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England's Winter

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Post by Duty281 on Sun 05 Jan 2020, 2:14 pm

First topic message reminder :

As per LT's original post:
New Zealand

T20 Internationals

Friday November 1st - Christchurch
Sunday November 3rd - Wellington
Tuesday November 5th - Nelson
Friday November 8th - Napier
Sunday November 10th - Auckland

Squad
Eoin Morgan (Middlesex) captain
Jonny Bairstow (Yorkshire)
Tom Banton (Somerset)
Sam Billings (Kent)
Pat Brown (Worcestershire)
Sam Curran (Surrey)
Tom Curran (Surrey)
Joe Denly (Kent)
Lewis Gregory (Somerset)
Chris Jordan (Sussex)
Saqib Mahmood (Lancashire)
Dawid Malan (Middlesex)
Matt Parkinson (Lancashire)
Adil Rashid (Yorkshire)
James Vince (Hampshire)


Tests

Wednesday November 20th - Tauranga
Thursday November 28th - Hamilton

Squad
Joe Root (Yorkshire) captain
Jofra Archer (Sussex)
Stuart Broad (Nottinghamshire)
Rory Burns (Surrey)
Jos Buttler (Lancashire)
Zak Crawley (Kent)
Sam Curran (Surrey)
Joe Denly (Kent)
Jack Leach (Somerset)
Saqib Mahmood (Lancashire)
Matthew Parkinson (Lancashire)
Ollie Pope (Surrey)
Dominic Sibley (Warwickshire)
Ben Stokes (Durham)
Chris Woakes (Warwickshire)



South Africa

Tests

Thursday 26th December - Centurion
Friday January 3rd - Cape Town
Thursday January 16th - Port Elizabeth
Friday January 24th - Johannesburg

Squad
Ill


ODI
Tuesday 4th February - Cape Town
Friday 7th February - Durban
Sunday 9th February - Johannesburg

Squad
Ill

T20 Internationals

Wednesday 12th February - East London
Friday 14th February - Durban
Sunday 16th February - Centurion


Sri Lanka

March 7th - Warm up 1, Katunayake (3 day)
March 12th - Warm up 2, Colombo (3 day)
March 19th - 1st Test, Galle
March 27th - 2nd Test, Colombo

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Tue 07 Jan 2020, 2:54 pm

Bonnie Tyler called and Ben, always Ben, answered

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Post by Gooseberry on Tue 07 Jan 2020, 2:55 pm

This is classic Stokes isnt it. How does he do it, hes not looked that great sometimes then right at death of a long arduous test match he produces genuine pace accuracy and movement ....he is a special player. maybe not the most consistent but capable of doing things others aren't 

Add in the runs and catches too, a real all round performance

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Post by Gooseberry on Tue 07 Jan 2020, 2:56 pm

4 runs and 3 wickets in 10 overs .....

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Post by Soul Requiem on Tue 07 Jan 2020, 2:56 pm

MOTM is going to be a tricky one.

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Post by alfie on Tue 07 Jan 2020, 2:58 pm

Sibley's hundred was an excellent performance.

But surely Ben will be MoTM ? He still has to take this last wicket...

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Post by Gooseberry on Tue 07 Jan 2020, 3:03 pm

6 catches, 119 runs, 2 wickets ....Sibleys century set this up for sure but Stokes has delivered in all 3 disciplines. The speed he scored at has paid dividends too allowing England to declare earlier than they would've done. 

Huge choices about who bowls now. I just dont think Bess is threatening enough against even weak batsmen.

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Post by Gooseberry on Tue 07 Jan 2020, 3:08 pm

.......

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Post by alfie on Tue 07 Jan 2020, 3:08 pm

Last wicket proving elusive...

Maybe Broad has another burst left ?
Not needed ...Stokes does the trick...wonderful performance thumbsup

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Post by Duty281 on Tue 07 Jan 2020, 3:08 pm

England win! Famous win. Great game.

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Post by Gooseberry on Tue 07 Jan 2020, 3:09 pm

And yes its out. 3 wickets. 

New Zealander of the year.

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Tue 07 Jan 2020, 3:09 pm

Sky adding the drama!

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Post by alfie on Tue 07 Jan 2020, 3:10 pm

Fine win ...they didn't panic when nothing was happening earlier. SA cracked first after some strong resistance. Lot of credit all round.

Series level and very much alive . Five Day Tests rule ?

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Post by Gooseberry on Tue 07 Jan 2020, 3:23 pm

Worth noting how much Englands catching has improved recently, not sure why but remember that period when they just dropped everything and didnt have a slip cordon at all. The number of catches, number by outfielders, and number by Stokes are all very unusually high.

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Post by sirfredperry on Tue 07 Jan 2020, 3:59 pm

Typical England. They lose a batsman and bowler and go into the match one down....and come out with a win.

I was not without hope, though. Remember SA lost a key opener too and, to be honest, their batting is almost as weak and inexperienced as England's.

Good effort by SA to last as long as they did. It's tough to bat it out for such a huge amount of time. I can recall England going close to saving matches and then failing at the last.

The Stokes blitz on the fourth morning, as has been said above, was crucial. I would have made him MOTM even without the three last wickets.


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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Tue 07 Jan 2020, 4:18 pm

Very good team performance, a real feeling that everybody contributed (even if Crawley maybe only gets so much by adding that desperate catch)

Anderson could be touch and go for the next test, leaving Archer a sure thing really as it’s gonna be Jimmy or Curran’s spot he takes.

Any chance Leach?

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Post by VTR on Tue 07 Jan 2020, 4:41 pm

Great stuff. Now who will actually be fit and standing for the next Test? This has been attritional stuff, all the fast bowlers on both sides must be suffering. Also anyone heard from that Protea guy who was trolling on here after day one? Seemed to disappear pretty quickly

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Post by Gooseberry on Tue 07 Jan 2020, 4:44 pm

There was a fair bit of talk on TMS of Jimmy being done for the next test but it's all guesswork on how bad his injury is, more based on him just not being up to the rigours of FIVE DAY test matches
Wood and Archer are back training apparently so should be fit.
Pretty sure Leach is goosed for the next one though, he was extremely sick and went home didn't he?

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Post by king_carlos on Tue 07 Jan 2020, 6:16 pm

I thought I saw Leach in the dressing room when Sibley scored his ton? So perhaps he's back out there.

Side strains are very painful, as in difficult to breathe kind of painful. I've had a side strain from cricket and broken rib in rugby (both due to abysmal technique so my own fault). Frankly the side strain was more debilitating. Given Jimmy stayed on the field I don't think it can be a bad side strain.

At 34-years old Philander get's rotated a lot more than he used to by Faf du Plessis. Given his age Jimmy will need to be used more sparingly. Whether that means rotating him throughout a series or bowling him more sparingly during tests (with 4 seamers it should be possible) remains to be seen. He's still our best bowler so I hope the England leadership find a way to get the most out of him.

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Post by Gooseberry on Tue 07 Jan 2020, 6:55 pm

Think the problem is Carlos that Archer also needs rotating, Curran isn't rusted that much by Root, Stokes is only any use when the ings extends 100 over ( they quoted an average somewhere in the low 20s ...way better than any other england player) and in small bursts, then Broad isn't really a 30 over bowler anymore either. Given Bess is about as threatening as ...well most England spinners ... even on day 5 when the pitch was giving him some help it leaves England with dilemmas.

In terms of the straight. They really will just have to see how bad it is. Remember he played and bowled on the bad calf....
And again it may not be the specific injury more that this just happens to much. He didn't bowl a heavy load of overs and still broke down. He gets hidden a bit in the field too.
But then when he is bowling he is Englands best weapon, and has shown hes still got it with some solid figures.

If Archer is fit who do they drop to retain Anderson...Broad or Curran? If its Curran you've got a tail again, not that should matter so much but the pundits seemed to think they wouldnt want that.

Whatever we may think the murmurs before Archer dropped out before this test were that anderson was dropable. Hes shown he cam still be a force with a ball and 5that he struggles to last a full test which kind if backs up both arguments.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 08 Jan 2020, 8:22 am

king_carlos wrote:I thought I saw Leach in the dressing room when Sibley scored his ton? So perhaps he's back out there.

Side strains are very painful, as in difficult to breathe kind of painful. I've had a side strain from cricket and broken rib in rugby (both due to abysmal technique so my own fault). Frankly the side strain was more debilitating. Given Jimmy stayed on the field I don't think it can be a bad side strain.

At 34-years old Philander get's rotated a lot more than he used to by Faf du Plessis. Given his age Jimmy will need to be used more sparingly. Whether that means rotating him throughout a series or bowling him more sparingly during tests (with 4 seamers it should be possible) remains to be seen. He's still our best bowler so I hope the England leadership find a way to get the most out of him.

Sounds like Anderson will be very doubtful for the next test, and maybe miss the rest of the tour. Would be a shame, but indicates we might need to manage him better in the future, and it's not like we don't have good seamers in reserve with Woakes/Wood both fit on this tour and of course Archer not playing this most recent test.
He might be most effectively used as a starter in home tests only, and taken as a rotational seamer on overseas tours in the future?

Leach is also around, and should be fully fit for the next test. That is an interesting selection dilemma for England, Bess did very well this past test but Leach is ultimately the better player.
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Post by guildfordbat on Wed 08 Jan 2020, 9:30 am

Gooseberry wrote:Worth noting how much Englands catching has improved recently, not sure why but remember that period when they just dropped everything and didnt have a slip cordon at all. The number of catches, number by outfielders, and number by Stokes are all very unusually high.

England's catching definitely merits special praise in this match. I just loved Crawley's take of Nortje. Not just his presence of mind but also that of Sibley and Bess standing so close either side of him to not panic and dive across which would most likely have caused the ball to go to ground.

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Post by Gooseberry on Wed 08 Jan 2020, 9:59 am

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:
king_carlos wrote:I thought I saw Leach in the dressing room when Sibley scored his ton? So perhaps he's back out there.

Side strains are very painful, as in difficult to breathe kind of painful. I've had a side strain from cricket and broken rib in rugby (both due to abysmal technique so my own fault). Frankly the side strain was more debilitating. Given Jimmy stayed on the field I don't think it can be a bad side strain.

At 34-years old Philander get's rotated a lot more than he used to by Faf du Plessis. Given his age Jimmy will need to be used more sparingly. Whether that means rotating him throughout a series or bowling him more sparingly during tests (with 4 seamers it should be possible) remains to be seen. He's still our best bowler so I hope the England leadership find a way to get the most out of him.

Sounds like Anderson will be very doubtful for the next test, and maybe miss the rest of the tour. Would be a shame, but indicates we might need to manage him better in the future


Like he sat out the last tour and bowled lightly in the warm ups, and was rotated during the tests and has t played white ball in years...I'm not sure how much more you can manage a players workload.
He barely bowled this summer too, and broke down during a test.

No seamer has ever bowled as close to as many balls in tests as Anderson has. There comes a point where you have to accept it's over for a player. I dont see the summer being any different(except that he will be another 6 months older) , theres still the same amount of effort required to get through a test, and you still need to be able to field.

Assume he will be in the squad for Sri Lanka, and if he can get through that unscathed there might be a case for him in the summer. I'd love it if he could keep going of course, hes Englands best bowler by a mile in the modern era and still the best they have.

Part of the worry is that no selector is going to want to make the call for him, and he hasn't shown any indication of wanting to retire himself. I'd expected the home Ashes to be the end, but maybe getting injured early left him feeling like he didn't want to end it that way. Hed almost certainly want to go out in a home test if he can, but can England keep picking a player who struggles to bowl 35 overs in a test?

To be fair both he and abroad went through periods a few years back when they looked done, but he is older now. If he were a top 7 batsman it would be easier to carry him ( as they do to some extent with Stokes ) but if you're looking to play Broad, Leach and Archer the batting depth becomes a question. Even more so in Sri Lanka trying to get 3 spin options in, if Mo's not playing it's almost impossible.

I'd hate to see it end this way but if hes not going to be 100 percent for the next test it could already have been the end for him.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 08 Jan 2020, 11:56 am

Gooseberry wrote:
Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:
king_carlos wrote:I thought I saw Leach in the dressing room when Sibley scored his ton? So perhaps he's back out there.

Side strains are very painful, as in difficult to breathe kind of painful. I've had a side strain from cricket and broken rib in rugby (both due to abysmal technique so my own fault). Frankly the side strain was more debilitating. Given Jimmy stayed on the field I don't think it can be a bad side strain.

At 34-years old Philander get's rotated a lot more than he used to by Faf du Plessis. Given his age Jimmy will need to be used more sparingly. Whether that means rotating him throughout a series or bowling him more sparingly during tests (with 4 seamers it should be possible) remains to be seen. He's still our best bowler so I hope the England leadership find a way to get the most out of him.

Sounds like Anderson will be very doubtful for the next test, and maybe miss the rest of the tour. Would be a shame, but indicates we might need to manage him better in the future


Like he sat out the last tour and bowled lightly in the warm ups, and was rotated during the tests and has t played white ball in years...I'm not sure how much more you can manage a players workload.
He barely bowled this summer too, and broke down during a test.

This just is purely not true - he played essentially every game for Lancashire, bowled the most overs in the early season by far for them in all formats (including playing white ball stuff). And that was really my point I probably didn't articulate well, the ECB should be saying to Lancs...how about he misses some first class stuff, definitely doesn't play white ball stuff, so we can have him for the summer. tests..

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Post by LondonTiger on Wed 08 Jan 2020, 12:38 pm

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/records/averages/batting_bowling_by_team.html?id=12759;team=1167;type=tournament

6 matches bowling 160 overs and taking 30 wickets before he tore his calf muscle.

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Post by LondonTiger on Wed 08 Jan 2020, 1:20 pm

What are people's thoughts for Sri Lanka?

For the test 11 the batting is looking largely settled with 2-6 likely to be as per the last test. With Burns out until April/May the main decision seems to be the second opener. Zak Crawley is the man in possession and has a chance of cementing his place. However there may be a case for picking a horses for courses option and selecting Jennings who has a good record in his 5 tests in India/Sri Lanka. Should that happen I would retain Crawley as the back up batter.

I would replace Bairstow in the squad and call up Foakes. The red ball form and temperament of the Yorkie, linked with Buttler's woes keeping to spinners means I would probably install the Surrey/Essex man as test keeper. Not sure selectors will make either decision.

Bowlers - for Tests I would go two spinners and two seamers in the test team. Personally I would give Anderson the tour off with instructions to get ready for one more summer and take Archer, Broad, Curran & Woakes. I would probably rotate these guys but most of teh bowling will be done by the spinners.

For spinners much depends on what they do with Ali. Leach surely goes if he can shake of his illness woes. Parkinson does not look ready so there may be a case for recalling Rashid. Bess goes if Ali does not. One advantage we have is the part time spinners in the top 6.

My team for first test:

Sobley
Jennings
Denly
Root
Stokes
Pope
Foakes
Curran
Bess
Archer
Leach

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Post by JDizzle on Wed 08 Jan 2020, 2:20 pm

What’s Rash’s shoulder like LT? If it is knackered, no point taking him. He was really struggling in the WC.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 08 Jan 2020, 2:38 pm

I think England really need Moeen's bowling in Sri Lanka - Leach should be nailed on providing his injury/illness luck turns round, but I really wouldn't be confident in Bess as a second spinner in a situation where he needs to be more than just a holding bowler.

Moeen averaged 24 with the ball last time in Sri Lanka, him and Leach really won that series for England with the control they bowled with along with the assistance from the surfaces of course.

Bess can then be the backup spinner...as I do think Root/Denly can combine and offer what a 3rd spinner would bring to the XI.

Jennings should be in based on his subcontinent record - no slight on Crawley, but for one series it is what should be done (and Jennings offers a lot at short leg too).

I have no real preference on the keeper situation - Foakes obviously a better gloveman, but Buttler offers more with the bat and played very well in Sri Lanka last time. A 50/50 call, both should be on tour though.

I think you have two seamer slots with differing players for each role - you have one pure pace slot which is between Archer/Wood and one control/new ball bowler with Curran/Broad/Anderson (if fit), and Stokes offers some reverse swing if they can find it.

Something like this;

Jennings
Sibley
Denly
Root
Stokes
Pope
Foakes/Buttler
Ali
Archer/Wood
Leach
Broad/Curran

(obviously order would change if Curran played instead of Broad)

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Post by Soul Requiem on Wed 08 Jan 2020, 3:10 pm

In spinning conditions Foakes is a must, it's essential that your keeper takes any slight chance created. For the same reason I'd take Jennings almost as a specialist close fielder with his batting in the conditions a bonus.

One of my favourite parts of the last Sri Lanka tour was a spell of bowling from Stokes where he bounced out Matthews and others on a dead pitch.

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Post by LondonTiger on Wed 08 Jan 2020, 4:04 pm

JDizzle wrote:What’s Rash’s shoulder like LT? If it is knackered, no point taking him. He was really struggling in the WC.

No-one really knows. Hopefully he has properly recuperated.

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Post by king_carlos on Wed 08 Jan 2020, 4:25 pm

Foakes is undoubtedly the best keeper but Buttler is a good player of spin which England direly need.

I'd love Parkinson to get a go in Sri Lanka but it seems unlikely with Bess leapfrogging him.

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Post by Duty281 on Wed 08 Jan 2020, 6:16 pm

Anderson out of the remaining two tests against South Africa.

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Post by Gooseberry on Wed 08 Jan 2020, 8:00 pm

Mo easily gets in the side for me as much as Ive hated on him at times ...but does he want it?

Leach if hes well too of course.

Really not sure about Rashid...hes not played any cricket at all since November, and I dont think any red ball at all since the last Sri Lanka tour which will be almost 18 months. It may come down to his shoulder but if there was any point in dragging Parkinson to NZ and SA then it was to be an option for Sri Lanka.

Bess has put himself in the mix by doing a job, and if Mo isnt available hes the next nearest thing to a player who allows them to balance the side.

I don't wholly disagree on Foakes over Buttler, but I doubt England will change again and wont want to take 3 keepers even if it makes sense ( and to be frank Bairstow has done nothing to justify a place since his rather odd recall but we know he will get one). And despite how well Foakes did with the bat in the chances he had I still fancy Buttler is considered a better option to help shore that up and give them the option of playing a 3 and 3 attack again.

Archer and Broad are givens, as is Sam Curran. Woakes has almost been forgotten about, and if everyones fit could find himself on the shelf for a fit Wood.

Anderson being out of the next two tests really does beg huge questions about his future. If England have faith he can last a 5 day test he will go, but really as I argued earlier I'm not sure that will be the case anymore. That we have seen the last of him is a very real possibility.

I'm thinking:
Jennings, Sibley, Denly, Root, Stokes, Pope, Buttler, Mo/Bess, Archer, Leach, Anderson/Broad

If Rashid isnt fit Id think they would be more likely to go with just the two frontline spinners and use the part timers . Maybe if Mo is back and batting with confidence they'd be more inclined to drop a batsman...that would open up the choice between being harsh on Pope or putting Root back to three.

Squad wise 1 of Parkinson or Rashid, Bairstow or Foakes as the spare keeper/batsman


Crawley of course has a couple more opportunities to press a case in this series, but I think most of us would be very surprised to see him manage to do that. But if he manages a couple of big scores that answers the Jennings question. Sibley has already earned himself a long term place short of him getting 2 pairs. Im not sure how the Lions tour fits in around this either tbh.

Feels theres a lot more uncertainty than the last time they went there anyway, partly down to the injury issues. Burns definitely out, Mo Rashid and Anderson all big questions. Leaches health doesnt seem to be a given either. Bairstow not deserving of a spot but Foakes hasn't played cricket of any kind since September...will there be opportunities with the Lions for him to make a point? Im also assuming Archer will be fine, hes the spark that could give England something they lacked last time and make up for them potentially missing their experienced spinners.

Time for the selectors to earn their wage I guess.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 08 Jan 2020, 8:32 pm

Not a side strain but a broken rib for Anderson - didn’t see that happen, anybody think of when it would’ve happened? Seems random!
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Post by Gooseberry on Wed 08 Jan 2020, 8:41 pm

Apparently the third time its happened to him...once was boxing (another sport England need to ban from warm ups!) Reading the reports theres no mention of when it happened (must have been fielding?) , but apparently he wasnt ever planning to go to Sri Lanka where struggled there last time. So I guess that allows him to come back in county cricket at the start of the season and see if he is fit for the summer tests.

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Post by king_carlos on Wed 08 Jan 2020, 8:55 pm

Openers - Sibley, Jennings, Crawley
Batsman - Root, Denly, Pope
Keepers - Buttler, Foakes
All rounders - Stokes
Spinners - Leach, Moeen, Parkinson
Seamers - Broad, Archer, Curran, Woakes, Wood

That seems a fairly likely squad then by the sounds of things. Bess might replace Moeen if he doesn't want to return to tests yet.

With two spinners almost certain to play it may be viewed overkill to have 5 seamers. Perhaps Woakes to miss out given how vital he is to the ODI side nowadays.

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Post by Soul Requiem on Thu 09 Jan 2020, 8:27 am

I wouldn't bother with either Curran or Woakes in Sri Lanka, they won't pose any threat whatsoever.

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Post by alfie on Thu 09 Jan 2020, 10:59 am

Far too early to be picking a team for Sri Lanka.

Losing Anderson for the next two matches is a big blow. Stokes was rightfully praised for his efforts on the last day : but if not for Jimmy's earlier efforts - in both innings - England would not have won that match. Might even have lost it as that unexpected first innings lead for England seemed to change the entire mood of the game ...SA seemed to lose a lot of belief on day three.
I think the remaining games are still very much 50/50 . If England rarely put in two bad games in a row (they hardly ever lose successive matches) they are equally unaccustomed to playing well twice in succession. Toss may be important at Port Elizabeth and Root is surely due to lose one.
The Archer enthusiasts assuming their man will do wonders possibly haven't been watching his efforts with the Kookaburra in the previous three Tests. (Yes I know he took five wickets last match : but they were almost second innings junk time gifts - and came at huge cost) This is not to say he isn't a huge talent : I think he has the potential to be a highly successful Test bowler for England ...but he needs to channel his energy a lot better and produce the goods at the important moments in the match , not just when he is in the mood. At the moment you don't really know whether he's going to bowl a destructive spell or a load of short rubbish. Next week would be a good time for a strong consistent effort. (I assume he is fully fit and will come in for Jimmy : the question will be whether they will make any other changes with Wood and Woakes fit again ? Leach is apparently OK at last but really would you throw in a man who has been sick for weeks and played no cricket ? Bess won't wreck the innings but he showed enough control to suggest he can complement the seam attack quite adequately and surely deserves another go.

Wonder if SA will make any changes ? A lot of controversy around at the moment over the lack of black players in the team...could a defeat present a chance to make a gesture ? (no idea who they might bring in but there must be options ?) A couple of new players did well in this match - Malan , van der Dussen - but they really need the skipper to stand up. He's had a shocker so far.

I rate England the more likely winner purely because I think they have more match winners - even without Jimmy. But I don't think there is much in it at all.

Sri Lanka can wait.

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Post by king_carlos on Thu 09 Jan 2020, 11:19 am

Soul Requiem wrote:I wouldn't bother with either Curran or Woakes in Sri Lanka, they won't pose any threat whatsoever.

I'd largely agree to be honest. Interesting that Jimmy wasn't going to be taken if fit. Again I like that from the selectors. We have a large number of seamers so horses for courses makes sense.

The reason I think at least one of Curran or Woakes will travel is their all round ability though. Root clearly likes the long batting order. If Moeen makes himself available then that may change of course as he offers a dangerous number 8 in tests.

Moeen is a good player of spin so the Sri Lanka tour would work well for him to build confidence again. Particularly on slow pitches against weak seamers who wont target his weakness playing the short ball.

On the later point I think it's notable that England are building a batting line-up who won't shy away to the short ball. Burns and Sibley are solid back for players. Root, Denly, Stokes, Pope and Buttler all pull and hook. Arguably Denly and Buttler in particular will do so too much at times. Planning for the Ashes down under against Cummins, Pattinson, Starc and Hazlewood that ability will be vital.

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Post by Gooseberry on Thu 09 Jan 2020, 3:46 pm

Buttler got a demerit point for saying a rude word when philanderer got out. Perhaps a sign of just how much tensions were running up at that point.

Looking at the schedule theres white ball cricket here overlapping with the start of the lions tour, then the 4 day lions games then straight into Sri Lanka.

Crawley, Jennings and Sibley are all in the Lions 4 day squad ...so that means a lot of air miles for them this year as its likely all 3 go to Sri lanka.

Mo and Rashid arent, but should be playing white ball here. I guess that's the best opportunity to see if they are ready for tests...ko mentally and Rashid physically. Parkinson isn't doing the lions 4 dayers either which surprises me, but I guess he needs some time off. Vidri and Bess are which gives both an opportunity to prove a point.

For the next test here I expect England to stick with Bess and go unchanged.

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Post by guildfordbat on Thu 09 Jan 2020, 6:06 pm

Gooseberry wrote:Buttler got a demerit point for saying a rude word when philanderer got out. Perhaps a sign of just how much tensions were running up at that point.

Looking at the schedule theres white ball cricket here overlapping with the start of the lions tour, then the 4 day lions games then straight into Sri Lanka.

Crawley, Jennings and Sibley are all in the Lions 4 day squad ...so that means a lot of air miles for them this year as its likely all 3 go to Sri lanka.

Mo and Rashid arent, but should be playing white ball here. I guess that's the best opportunity to see if they are ready for tests...ko mentally and Rashid physically. Parkinson isn't doing the lions 4 dayers either which surprises me, but I guess he needs some time off. Vidri and Bess are which gives both an opportunity to prove a point.

For the next test here I expect England to stick with Bess and go unchanged.

Goose - I wouldn't be surprised if there's the odd tweak to the Lions squad. Sibley, in particular; he possibly seemed on the way out of the Test side when the Lions squad was announced but now looks to have cemented his place for the timebeing. Hard to see that he's in need of Lions cricket atm, particularly if he gets one more big score against South Africa.

Whilst a bit of speculation is always fun on these threads, I agree with Alfie that it's too soon to be naming a Test side for Sri Lanka. A fair bit of water to go under the bridge before then. Not least, form, injuries and illness could all play a part.

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Post by king_carlos on Thu 09 Jan 2020, 6:19 pm

I was watching when the Buttler-Philander 'conversation' happened. The ball got knocked to mid-off who throw it in to Buttler, Philander didn't move out the path of the ball so it made Buttler fielding the throw more difficult and Jos had a fair few words.

One of those rare occasions where stump mics pick that stuff up whilst the camera is on the player in question. It was surprising how long it took them to move away as well. The commentators went quiet when they realised what had been broadcast so the camera just hung on Buttler and Philander glaring at each other.

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Post by Gooseberry on Fri 10 Jan 2020, 10:36 am

Apparently it was only a knobhead he called him which is pretty mild, doesnt even get picked up by the word filer on here and is often used to describe players and posters.

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Post by Jetty on Sat 11 Jan 2020, 12:03 am

Gooseberry wrote:Apparently it was only a knobhead he called him which is pretty mild, doesnt even get picked up by the word filer on here and is often used to describe players and posters.

'Stump microphones picked up and broadcast Buttler calling Philander a "f***ing knobhead" after the bowler stood his ground rather than get out the way of a return throw from Joe Root at mid-off, before adding "get past that f***ing gut", an apparent reference to Philander's weight.

Buttler was fined 15 percent of his match fee and handed one demerit point, but would have been in line for a more severe sentence if the umpires had judged his conduct to have constituted "language of a personal, insulting, obscene and/or offensive nature" directed at Philander' Erm

Who did the ICC think Buttler was talking to?

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Post by Gooseberry on Sat 11 Jan 2020, 8:36 am

Puts a slightly different edge on things, guess his agent is doing the copy editing for the source I read! God knows what he would've said if it was Cottrell

Maybe they just felt it was fair comment?

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Post by Gooseberry on Sun 12 Jan 2020, 10:07 am

Roots sat out of training through illness again. If its a recurrence of the same bug that must be very worrying, but hopefully its just them being over cautious at the slightest hint of it to isolate him from spreading anything.

Woods not yet fully fit either, according to his interview he managed to bowl 35 overs in a week of nets but not yet test ready. Hes not in the 50 over squad so the only real chance of cricket he has is the T20s.

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Post by guildfordbat on Sun 12 Jan 2020, 11:21 am

Gooseberry wrote:Roots sat out of training through illness again. If its a recurrence of the same bug that must be very worrying, but hopefully its just them being over cautious at the slightest hint of it to isolate him from spreading anything.

Woods not yet fully fit either, according to his interview he managed to bowl 35 overs in a week of nets but not yet test ready. Hes not in the 50 over squad so the only real chance of cricket he has is the T20s.
 
I'm not a betting man but if Duty had got me any odds on that, I would have taken it. Smile

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Post by Jetty on Sun 12 Jan 2020, 12:58 pm

Gooseberry wrote:Apparently the third time its happened to him...once was boxing (another sport England need to ban from warm ups!) Reading the reports theres no mention of when it happened (must have been fielding?) , but apparently he wasnt ever planning to go to Sri Lanka where  struggled there last time. So I guess that allows him to come back in county cricket at the start of the season and see if he is fit for the summer tests.

Overton was the last one I can remember breaking a rib fielding, trying to stop a 4 on the boundary. At least Anderson wasn't hit by the SA bowlers. I always worry about that when he is at the crease. Another broken rib when hit by Siddle in the Ashes 2013.

Will be fit again but don't think he will go to Sri Lanka. His figures...
Tests & warm-up games in Sri Lanka, Strauss (c) 95.4-26-236-16 and Root (c) 53-9-142-2.

The six bowlers going are likely to be Broad, Woakes, Curran, Archer, Stokes, Wood although they probably need 5 at the most.
Away from home
Wood 26.92
Stokes 31.21
Broad 32.10
Curran 39.62
Archer 47.00
Woakes 54.86

Since the new contracts 1 Oct 2019 Curran is the leading wicket taker with 14. He always finds a way, over the wicket, round the wicket, bouncers, cutters, slower balls. I don't know any other 21 year old that is so good. MOM, Player of the Series v India, IPL hat-trick. Probably have to sit and watch his brother with the white ball.

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Post by Gooseberry on Sun 12 Jan 2020, 6:03 pm

Curran was barely used as a bowler in the two tests he played in Sti Lanka last time, so whilst he will almost certainly be in the squad I dont think anyone expects him or any other medium pacer to do what Anderson couldnt there. The raw pace of Wood and Archer has some chance of being effective, although it would be a huge surprise to see more than one make a side.

Talk is Archers net sessions were down on pace and hes even further back than Wood, so Woakes is a probable for the next test. Not the most inspiring or threatening of bowling attacks.

4 bowlers (5 if you count Mo) and a batsman down England will do well to get another result from the third test even if Root can get himself off the toilet.

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Post by alfie on Mon 13 Jan 2020, 2:01 am

Gooseberry wrote:Curran was barely used as a bowler in the two tests he played in Sti Lanka last time, so whilst he will almost certainly be in the squad I dont think anyone expects him or any other medium pacer to do what Anderson couldnt there. The raw pace of Wood and Archer has some chance of being effective, although it would be a huge surprise to see more than one make a side.

Talk is Archers net sessions were down on pace and hes even further back than Wood, so Woakes is a probable for the next test. Not the most inspiring or threatening of bowling attacks.

4 bowlers (5 if you count Mo) and a batsman down England will do well to get another result from the third test even if Root can get himself off the toilet.

Have I missed a bulletin ? I possibly would count Mo - if he were in the team/squad/country ...

Even so : Broad Woakes Stokes Curran Bess makes five , I think. Six with Denly.

Presuming Root not seriously ill why are they "down a batsman " ? In fact if it is Woakes not Archer they bat to ten (and number XI has a Test Century)

Certainly not over confident of another win as England rarely play well twice in a row ; but , unless there are more injuries we don't yet know about , the side doesn't look too knocked about...


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Post by Gooseberry on Mon 13 Jan 2020, 7:50 am

Burns is the missing batsman, Englands first choice opener. I did note its likely more of a precaution with Root than likely another illness crisis but still less than ideal prep.

And yes Mo is a squad outsider but I'm pretty sure England would have bought him at least as a call up ahead of bess had they had the choice. The point is anyway that they are looking at going into a test with only two "first choice" bowlers, and those not everyones automatic picks. I dont look at Englands possible bowling line up and think 20 wickets overseas. Plenty of batting down the order as you note, but that's a bonus rather thsn something that's key to winning. Woakes is well down their pecking order in tests now and has very little red ball cricket in the last year or games at all since the summer.
I'd also note that Buttler is showing signs of pressure keeping in all 3 formats and not having had a proper break. His batting form has slumped by his own admission, and he does admit his lost his rag in regard to the Philander incident which again is a sign of a player feeling stressed.

That said coming through and winning the way they did should have given the side a real boost, even if the reality is they made heavy weather of a gift wrapped position. That's where I'd point to a lack of cutting edge in the bowling, it took a miracle spell from Stokes to get through what's really a pretty weak SA lower order.

Honestly if England do go on to win the series, which I agree is still far from impossible, it says a lot about how much SA have slipped as much as anything. England have had a nightmare off the field and dis really well to force the result in the last test. SA are in a different kind of crisis and will be under even more pressure if they dont start winning again. The captain is under pressure for form, and the new players arent coming through quickly enough to fill the gaps. Add in pressure around transformation targets and the unholy mess that is their board. If they don't win this series against a depleted England who are pretty poor themselves there will be a full blown crisis.

Right now Aus and even more so India look light years ahead of these two sides to me. England have a bit of momentum but I do feel the toss ( and Roots decision making!) are pretty crucial for them without a real strike bowler or attacking spinner.

I'm more positive about the future and direction the teams going in though. The batting is starting to sort itself out. Curran is getting better. When they are fit they will have fast bowlers. Bess can improve and be more daring with his length when the match situation demands it. I just feel the amount of injuries and illnesses that have hit the side on this tour give them every right to struggle.

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