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England 6 Nations Thread

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Post by LondonTiger Thu 23 Jan 2020, 10:04 am

First topic message reminder :

Sunday 2nd February 15:00 - France (a)
BBC Sport

Referee: Nigel Owens (Wales)
Assistant 1: Andrew Brace (Ireland)
Assistant 2: Brendon Pickerill (New Zealand)
TMO: Brian MacNeice (Ireland)


Saturday 8th February 16:45 - Scotland (a)
BBC Sport

Referee: Pascal Gauzere (France)
Assistant 1: Mathieu Raynal (France)
Assistant 2: Federico Anselmi (Argentina)
TMO: James Leckie (Australia)


Sunday 23rd February 15:00 - Ireland (h)
ITV Sport

Referee: Jaco Peyper (South Africa)
Assistant 1: Romain Poite (France)
Assistant 2: Alexandre Ruiz (France)
TMO: Marius Jonker (South Africa)


Saturday 7th March 16:45 - Wales (h)
ITV Sport, S4C

Referee: Ben O’Keeffe (New Zealand)
Assistant 1: Romain Poite (France)
Assistant 2: Alexandre Ruiz (France)
TMO: Marius Jonker (South Africa)


Saturday 14th March 16:45 - Italy (a)
ITV Sport

Referee: Pascal Gauzere (France)
Assistant 1: Andrew Brace (Ireland)
Assistant 2: Alexandre Ruiz (France)
TMO: Brian MacNeice (Ireland)




Squad

Forwards
Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter Chiefs, 21 caps)
Tom Curry (Sale Sharks, 19 caps)
Tom Dunn (Bath Rugby, uncapped)
Ben Earl (Saracens, uncapped)
Charlie Ewels (Bath Rugby, 12 caps)
Ellis Genge (Leicester Tigers, 14 caps)
Jamie George (Saracens, 45 caps)
Ted Hill (Worcester Warriors, 1 cap)
Maro Itoje (Saracens, 34 caps)
George Kruis (Saracens, 41 caps)
Joe Launchbury (Wasps, 62 caps)
Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints, 81 caps)
Lewis Ludlam (Northampton Saints, 6 caps)
Joe Marler (Harlequins, 68 caps)
Alex Moon (Northampton Saints, uncapped)
Kyle Sinckler (Harlequins, 31 caps)
Will Stuart (Bath Rugby, uncapped)
Sam Underhill (Bath Rugby, 15 caps)
Mako Vunipola (Saracens, 58 caps)
Harry Williams (Exeter Chiefs, 18 caps)

Backs
Elliot Daly (Saracens, 39 caps)
Ollie Devoto (Exeter Chiefs, 1 cap)
Fraser Dingwall (Northampton Saints, uncapped)
Owen Farrell (Saracens, 79 caps)
George Ford (Leicester Tigers, 65 caps)
George Furbank (Northampton Saints, uncapped)
Willi Heinz (Gloucester Rugby, 9 caps)
Jonathan Joseph (Bath Rugby, 47 caps)
Jonny May (Leicester Tigers, 52 caps)
Ollie Thorley (Gloucester Rugby, uncapped)
Manu Tuilagi (Leicester Tigers, 40 caps)
Jacob Umaga (Wasps, uncapped)
Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby, 42 caps)
Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 95 caps)

Apprentice players
Alex Mitchell (Northampton Saints, uncapped)
Josh Hodge (Newcastle Falcons, uncapped)

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Post by GeordieFalcon Tue 11 Feb 2020, 9:05 am

How was the interview a car crash? i thought it was great.

Breaking News: Rugby World Shocker...Rugby Player drinks a beeer after a game...Snowflakes around the world in Outrage.

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Post by formerly known as Sam Tue 11 Feb 2020, 9:21 am

GeordieFalcon wrote:How was the interview a car crash? i thought it was great.

Breaking News: Rugby World Shocker...Rugby Player drinks a beeer after a game...Snowflakes around the world in Outrage.

And yet it's the middle aged generation that seem to have a problem with the Genge interview. Snowflake generation seem happy. Ellis put up some of the negative comments he'd received on Twitter, reaction was pretty funny, plenty backing him in response.

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Post by GeordieFalcon Tue 11 Feb 2020, 9:45 am

I just cant believe how much social media were going on about it.



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Post by Gooseberry Tue 11 Feb 2020, 9:50 am

GeordieFalcon wrote:I just cant believe how much social media were going on about it.



As opposed to on here where youre going on about people going on about it?

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Post by BamBam Tue 11 Feb 2020, 9:53 am

The fallow week in the 6N requires news to be manufactured, I expect there will be more nonsense coming out for all teams. Other than Russell's interview, I doubt there is anything particularly newsworthy happening across any team

On a separate note, does anyone know when we would expect to hear of any changes to the squad ahead of the next game?

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Post by GeordieFalcon Tue 11 Feb 2020, 9:58 am

Gooseberry wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:I just cant believe how much social media were going on about it.



As opposed to on here where youre going on about people going on about it?

i meant...that they were all so "disgusted or offended by it"

It was a nothing...move on next...

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Post by lostinwales Tue 11 Feb 2020, 10:00 am

Gooseberry wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:I just cant believe how much social media were going on about it.



As opposed to on here where youre going on about people going on about it?

Well its not like the match gave us much to talk about.

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Post by TightHEAD Tue 11 Feb 2020, 10:42 am

I see Wales online have openly called Ellis and idiot.

Nice!

Does this mean its war?
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Post by GeordieFalcon Tue 11 Feb 2020, 10:48 am

TightHEAD wrote:I see Wales online have openly called Ellis and idiot.

Nice!

Does this mean its war?

picard

Having said that...Jones now doesnt need to gee Genge up for the Wales game does he....just print out a copy of that and put it on the wall at his seat in the changing room.

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Post by lostinwales Tue 11 Feb 2020, 10:55 am

GeordieFalcon wrote:
TightHEAD wrote:I see Wales online have openly called Ellis and idiot.

Nice!

Does this mean its war?

picard

Having said that...Jones now doesnt need to gee Genge up for the Wales game does he....just print out a copy of that and put it on the wall at his seat in the changing room.

Despite being a shy and retiring type I never get the impression that Genge needs much external motivation.

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Post by GeordieFalcon Tue 11 Feb 2020, 11:12 am

No very true LIW...i dont get that impression either...

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Post by TightHEAD Tue 11 Feb 2020, 11:17 am

A west country sausage company have to sign Genge. Laugh
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Post by SecretFly Tue 11 Feb 2020, 11:20 am

Beer seems to be the official mascot for Six Nations 2020.

I await eagerly for the next reference....

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Post by lostinwales Tue 11 Feb 2020, 11:42 am

TightHEAD wrote:A west country sausage company have to sign Genge. Laugh

I am sure Marler used to carry, erm, 'cranial advertising' for a sausage company. Maybe its a LH thing

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Post by LondonTiger Tue 11 Feb 2020, 1:18 pm

TightHEAD wrote:I see Wales online have openly called Ellis and idiot.

Nice!

Does this mean its war?

Nice story, except not true.

First they ran this story where they quote a lot of people praising Ellis and one not:

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/ellis-genge-interview-england-rugby-17717329


Then there was this one where they mention Ellis is getting a lot of praise while balancing it with a quote from someone who calls him an idiot:

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/six-nations-winners-losers-wales-17715884


An no, it is not war - it is sport.

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Post by TightHEAD Tue 11 Feb 2020, 2:50 pm

LondonTiger wrote:
TightHEAD wrote:I see Wales online have openly called Ellis and idiot.

Nice!

Does this mean its war?

Nice story, except not true.

First they ran this story where they quote a lot of people praising Ellis and one not:

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/ellis-genge-interview-england-rugby-17717329


Then there was this one where they mention Ellis is getting a lot of praise while balancing it with a quote from someone who calls him an idiot:

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/six-nations-winners-losers-wales-17715884


An no, it is not war - it is sport.

On facebook wales online called him an idiot. Whistle

Their headline not mine and it was true.

they hate us, its war. boxing
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Post by Soul Requiem Tue 11 Feb 2020, 3:08 pm

"All he had to do was interview like a live human being and drink afterwards, idiot." Rolling Eyes

Quite clear that WOL did not agree with the comment.

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Post by Gooseberry Tue 11 Feb 2020, 3:25 pm

I think the take home from this is that WoL has pure clickbait headlines that often bare little relation to the actual content of the articles.

But given the amount of DRAMA kicked up by it you can see it works.

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Post by formerly known as Sam Tue 11 Feb 2020, 3:28 pm

TightHEAD wrote:A west country sausage company have to sign Genge. Laugh

There's plenty of butchers around Leicestershire I'm sure one could sort him a deal. Though I'm aware that the club sent him with Brendan O'Connor to a golf event on behalf of the club whilst they were injured. Might be an understatement to say some of the older folk raised an eyebrow at his antics. Promotional coverage to be carefully choreographed with no opportunity to media questions.

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Post by Gooseberry Tue 11 Feb 2020, 5:47 pm

formerly known as Sam wrote:

There's plenty of butchers around Leicestershire I'm sure one could sort him a deal.

Bit harsh on Youngs' passing

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Post by TightHEAD Wed 12 Feb 2020, 8:43 am

I've eaten sausages cooked on a BBQ with more attacking nous than Youngs. vomit

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Post by GeordieFalcon Wed 12 Feb 2020, 10:39 am

So whos the answer to Youngs though???

Everyones criticising...myself included but who is the asnwer...

We hardly have any Duponts or Faf de Klerks coming through do we!!!??

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Post by TightHEAD Wed 12 Feb 2020, 10:46 am

GeordieFalcon wrote:So whos the answer to Youngs though???

Everyones criticising...myself included but who is the asnwer...

We hardly have any Duponts or Faf de Klerks coming through do we!!!??

Maybe pick a fan from the crowd on match day, as long as they can pass a ball accurately over 10m without stepping or slowing it down it would be an improvement! Whistle
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Post by SecretFly Wed 12 Feb 2020, 10:49 am

Oh come on guys! Twelve big English clubs and still fretting about who replaces Youngs? Surely there is someone somewhere in that couple of hundred men that at least has enough promise to be tried.

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Post by GeordieFalcon Wed 12 Feb 2020, 11:00 am

Name them?

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Post by TightHEAD Wed 12 Feb 2020, 11:15 am

I personally still like Danny Care as a finisher.

Clever player and a bit unpredictable.


Last edited by TightHEAD on Wed 12 Feb 2020, 11:16 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Guest Wed 12 Feb 2020, 11:16 am

As far as I've seen at youth level the forward-dominated style of English rugby doesn't produce excellent scrum halves. The same is true in the Premiership. They're not given the freedom to boss games or express themselves in the same way they are in Wales. Ben Youngs is still the best English scrum half but looks like his confidence is shot. Has he had a break since stepping down from the Lions when his sister in law was diagnosed with terminal cancer (wonderful that she recovered)? I'm not sure he has. Some more sympathy for players might not go amiss. He is tasked with a leadership role when he perhaps isn't a natural leader and is therefore overthiking his game a bit. Robshaw, Haskell, Hartley. All gone. England have a leadership problem as Curry and Underhill aren't quite there yet (Underhill looks like FEC to me, not Itoje). Playing Youngs from the bench might help focus his mind on the basics again but not for too long you need him starting. Particularly with Farrell off form this England side lacks leaders. Youngs is one of those. It's a hard job.

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Post by lostinwales Wed 12 Feb 2020, 11:28 am

TightHEAD wrote:I personally still like Danny Care as a finisher.

Clever player and a bit unpredictable.

Had injury problems, also getting older and also prone to brain farts. He's not the future.

I do have fond memories of him at 9 dictating play with Farrell at 10.

I think we have to resign ourselves to Ben Youngs and his youthful sidekick Heinz for this 6N, unless there are injuries. But this tournament could well be the last in which they feature. There will have to be new blood for the summer tour and a good showing or two will change things.

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Post by GeordieFalcon Wed 12 Feb 2020, 11:38 am

i think the Summer tour will give us a big insight in to where is Jones is taking this team / squad

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Post by No 7&1/2 Wed 12 Feb 2020, 11:59 am

Robson and Spencer are the obvious ones. Then it's probably 12 to 18 months for the a few more to push their case. Care was dropped shortly after that NZ game where he acted like a headless chicken wasnt he?

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Post by lostinwales Wed 12 Feb 2020, 12:03 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Robson and Spencer are the obvious ones. Then it's probably 12 to 18 months for the a few more to push their case. Care was dropped shortly after that NZ game where he acted like a headless chicken wasnt he?

There is this thing about absence making the heart grow fonder. Care has been terrific in the past and it's all too easy to sit back and compare him at his best vs the current version of Youngs.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Wed 12 Feb 2020, 12:15 pm

True enough. Anyone next to youngs form looks good however.

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Post by Gooseberry Wed 12 Feb 2020, 12:19 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:i think the Summer tour will give us a big insight in to where is Jones is taking this team / squad

Exactly his hand will be forced there. Neither of the current two should be touring. The big question is will he send the extremely raw U20s scrum halves or the players hes never thought were quite good enough ( Robson and Sepncer) .

Or just pull another Heinz and find some random premiership journeyman noone had on their radar at all.

Regardless of how you view Heinz and Youngs in terms of quality there has to be at least one new scrum half bought through for 2021 season as a regular in the 23 because of their ages.

That none of the 20somethings even got in this extended training squad suggests it's far more likely to be one or two of the very young players stepping up out of the U20s for the summer and beyond.

Care is absolutely pointless, hes already 33 and has zero chance of being around for the next world cup.

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Post by WELL-PAST-IT Wed 12 Feb 2020, 12:27 pm

Gooseberry wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:i think the Summer tour will give us a big insight in to where is Jones is taking this team / squad

Exactly his hand will be forced there. Neither of the current two should be touring. The big question is will he send the extremely raw U20s scrum halves or the players hes never thought were quite good enough ( Robson and Sepncer) .

Or just pull another Heinz and find some random premiership journeyman noone had on their radar at all.

Regardless of how you view Heinz and Youngs in terms of quality there has to be at least one new scrum half bought through for 2021 season as a regular in the 23 because of their ages.

That none of the 20somethings even got in this extended training squad suggests it's far more likely to be one or two of the very young players stepping up out of the U20s for the summer and beyond.

Care is absolutely pointless, hes already 33 and has zero chance of being around for the next world cup.

Mitchell was in there as an apprentice and he should be playing first XV premiership rugby next season so we will see then if he will make it or not. He looked good in his one appearance against the Barbarians
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Post by GeordieFalcon Wed 12 Feb 2020, 12:57 pm

I think the progression of the England age grade players is interesting.

We have Kelemeti last years England U18 scrum half who looks fantastic...yet he's played...ONCE for us v Melrose. So he's unlikely to be in any thoughts.

i do blame Dean Richards for how slow he bring splayers through from the academy.



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Post by BigTrevsbigmac Wed 12 Feb 2020, 1:36 pm

25 man England training squad

Manu Tuilagi and Henry Slade have been named in a 25-man England training squad as they step up their rehabilitation from injury ahead of next weekend’s Six Nations clash with Ireland.

Forwards: Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter Chiefs), Tom Curry (Sale Sharks), Ben Earl (Saracens), Charlie Ewels (Bath Rugby), Ellis Genge (Leicester Tigers), Jamie George (Saracens), Maro Itoje (Saracens), George Kruis (Saracens), Joe Launchbury (Wasps), Lewis Ludlam (Northampton Saints), Joe Marler (Harlequins), Kyle Sinckler (Harlequins), Will Stuart (Bath Rugby), Sam Underhill (Bath Rugby), Mako Vunipola (Saracens)

Backs: Elliot Daly (Saracens), Ollie Devoto (Exeter Chiefs), Owen Farrell (Saracens), George Ford (Leicester Tigers), George Furbank (Northampton Saints), Willi Heinz (Gloucester Rugby), Jonathan Joseph (Bath Rugby), Jonny May (Leicester Tigers), Ollie Thorley (Gloucester Rugby), Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers)

Four players who were not part of the 23-man squad for the win in Scotland - Luke Cowan-Dickie, Charlie Ewels, Joe Marler and Ollie Thorley - have been recalled to the training squad.

Along with Lawes, the only other player who was involved in Edinburgh but will not be present in London this week is Bath hooker Tom Dunn.
Lawes rested & Cameron Redpath brought in for training purposes.

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Post by Rugby Fan Wed 12 Feb 2020, 1:38 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:...Care was dropped shortly after that NZ game where he acted like a headless chicken wasnt he?
He got a rare start against Japan after the NZ match, and England struggled to impose themselves, some of the blame for which, was evidently laid at his door.

However something else seems to have gone on too, There are hints he nagged Jones for more playing time, which Jones didn't care for. Nothing explicit has been said but Ashton and Monye on the BBC podcast seem to think he fell out of favour for reasons other than his performance on the field. The writing might have been on the wall when he was left at home for the South African tour. Jones claimed he was resting players but Robshaw, Haskell and Care didn't particularly need rests, while he took the Lions tourists, who probably could have done with a spell at home.

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Post by SecretFly Wed 12 Feb 2020, 1:47 pm

Rugby Fan wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:...Care was dropped shortly after that NZ game where he acted like a headless chicken wasnt he?
He got a rare start against Japan after the NZ match, and England struggled to impose themselves, some of the blame for which, was evidently laid at his door.

However something else seems to have gone on too, There are hints he nagged Jones for more playing time, which Jones didn't care for. Nothing explicit has been said but Ashton and Monye on the BBC podcast seem to think he fell out of favour for reasons other than his performance on the field. The writing might have been on the wall when he was left at home for the South African tour. Jones claimed he was resting players but Robshaw, Haskell and Care didn't particularly need rests, while he took the Lions tourists, who probably could have done with a spell at home.

Nobody is bigger than the boss, as Townsend might say.  And some of them find ways of proving it.

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Post by LondonTiger Wed 12 Feb 2020, 2:23 pm

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:25 man England training squad

Manu Tuilagi and Henry Slade have been named in a 25-man England training squad as they step up their rehabilitation from injury ahead of next weekend’s Six Nations clash with Ireland.


Just noting that Manu, Slade (and Redpath) are with the squad but not part of the 25.

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Post by GeordieFalcon Wed 12 Feb 2020, 2:43 pm

i wouldnt expect to see any of them playing v Ireland.

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Post by Gooseberry Wed 12 Feb 2020, 3:39 pm

Ok very confusingly worded...they havent been named on a 25 man squad. They are training alongside a 25 man squad.

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Post by BigTrevsbigmac Wed 12 Feb 2020, 3:45 pm

Gooseberry wrote:Ok very confusingly worded...they havent been named on a 25 man squad. They are training alongside a 25 man squad.

Yes it was confusingly worded. Looks like they are continuing their rehab alongside the training squad with an outside chance of playing pending full rehabilitation.

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Post by WELL-PAST-IT Wed 12 Feb 2020, 5:33 pm

Lawes rested! What does that mean?

Interestingly Cameron Redpath "training" with the squad.


Last edited by WELL-PAST-IT on Wed 12 Feb 2020, 5:38 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by BamBam Wed 12 Feb 2020, 5:36 pm

Think his fingers are tired from spouting Tory bollox on Twitter

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Post by Soul Requiem Wed 12 Feb 2020, 6:16 pm

BamBam wrote:Think his fingers are tired from spouting Tory bollox on Twitter

If it annoys you then long may it continue.

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Post by SecretFly Wed 12 Feb 2020, 6:28 pm

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:Lawes rested! What does that mean?

Oh Dear.  I hope he didn't overdo the beers.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Wed 12 Feb 2020, 6:50 pm

Lawes rested probably means jones thinks he now has better options available: or Proudfoot does. Probably nothing to do with being an idiot on twitter.

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Post by king_carlos Wed 12 Feb 2020, 6:55 pm

If Tom Dunn doesn't get capped after riding the bench for the entire Scotland game you'd have to feel for him. He's a strong player and deserves his shot in the squad with Tommy Taylor having been held back by injury and McGuigan not quite kicking on yet.

If George or Cowan-Dickie get rested in the summer I hope he tours and plays.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Wed 12 Feb 2020, 6:56 pm

Is redpath in there for learning systems or providing imitation of how ireland are going to play? Doesn't strike me as someone who would be pretending to be Aki!

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Post by king_carlos Wed 12 Feb 2020, 7:01 pm

Earl having a powerful debut and the line-out functioning solidly in awful conditions make me worry less about the pack going into the Ireland game. Against Stander, van der Flier and O'Mahoney I can see Earl getting his first start.

Mako concerned me against Scotland though. I thought he looked a long way from full fitness.

The backs worry me though. Both defensively coming up against Murray and Sextons kicking game. Also in attack up against a possible centre pairing of Aki and Henshaw. If I were Andy Farrell I'd definitely be sticking with that powerful partnership given England have lacked go forward in the last two games.

9.Youngs 10.Farrell 11.May 12.Devoto 13.Joseph 14.Watson/Thorley 15.Furbank

21.Heinz 22.Ford 23.Daly

I honestly think that would have a lot more balance if Manu and Slade aren't available.

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