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England's Winter

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Post by Duty281 on Sun 05 Jan 2020, 2:14 pm

First topic message reminder :

As per LT's original post:
New Zealand

T20 Internationals

Friday November 1st - Christchurch
Sunday November 3rd - Wellington
Tuesday November 5th - Nelson
Friday November 8th - Napier
Sunday November 10th - Auckland

Squad
Eoin Morgan (Middlesex) captain
Jonny Bairstow (Yorkshire)
Tom Banton (Somerset)
Sam Billings (Kent)
Pat Brown (Worcestershire)
Sam Curran (Surrey)
Tom Curran (Surrey)
Joe Denly (Kent)
Lewis Gregory (Somerset)
Chris Jordan (Sussex)
Saqib Mahmood (Lancashire)
Dawid Malan (Middlesex)
Matt Parkinson (Lancashire)
Adil Rashid (Yorkshire)
James Vince (Hampshire)


Tests

Wednesday November 20th - Tauranga
Thursday November 28th - Hamilton

Squad
Joe Root (Yorkshire) captain
Jofra Archer (Sussex)
Stuart Broad (Nottinghamshire)
Rory Burns (Surrey)
Jos Buttler (Lancashire)
Zak Crawley (Kent)
Sam Curran (Surrey)
Joe Denly (Kent)
Jack Leach (Somerset)
Saqib Mahmood (Lancashire)
Matthew Parkinson (Lancashire)
Ollie Pope (Surrey)
Dominic Sibley (Warwickshire)
Ben Stokes (Durham)
Chris Woakes (Warwickshire)



South Africa

Tests

Thursday 26th December - Centurion
Friday January 3rd - Cape Town
Thursday January 16th - Port Elizabeth
Friday January 24th - Johannesburg

Squad
Ill


ODI
Tuesday 4th February - Cape Town
Friday 7th February - Durban
Sunday 9th February - Johannesburg

Squad
Ill

T20 Internationals

Wednesday 12th February - East London
Friday 14th February - Durban
Sunday 16th February - Centurion


Sri Lanka

March 7th - Warm up 1, Katunayake (3 day)
March 12th - Warm up 2, Colombo (3 day)
March 19th - 1st Test, Galle
March 27th - 2nd Test, Colombo

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Tue 28 Jan 2020, 7:52 pm

From what I’ve read online they’re considering Bairstow as a specialist batsman only for Sri Lanka, and Foakes is expected to tour

All speculation at this stage anyways - as we well know, injuries are likely...
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Post by guildfordbat on Tue 28 Jan 2020, 11:03 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:From what I’ve read online they’re considering Bairstow as a specialist batsman only for Sri Lanka, and Foakes is expected to tour

All speculation at this stage anyways - as we well know, injuries are likely...

Hi Olly - in case you didn't see it or know, that was also Alec Stewart's suggestion on Sky yesterday.

Btw, very clear that Stewie is a massive fan of Moeen.

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Wed 29 Jan 2020, 1:54 am

To drop Denly, not go back to Jennings, but go back to Bairstow.

How quickly is Bairstow meant to have done this "reset" they asked for? It's barely even fair on him.

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Post by Gooseberry on Wed 29 Jan 2020, 7:53 am

Its surely the perfect time to rest Buttler too. Foakes as a specialist for the Sri Lanka tour makes sense. Buttlers said himself hes getting scrambled and the worst case would be him getting burnt out in all formats.

It would be really odd to take Foakes Bairstow and Buttler and no specialist bat reserve.

Perhaps the most worrying for me is that a large chunk of the squad would stand to have "earned" their places without doing anything with a red ball. Bairstows played two warm ups since the Ashes and passed 50 once in the last year. Foakes hasnt played anything since September and had a poor county season with the bat. Mo hasnt looked at a red ball since the first Ashes game when he was dropped AGAIN and the attitude hes shown in interviews doesnt suggest hes figured out what mental resilience is yet. Rash hasnt played red ball since last January and not taken a wicket since November 2018, hasnt even played 50 ball since the world cup when he needed pain killers to bowl 10 overs....is he fit to bowl 50 over 4 5 days? Buttler has been playing but struggling with the bat and pretty average with the gloves. Leach (if he is well enough) did bowl in 3 games for England this winter...and took 3 wickets at 102 a piece, since which he hasnt even been training.

Thats a lot of faith in reputation and hope they can play their way into form in two 3 day warm ups. I don't have a massive issue with dropping Denly, but it would be nice to think its because someone had demanded a place through playing cricket rather than sulking round the dressing room and writing passive aggressive pieces in the press.

Meanwhile Sri Lanka are making mincemeat of Zimbabwes bowling again. Not sure if that has any meaning but at least they will have played some red ball cricket. But fortunately for England they ares till absolutely awful and nothing like the teams in their glory era c. 2000 to 2015.

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Post by alfie on Wed 29 Jan 2020, 8:03 am

Are we not talking - at this stage - about a squad rather than an XI ?

Makes sense I think to have Foakes ( if they are happy to not worry about his poor year with Surrey) as likely first choice keeper ; and Bairstow as able to cover either batting (he made a century at three last Sri Lanka trip) or the keeping spot.
Can't see any reason to take Buttler : while he is a decent enough keeper to the pace men , he really has never impressed standing up to spinners (still yet to execute a stumping in twenty-plus Tests for England : Bairstow has 13 from 48) His recent batting form is diabolical and since he apparently cannot bat higher than six I do fear that if he were to tour the temptation might be to shove Pope up the order to manufacture a spot... Do we want that ?

Anyway a while to go yet before they pick a squad. White ball and Lions team games coming up too so doubt anything is settled yet...

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Post by Soul Requiem on Wed 29 Jan 2020, 8:05 am

Gooseberry wrote:
Meanwhile Sri Lanka are making mincemeat of Zimbabwes bowling again. Not sure if that has any meaning but at least they will have played some red ball cricket. But fortunately for England they ares till absolutely awful and nothing like the teams in their glory era c. 2000 to 2015.  

So minus Sanga and Jayawardene with spin bowlers who get pulled up for chucking unlike a certain off spinner.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 29 Jan 2020, 8:15 am

alfie wrote:Are we not talking - at this stage - about a squad rather than an XI ?

Makes sense I think to have Foakes ( if they are happy to not worry about his poor year with Surrey) as likely first choice keeper ; and Bairstow as able to cover either batting (he made a century at three last Sri Lanka trip) or the keeping spot.
Can't see any reason to take Buttler : while he is a decent enough keeper to the pace men , he really has never impressed standing up to spinners (still yet to execute a stumping in twenty-plus Tests for England : Bairstow has 13 from 48) His recent batting form is diabolical and since he apparently cannot bat higher than six I do fear that if he were to tour the temptation might be to shove Pope up the order to manufacture a spot... Do we want that ?

Anyway a while to go yet before they pick a squad. White ball and Lions team games coming up too so doubt anything is settled yet...

To be fair to Buttler, if we're going to highlight Jennings/Bairstow's successes in Sri Lanka with the bat last time, Buttler was their second highest run scorer (behind Foakes) on the tour last time and is a very good player of spin. And he hasn't done anything wrong with the gloves since his return to the side (not dropped a catch, according to cricviz). Whether he plays or not is a different question, but he should at least go as backup keeper/lower order bat.

Should also be noted they are expected to take Jennings on tour too as reserve opener/top order bat - but they want to give Crawley/Sibley first dibs on playing, with eyes on this giving them experience ahead of upcoming future tours to India.
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Post by alfie on Wed 29 Jan 2020, 8:19 am

I must admit also to some bemusement at all the talk around Moeen...

As goose points out Mo hasn't played (proper cricket) Smile for ages , and was dropped for awful form after which he basically said give me a rest I'm mentally not right : how is this any sort of a case for rushing him back into the team ?

I am a bit of a Moeen fan so I would love to see him back - but surely this could only happen (a) if he is in a very different state of mind ...and (b) after some serious - preferably red ball - cricket. And a show of form. Not sure this is yet apparent ?

Bess , Leach if his health is fixed : should they not be first choices ? And is Parkinson to be ignored after toting bags around the Southern Hemisphere for months or might he be considered ? Just asking...

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Post by alfie on Wed 29 Jan 2020, 8:37 am

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:
alfie wrote:Are we not talking - at this stage - about a squad rather than an XI ?

Makes sense I think to have Foakes ( if they are happy to not worry about his poor year with Surrey) as likely first choice keeper ; and Bairstow as able to cover either batting (he made a century at three last Sri Lanka trip) or the keeping spot.
Can't see any reason to take Buttler : while he is a decent enough keeper to the pace men , he really has never impressed standing up to spinners (still yet to execute a stumping in twenty-plus Tests for England : Bairstow has 13 from 48) His recent batting form is diabolical and since he apparently cannot bat higher than six I do fear that if he were to tour the temptation might be to shove Pope up the order to manufacture a spot... Do we want that ?

Anyway a while to go yet before they pick a squad. White ball and Lions team games coming up too so doubt anything is settled yet...

To be fair to Buttler, if we're going to highlight Jennings/Bairstow's successes in Sri Lanka with the bat last time, Buttler was their second highest run scorer (behind Foakes) on the tour last time and is a very good player of spin. And he hasn't done anything wrong with the gloves since his return to the side (not dropped a catch, according to cricviz). Whether he plays or not is a different question, but he should at least go as backup keeper/lower order bat.

Should also be noted they are expected to take Jennings on tour too as reserve opener/top order bat - but they want to give Crawley/Sibley first dibs on playing, with eyes on this giving them experience ahead of upcoming future tours to India.

Yes I appreciate Buttler did well in Sri Lanka last time. But he was not keeping wicket then (abundant evidence shows that his batting is much worse when he does) - and my point remains that his keeping to spinners is ordinary at best. Sure you could take him as a "spare" bat , depending how many spares you need for two games ...but again he only really covers the number six spot so why would you bother ? Bairstow was discarded after an Ashes series in which he averaged 23 despite doing nothing much wrong behind the stumps (and being again asked to bat up the order to allow Jos to go in at seven ) Buttler has just had a rather worse series in SA ...do the same standards apply ?

Personally I thought Buttler could have developed into a handy number six - round about the time of that last Sri Lanka tour. But management have this silly idea that he can play a "magic" role at seven (despite no real evidence to support this) and keep messing the order around to set this up. Now we have Pope doing brilliantly at six so that option is - or should be - closed for now. And his batting has basically fallen off a cliff since the World Cup. I can't honestly see a case for picking him at the moment.

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Post by Gooseberry on Wed 29 Jan 2020, 9:09 am

Alfie,

I think England would ideally like 3 spinners in the side again, but realistically can only balance that if ones Mo (if we ignore his "recent" batting record in tests). Having recapped a few articles from the last couple of months it does seem theres a lot of confusion regarding him. Two weeks ago he was "expected to sit out" Sri Lanka, but had been given a role mentoring the Lions.
That sounds smart all round, hey Mo we still value and respect you. And to be fair he did take 18 wickets on the last tour there.
Not long after that hes "playing some white ball stuff in SA and will probably make a decision there". More recently we are hearing England are buying him roses and trying to woo him back (presumably so they can drop him AGAIN for the summer). It sounds like they are trying to put him in the right frame of mind rather than waiting for him to come begging.

Parkinson...his stock depends on Rashid really. As I noted above Im less than convinced hes earned a spot back in the side or indeed that it would be wise if England want to preserve him for the T20 world cup and beyond. He "only" took 12 wickets in Sri Lanka, the least effective of the three spinners. But Parkinson is another whos not exactly demanded inclusion, an excellent county season but 2/235 in 3 tour games this winter. The key for him is the Lions tour, if he gets to play much red ball; do they need two spinners in Aus?

Leach complicates things even more. I cant find any clarity on how well he is, but given hes never fully well it might be a big ask for him to travel. That also raises the value of leggies even more, the last thing England want is just right arm offies.

Bess is the only player nailed on but that could see England taking 4 spinners. It also requires one of Leach, Rash and Parkinson to pair with him regardless of whether Mo goes or not.

Fitting 3 spinners into the side gets extremely complicated unless they just go with Stokes plus 1 as the seam options. That would be very brave given the basket case that is their spin camp currently. But without a Jennings or Denly is pretty much a must have, and one of them ideally a leggie. Root bowled a bit last time but was very ineffective.

Last tour they bowled 102 overs of seam and wickets went at 38 a piece, 5 of the 8 falling to Stokes which pretty much makes him the most important player for England AGAIN and also raises the point that the medium pace county bowlers are useless there whether its Curran or Anderson (he and Broad took 1 for 155 between them). Test each for Wood and Archer alongside Stokes? The importance of getting the spinners right is glaring.

Rethinking Bairstow..he played a test at 3 out there last time and scored 110 and 15. I kinda get the logic a bit more, Jennings got a century too but was rubbish in the other two games. Apoplectic rage is reducing a bit over this, Im more concerned about sticking by Buttler when really its the perfect opportunity to rest him which has the short term benefit of a specialist for Sri Lanka and long term benefit of avoiding him burning out and not having to find a rest period elsewhere in the schedule.

Anyway all a bit speculative at this point as noted, but the complexities are interesting to delve into.

The T20s and ODIs in SA next up seem very low key even though this is now well into the build up phase for the world cup and first time we some of the 50 over heroes back in action since that final. The relevance for Mo and Rash cuts over to the Sri Lanka tour too.

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Post by Duty281 on Wed 29 Jan 2020, 12:11 pm

Far from making mincemeat of them, Sri Lanka are about to be bowled out for fewer than 300 against Zimbabwe, with some spinner called Sikandar Raza (FC bowling average in the high 30s) getting 7 wickets.

Sri Lanka on course to lose and to draw the series 1-1.

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Post by Gooseberry on Wed 29 Jan 2020, 1:10 pm

Duty281 wrote:Far from making mincemeat of them, Sri Lanka are about to be bowled out for fewer than 300 against Zimbabwe, with some spinner called Sikandar Raza (FC bowling average in the high 30s) getting 7 wickets.

Sri Lanka on course to lose and to draw the series 1-1.

Yeah went downhill very quickly after a good start! Sums up just how much theyve slipped as a team. Chamdimal and Mathews are decent test bats but that's it now.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 29 Jan 2020, 1:22 pm

Saqib Mahmood, Olly Stone and Craig Overton all given pace bowling development contracts.

Wonder if one of Mahmood or Stone might make the Sri Lanka tour, with Broad/Anderson likely being left at home?
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Post by LondonTiger on Wed 29 Jan 2020, 2:34 pm

While Mahmood has replaced Archer in the T20 squad for later this month.

Hopefully Archer can have his elbow properly sorted.

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Post by alfie on Wed 29 Jan 2020, 11:27 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Saqib Mahmood, Olly Stone and Craig Overton all given pace bowling development contracts.

Wonder if one of Mahmood or Stone might make the Sri Lanka tour, with Broad/Anderson likely being left at home?

Assuming Stone ever gets fit to actually play ...

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Post by Gooseberry on Thu 30 Jan 2020, 8:50 am

I see them more as an eye to the future than likely candidates for sri lanka. The point re Stones injury is pretty relevant, whilst we have two "first team" quicks they are never both fit together, so having a pool of four increases the chances of having two for the future winters. But right now neither Mahmood nor Stone would be in anyones first choice test side.
Overton equally as we have seen on this tour is pretty down the pecking order of county style bowler who can bat a bit. At best theres room for one in the Sri Lanka test side, and we keep hearing how they all think its useless bowling without pace or spin there. Curran and Woakes would be ahead of him, so whats the point in having a third there?
But longer term they are planning for life without Anderson and Broad home and away. Its very iffy if Anderson will ever be worth the risk for tests again. And whilst Broad is talking up his desire to go to the next Ashes that requires him to prove his bowling in Aus would be invaluable, his record there is pretty poor. The thought of being able to take 4 genuine quicks is quite exciting, and every other seamer we have can bat.
Infact looking at things England could end up with the most ridiculous low order batting imaginable. Stokes, Mo, Woakes, Curran, Bess, Overton, Wood, Archer can all be described as all rounders on some level. 6 bowlers can be an option if they really wanted to minimise the load of the quicks.

Anyway the only way I see one of the new three going to Sri Lanka is if Archers elbow is still dodgy/Wood gets injured in the white ball. (guess that means Stone and Mahmood for Sri Lanka Rolling Eyes )

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Post by alfie on Thu 30 Jan 2020, 9:21 am

No : six bowlers is never going to make sense . You need six , you're picking the wrong ones.
And calling Wood and Archer all rounders is rather stretching it ! In club cricket maybe. But in Tests Archer so far has been a walking wicket and I wouldn't get too carried away with Wood's frisky tail end hitting against a - by then - demoralized SA .

No idea which bowlers they'll take to Sri Lanka. Fitness is likely to e a big consideration and right now that is an issue for most of those mentioned. If the pitches are total bunsens Stokes could end up sharing the token new ball attack with one other before handing over to the spinners so he'd better stay fit...
(Actually don't think that is either desirable or probable : pitches may not be quite like last time , and anyway England may not have three viable spin options so it may end up three pace men , two spin + Root and maybe Denly). We will see.

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Post by Soul Requiem on Thu 30 Jan 2020, 9:31 am

Australia got by with four front line bowlers when they had Brett Lee so any more than five is just a waste.

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Post by KP_fan on Thu 30 Jan 2020, 10:20 am

Congratulations to England and their fans......while I was away they found a top-order batting line-up and now look like a really top side:OK:

Given that they always had bowling and exceptionally blessed with all-rounders.

I am looking forward to watching the new Off spinner Dom Bess closely at the next opportunity

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Post by Gooseberry on Thu 30 Jan 2020, 3:14 pm

How good that top order really is is only relative to how horrendous it's been for the past few years. You've still got a raw kid who's averaging in the mid twenties, and talk is Denly ( average 30) is being dropped for Sri Lanka.
So its positive steps forward rather than problem solved.
The real difference seems to have been the form of the middle order, perhaps given a better platform, but Root whilst still not making match winning scores is back making good contributions almost every innings, Stokes continued his run miracle innings, and Pope has looked like the best batsman England have debuted since Root.
The reinvention of Wood as a genuine quick coupled with Archer is probably the biggest shift for england who havent had a proper fast bowler in ages and now have two. I'd argue that every bit as much of a turning point for England looking at future overseas tours as the top order.

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Post by Duty281 on Fri 31 Jan 2020, 4:02 pm

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/51323821

England recover from 16/3 to beat an invitational side in an ODI warm up. Jason Roy got a ton, but most of the top order failed.

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Post by VTR on Fri 31 Jan 2020, 4:13 pm

Get him in the Test side!

Not a great performance by the sounds but did enough to get over the line. The much hyped Banton didn't get any runs, think he is almost certain to play the main ODIs anyway as the next potential freakish batting talent

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Post by Duty281 on Fri 31 Jan 2020, 7:13 pm

Yes, I hope Banton gets a good run in both the ODI and T20 sides as he’s an unbelievable talent.

One more warm up tomorrow - against South Africa A - and then the three game ODI series starts on Tuesday.


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Post by Gooseberry on Sat 01 Feb 2020, 7:41 am

VTR wrote:Get him in the Test side!

Not a great performance by the sounds but did enough to get over the line. The much hyped Banton didn't get any runs, think he is almost certain to play the main ODIs anyway as the next potential freakish batting talent


You joke about Roy when only the other day talk was Bairstows going to get his place back. At least Roy didn't get out for 4 against part timers.

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Post by Duty281 on Sat 01 Feb 2020, 4:00 pm

England lose to a different invitational side - not the A side as originally said - despite racking up 346/7 in 50 overs. Bairstow got a ton and Root and Denly made good scores; Parkinson picked up a few wickets again.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/scorecard/ECKO46041

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Post by VTR on Sat 01 Feb 2020, 7:25 pm

I was scratching my head as to how that was a defeat based on the scorecard. What actually happened is after 20 overs of the chase, England opted to defend under a "training scenario" of 85 off the final ten overs, which was chased down. So not a real match in any way

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Post by Gooseberry on Sat 01 Feb 2020, 7:56 pm

What really shocks me after this game is that noones disappeared up Bantons rectum after another stunning performance for England from the youngster Whistle

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Post by JDizzle on Sun 02 Feb 2020, 7:19 pm

Sam Hain with a ton for the Lions in their game. Averages over 62 (!) in List A cricket in 59 games - a decent sample size. Probably should be some more hype about those numbers! Suffers a bit as he can only bat three and Root isn’t going anyway anytime soon I guess, but he is consistently superb,

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Post by LondonTiger on Mon 03 Feb 2020, 10:57 am

Moeen decides he is ready to return to the test team Very Happy

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Post by Soul Requiem on Mon 03 Feb 2020, 11:11 am

JDizzle wrote:Sam Hain with a ton for the Lions in their game. Averages over 62 (!) in List A cricket in 59 games - a decent sample size. Probably should be some more hype about those numbers! Suffers a bit as he can only bat three and Root isn’t going anyway anytime soon I guess, but he is consistently superb,

Passing fifty 26 times in 57 innings is a quite remarkable record and his FC numbers aren't too shabby compared to others.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Mon 03 Feb 2020, 2:04 pm

There's quite a few white ball players (particularly bats) on the county circuit very unlucky to be playing during this era of England white ball cricket. If Hain was playing a decade ago he'd have been in the England ODI squad for years already!
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Post by Gooseberry on Mon 03 Feb 2020, 3:47 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:There's quite a few white ball players (particularly bats) on the county circuit very unlucky to be playing during this era of England white ball cricket. If Hain was playing a decade ago he'd have been in the England ODI squad for years already!

Nah he still would've been left out for Cook and Trott because statistics.

Right now the ODI side is being used as a blooding ground for potential T20 players too. The ICCs bizarre scheduling means theres two T20 world cups in the next two years, and the champions trophy appears to have now been ditched meaning its 2023 before the next major 50 over competition. I guess Bantons more of an out and out T20 player than Hain, so gets ahead of him in 50 over side despite Hains ridiculous stats.

When it comes to test places...Hains FC averages is 37 so whilst comparable to many whove played for England recently hardly demanding of a place. If he batted 3 there might be a conversation, but really hes just next in line for a white ball spot should England have an injury.

They really are blessed with a wealth of options for specialist bats. Bairstow, Roy, Morgan are all long term proven performers at the highest level. Malans had very limited opportunities but outshone them all in the few games hes played. Root would would get in most sides but finding himself surplus for T20. Banton is getting all the headlines but has yet to do anything in an England shirt to back that up, so probably finds himself out of a first choice side for the time being but will get opportunities to change that. Thats even before you get to Stokes and Buttler then almost all the bowlers being able to bat.

Livingstone also had an excellent BBL and scored big for the Lions, so the pressure really is there on the senior bats to stay switched on and pushing to improve. Phil Salt the forgotten man of England did pretty well too. And this all without Alex Hales who was second highest scorer in this years BBL averaging 40.

The best thing about being able to leave guys like Hain out is that it shows the future production line is there. Its only Morgan and Malan who are really too old to still be around for that next 50 overs world cup of the senior batsmen, and theres already many candidates who have the potential to improve the team long term 20 and 50 over.

Its gone beyond an embarrassment of riches, pity the same cant be said for test bats.

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Post by king_carlos on Mon 03 Feb 2020, 5:18 pm

I think that Banton might be getting lined up for Hales old position as a powerful 3 and opener back up to Roy and Bairstow.

Dawid Malan's T20i record is impressive reading as well. His domestic T20 stats aren't shabby reading either it must be said. He's another top 3 option along with Salt.

Buttler is also an outstanding T20 opener but due to the log jam there England are understandably using him in the 'finisher' role lower down.

Livingstone is bowling more leg spin these days as well. Adding that option won't hurt at all if he's challenging for Denly's place in the squad.

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Post by JDizzle on Mon 03 Feb 2020, 6:38 pm

http://cricviz.com/2019/10/cricviz-analysis-why-england-dont-have-any-sixes/

Interesting article from the end of last year about England's lack of a T20 finisher - basically if you are any good in the Blast, teams don't don't waste you by batting you down the order.

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Post by Gooseberry on Mon 03 Feb 2020, 7:46 pm

Good and bad...whgen looking at England you have to take account that they havent played a first choice team in the format since they got to final of the last world cup. Are we actually saying that Buttler isnt a good finisher in T20?
Stokes has only played 4 T20 internationals since 2016, and not any since oct 2018. With him in the side they dont have a bowler batting 6, they have Buttler. And they can easily field teams with players well capable of big hitting at 7-10 when they are prioritising the format.

Points about the "lack of quality" in the Blast only holds up compared to IPL (which has more genuine class but also plenty of place fillers) and BBL. How do we account for the West Indies being world champions despite all the structural issues with their domestic game and board?

If there is a lack of players happy to hit sixes from the first ball the 100 should clear that up, not as a finisher but as at all positions.

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Post by VTR on Mon 03 Feb 2020, 8:24 pm

I don't buy into that analysis at all. I'm pretty sure England can field a team which has international quality big hitters down to about number 8. They hardly play any T20 internationals and those that have been are experimental. England will start to plan properly for the T20 World Cup now so that will identify the options

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Post by alfie on Mon 03 Feb 2020, 11:26 pm

VTR wrote:I don't buy into that analysis at all. I'm pretty sure England can field a team which has international quality big hitters down to about number 8. They hardly play any T20 internationals and those that have been are experimental. England will start to plan properly for the T20 World Cup now so that will identify the options

Agree with this. Pretty sure it won't matter too much whether England have a "set" number six anyway : if , say , Jos Buttler bats at four or five and is still in at over eighteen (not too unlikely!) he is likely to make a right mess of whoever is bowling the death overs... And if he's out earlier he's probably already done some damage and can happily leave the end of innings bashing to one of several quite competent bowlers. Nice to have a regular "finisher" based in the middle of the order but surely as important or more that the top five score fast and large on a regular basis ? Think the article is using a lot of analysis to illustrate an issue that isn't necessarily going to cause a problem.

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Post by Duty281 on Mon 03 Feb 2020, 11:32 pm

Even though Stokes and Buttler are rested, I think the price of 5/2 on the world champions winning this ODI series 3-0 is an excellent one.

According to Cricinfo, this is England’s likely side tomorrow:

England (probable): 1 Jason Roy, 2 Jonny Bairstow (wk), 3 Joe Root, 4 Eoin Morgan, 5 Joe Denly/Tom Banton, 6 Moeen Ali, 7 Sam Curran, 8 Chris Woakes, 9 Tom Curran, 10 Chris Jordan, 11 Adil Rashid.

Hopefully Banton gets in over Denly. Very familiar top four. Returns for Moeen and Jordan.

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Post by Gooseberry on Tue 04 Feb 2020, 8:22 am

For an experimental side its not very experimental or developmental is it ...but looks like they are prioritising a winning start. Jordan playing shows that its being used as an extension of the T20 side rather than a 50 over squad.

Elsewhere Mos signaled his intent to push for a place in the Sri LAnka test squad. Which is good news, but he was pretty anonymous in the warm ups.

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Post by Duty281 on Tue 04 Feb 2020, 10:38 am

Parkinson in, not Rashid. Denly and Banton both in at the expense of Moeen. South Africa choosing to bowl first (somewhat surprised).

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Tue 04 Feb 2020, 10:38 am

England lose the toss and are bowling first

XI is - Roy, Bairstow, Root, Morgan, Denly, Banton, Curran S, Woakes, Curran T, Jordan, Parkinson
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Tue 04 Feb 2020, 10:40 am

From what the Sky guys are saying at the ground, sounds like there will be a lot of rotation through both this series and the T20 series for England
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Post by Gooseberry on Tue 04 Feb 2020, 10:48 am

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:England lose the toss and are bowling first

XI is - Roy, Bairstow, Root, Morgan, Denly, Banton, Curran S, Woakes, Curran T, Jordan, Parkinson

This is much more like I was expecting tbh. Bold side although Denly seems somewhat surplus as a player who's neither a first choice nor one likely to be in a final T20 world cup squad.

But yes lots of rotation through the series, theyve been quite clear these games are all being treated as low priority in terms of winning.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Tue 04 Feb 2020, 10:57 am

The one day side going back to navy trousers, thus ruining their brilliant kit from last summer, easily the worst decision this country has made in the past few months
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Post by Gooseberry on Tue 04 Feb 2020, 11:10 am

Horribly slow pitch ...Roys getting going now after a couple of overs feeling their way

England may wish theyd played two spinners

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Post by Duty281 on Tue 04 Feb 2020, 11:17 am

Slow pitch, but a quick outfield, deep batting order, and not the biggest boundaries. Time for England to pile up 320+ and win the game.

Roy dropped...oops.

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Post by guildfordbat on Tue 04 Feb 2020, 11:21 am

Duty281 wrote:Slow pitch, but a quick outfield, deep batting order, and not the biggest boundaries. Time for England to pile up 320+ and win the game.

Roy dropped...oops.

Poor cricket - he should have taken that. Not very clever to be dropping Roy when he's going nicely in the 4th over.

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Post by Gooseberry on Tue 04 Feb 2020, 11:28 am

Roys riding his luck a bit! Does seem to be the pace of the pitch making both batsmen mistime their strokes.

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Post by Duty281 on Tue 04 Feb 2020, 11:54 am

South Africa have two early wickets, but they automatically push mid on and mid off back when the second powerplay comes, thereby releasing the early pressure on Root and Morgan.

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Post by Gooseberry on Tue 04 Feb 2020, 11:58 am

Reminiscent of world cup games. Its much harder to score than it looks, and players give chances when they do go after the bowling. Very much cat and mouse stuff now, every run counts. Englands bowlers will have to have discipline cos its not going to be a big total to defend.

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