who should do a better job of getting support from centre parts of the party and the country, whilst still pushing a left-wing agenda.

I'm concerned, based on the initial reactions, that we're going to get another Corbyn where in-fighting leads to it all falling apart.

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Post by Pr4wn on Mon 06 Apr 2020, 3:12 pm

I'm looking forward to PMQs again.

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Post by Duty281 on Mon 06 Apr 2020, 4:13 pm

dyrewolfe wrote:I would have gone for Nandy too.

But they're saddled with Starmer now...who sounds like a Corbyn clone, with his apparent preference for nationalising industries, anti-Brexit stance (will fight to keep us in a customs union) and other very left-wing leanings.

A bit surprising as I thought he'd be more of a centrist. Think he'll come up against the same problems his predecessor did...and I don't see him getting people chanting his name at Glastonbury (when that returns).

RLB was the Corbyn clone choice, Starmer is quite different and is closer to the centre than Corbyn. One aspect of Starmer's leadership that will be interesting is how he deals/copes/works with the Corbyn-cultist-momentum wing of the party.

Pr4wn wrote:hence them plumping for RLB who isn't even in the shadow cabinet.

RLB is in the shadow cabinet for education. Ed Miliband also makes a return.

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Post by Pr4wn on Mon 06 Apr 2020, 4:15 pm

Ah, I'm out of date.

Either way, definitely not what her or the Corbyn camp were hoping for.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Tue 07 Apr 2020, 11:22 am

A very sensible Cabinet from Keir Starmer....

Got rid of some of the Left wing firebrands but hasn't replaced them with any of the People that spent four years undermining the Last leader........Vile vacuous types like Jess Phillips have missed out and rightly so...Streeting..Coyle..Duffield types miss out too..

Both the left and right are feeling a little sore but at least he is trying to forge a semblance of Unity..

Very Ed Miliband esque.....

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Post by lostinwales on Wed 08 Apr 2020, 11:11 am

At least Starmer is clever in a way that Corbyn never was. At least Starmer has achieved things outside of politics (and comes from a much more authentic 'working class' background).

Long way to go and much to prove- but good signs. More talent in the shadow cabinet too.

Note the comments from the leaders of the Jewish community that he's achieved more in dealing with antisemitism in 4 days than the previous bunch in 4 years

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Post by MrInvisible on Wed 08 Apr 2020, 11:54 am

A couple of minor quibbles aside - would have liked to have seen Clive Lewis and Stella Creasy (both from different wings of party and have a lot to offer) included in cabinet, and Long-Bailey as Environment Secretary with her good work on the New Green Deal, would have been nice, this is a decent well-balanced shadow cabinet.

Let's see how Starmer does, as it's v early days (general election not due to 2024) but in his favour he passes the 'does he look like a potential prime minister' test which is important for those floating voters with only a fleeting interest in politics.

One point on the relationship between Corbyn and the Jewish community - this community like many others is not homogenous and does not speak with one voice. There are some Jewish groups who Corbyn has a v good relationship with, who strongly backed him whilst other groups from the Jewish community were attacking him and tarring him personally (unjustified in my opinion) with the anti-Semitism brush. I personally believe John Bercow's take that Corbyn doesn't have an anti-Semitic bone in his body, nor any form of racial prejudice. There was though a lack of leadership on Corbyn in dealing with the issue early on, where criticism was justified.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Wed 08 Apr 2020, 11:57 am

lostinwales wrote:At least Starmer is clever in a way that Corbyn never was. At least Starmer has achieved things outside of politics (and comes from a much more authentic 'working class' background).


Background means diddly ..Clement Attlee came from a middle class background and he brought in the welfare state and the NHS....Social housing revolution etc.

Not the background it's your principles..

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Post by lostinwales on Wed 08 Apr 2020, 12:40 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
lostinwales wrote:At least Starmer is clever in a way that Corbyn never was. At least Starmer has achieved things outside of politics (and comes from a much more authentic 'working class' background).


Background means diddly ..Clement Attlee came from a middle class background and he brought in the welfare state and the NHS....Social housing revolution etc.

Not the background it's your principles..

Yes of course - Brains and ability don't respect background at all. Don't forget Corbyn had a high quality education during which, for a change, he achieved very little. (In contrast worth checking David Lammy's background in this respect). But the 'in touch with the working class' thing around Corbyn always annoyed the hell out of me. He was always being sold as something he wasn't.

Then sometimes things were more complicated. I do think he wasn't racist, but he seemed blind to it in others and blind to how his actions could be misconstrued. I do think his leadership has been bad for the Labour party and very bad for the country. Things can only get better now he's gone.

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Post by Pr4wn on Wed 08 Apr 2020, 12:41 pm

It's also his track record.

Starmer was a barrister by the time he was 25, a QC before he turned 40 and by age 45 he was Director of Public Prosecutions and the head of the Crown Prosecution Service. Admired by his peers, hugely successful in his career, all while coming from a working class background. It matters.

The Prime Minister, on the other hand, was born into ridiculous privilege, somehow managed to get a job in journalism at the Times despite not having a background in journalism at all. He was fired from this job for dishonesty. No matter though, his connections got him a job at the Telegraph. He was also fired from the Shadow Cabinet for dishonesty.

Two completely different blokes and I'm very intrigued as to how all this might shake out.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Wed 08 Apr 2020, 2:57 pm

With the PM in hospital I imagine he will retain a good lead in the short term...Sympathy tends to lead to good approvals...

However I cannot see when the Economy shrinks alarmingly over the next few years and living standards hit the rocks how this Govt doesn't get hammered....Labour will no doubt bash Johnson hard till 2024 on his slow response to the Covid crisis as well as the Economic devastation...

In other news we have been in lockdown two and a half weeks and this is the time Italy and Spain started to plateau..

So hopefully we are coming to a crossroads..

Valid arguments made about Starmer...Interesting stuff.

Keep well..


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Post by MrInvisible on Thu 09 Apr 2020, 1:04 pm

There was a bit of mention about anti-Semitism further up the thread. Now that Ed Miliband is back and Corbyn is no longer leader it seems its OK now for right-wing press to use anti-Semitic tropes against Miliband (look, a bacon sandwich, how hilarious):

https://scramnews.com/george-osborne-evening-standard-accused-publishing-anti-semitic-cartoon/

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Thu 09 Apr 2020, 1:12 pm

To be fair, both have a hunched back, Miliband does have an ugly nose and the bacon thing is based on that picture of him eating a bacon sandwich.

It's possibly a bit unwise to hook the nose, considering, but it is a caricature.

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